On Tuesday, 18 January 2022 at 19:46:25 UTC, wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote:
Discuss
Bill
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at ~28GHz and up.
They claim it will interfere with avionics (radio altimeters?), so the
FAA has suspended introduction for six months.
As it happens there is no mmWave in Europe and 5G phones sold here don't [yet] have it in, so no need to duck when a plane goes over.
Discuss
Bill
R. Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 January 2022 at 19:46:25 UTC, wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote: >>> Discuss
Bill
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at ~28GHz and up.
They claim it will interfere with avionics (radio altimeters?), so the
FAA has suspended introduction for six months.
As it happens there is no mmWave in Europe and 5G phones sold here don't
[yet] have it in, so no need to duck when a plane goes over.
Not 28GHz but much lower down in C band
https://www.icao.int/safety/FSMP/MeetingDocs/FSMP%20WG11/IP/FSMP-WG11-IP08_ICAO%20Flight%20Operations%20Panel%20and%20IATA%20%20IFALPA%205G%20problem%20statement.pdf
Radar altimeters (RA), operating at 4.2-4.4 GHz, are the only sensors
onboard a civil aircraft which provide a direct measurement of the
clearance height of the aircraft over the terrain or other obstacles (i.e. the Above Ground Level - AGL - information).
The RA systems’ input is required and used by many aircraft systems when AGL is below 2500 ft. Any failures or interruptions of these sensors can therefore lead to incidents with catastrophic outcome, potentially
resulting in multiple fatalities. The radar altimeters also play a crucial role in providing situational awareness to the flight crew. The
measurements from the radar altimeters are also used by Automatic Flight Guidance and Control Systems (AFGCS) during instrument approaches, and to control the display of information from other systems, such as Predictive Wind Shear (PWS), the Engine-Indicating and Crew-Alerting System (EICAS),
and Electronic Centralized Aircraft Monitoring (ECAM) systems, to the
flight crew.
There is a major risk that 5G telecommunications systems in the 3.7–3.98 GHz band will cause harmful interference to radar altimeters on all types
of civil aircraft—including commercial transport airplanes; business, regional, and general aviation airplanes; and both transport and general aviation helicopters. If there is no proper mitigation, this risk has the potential for broad impacts to aviation operations in the United States as well as in other regions where the 5G network is being implemented next to the 4.2-4.4 GHz frequency band.
An example listed further below shows, that the identified risk has materialized during certain airline operations impacted by similar interference.
(See link for more info)
See also https://www.faa.gov/5g
On Tue 18/01/2022 21:13, Tweed wrote:
R. Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 January 2022 at 19:46:25 UTC, wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote: >>>> Discuss
Bill
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at ~28GHz and up.
They claim it will interfere with avionics (radio altimeters?), so the
FAA has suspended introduction for six months.
As it happens there is no mmWave in Europe and 5G phones sold here don't >>> [yet] have it in, so no need to duck when a plane goes over.
Not 28GHz but much lower down in C band
https://www.icao.int/safety/FSMP/MeetingDocs/FSMP%20WG11/IP/FSMP-WG11-IP08_ICAO%20Flight%20Operations%20Panel%20and%20IATA%20%20IFALPA%205G%20problem%20statement.pdf
Radar altimeters (RA), operating at 4.2-4.4 GHz, are the only sensors
onboard a civil aircraft which provide a direct measurement of the
clearance height of the aircraft over the terrain or other obstacles (i.e. >> the Above Ground Level - AGL - information).
The RA systems’ input is required and used by many aircraft systems when >> AGL is below 2500 ft. Any failures or interruptions of these sensors can
therefore lead to incidents with catastrophic outcome, potentially
resulting in multiple fatalities. The radar altimeters also play a crucial >> role in providing situational awareness to the flight crew. The
measurements from the radar altimeters are also used by Automatic Flight
Guidance and Control Systems (AFGCS) during instrument approaches, and to
control the display of information from other systems, such as Predictive
Wind Shear (PWS), the Engine-Indicating and Crew-Alerting System (EICAS),
and Electronic Centralized Aircraft Monitoring (ECAM) systems, to the
flight crew.
There is a major risk that 5G telecommunications systems in the 3.7–3.98 >> GHz band will cause harmful interference to radar altimeters on all types
of civil aircraft—including commercial transport airplanes; business,
regional, and general aviation airplanes; and both transport and general
aviation helicopters. If there is no proper mitigation, this risk has the
potential for broad impacts to aviation operations in the United States as >> well as in other regions where the 5G network is being implemented next to >> the 4.2-4.4 GHz frequency band.
An example listed further below shows, that the identified risk has
materialized during certain airline operations impacted by similar
interference.
(See link for more info)
See also https://www.faa.gov/5g
Am I mistaken or don't commercial aircraft have wi-fi on board these
days (I don't fly)? They are wideband in nearby frequency ranges and I
would guess perhaps phone/tablets are not as spectrally clean as the
avionics equipment and could splatter all over it?
R. Mark Clayton <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, 18 January 2022 at 19:46:25 UTC, wrightsaerials@aol.com
wrote:
Discuss
Bill
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at
~28GHz and up.
They claim it will interfere with avionics (radio altimeters?), so the
FAA has suspended introduction for six months.
As it happens there is no mmWave in Europe and 5G phones sold here don't
[yet] have it in, so no need to duck when a plane goes over.
