Hello all,1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A quarter
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying this
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
2. How large should the loop be i.e. a diameter of about 20 cm seemscommon in those set-top AM aerials that come with stereo systems, but is
3. I understand loops are directional, how should they be oriented?To roll towards the transmitter, or to roll at ninety degrees to the transmitter? (I am just curious about this because obviously the
4. AM presumably could be used at higher frequencies, like FMbroadcasts are in the UK. Would there be any practical advantages to this?
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops? Any practical benefits over adipole other than size?
6. Ferrite rods: are they equivalent to magnifying lenses for light?
6(a). Could ferrite rod be used for FM to make a small aerial?
Thank you in advance for your patience in answering my questions. Itis an ongoing point of interest with me, a tedious layman, although I
Hello all,those wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to 1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating copper piping act as an aerial?Despite such things being earthed they often do work as an AM aerial.
2. How large should the loop be i.e. a diameter of about 20 cm seems common in those set-top AM aerials that come with stereo systems, but is there anything to be gained with a larger diameter loop?
3. I understand loops are directional, how should they be oriented? To roll towards the transmitter, or to roll at ninety degrees to the transmitter? (I am just curious about this because obviously the practical thing to do is just turn the loop forbest reception.)
4. AM presumably could be used at higher frequencies, like FM broadcasts are in the UK. Would there be any practical advantages to this?No.
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops?Get the aluminium to about 450C and apply gentle pressure around a
6. Ferrite rods: are they equivalent to magnifying lenses for light?I can't make that analogy work.
6(a). Could ferrite rod be used for FM to make a small aerial?Dunno
Thank you in advance for your patience in answering my questions. It is an ongoing point of interest with me, a tedious layman, although I struggle to understand bits and bobs at times (most times).
the frequencies used for FM is 88 to 108 MHz so around 1000 times higher
than for the MW bands.
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops? Any practical benefits over adipole other than size?
Yes they can. You often see this as a horizontal halo to recieve
stations from all directions but the gain is not as good as a vertical
dipole (Most FM stations use mixed polarity) Horizontal dipoles have
better gain than a halo but are obviously rather directional.
4. AM presumably could be used at higher frequencies, like FM broadcasts are in the UK. Would there be any practical advantages to this?
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops? Any practical benefits over a dipole other than size?
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a release of the Magic Smoke.
2. How large should the loop be i.e. a diameter of about 20 cm seems common in those set-top AM aerials that come with stereo systems, but is there anything to be gained with a larger diameter loop?
3. I understand loops are directional, how should they be oriented? To roll towards the transmitter, or to roll at ninety degrees to the transmitter? (I am just curious about this because obviously the practical thing to do is just turn the loop forbest reception.)
4. AM presumably could be used at higher frequencies, like FM broadcasts are in the UK. Would there be any practical advantages to this?
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops? Any practical benefits over a dipole other than size?
6. Ferrite rods: are they equivalent to magnifying lenses for light?
6(a). Could ferrite rod be used for FM to make a small aerial?
Thank you in advance for your patience in answering my questions. It is an ongoing point of interest with me, a tedious layman, although I struggle to understand bits and bobs at times (most times).
On Wed, 2 Feb 2022 08:05:56 -0800 (PST), David Pastethose wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
<pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to 1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at
best reception.)
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a release of the Magic Smoke.
2. How large should the loop be i.e. a diameter of about 20 cm seems common in those set-top AM aerials that come with stereo systems, but is there anything to be gained with a larger diameter loop?
3. I understand loops are directional, how should they be oriented? To roll towards the transmitter, or to roll at ninety degrees to the transmitter? (I am just curious about this because obviously the practical thing to do is just turn the loop for
4. AM presumably could be used at higher frequencies, like FM broadcasts are in the UK. Would there be any practical advantages to this?
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops? Any practical benefits over a dipole other than size?
6. Ferrite rods: are they equivalent to magnifying lenses for light?
6(a). Could ferrite rod be used for FM to make a small aerial?
Thank you in advance for your patience in answering my questions. It is an ongoing point of interest with me, a tedious layman, although I struggle to understand bits and bobs at times (most times).
How old is that radio? Surely it has an internal ferrite rod aerial
and you rotate the set to get best reception?
On 02/02/2022 16:05, David Paste wrote:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
Ah you're referring to MW (medium wave)
Before I answer the question of MW aerials, I didn't think there were that many MW stations left on MW? In any case there would be DAB or FM
equivalents or even an internet radio station equivalent. The audio
quality will be better than on MW
if you're talking about DRM (Digital Radio Mondiale) then thats on the SW Short wave bands
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heatingcopper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a release of the Magic Smoke.
2. How large should the loop be i.e. a diameter of about 20 cm seemscommon in those set-top AM aerials that come with stereo systems, but is there anything to be gained with a larger diameter loop?
3. I understand loops are directional, how should they be oriented?To roll towards the transmitter, or to roll at ninety degrees to the transmitter? (I am just curious about this because obviously the practical thing to do is just turn the loop for best reception.)
4. AM presumably could be used at higher frequencies, like FMbroadcasts are in the UK. Would there be any practical advantages to this?
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops? Any practical benefits over adipole other than size?
Yes they can. You often see this as a horizontal halo to recieve stations from all directions but the gain is not as good as a vertical dipole (Most
FM stations use mixed polarity) Horizontal dipoles have better gain than a halo but are obviously rather directional.
6. Ferrite rods: are they equivalent to magnifying lenses for light?
Not really, they alter the reactance of the coil and hence its inductance.
If my physics knowledge serves me right, an antenna based on a ferrite rod
is physically smaller than one designed in free air. On some older radios there was often a knob to physically rotate the ferrite antenna within the radio (to save you having to move the radio itself)
6(a). Could ferrite rod be used for FM to make a small aerial?
the frequencies used for FM is 88 to 108 MHz so around 1000 times higher
than for the MW bands. The FM aerials are around 75 cm long and can pbe pinned up on a house wall or put high up on a chimney stack if in a weak reception area.
Thank you in advance for your patience in answering my questions. Itis an ongoing point of interest with me, a tedious layman, although I struggle to understand bits and bobs at times (most times).
On 2 Feb 2022 at 16:05:56 GMT, "David Paste" <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
4. AM presumably could be used at higher frequencies, like FM broadcasts
are
in the UK. Would there be any practical advantages to this?
Airband uses 108MHz to 137Mhz with amplitude modulation. This is to
mitigate
the capture effect that occurs with FM, so two AM transmissions on the
same
frequency can still be heard. Safety first.
I have Wellbrook indoor loop (the one that looks like a blue hula-hoop). Specifications suggest it can be used for FM broadcast reception although I've
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops? Any practical benefits over a
dipole
other than size?
never tried it.
--
Is something brilliant happening?
6. Ferrite rods: are they equivalent to magnifying lenses for light?
Not really, they alter the reactance of the coil and hence its
inductance. If my physics knowledge serves me right, an antenna based
on a ferrite rod is physically smaller than one designed in free air.
On some older radios there was often a knob to physically rotate the
ferrite antenna within the radio (to save you having to move the radio itself)
Polarisation on the MW is not so important though, as it gets messed up by ionosphere reflection after dark when it goes further.
On 03/02/2022 08:34, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Polarisation on the MW is not so important though, as it gets messed up
by
ionosphere reflection after dark when it goes further.
Actually, I thought ground wave propagation, which is what is relied on within the primary service area, requires vertical polarisation.
