It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all customers were like the people in this group.
It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all customers were like the people in this group.
Bill
On 24/01/2022 21:59, williamwright wrote:
It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all
customers were like the people in this group.
Only for the cowboy installers.
On 25/01/2022 08:30, alan_m wrote:
On 24/01/2022 21:59, williamwright wrote:
It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if all
customers were like the people in this group.
Only for the cowboy installers.
I don't entirely agree. Most tradesmen are happy to have a reasonable
amount of discussion with customers about the technicalities, but some
people do seem to over-think things and it can take time to deal with
that. The other thing is that some people form hypotheses from
inadequate or incorrect data, then the hypothesis becomes hard incontrovertible fact in their mind. That can be very difficult and time-consuming to deal with.
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC engineers.
Bill
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC engineers.
What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
ensues if you aren't.
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
engineers.
What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
ensues if you aren't.
On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
engineers.
What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that ensues if you aren't.
And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
wants it done slightly differently....
For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead of plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also asked for all
of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He wanted to simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the existing plasterboard.
The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one day could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was better
to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I didn't
want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
requirement arose for a wet room.
He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply instead
of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there was more
work for him to be earning money on.
On 25/01/2022 08:30, alan_m wrote:
On 24/01/2022 21:59, williamwright wrote:
It would be a nightmare for the installers of home electronics if
all customers were like the people in this group.
Only for the cowboy installers.
I don't entirely agree. Most tradesmen are happy to have a reasonable
amount of discussion with customers about the technicalities, but
some people do seem to over-think things and it can take time to deal
with that. The other thing is that some people form hypotheses from inadequate or incorrect data, then the hypothesis becomes hard incontrovertible fact in their mind. That can be very difficult and time-consuming to deal with.
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC engineers.
Bill
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having anWhat about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
engineers.
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:So he *did* listen to you but, quite reasonably, said he didn't want
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
engineers.
What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
ensues if you aren't.
And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
wants it done slightly differently....
For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead of
plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also asked for all
of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He wanted to
simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the existing plasterboard. >>
The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one day
could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was better
to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I didn't
want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
requirement arose for a wet room.
He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply instead
of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there was more
work for him to be earning money on.
to do the job. Surely that's a sensible response?!
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC engineers.
On 26/01/2022 09:37, SH wrote:
On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
engineers.
What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
ensues if you aren't.
And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
wants it done slightly differently....
For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead
of plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also asked for
all of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He
wanted to simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the
existing plasterboard.
The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one
day could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was
better to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I
didn't want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
requirement arose for a wet room.
He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply
instead of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there
was more work for him to be earning money on.
Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence
sloped along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the
fence top line was a straight horizontally level line.
I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts and
increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood fence
panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as the
slope progressed.
I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out the
whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and didn't
want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.
This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.
Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too difficult
(this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job) and walked
off......
It must be you!
Bill
On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an
aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
engineers.
What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that
ensues if you aren't.
And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
wants it done slightly differently....
For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard floor
and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used instead of plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also asked for all
of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with Aquapanel. He wanted to simply take the old tiles off and retile new onto the existing
plasterboard.
The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one day could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was better
to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I didn't
want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
requirement arose for a wet room.
He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not quoting
and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3 weeks for a
bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no more ply instead
of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even though there was more
work for him to be earning money on.
Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence sloped
along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the fence top
line was a straight horizontally level line.
I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts and increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood fence
panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as the slope progressed.
I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out the
whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and didn't
want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.
This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.
Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too difficult
(this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job) and walked off......
What about ex ITV(ITN) engineers that are also radio amateurs (me)?
On 26/01/2022 12:17, williamwright wrote:
On 26/01/2022 09:37, SH wrote:
On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an >>>>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC
engineers.
What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any
old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that >>>> ensues if you aren't.
And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the customer
wants it done slightly differently....
For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard
floor and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used
instead of plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also
asked for all of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with
Aquapanel. He wanted to simply take the old tiles off and retile new
onto the existing plasterboard.
The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one
day could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it was
better to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and walls. I
didn't want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and retile when the
requirement arose for a wet room.
He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not
quoting and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3
weeks for a bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no
more ply instead of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even
though there was more work for him to be earning money on.
Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence
sloped along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the
fence top line was a straight horizontally level line.
I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts
and increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood
fence panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as
the slope progressed.
I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out the
whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and didn't
want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.
This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.
Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too difficult
(this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job) and walked
off......
It must be you!
Bill
I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are being serious? :-)
But seriously, what is wrong with asking for waterproof Aquapanel to be
used to replace the old PB or that the top edge of a new fence remains horizontally level?