Not 28GHz but much lower down in C band
https://www.icao.int/safety/FSMP/MeetingDocs/FSMP%20WG11/IP/FSMP-WG11-IP08_ICAO%20Flight%20Operations%20Panel%20and%20IATA%20%20IFALPA%205G%20problem%20statement.pdf
Radar altimeters (RA), operating at 4.2-4.4 GHz, are the only sensors
onboard a civil aircraft which provide a direct measurement of the
clearance height of the aircraft over the terrain or other obstacles (i.e. the Above Ground Level - AGL - information).
The RA systems' input is required and used by many aircraft systems when
AGL is below 2500 ft. Any failures or interruptions of these sensors can therefore lead to incidents with catastrophic outcome, potentially
resulting in multiple fatalities. The radar altimeters also play a crucial role in providing situational awareness to the flight crew. The
measurements from the radar altimeters are also used by Automatic Flight Guidance and Control Systems (AFGCS) during instrument approaches, and to control the display of information from other systems, such as Predictive Wind Shear (PWS), the Engine-Indicating and Crew-Alerting System (EICAS),
and Electronic Centralized Aircraft Monitoring (ECAM) systems, to the
flight crew.
There is a major risk that 5G telecommunications systems in the 3.7-3.98
GHz band will cause harmful interference to radar altimeters on all types
of civil aircraft-including commercial transport airplanes; business, regional, and general aviation airplanes; and both transport and general aviation helicopters. If there is no proper mitigation, this risk has the potential for broad impacts to aviation operations in the United States as well as in other regions where the 5G network is being implemented next to the 4.2-4.4 GHz frequency band.
An example listed further below shows, that the identified risk has materialized during certain airline operations impacted by similar interference.
(See link for more info)
See also https://www.faa.gov/5g
Discuss
Bill
On Tuesday, 18 January 2022 at 19:46:25 UTC, wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote:
Discuss
Bill
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at
~28GHz and up.
They claim it will interfere with avionics (radio altimeters?), so the FAA has suspended introduction for six months.
As it happens there is no mmWave in Europe and 5G phones sold here don't [yet] have it in, so no need to duck when a plane goes over.
wrightsaerials wrote:
Discuss
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at ~28GHz and up.
Is that not a little high for communications?
In the clear its only going to be line of sight.
Also, a lot of satellites use frequencies up there for remote sensing too,
so speckles all over the pictures on very expensive sats would I assume not be welcome either!
Was not a problem recently in Japan when somebody tried to do uplinks to
sats from individual dishes on houses? Brian
--SNIP
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at
~28GHz and up.
They claim it will interfere with avionics (radio altimeters?), so the FAA has suspended introduction for six months.
As it happens there is no mmWave in Europe and 5G phones sold here don't [yet] have it in, so no need to duck when a plane goes over.
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
wrightsaerials wrote:
Discuss
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at ~28GHz and up.The "flap" I've seen has not been regarding mmWave but the 3550-3980 MHz band and possible interference with radio altimeters between 4200 and 4400 MHz, I've seen others rebut it.
Also the n77 & n79 bands run much closer directly below 4200 and directly above
4400.
On Wednesday, 19 January 2022 at 09:20:36 UTC, Andy Burns wrote:
R. Mark Clayton wrote:
wrightsaerials wrote:
Discuss
The US airlines are flapping, well not literally, about 5G mmWave at ~28GHz and up.The "flap" I've seen has not been regarding mmWave but the 3550-3980 MHz band
and possible interference with radio altimeters between 4200 and 4400 MHz, I've seen others rebut it.
Also the n77 & n79 bands run much closer directly below 4200 and directly aboveYes - better information makes that clear. In the UK 3g4Hz to 3G8Hz is used for 5G.
4400.
Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Am I mistaken or don't commercial aircraft have wi-fi on board these
days (I don't fly)? They are wideband in nearby frequency ranges and I
would guess perhaps phone/tablets are not as spectrally clean as the
avionics equipment and could splatter all over it?
WiFi in planes is much further away in frequency and very much lower in
power and is largely contained by the cabin structure . It also tends to
get turned off during takeoff and landing.
On 19/01/2022 06:54, Tweed wrote:
Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Am I mistaken or don't commercial aircraft have wi-fi on board these
days (I don't fly)? They are wideband in nearby frequency ranges and I
would guess perhaps phone/tablets are not as spectrally clean as the
avionics equipment and could splatter all over it?
WiFi in planes is much further away in frequency and very much lower in
power and is largely contained by the cabin structure . It also tends to
get turned off during takeoff and landing.
How do planes get the backhaul connection to the internet to provide a
wifi connection? Do they have receivers that can track the satellites
that provide satellite internet feeds to buildings on the ground that
can't get decent xDSL broadband?
I've not been on a plane since I've owned a mobile phone (so over 20
years) and I hadn't realised that internet on a plane was even possible.
Do planes provide a femtocell for voice calls on a mobile via the same backhaul? I'd always assumed that "flight mode" was provided mobiles
because they weren't allowed to have voice, mobile internet or wifi
turned on *at all*, rather than being allowed except during take-off and landing.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 294 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 245:45:47 |
| Calls: | 6,626 |
| Calls today: | 2 |
| Files: | 12,175 |
| Messages: | 5,320,569 |