Well if that is so, why is it that certain stations which use a horizontal aerial between two chimneys still go quiet if you stand a portable radio on its end so the ferrite is vertical?
Well if that is so, why is it that certain stations which use a horizontal aerial between two chimneys still go quiet if you stand a portable radio on its end so the ferrite is vertical?
Ferrite rods give most signal when they're at right angles to the
transmitter polarisation - I think.
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I >haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
In message <XnsAE35FBC3B84937B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 16:05Â 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I
haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials inside
the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an external
aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional, but unless the required station was exactly in one of the two broadside nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not that critical for normal
domestic use.
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I >haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Halos are electrically long, but loops are electrically short. Also
halos are not closed loops. I believe it is possible to have VHF
aerials wound on ferromagnetic cores, with electrically short pieces of
wire, but it is normally better to have electrically long aerials, where
the size is manageable.
In message <XnsAE35FBC3B84937B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours.
I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an
earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually
it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials
inside the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an
external aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional, but
unless the required station was exactly in one of the two broadside
nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not that critical
for normal domestic use.
Regarding using old radios and record players, I'm rather bemused
when someone brings one into The Repair Shop (on TV) for restoration.
So far I've never seen any repairer take the precaution of at least
doing a slow, controlled wind-up of the mains voltage to give the electrolytic capacitors a chance to reform, and to minimise the
chances of other catastrophic failures.
On 05.02.2022 02:32, Pamela wrote:
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire.
Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually
it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Hii Pamela,
you are probably aware, but just in case.
If the radio hasn't been properly restored there is a danger of
serious damage to components which are no longer available (mains and
output transformers) if switched on after a long period of storage.
Some coupling Capacitors are notorious for becoming leaky, leading to overstressed output valves and high currents causing damage to these components.
Sorry if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but I though it a
good idea to mention this to possibly prevent a much loved radio
being damaged.
It's new to me and Ian mentioned something about caapcitors. It's probably
5 years since I used the radio. What drill should I follow next time I use it?
On 10:27 5 Feb 2022, Eddie King said:
On 05.02.2022 02:32, Pamela wrote:
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire.
Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually
it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Hii Pamela,
you are probably aware, but just in case.
If the radio hasn't been properly restored there is a danger of
serious damage to components which are no longer available (mains and
output transformers) if switched on after a long period of storage.
Some coupling Capacitors are notorious for becoming leaky, leading to
overstressed output valves and high currents causing damage to these
components.
Sorry if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but I though it a
good idea to mention this to possibly prevent a much loved radio
being damaged.
It's new to me and Ian mentioned something about caapcitors. It's probably
5 years since I used the radio. What drill should I follow next time I use it?
On 08:48 5 Feb 2022, Ian Jackson said:
In message <XnsAE35FBC3B84937B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours.
I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a >>>loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an
earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's >>>almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually
it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials
inside the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an
external aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional, but
unless the required station was exactly in one of the two broadside
nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not that critical
for normal domestic use.
Regarding using old radios and record players, I'm rather bemused
when someone brings one into The Repair Shop (on TV) for restoration.
So far I've never seen any repairer take the precaution of at least
doing a slow, controlled wind-up of the mains voltage to give the
electrolytic capacitors a chance to reform, and to minimise the
chances of other catastrophic failures.
I haven't used the radio for about 5 years, when it worked fine. What >precautions should I follow to keep it going?
I've never heard of reforming capacitors. How do you do a "slow,
controlled wind-up of the mains voltage" or anything else that's needed? I >couldn't find any decent web pages offering advice.
I was given the radio second-hand by the local TV shop which was throwing
it out 50 years ago and it would be nice to keep it going.
All the components are original (I once changed the speaker cloth!) but I >don't have the stamina or equipment to get into a restoration project >swapping lots of new components for old. However if doing something pays >dividends then I would have to do it.
Regarding using old radios and record players, I'm rather bemused
when someone brings one into The Repair Shop (on TV) for restoration.
So far I've never seen any repairer take the precaution of at least
doing a slow, controlled wind-up of the mains voltage to give the
electrolytic capacitors a chance to reform, and to minimise the
chances of other catastrophic failures.
I haven't used the radio for about 5 years, when it worked fine. What >precautions should I follow to keep it going?
I've never heard of reforming capacitors. How do you do a "slow,
controlled wind-up of the mains voltage" or anything else that's needed? I >couldn't find any decent web pages offering advice.
How old is that radio? Surely it has an internal ferrite rod aerial
and you rotate the set to get best reception?
Before I answer the question of MW aerials, I didn't think there were
that many MW stations left on MW? In any case there would be DAB or FM equivalents or even an internet radio station equivalent. The audio
quality will be better than on MW
Yes they can. You often see this as a horizontal halo to recieve
stations from all directions but the gain is not as good as a vertical
dipole (Most FM stations use mixed polarity) Horizontal dipoles have
better gain than a halo but are obviously rather directional.
On 05/02/2022 12:17, Pamela wrote:
It's new to me and Ian mentioned something about caapcitors. It's probably >> 5 years since I used the radio. What drill should I follow next time I use >> it?
Large electrolytic capacitors can also make a mess if they fail, i.e. >explode!
Here's the one I built when I was a kid. Actually I built several.
Despite such things being earthed they often do work as an AM aerial.
When I was a teenage stop-go man (boy) I used to connect my tranny (shut
up)
to the steel rail of the bridge if I happened to be on one. This
brought in Radio Caroline.
5. Can FM aerials be made into loops?Get the aluminium to about 450C and apply gentle pressure around a
former. Keep the heat away from the plastic junction box.
3. I understand loops are directional, how should they be oriented? To
roll towards the transmitter, or to roll at ninety degrees to the transmitter? (I am just curious about this because obviously the practical thing to do is just turn the loop for best reception.)
To roll away from the transmitter, as the radiation pressure will tend
to push them in that direction :-).
If you are using it for communicating with aircraft, yes, because there
is no capture effect, so you can hear if a weaker station is trying to
use the same frequency and have some ability to work when another
aircraft has the microphone key stuck down.
A much easier solution: given that almost all VHF/FM transmissions are
now mixed polarisation, just put up a vertical dipole.
The ferrite rod can be viewed almost like a 'grip' that has taken hold of
of the radio broadcast's RF magnetic field over a large volume and pulled
it togther to pass along the rod, though the coil. I looks like this if you plot the external field lines.
The higher the mu value, the bigger the effect. Alas, this also tends to go with the response being 'slower'. So the effect tends not to work at much higher frequencies. Thus although you can use a ferrite rod at, say, 100
MHz, it's ability to 'pull in' signal power is much less than in the MW/LW bands. So not usually used above MW for domestic reception.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Anyway, we had a BT rotary dial-stop telephone back then, and I somehow
found connecting the aerial wire to the dial-stop made a massive
improvement to its pickup of broadcasts.
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Regarding using old radios and record players, I'm rather bemused when someone brings one into The Repair Shop (on TV) for restoration. So far
I've never seen any repairer take the precaution of at least doing a
slow, controlled wind-up of the mains voltage to give the electrolytic capacitors a chance to reform, and to minimise the chances of other catastrophic failures.
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials inside
the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an external
aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional, but unless the required station was exactly in one of the two broadside nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not that critical for normal
domestic use.
Not a valid analogy.
Wide angle lens in photography terms?
