I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
Thanks.
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
Thanks.
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
Thanks.
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a
pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
On 13/01/2022 08:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a
pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion
they can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would
be able to comment on that.
Thanks.
yes, those twin and earth cables buried in your walls act as long
antennas and radiate outwards the signals of the powerline network.
They can affect others trying to recieve Shortwave, Medium Wave, Long
Wave and those interested in Ham or DX (distance reception)
Thetre is a person called Brian Gaff who can give you chapter and
verse.....
what I have done for my smartphones which can only use Wi Fi is to fit
some Unifi LR-AC Access points on the ceilings in various rooms to give
me good 2.4GHz and 5 GHz coverage around the house
However, you really cannot beat cabling up a house in co-ax and ethernet...... I have well over 32 co-ax and well over 32 ethernet
sockets dotted around the house.....  Even the garage and the kitche
got the same treatment.
I eventually ran a long (50 metre) Cat5e ethernet cable upstairs and put
an 8-port ethernet switch on the end of it to regenerate any losses from
the long cable and that worked perfectly. The powerlines are now back
in their box, and I have used another of the ports off the upstairs
switch for a NAS device because I had the flexibility to do that.
On Thu 13/01/2022 08:49, SH wrote:
On 13/01/2022 08:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a
pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion
they can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would
be able to comment on that.
Thanks.
yes, those twin and earth cables buried in your walls act as long
antennas and radiate outwards the signals of the powerline network.
They can affect others trying to recieve Shortwave, Medium Wave, Long
Wave and those interested in Ham or DX (distance reception)
Thetre is a person called Brian Gaff who can give you chapter and
verse.....
what I have done for my smartphones which can only use Wi Fi is to fit
some Unifi LR-AC Access points on the ceilings in various rooms to
give me good 2.4GHz and 5 GHz coverage around the house
However, you really cannot beat cabling up a house in co-ax and
ethernet...... I have well over 32 co-ax and well over 32 ethernet
sockets dotted around the house.....  Even the garage and the kitche
got the same treatment.
Better still, get a mesh system. OK they are not cheap but they do work
and use the 5GHz band for intercoms but in a part of the band which is
not normally used for wi-fi. They normally come as router plus two or
three units.
The alternative is to take some external-grade CAT5e or CAT6 up the
outside wall into the loft and then run it to where you need
connections. One way to get the cable down from the loft is inside the
airing cupboard and then under the upstairs floors.
On 13/01/2022 16:48, Woody wrote:
On Thu 13/01/2022 08:49, SH wrote:
On 13/01/2022 08:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a
pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion
they can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here
would be able to comment on that.
Thanks.
yes, those twin and earth cables buried in your walls act as long
antennas and radiate outwards the signals of the powerline network.
They can affect others trying to recieve Shortwave, Medium Wave, Long
Wave and those interested in Ham or DX (distance reception)
Thetre is a person called Brian Gaff who can give you chapter and
verse.....
what I have done for my smartphones which can only use Wi Fi is to
fit some Unifi LR-AC Access points on the ceilings in various rooms
to give me good 2.4GHz and 5 GHz coverage around the house
However, you really cannot beat cabling up a house in co-ax and
ethernet...... I have well over 32 co-ax and well over 32 ethernet
sockets dotted around the house.....  Even the garage and the kitche
got the same treatment.
Better still, get a mesh system. OK they are not cheap but they do
work and use the 5GHz band for intercoms but in a part of the band
which is not normally used for wi-fi. They normally come as router
plus two or three units.
The alternative is to take some external-grade CAT5e or CAT6 up the
outside wall into the loft and then run it to where you need
connections. One way to get the cable down from the loft is inside the
airing cupboard and then under the upstairs floors.
And I actually bought some external grade ethernet cable in brown....
ran it from loft down the external and also behind a rainwater down pipe
then across wall at bottom and then into downstairs rooms :-)
On Thu 13/01/2022 18:33, SH wrote:
On 13/01/2022 16:48, Woody wrote:
On Thu 13/01/2022 08:49, SH wrote:
On 13/01/2022 08:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be
a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion
they can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here
would be able to comment on that.
Thanks.
yes, those twin and earth cables buried in your walls act as long
antennas and radiate outwards the signals of the powerline network.
They can affect others trying to recieve Shortwave, Medium Wave,
Long Wave and those interested in Ham or DX (distance reception)
Thetre is a person called Brian Gaff who can give you chapter and
verse.....
what I have done for my smartphones which can only use Wi Fi is to
fit some Unifi LR-AC Access points on the ceilings in various rooms
to give me good 2.4GHz and 5 GHz coverage around the house
However, you really cannot beat cabling up a house in co-ax and
ethernet...... I have well over 32 co-ax and well over 32 ethernet
sockets dotted around the house.....  Even the garage and the
kitche got the same treatment.
Better still, get a mesh system. OK they are not cheap but they do
work and use the 5GHz band for intercoms but in a part of the band
which is not normally used for wi-fi. They normally come as router
plus two or three units.