On 26/01/2022 12:25, SH wrote:
On 26/01/2022 12:17, williamwright wrote:
On 26/01/2022 09:37, SH wrote:
On 25/01/2022 19:47, Paul Ratcliffe wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jan 2022 15:01:02 +0000, williamwright
<wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
I would say that the worst group of people as customers for having an >>>>>> aerial or dish installed are radio amateurs. Next would come ex-BBC >>>>>> engineers.
What about not yet ex, but probably soon to be?
I find that if you don't watch over these tradesmen, they just do any >>>>> old thing and you're left to sort the mess out afterwards.
One tries not to be too interfering, but I'm fed up with the crap that >>>>> ensues if you aren't.
And also tradesmen who prefer to do things their *way* rather than
listen to the customer's requirements and understand why the
customer wants it done slightly differently....
For example, I had a tradesperson round to price up a bathroom refit.
I knew that there was nothing but adhesive between the chipboard
floor and the old floor tiles so I asked for No Nore Ply to be used
instead of plywood (which is what he was wanting to use) and I also
asked for all of the old wall plasterboard to be replaced with
Aquapanel. He wanted to simply take the old tiles off and retile new
onto the existing plasterboard.
The reason for using aquapanel and no more ply was that the room one
day could end up being used as a walk in wet room so I thought it
was better to do this as part of the retiling of the floors and
walls. I didn't want to have to re-do the walls, floor etc and
retile when the requirement arose for a wet room.
He basically said, I am not interested in this job so I am not
quoting and he walked off. His argument was that he factors in 3
weeks for a bathroom refit and doing the PB placement and using no
more ply instead of plywood would take him over the 3 weeks even
though there was more work for him to be earning money on.
Another one was the garden fence. I had a ground slope fall of 90 cm
from one corner to the diagonally opposite corner. The old fence
sloped along with the ground but had trellis fitted & trimmed so the
fence top line was a straight horizontally level line.
I asked for quotes for a new fence where increasingly longer posts
and increasing gravel board depth to be used so that the new wood
fence panels top edges were in a straight horizontally level line as
the slope progressed.
I was going to build a retaining wall just inside the fence at the
deepest part of the garden and then infill with soil to level out
the whole garden, the idea to increase the usable garden space and
didn't want to resort to decking on piles over a garden slope.
This meant a long fence starting from about 1.8m tall to 2.6m tall.
Every fence fitter took one look and proclaimed the job too
difficult (this was 52 fence panels and 53 posts so not a small job)
and walked off......
It must be you!
Bill
I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are
being serious? :-)
But seriously, what is wrong with asking for waterproof Aquapanel to
be used to replace the old PB or that the top edge of a new fence
remains horizontally level?
Nothing wrong with asking. But if traders aren't used to doing what you want, and aren't short of other work, also nothing wrong with them
walking away from a risk.
On a point of detail, did you tell the fencers you had planning permission?
I showed the plans to the fencing companies so it was clear what they
were being asked to quote for, and like I said, they walked away.
It must be you!
Bill
I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are being serious? :-)
It may well be a sensible response but I was left with the feeling that
it was the tradesperson's way only or not at all!
Its like asking a decorator to quote painting the ceiling black (instead
of the decorator always painting ceilings white) and the decorator
turning down the job simply because it was not the way he does it!
On 26/01/2022 12:25, SH wrote:
It must be you!
Bill
I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are being
serious? :-)
Semi-serious. I have known customers who are somehow off-putting, just by their manner. No fault of theirs; it's just a human nature thing. I have sometimes ignored instinct and persevered with such people and once I've gained their confidence they're perfectly fine.
"williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message news:j5d8pmFc1tU1@mid.individual.net...
On 26/01/2022 12:25, SH wrote:
It must be you!
Bill
I can't decide if its meant as tongue in cheek or whether you are
being serious? :-)
Semi-serious. I have known customers who are somehow off-putting, just
by their manner. No fault of theirs; it's just a human nature thing. I
have sometimes ignored instinct and persevered with such people and
once I've gained their confidence they're perfectly fine.
There is the customer who *thinks* he understands what the problem is and
has already decided before you get there how he wants you to fix it, irrespective of that fact that you can see that the cause (and therefore
the solution) is something else. I had one guy whose PC I was fixing who became quite shirty because I diagnosed the fault to be something
different to what he'd decided. It's at times like this that you have to count to ten, *mentally* call them all the names under the sun, and then
give a more polite response.
There is the customer who *thinks* he understands what the problem is
and has already decided before you get there how he wants you to fix it, irrespective of that fact that you can see that the cause (and therefore
the solution) is something else. I had one guy whose PC I was fixing who became quite shirty because I diagnosed the fault to be something
different to what he'd decided. It's at times like this that you have to count to ten, *mentally* call them all the names under the sun, and then
give a more polite response.
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