On 05/02/2022 08:48, Ian Jackson wrote:
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials inside
the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an external
aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional, but unless the
required station was exactly in one of the two broadside nulls, the
orientation of the radio was probably not that critical for normal
domestic use.
These little plastic frames wound with about six turns of thin wire are
still supplied with some tuners and audio units.
On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 13:07:24 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 05/02/2022 12:17, Pamela wrote:
It's new to me and Ian mentioned something about caapcitors. It's probably >>> 5 years since I used the radio. What drill should I follow next time I use >>> it?
Large electrolytic capacitors can also make a mess if they fail, i.e.
explode!
The liquid filled ones are the most fun, but they're pretty rare now,
and I don't really think you're supposed to connect them directly
across the mains...
Regarding using old radios and record players, I'm rather bemused when someone brings one into The Repair Shop (on TV) for restoration. So far
I've never seen any repairer take the precaution of at least doing a
slow, controlled wind-up of the mains voltage to give the electrolytic capacitors a chance to reform, and to minimise the chances of other catastrophic failures.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
It's quite modern it has FM :-) In the 1950s, I had a radio that an
uncle had bought during the war. I was given it when he emigrated to
Canada. My parents binned it when they emigrated to Australia. Such a
waste.
On 05/02/2022 01:32, Pamela wrote:
On 16:05Â 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I
haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have an old radiogram which has a 78s only deck so perhaps 1940s or
early 1950s. When I got it the radio motor-boated until I tapped each
valve and found that the rectifier being tapped sometimes brought the
radio into working order, and a replacement rectifier valve was all it needed.
I ran a wire from the aerial socket out of the window, and connected it
to the washing line that had a steel core and ran down the garden, and
the radio reception was excellent with that arrangement.
On 05/02/2022 16:07, David Paste wrote:
Wide angle lens in photography terms?
Not a valid analogy.
On 05/02/2022 16:35, Indy Jess John wrote:
On 05/02/2022 01:32, Pamela wrote:
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours.
I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's
kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have an old radiogram which has a 78s only deck so perhaps 1940s or
early 1950s. When I got it the radio motor-boated until I tapped each
valve and found that the rectifier being tapped sometimes brought the
radio into working order, and a replacement rectifier valve was all it needed.
What kind of pickup does it have: magnetic or crystal? I once had a 78
RPM record deck which had a heavy horseshoe magnet with a coil between
the pole pieces and a moving iron holding the (use once) needle. It
produced a big enough signal to feed a normal audio amplifier without a special pre-amp as modern magnetic pickups require. There was a strong
spring built into the pickup arm hinge to counter the weight of the
pickup.
I ran a wire from the aerial socket out of the window, and connected it
to the washing line that had a steel core and ran down the garden, and
the radio reception was excellent with that arrangement.
In my (buying old radios from jumble sales for 2/6) youth I found that a
wire dangling from the aerial socket and no earth was usually adequate.
On 05/02/2022 01:32, Pamela wrote:
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire.
Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually
it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have an old radiogram which has a 78s only deck so perhaps 1940s or
early 1950s. When I got it the radio motor-boated until I tapped each
valve and found that the rectifier being tapped sometimes brought the
radio into working order, and a replacement rectifier valve was all
it needed.
I ran a wire from the aerial socket out of the window, and connected
it to the washing line that had a steel core and ran down the garden,
and the radio reception was excellent with that arrangement.
Jim
On 05/02/2022 15:55, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 13:07:24 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 05/02/2022 12:17, Pamela wrote:
The liquid filled ones are the most fun, but they're pretty rareIt's new to me and Ian mentioned something about caapcitors. It's probably >>>> 5 years since I used the radio. What drill should I follow next time I use >>>> it?
Large electrolytic capacitors can also make a mess if they fail, i.e.
explode!
now,
and I don't really think you're supposed to connect them directly
across the mains...
If the smoothing ones in cans dry out you could just wire a (much
smaller) modern one across the terminals under the chassis.
I once had a 78
RPM record deck which had a heavy horseshoe magnet with a coil between
the pole pieces and a moving iron holding the (use once) needle.
On 16:35 5 Feb 2022, Indy Jess John said:
On 05/02/2022 01:32, Pamela wrote:
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire.
Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually
it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have an old radiogram which has a 78s only deck so perhaps 1940s or
early 1950s. When I got it the radio motor-boated until I tapped each
valve and found that the rectifier being tapped sometimes brought the
radio into working order, and a replacement rectifier valve was all
it needed.
I ran a wire from the aerial socket out of the window, and connected
it to the washing line that had a steel core and ran down the garden,
and the radio reception was excellent with that arrangement.
Jim
A radiogram is a big snazzy step upwards compared to a plain radio. Only
for the well off.
On 16:35 5 Feb 2022, Indy Jess John said:
On 05/02/2022 01:32, Pamela wrote:
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire.
Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually
it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have an old radiogram which has a 78s only deck so perhaps 1940s or
early 1950s. When I got it the radio motor-boated until I tapped each
valve and found that the rectifier being tapped sometimes brought the
radio into working order, and a replacement rectifier valve was all
it needed.
I ran a wire from the aerial socket out of the window, and connected
it to the washing line that had a steel core and ran down the garden,
and the radio reception was excellent with that arrangement.
Jim
A radiogram is a big snazzy step upwards compared to a plain radio. Only
for the well off.
A radiogram is a big snazzy step upwards compared to a plain radio. Only
for the well off.
On 05/02/2022 18:50, Pamela wrote:
On 16:35 5 Feb 2022, Indy Jess John said:With a bit of haggling having extracted the admission that it didn't
On 05/02/2022 01:32, Pamela wrote:
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz
to 1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central
heating copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from
just trying this in case there's something I am not aware of
which results in a release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire.
Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well.
It's almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy
and perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits.
Visitors think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but
actually it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have an old radiogram which has a 78s only deck so perhaps 1940s
or early 1950s. When I got it the radio motor-boated until I tapped
each valve and found that the rectifier being tapped sometimes
brought the radio into working order, and a replacement rectifier
valve was all it needed.
I ran a wire from the aerial socket out of the window, and
connected it to the washing line that had a steel core and ran down
the garden, and the radio reception was excellent with that
arrangement.
Jim
A radiogram is a big snazzy step upwards compared to a plain radio.
Only for the well off.
work properly, I got it surprisingly cheaply.
I also did a trade with someone else: a used but in good working
order rectifier valve in exchange for a silencer for a wartime
ex-army Douglas generator set which required exactly the same
silencer as the early fire pumps. That pump engine was subsequently
modified into the power unit for the Hillman Imp, and I had a spare
Imp silencer. :-)
Jim
In article <XnsAE35BFBB96C037B93@144.76.35.252>,
Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
On 16:35 5 Feb 2022, Indy Jess John said:
On 05/02/2022 01:32, Pamela wrote:
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz
to 1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in
the UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central
heating copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from
just trying this in case there's something I am not aware of
which results in a release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire.
Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well.
It's almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy
and perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits.
Visitors think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but
actually it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have an old radiogram which has a 78s only deck so perhaps 1940s
or early 1950s. When I got it the radio motor-boated until I
tapped each valve and found that the rectifier being tapped
sometimes brought the radio into working order, and a replacement
rectifier valve was all it needed.
I ran a wire from the aerial socket out of the window, and
connected it to the washing line that had a steel core and ran
down the garden, and the radio reception was excellent with that
arrangement.
Jim
A radiogram is a big snazzy step upwards compared to a plain radio.
Only for the well off.
Oh no. Just after hire purchase came in, I was in an e3ectrical shop
in Edinburgh and I overheard a mother and daughter. "Look at that
radiogram, it's only a pound deposit - we could give it and the
payment book to Dad for Christmas."
Oh no. Just after hire purchase came in, I was in an e3ectrical shop
in Edinburgh and I overheard a mother and daughter. "Look at that
radiogram, it's only a pound deposit - we could give it and the
payment book to Dad for Christmas."
So brilliant!
A friend used to run a car dealership and customers who were buying on
credit finance would only ask what the monthly payments were and for
how long but never ask about the total cost.
On 20:38 5 Feb 2022, Indy Jess John said:
On 05/02/2022 18:50, Pamela wrote:
On 16:35 5 Feb 2022, Indy Jess John said:With a bit of haggling having extracted the admission that it didn't
On 05/02/2022 01:32, Pamela wrote:
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz
to 1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central
heating copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from
just trying this in case there's something I am not aware of
which results in a release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire.
Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well.
It's almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy
and perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits.
Visitors think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but
actually it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
I have an old radiogram which has a 78s only deck so perhaps 1940s
or early 1950s. When I got it the radio motor-boated until I tapped
each valve and found that the rectifier being tapped sometimes
brought the radio into working order, and a replacement rectifier
valve was all it needed.
I ran a wire from the aerial socket out of the window, and
connected it to the washing line that had a steel core and ran down
the garden, and the radio reception was excellent with that
arrangement.
Jim
A radiogram is a big snazzy step upwards compared to a plain radio.
Only for the well off.
work properly, I got it surprisingly cheaply.
I also did a trade with someone else: a used but in good working
order rectifier valve in exchange for a silencer for a wartime
ex-army Douglas generator set which required exactly the same
silencer as the early fire pumps. That pump engine was subsequently
modified into the power unit for the Hillman Imp, and I had a spare
Imp silencer. :-)
Jim
That's starting to sound like one of those competitions where someone
starts with a pencil and aims to keep trading it until they have a
house!
In message <XnsAE357F6DD7A7A37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 08:48 5 Feb 2022, Ian Jackson said:
In message <XnsAE35FBC3B84937B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522
kHz to 1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres
to 184 metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically
polarised in the UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit
unwieldy at those wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central
heating copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from
just trying this in case there's something I am not aware of
which results in a release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well.
It's almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as
glossy and perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to
bits. Visitors think it's some broken old radio kept as an
ornament but actually it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials
inside the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an external aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional,
but unless the required station was exactly in one of the two
broadside nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not
that critical for normal domestic use.
Regarding using old radios and record players, I'm rather bemused
when someone brings one into The Repair Shop (on TV) for
restoration. So far I've never seen any repairer take the
precaution of at least doing a slow, controlled wind-up of the
mains voltage to give the electrolytic capacitors a chance to
reform, and to minimise the chances of other catastrophic
failures.
I haven't used the radio for about 5 years, when it worked fine.
What precautions should I follow to keep it going?
I've never heard of reforming capacitors. How do you do a "slow, controlled wind-up of the mains voltage" or anything else that's
needed? I couldn't find any decent web pages offering advice.
Start here:
https://tinyurl.com/2p8kdad6
I was given the radio second-hand by the local TV shop which was
throwing it out 50 years ago and it would be nice to keep it going.
All the components are original (I once changed the speaker cloth!)
but I don't have the stamina or equipment to get into a restoration
project swapping lots of new components for old. However if doing something pays dividends then I would have to do it.
Old electronic components are prone to changing their values over
time. Capacitors generally go leaky. The leaky high-voltage
electrolytics can short out the HT supply (often around 200V or
more), and something's going to go bang or burn out (could be
something irreplaceable, like the mains transformer). Although
usually not electrolytic, leaky coupling capacitors (between anode
and grid) will cause a valve to take excessive current.
Ideally you should check all potentially faulty components before
applying the normal mains, but the minimum work might be at least to gradually wind up the supply voltage. If you don't have the
facilities, try inserting a filament mains light bulb in series with
the mains (maybe starting with a low wattage one (which will have the
highest resistance), and then progressing to higher wattages.
Of course, if there's a valve rectifier (and not solid-state), leaky
HT electrolytics won't get any voltage across them until there's
sufficient mains voltage to get the rectifier heaters glowing - so
it's all a bit of a compromise.
With any old electronic equipment that's working, it's probably a
good idea to power it up every so often to help stop the capacitors
going leaky.
On 05/02/2022 08:48, Ian Jackson wrote:
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials
inside the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an external aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional,
but unless the required station was exactly in one of the two
broadside nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not
that critical for normal domestic use.
These little plastic frames wound with about six turns of thin wire
are still supplied with some tuners and audio units.
Bill
In message <XnsAE357F6DD7A7A37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 08:48 5 Feb 2022, Ian Jackson said:
In message <XnsAE35FBC3B84937B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours.
I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a >>>>loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an
earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's >>>>almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and >>>>perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors
think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually
it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials
inside the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an
external aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional, but
unless the required station was exactly in one of the two broadside
nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not that critical
for normal domestic use.
Regarding using old radios and record players, I'm rather bemused
when someone brings one into The Repair Shop (on TV) for restoration.
So far I've never seen any repairer take the precaution of at least
doing a slow, controlled wind-up of the mains voltage to give the
electrolytic capacitors a chance to reform, and to minimise the
chances of other catastrophic failures.
I haven't used the radio for about 5 years, when it worked fine. What >>precautions should I follow to keep it going?
I've never heard of reforming capacitors. How do you do a "slow, >>controlled wind-up of the mains voltage" or anything else that's needed? I >>couldn't find any decent web pages offering advice.
Start here:
https://tinyurl.com/2p8kdad6
I was given the radio second-hand by the local TV shop which was throwing >>it out 50 years ago and it would be nice to keep it going.
All the components are original (I once changed the speaker cloth!) but I >>don't have the stamina or equipment to get into a restoration project >>swapping lots of new components for old. However if doing something pays >>dividends then I would have to do it.
Old electronic components are prone to changing their values over time. Capacitors generally go leaky. The leaky high-voltage electrolytics can
short out the HT supply (often around 200V or more), and something's going
to go bang or burn out (could be something irreplaceable, like the mains transformer). Although usually not electrolytic, leaky coupling capacitors (between anode and grid) will cause a valve to take excessive current.
Ideally you should check all potentially faulty components before applying the normal mains, but the minimum work might be at least to gradually wind
up the supply voltage. If you don't have the facilities, try inserting a filament mains light bulb in series with the mains (maybe starting with a
low wattage one (which will have the highest resistance), and then progressing to higher wattages.
Of course, if there's a valve rectifier (and not solid-state), leaky HT electrolytics won't get any voltage across them until there's sufficient mains voltage to get the rectifier heaters glowing - so it's all a bit of
a compromise.
With any old electronic equipment that's working, it's probably a good
idea to power it up every so often to help stop the capacitors going
leaky.
--
Ian
On 05/02/2022 16:51, williamwright wrote:
On 05/02/2022 08:48, Ian Jackson wrote:
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials
inside the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an
external aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional, but
unless the required station was exactly in one of the two broadside
nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not that critical
for normal domestic use.
These little plastic frames wound with about six turns of thin wire
are still supplied with some tuners and audio units.
Are they as good as ferrite rod aerials?
My Armstrong 626 had a ferrite aerial at the back cased in plastic which could be turned if there was space.
Yes there are many still around in fact. they are not very efficient
power wise of course since valves need heaters to create the free
electrons that can move between plates. In my view the oscillators based
on Valves are cleaner and quieter than any semiconductor one is. Reason
not known, and this seems to result in much lower noise on receive in
most superhet designs. Be aware though that out there in the second hand market are some nasty examples of ac/ DC radios which do not use a mains transformer with isolated windings, but use a dropper resistor with taps instead. This results in a lot of heat and the chassis being live. The
aerial terminal on these is often isolated by a simple capacitor, but the earth is not, so don't to earth it! Some sets were retro fitted with
droppers which is why I am warning people.
Brian
On 05/02/2022 16:19, David Woolley wrote:
On 05/02/2022 16:07, David Paste wrote:
Wide angle lens in photography terms?
Not a valid analogy.
The human brain is like a giant fish. It had gills through which it can breathe.
Be aware though that out there in the second hand market are some nasty
examples of ac/ DC radios which do not use a mains transformer with isolated >windings, but use a dropper resistor with taps instead.
This results in a lot of heat and the chassis being live. The aerial
terminal on these is often isolated by a simple capacitor, but the earth is >not, so don't to earth it!
In message <XnsAE357F6DD7A7A37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 08:48 5 Feb 2022, Ian Jackson said:
In message <XnsAE35FBC3B84937B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> writes
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz
to 1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184
metres. I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the
UK. A quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those
wavelengths, so loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central
heating copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from
just trying this in case there's something I am not aware of
which results in a release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like
yours. I haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. >>>>Positioning a loop every time you tune a station would be too
fiddly. Using an earth would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well.
It's almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy
and perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits.
Visitors think it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but >>>>actually it's kept because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Before ferrite rods, some radios did have internal loop aerials
inside the wooden case (usually with additional connections for an
external aerial and earth). Obviously the loop was directional, but
unless the required station was exactly in one of the two broadside
nulls, the orientation of the radio was probably not that critical
for normal domestic use.
Regarding using old radios and record players, I'm rather bemused
when someone brings one into The Repair Shop (on TV) for
restoration. So far I've never seen any repairer take the
precaution of at least doing a slow, controlled wind-up of the
mains voltage to give the electrolytic capacitors a chance to
reform, and to minimise the chances of other catastrophic failures.
I haven't used the radio for about 5 years, when it worked fine. What >>precautions should I follow to keep it going?
I've never heard of reforming capacitors. How do you do a "slow, >>controlled wind-up of the mains voltage" or anything else that's
needed? I couldn't find any decent web pages offering advice.
Start here:
https://tinyurl.com/2p8kdad6
I was given the radio second-hand by the local TV shop which was
throwing it out 50 years ago and it would be nice to keep it going.
All the components are original (I once changed the speaker cloth!)
but I don't have the stamina or equipment to get into a restoration
project swapping lots of new components for old. However if doing >>something pays dividends then I would have to do it.
Old electronic components are prone to changing their values over
time. Capacitors generally go leaky. The leaky high-voltage
electrolytics can short out the HT supply (often around 200V or
more), and something's going to go bang or burn out (could be
something irreplaceable, like the mains transformer). Although
usually not electrolytic, leaky coupling capacitors (between anode
and grid) will cause a valve to take excessive current.
Ideally you should check all potentially faulty components before
applying the normal mains, but the minimum work might be at least to gradually wind up the supply voltage. If you don't have the
facilities, try inserting a filament mains light bulb in series with
the mains (maybe starting with a low wattage one (which will have the
highest resistance), and then progressing to higher wattages.
Of course, if there's a valve rectifier (and not solid-state), leaky
HT electrolytics won't get any voltage across them until there's
sufficient mains voltage to get the rectifier heaters glowing - so
it's all a bit of a compromise.
With any old electronic equipment that's working, it's probably a
good idea to power it up every so often to help stop the capacitors
going leaky.
In article <sto6qu$qmo$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Yes there are many still around in fact. they are not very efficient
power wise of course since valves need heaters to create the free
electrons that can move between plates. In my view the oscillators based
on Valves are cleaner and quieter than any semiconductor one is. Reason
not known, and this seems to result in much lower noise on receive in
most superhet designs. Be aware though that out there in the second hand
market are some nasty examples of ac/ DC radios which do not use a mains
transformer with isolated windings, but use a dropper resistor with taps
instead. This results in a lot of heat and the chassis being live. The
aerial terminal on these is often isolated by a simple capacitor, but the
earth is not, so don't to earth it! Some sets were retro fitted with
droppers which is why I am warning people.
And, we must not forget "line cord" where the mains lead was also a voltage dropper.
Thanks for the info. Out of interest, where in life's journey have you
gained such knowledge about these things? I imagine any professional
work on equivalent modern equipment never needs such methods.
The snag is that a small plain loop won't grab as much RF signal
power. But given the sensitivity and low noise of modern transistor devices that may not matter much.
On 06/02/2022 14:48, Pamela wrote:
Thanks for the info. Out of interest, where in life's journey have
you gained such knowledge about these things? I imagine any
professional work on equivalent modern equipment never needs such
methods.
I thought the problem of electrolytic capacitors losing their oxide
layer with non-use was actually fairly well known.
Electrolytics get their high capacitance by having a very thin oxide insulation layer, obtained by basically a corrosion process. In
normal use they can get away with defects appearing in this layer,
because the metal re-oxidises and recreates the insulation, but if
they are left for a long time, the oxide layer can dissolve away,
such that the current needed to regrow it is too great, and something overheats and lets the magic smoke out.
With any old electronic equipment that's working, it's probably a
good idea to power it up every so often to help stop the capacitors
going leaky.
Thanks for the info. Out of interest, where in life's journey have you
gained such knowledge about these things? I imagine any professional
work on equivalent modern equipment never needs such methods.
I think you need to be "of a certain age" so as to have grown up when
such electronic construction was the norm, and to have had a natural curiosity about all things technical from early childhood. You'd need
to be inclined to find out about things by (1) getting your hands
dirty, and (2) reading books - both of course but in that order. You'd probably find that a number of us in this newsgroup belong to that
category, but we're a dying breed.
On 07/02/2022 08:45, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I think you need to be "of a certain age" so as to have grown up when
such electronic construction was the norm, and to have had a natural
curiosity about all things technical from early childhood. You'd need
to be inclined to find out about things by (1) getting your hands
dirty, and (2) reading books - both of course but in that order. You'd
probably find that a number of us in this newsgroup belong to that
category, but we're a dying breed.
I stuck my fingers in an empty bedside lamp bulb holder at the age of 4,
and have never looked back.
On Sun, 06 Feb 2022 14:48:48 GMT, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
With any old electronic equipment that's working, it's probably a
good idea to power it up every so often to help stop the capacitors
going leaky.
Thanks for the info. Out of interest, where in life's journey have you >>gained such knowledge about these things? I imagine any professional
work on equivalent modern equipment never needs such methods.
I think you need to be "of a certain age" so as to have grown up when
such electronic construction was the norm, and to have had a natural curiosity about all things technical from early childhood. You'd need
to be inclined to find out about things by (1) getting your hands
dirty, and (2) reading books - both of course but in that order. You'd probably find that a number of us in this newsgroup belong to that
category, but we're a dying breed. I don't know where today's
youngsters would get anything like the same sort of knowledge, because
it's possible to see almost anything you might want on a screen
without ever getting involved, and most of today's electronics doesn't readily lend itself to investigation or repair without specialised
equipment. Whenever I think of this I consider myself lucky that my
lifetime has so far more or less paralleled the age of television,
which for practical purposes began with the coronation, when I was
just old enough to appreciate that television was something special.
Rod.
It's not so much hobbyist electronics and "fixing things" that I was >wondering about ... but more specifically where do you learn to
recondition vintage electronics.
The human brain is like a giant fish. It had gills through which it can breathe.
On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 15:56:57 GMT, Pamela
<pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
It's not so much hobbyist electronics and "fixing things" that I was
wondering about ... but more specifically where do you learn to
recondition vintage electronics.
You know about vintage electronics if you are "vintage" yourself,
having grown up in the age of thermionic valves, medium wave amplitude modulated radio, gramophone records and tape recorders. You gradually
absorb the knowledge by taking things to pieces to find out how they
work, learning the hard way which bits not to touch, building kits, repurposing components salvaged from junkshops and rubbish tips, and
reading magazines like Practical Wireless and other similar ones. Then
you get a job in broadcasting and they teach you even more. I've no
idea how a youngster would learn this stuff now, except perhaps by
watching oldies fixing things on Youtube.
Much of what you learn when you are young you never forget. I could
still tell you the pin connections for an HL2 triode valve, for all
the use that might be today, though anybody else who needs to know
would probably be old enough to remember it themselves.
Rod.
contained resistors which were .22mm across and ideal for firing from an
air pistol!
On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 22:39:46 +0000, Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
contained resistors which were .22mm across and ideal for firing from an
air pistol!
That seems rather on the small side, so I don't think so.
On Mon, 07 Feb 2022 22:39:46 +0000, Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
contained resistors which were .22mm across and ideal for firing from
an air pistol!
That seems rather on the small side, so I don't think so.
It's not so much hobbyist electronics and "fixing things" that I was wondering about ... but more specifically where do you learn to
recondition vintage electronics.
This seems very specialist and unlikely to come up often unless you're
in the trade (which I am assuming Ian isn't).
I think you need to be "of a certain age" so as to have grown up when
such electronic construction was the norm, and to have had a natural curiosity about all things technical from early childhood. You'd need to
be inclined to find out about things by (1) getting your hands dirty,
and (2) reading books - both of course but in that order. You'd probably
find that a number of us in this newsgroup belong to that category, but
we're a dying breed.
I don't know where today's youngsters would get anything like the same
sort of knowledge, because it's possible to see almost anything you
might want on a screen without ever getting involved, and most of
today's electronics doesn't readily lend itself to investigation or
repair without specialised equipment.
Yes, nasty experiences are remembered forever. Like the time I
discovered thet the TopCap connection on one radio valve was actually
the anode, and its 350V hurts even more than the mains 240V :-(
On 05/02/2022 18:10, Jim Lesurf wrote:
The snag is that a small plain loop won't grab as much RF signal
power. But given the sensitivity and low noise of modern transistor
devices that may not matter much.
In any case, on MW you can get away with quite inefficient aerials
because the receiver noise is dominated by sky noise, i.e. noise
received along with the signal. The receiver doesn't have to be very sensitive, because any signal strong enough to dominate the sky noise
will be quite strong.
At VHF it is different, because the noise generated by the receiver
itself begins to become significant.
In article <stovqp$f6i$1@dont-email.me>, David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
On 05/02/2022 18:10, Jim Lesurf wrote:
The snag is that a small plain loop won't grab as much RF signal
power. But given the sensitivity and low noise of modern transistor devices that may not matter much.
In any case, on MW you can get away with quite inefficient aerials
because the receiver noise is dominated by sky noise, i.e. noise
received along with the signal. The receiver doesn't have to be very sensitive, because any signal strong enough to dominate the sky noise
will be quite strong.
At VHF it is different, because the noise generated by the receiver
itself begins to become significant.
It is also possible that in some well-populated areas the noise from human use of electrical power adds to that as well.
Jim
I bought a second hand book when a teenager that is a sort of 'repair anything' manual for general home electrical/electronic items. From irons
to radio sets or TVs. I doubt the book would be regarded as 'safe' these days, and many items are deliberately made difficult/impossible to repair anyway.
I don't know where today's youngsters would get anything like the same
sort of knowledge, because it's possible to see almost anything you
might want on a screen without ever getting involved, and most of
today's electronics doesn't readily lend itself to investigation or
repair without specialised equipment.
Indeed, may be deliberately made to be 'unrepairable', even 'unopenable'.
On 07/02/2022 14:59, Mark Carver wrote:
On 07/02/2022 08:45, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I think you need to be "of a certain age" so as to have grown up when
such electronic construction was the norm, and to have had a natural
curiosity about all things technical from early childhood. You'd need
to be inclined to find out about things by (1) getting your hands
dirty, and (2) reading books - both of course but in that order. You'd
probably find that a number of us in this newsgroup belong to that
category, but we're a dying breed.
I stuck my fingers in an empty bedside lamp bulb holder at the age of
4, and have never looked back.
Ma was fond of telling everyone about a time, which I also vaguely
remember, that my elder brother was vacuuming the hallway of the flat we
were living in at the time, and he came into my room to pull the
extension apart so that he could empty it. Now I didn't know much about these things aged four, but I was quite sure that those two bits of lead
were supposed to be joined together, so I plugged them back in, and
there was a squeal from the hallway as the machine roared into life. Ma used to say that I was fascinated by electricity ever after.
I was given a book entitled something like "The Home Electrician". I
think probably the idea was that I should learn to do it safely!
On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 13:12:13 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
I was given a book entitled something like "The Home Electrician". I
think probably the idea was that I should learn to do it safely!
One of the most effective ways you can learn anything practical is
from mistakes - the non fatal ones at any rate. "What doesn't kill you
makes you much more careful next time" as the old saying has it.
In article <59b77c2097noise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
In article <stovqp$f6i$1@dont-email.me>, David Woolley
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
On 05/02/2022 18:10, Jim Lesurf wrote:
The snag is that a small plain loop won't grab as much RF signal
power. But given the sensitivity and low noise of modern transistor
devices that may not matter much.
In any case, on MW you can get away with quite inefficient aerials
because the receiver noise is dominated by sky noise, i.e. noise
received along with the signal. The receiver doesn't have to be very
sensitive, because any signal strong enough to dominate the sky noise
will be quite strong.
At VHF it is different, because the noise generated by the receiver
itself begins to become significant.
It is also possible that in some well-populated areas the noise from human >> use of electrical power adds to that as well.
Jim
Doesn't need much of a population. Electric fences are enough.
On 09/02/2022 08:33, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 13:12:13 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
I was given a book entitled something like "The Home Electrician". I
think probably the idea was that I should learn to do it safely!
One of the most effective ways you can learn anything practical is
from mistakes - the non fatal ones at any rate. "What doesn't kill you
makes you much more careful next time" as the old saying has it.
Nietzsche would be proud of you.
Doesn't need much of a population. Electric fences are enough.
The old fashioned ones, from memory
A weighted coil spring slowly oscillating back and forth. There is a
contact on an arm that is fixed to the spring, and at every cycle it
touches a fixed contact. This excites a car ignition coil. The coil
output is connected to the fence, which acts as a long wire aerial. A
very distinctive manifestation on the screens of every VHF TV within
half a mile.
I touched the wire attached to one of those once. Only once. I had encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country runI hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of a
(which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we
were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 11:59:31 +0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
On 09/02/2022 08:33, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Tue, 8 Feb 2022 13:12:13 +0000, Java Jive
<java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
I was given a book entitled something like "The Home
Electrician". I think probably the idea was that I should learn
to do it safely!
One of the most effective ways you can learn anything practical is
from mistakes - the non fatal ones at any rate. "What doesn't kill
you makes you much more careful next time" as the old saying has
it.
Nietzsche would be proud of you.
If Nietzsche had ever had an electric shock from a home made capacitor discharge ignition unit, I'm sure he'd understand. Some experiences
are worth taking considerable trouble not to repeat, just in case they haven't really made you stronger.
Rod.
I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of a large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields.
We used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective housing estates .
Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a stroll at the
earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did have to
artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression we'd run the course.
One site manager I worked with had been struck by lightning,
On 10/02/2022 09:53, Davey wrote:
One site manager I worked with had been struck by lightning,
There was a strike on a BT cabinet near my house once, I had wired interlinked smoke detector and it set them off.
I once disconnected a RF feeder carrying a few KW, very impressed by the
way the protection circuits worked so there was no damage. (It was not
my fault, I had been told it was switched off!).
I was at Eitshal after the fire and we had to ring the Met Office every morning to get a lightning risk report - we had to leave site if it was
above a certain level.
Yesterday on Harris they had a severe hailstorm making the roads very difficult to drive on, (I had a Zoom meeting witn someone from there)
On 10/02/2022 13:41, charles wrote:
Yesterday on Harris they had a severe hailstorm making the roads very
difficult to drive on, (I had a Zoom meeting witn someone from there)
Often get ligtning damage after conditions like that.
They were warning of Heavy Yellow Snow Showers, oooops, Yellow Warning
of Heavy Snow from 1600h yesterday but we just just had some hail later
in the evening.
I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of a large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields.
We used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective housing estates .
Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a stroll at the
earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did have to
artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression we'd run the course.
On 10/02/2022 13:41, charles wrote:
Yesterday on Harris they had a severe hailstorm making the roads very
difficult to drive on, (I had a Zoom meeting witn someone from there)
Often get ligtning damage after conditions like that.
They were warning of Heavy Yellow Snow Showers, oooops, Yellow Warning
of Heavy Snow from 1600h yesterday but we just just had some hail later
in the evening.
On 10/02/2022 09:53, Davey wrote:
One site manager I worked with had been struck by lightning,
There was a strike on a BT cabinet near my house once, I had wired interlinked smoke detector and it set them off.
I once disconnected a RF feeder carrying a few KW, very impressed by
the way the protection circuits worked so there was no damage. (It
was not my fault, I had been told it was switched off!).
I was at Eitshal after the fire and we had to ring the Met Office
every morning to get a lightning risk report - we had to leave site
if it was above a certain level.
On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I touched the wire attached to one of those once. Only once. I had encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country runI hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle
(which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as
we were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
of a large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields. We
used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their
respective housing estates . Myself and my friends would similarly
drop down into a stroll at the earliest opportunity, although towards
the end we did have to artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give
the impression we'd run the course.
On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I touched the wire attached to one of those once. Only once. I had encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run (which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as weI hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of a large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields.
were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
We used to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools
from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective housing estates .
Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a stroll at the earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did have to
artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression we'd run the course.
Do they still have cross country runs anywhere? I have a school at the
end of my road and they don't.
On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 09:24:37 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I touched the wire attached to one of those once. Only once. I had encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run (which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)I hated Cross Country at school. My secondary school was the middle of
a large rural area, with woods, streams, and a boggy fields. We used
to host the annual area Cross Country event with the schools from the nearby town where they only had to jog around their respective housing estates . Myself and my friends would similarly drop down into a
stroll at the earliest opportunity, although towards the end we did
have to artificiality cover ourselves in mud to give the impression
we'd run the course.
Likewise - until 14 I was schooled in Scotland. Usually if the ground
was frozen too hard to play rugby we would instead be sent out on a cross country in the hills in shorts and a singlet at sub zero temperatures.
It was best to keep running if you did not want hypothermia.
PS not always - I got some nasty abrasions from being tackled on a frozen pitch!
On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 09:24:37 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:did not want hypothermia.
On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I had
encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run
(which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we
were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
I hated Cross Country at school. [snip]
Likewise - until 14 I was schooled in Scotland. Usually if the ground was frozen too hard to play rugby we would instead be sent out on a cross country in the hills in shorts and a singlet at sub zero temperatures. It was best to keep running if you
PS not always - I got some nasty abrasions from being tackled on a frozen pitch!
On 11/02/2022 09:55, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 09:24:37 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I had
encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run
(which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we
were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
I hated Cross Country at school. [snip]
Likewise - until 14 I was schooled in Scotland. Usually if the ground
was frozen too hard to play rugby we would instead be sent out on a cross
country in the hills in shorts and a singlet at sub zero temperatures.
It was best to keep running if you did not want hypothermia.
PS not always - I got some nasty abrasions from being tackled on a frozen
pitch!
Yes cross-country running was compulsory once a week until you reached a certain age in our school. Hated it at the time, but later in life when
at agricultural college did it once or twice a week in the summer
holidays, beautiful part of the world with beautiful views so it was
getting to be almost a pleasure by the time the holidays ended. Next term
as a result, playing for the college badminton team, my reactions were
never faster.
On 11/02/2022 10:08, Ashley Booth wrote:
Probably not. Even by 1970s standards and culture, it felt like
Do they still have cross country runs anywhere? I have a school at the
end of my road and they don't.
borderline sadistic treatment, or maybe I was just being a sissy ?!
"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message news:su5lij$9sh$1@dont-email.me...
On 11/02/2022 09:55, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 09:24:37 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I had
encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run >>>>> (which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we >>>>> were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
I hated Cross Country at school. [snip]
Likewise - until 14 I was schooled in Scotland. Usually if the
ground was frozen too hard to play rugby we would instead be sent out
on a cross country in the hills in shorts and a singlet at sub zero
temperatures. It was best to keep running if you did not want
hypothermia.
PS not always - I got some nasty abrasions from being tackled on a
frozen pitch!
Yes cross-country running was compulsory once a week until you reached
a certain age in our school. Hated it at the time, but later in life
when at agricultural college did it once or twice a week in the summer
holidays, beautiful part of the world with beautiful views so it was
getting to be almost a pleasure by the time the holidays ended. Next
term as a result, playing for the college badminton team, my reactions
were never faster.
Our cross country running route was like an obstacle course of hazards
to be overcome:
- down the narrow ginnel between the hedges, taking care not to slip on
the discarded "rubber goods" that had been left by the clients of Fuzz
Bang, the local prostitute: that ginnel was her night-time "patch" (allegedly)
- through the estate, avoiding the verbal insults and sometimes
half-bricks that were thrown by the local "Pots Kids"
- along the muddy un-made road, getting plastered from head to foot in
cold muddy water
- past the three hazards in quick succession:
  - the "Stink Factory where they boiled up animal carcases to make
glue (hold your breath to avoid puking at the smell)
  - under the pylons which fizzed, spluttered and crackled on a cold
damp November afternoon (but the corona round the wires was pretty)
  - past the car-breakers yard where the Alsatian guard dogs were
easer to taste our blood (maybe stop to lob boulders at the scrap cars
left outside the gates to see if we could break a windscreen or two)
- along to the end of the lane, turn left and up to the war memorial
where the teacher would be sitting in his car wearing his thick overcoat
with the heater on full blast (*)
- up the hill and over the top, to rejoin the outgoing route (past the
Three Hazards, the Pots Kids and Fuzz Bang's johnnies) and home (**)
(*) We once moaned at the teacher, who also taught us maths, that he had
it easy. "Privilege of age and experience" he said with a big grin.
(**) Hence the roll-call at the war memorial, to catch out anyone who
hid at the junction in the P-shaped route, waiting to rejoin all those
mugs who had done the full course.
On Fri 11/02/2022 13:52, NY wrote:
"Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message
news:su5lij$9sh$1@dont-email.me...
On 11/02/2022 09:55, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Thursday, 10 February 2022 at 09:24:37 UTC, Mark Carver wrote:
On 10/02/2022 06:18, Roderick Stewart wrote:
I had
encountered it with a group of schoolmates on on a cross-country run >>>>>> (which as usual had changed into a cross country stroll as soon as we >>>>>> were out of sight of the school, but that's another story)
I hated Cross Country at school. [snip]
Likewise - until 14 I was schooled in Scotland. Usually if the
ground was frozen too hard to play rugby we would instead be sent
out on a cross country in the hills in shorts and a singlet at sub
zero temperatures. It was best to keep running if you did not want
hypothermia.
PS not always - I got some nasty abrasions from being tackled on a
frozen pitch!
Yes cross-country running was compulsory once a week until you
reached a certain age in our school. Hated it at the time, but later
in life when at agricultural college did it once or twice a week in
the summer holidays, beautiful part of the world with beautiful views
so it was getting to be almost a pleasure by the time the holidays
ended. Next term as a result, playing for the college badminton
team, my reactions were never faster.
Our cross country running route was like an obstacle course of hazards
to be overcome:
- down the narrow ginnel between the hedges, taking care not to slip
on the discarded "rubber goods" that had been left by the clients of
Fuzz Bang, the local prostitute: that ginnel was her night-time
"patch" (allegedly)
- through the estate, avoiding the verbal insults and sometimes
half-bricks that were thrown by the local "Pots Kids"
- along the muddy un-made road, getting plastered from head to foot in
cold muddy water
- past the three hazards in quick succession:
   - the "Stink Factory where they boiled up animal carcases to make
glue (hold your breath to avoid puking at the smell)
   - under the pylons which fizzed, spluttered and crackled on a cold
damp November afternoon (but the corona round the wires was pretty)
   - past the car-breakers yard where the Alsatian guard dogs were
easer to taste our blood (maybe stop to lob boulders at the scrap cars
left outside the gates to see if we could break a windscreen or two)
- along to the end of the lane, turn left and up to the war memorial
where the teacher would be sitting in his car wearing his thick
overcoat with the heater on full blast (*)
- up the hill and over the top, to rejoin the outgoing route (past the
Three Hazards, the Pots Kids and Fuzz Bang's johnnies) and home (**)
(*) We once moaned at the teacher, who also taught us maths, that he
had it easy. "Privilege of age and experience" he said with a big grin.
(**) Hence the roll-call at the war memorial, to catch out anyone who
hid at the junction in the P-shaped route, waiting to rejoin all those
mugs who had done the full course.
Our PT teacher was an ex army PTI and a bully. We had to do a cross
country every Tuesday morning which comprised:-
400m along a country lane with footpaths which was a busy 'back' route
500m up a grassy field
700m along the footpath on the side of the A6!!!
1100m through a housing estate and onto the original lane from the other
end
Oh, and I forgot, 200m x 2 to and from the school gate.
In total (for those without a calculator!) 3.1Km or a gnats under 2m in
old money. We started after assembly at about 09:05 and the next period started at 09:50. In that 45 mins we had to get changed, do the run,
have a shower and dress, and get to the next classroom. Those at the
back (including YT) often didn't get there until 10:00 which eventually
(we learned) led to a right royal staff room bust up between the PT
master and the next teacher (French ISTR) but as the PT man was a bully
not even the head could instruct him otherwise!
Our PT teacher was an ex army PTI and a bully.
On 05.02.2022 02:32, Pamela wrote:
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I
haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth
would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think
it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept
because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
Hii Pamela,
you are probably aware, but just in case.
If the radio hasn't been properly restored there is a danger of serious >damage to components which are no longer available (mains and output >transformers) if switched on after a long period of storage. Some
coupling Capacitors are notorious for becoming leaky, leading to
overstressed output valves and high currents causing damage to these >components.
Sorry if I'm teaching my grandmother to suck eggs but I though it a good
idea to mention this to possibly prevent a much loved radio being damaged.
On Sat, 05 Feb 2022 01:32:48 GMT, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> >wrote:
On 16:05 2 Feb 2022, David Paste said:
Hello all,
I return with yet more aerial related questions.
The radio next to me has an AM radio with reception from 522 kHz to
1629 kHz, giving approximate wavelengths of 574 metres to 184 metres.
I understand that AM radio is vertically polarised in the UK. A
quarter wave dipole would be a bit unwieldy at those wavelengths, so
loop antennas are used.
1. How long should the wire that is looped be?
1(a). Can connecting the AM aerial terminal to the central heating
copper piping act as an aerial? I am discouraged from just trying
this in case there's something I am not aware of which results in a
release of the Magic Smoke.
I have a 1940s valve radio which needs an external aerial like yours. I >>haven't used it in ages but we would use a long wire. Positioning a
loop every time you tune a station would be too fiddly. Using an earth >>would be posh.
The last time I tried it the creaky old thing was working well. It's
almost identical to this one on eBay, although not as glossy and
perfect. Mine has a wooden case and I love it to bits. Visitors think >>it's some broken old radio kept as an ornament but actually it's kept >>because it works.
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/224819633440
It's quite modern it has FM :-) In the 1950s, I had a radio that an uncle had >bought during the war. I was given it when he emigrated to Canada. My parents >binned it when they emigrated to Australia. Such a waste.
In message <VJCdncRsQYJQKWP8nZ2dnUU7-WHNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Max
Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> writes
On 05/02/2022 15:55, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 5 Feb 2022 13:07:24 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 05/02/2022 12:17, Pamela wrote:
The liquid filled ones are the most fun, but they're pretty rareIt's new to me and Ian mentioned something about caapcitors. It's probably
5 years since I used the radio. What drill should I follow next time I use
it?
Large electrolytic capacitors can also make a mess if they fail, i.e.
explode!
now,
and I don't really think you're supposed to connect them directly
across the mains...
I'm glad you don't think that!!!
If the smoothing ones in cans dry out you could just wire a (much
smaller) modern one across the terminals under the chassis.
They rarely 'dry out'. Normally they go low-impedance.
The older type of electrolytics are, if not wet*, damp, and rely on a
thin insulating layer between the +ve and -ve electrodes, and which is >actually initially formed by electrolytic action. If the capacitor is
left for a long time without any voltage applied, this layer dissolves, >leaving a more-or-less a short circuit. However, it can often be
re-formed by the gradual application of the DC voltage (preferably >individually, via a current-limiting resistor, and observing the ingoing >current and the voltage across the capacitor). *Some really old types
really WERE wet, and you could hear the electrolyte sloshing around if
you shook them.
If you are restoring an old (collectible) radio (etc), purists will
remove the innards of faulty electrolytics (and other components), and
fit a modern one inside. Correctly done, the unit will look like new.
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