The alternative is to take some external-grade CAT5e or CAT6 up the
outside wall into the loft and then run it to where you need
connections. One way to get the cable down from the loft is inside
the airing cupboard and then under the upstairs floors.
And I actually bought some external grade ethernet cable in brown....
ran it from loft down the external and also behind a rainwater down
pipe then across wall at bottom and then into downstairs rooms :-)
...and it worked?
On 13/01/2022 18:39, Woody wrote:
On Thu 13/01/2022 18:33, SH wrote:
On 13/01/2022 16:48, Woody wrote:
On Thu 13/01/2022 08:49, SH wrote:
On 13/01/2022 08:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be >>>>>> a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion >>>>>> they can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here
would be able to comment on that.
Thanks.
yes, those twin and earth cables buried in your walls act as long
antennas and radiate outwards the signals of the powerline network.
They can affect others trying to recieve Shortwave, Medium Wave,
Long Wave and those interested in Ham or DX (distance reception)
Thetre is a person called Brian Gaff who can give you chapter and
verse.....
what I have done for my smartphones which can only use Wi Fi is to
fit some Unifi LR-AC Access points on the ceilings in various rooms
to give me good 2.4GHz and 5 GHz coverage around the house
However, you really cannot beat cabling up a house in co-ax and
ethernet...... I have well over 32 co-ax and well over 32 ethernet
sockets dotted around the house.....  Even the garage and the
kitche got the same treatment.
Better still, get a mesh system. OK they are not cheap but they do
work and use the 5GHz band for intercoms but in a part of the band
which is not normally used for wi-fi. They normally come as router
plus two or three units.
The alternative is to take some external-grade CAT5e or CAT6 up the
outside wall into the loft and then run it to where you need
connections. One way to get the cable down from the loft is inside
the airing cupboard and then under the upstairs floors.
And I actually bought some external grade ethernet cable in brown....
ran it from loft down the external and also behind a rainwater down
pipe then across wall at bottom and then into downstairs rooms :-)
...and it worked?
of course.......
I had a patch panel in loft so the ethernet cable was punched down into
that and then into the back of a cat5e module mounted in a faceplate...
However, you really cannot beat cabling up a house in co-ax and
ethernet...... I have well over 32 co-ax and well over 32 ethernet
sockets dotted around the house..... Even the garage and the kitche got
the same treatment.
Better still, get a mesh system. OK they are not cheap but they do work
and use the 5GHz band for intercoms but in a part of the band which is not normally used for wi-fi. They normally come as router plus two or three units.
The alternative is to take some external-grade CAT5e or CAT6 up the
outside wall into the loft and then run it to where you need connections.
One way to get the cable down from the loft is inside the airing cupboard
and then under the upstairs floors.
In article <59aa15e7eenoise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
In article <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will
be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a
suggestion they can cause RFI and I thought the combined
knowledge in here would be able to comment on that.
Yes, they will radiate RF. What we can't tell you is if you *will*
notice it having an impact on something else. Nor if any near
neighbours will encounter interference from you using it.
Bascially, it should never have been legalised.
+1
In article <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will
be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a
suggestion they can cause RFI and I thought the combined
knowledge in here would be able to comment on that.
Yes, they will radiate RF. What we can't tell you is if you *will*
notice it having an impact on something else. Nor if any near
neighbours will encounter interference from you using it.
Bascially, it should never have been legalised.
"Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message news:59aa4f40dcbob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
In article <59aa15e7eenoise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
 Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
In article <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will
be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a
suggestion they can cause RFI and I thought the combined
knowledge in here would be able to comment on that.
Yes, they will radiate RF. What we can't tell you is if you *will*
notice it having an impact on something else. Nor if any near
neighbours will encounter interference from you using it.
Bascially, it should never have been legalised.
+1
Or if it was, there should have been tighter regulation of technical standards so it avoids any fundamentals or harmonics that affect
broadcast comms or any other application which can't tolerate powerline interference I believe some devices do claim to have notch filters to
avoid MW radio 530-1300 kHz approx.
Powerline was a great idea *in theory* in that it used exsisting wiring
and so didn't require any unsightly channels to be cut in your papered
wall or floorboards to be listed to lay Cat 5+ (which is
incontrovertibly the best way to do things proving you can tolerate the
mess while it is installed).
But it causes too much interference and it has very limited usable
range. Our house is L-shaped with several ring mains: upstairs and
downstairs in one part of the house with one consumer unit. ditto for
another consumer unit fed from the same meter. But I found that power
line devices failed to communicate at more than a few tens of kbps (out
of a stated maximum of 200 Mbps) even between adjacent sockets on the
same ring main and the same consumer unit. And there was very chance if
you needed to span ring mains and none at all if you spanned CUs.
I tested with two powerline devices connected by Ethernet to two
different laptops. With them in the two sockets of a double-socket, I
got about 150 Mbps. Move one to a socket on the other side of the room (proved to be same ring main because the same MCB turns off both
sockets) and it dropped to about 50 Mbps. Move to the next room, 5 Mbps.
Move a bit further, 1 Mbps. By this stage, you've only covered a bit of
the house - there are still many more rooms to cover. I did wonder about trying for two isolated powerline networks on the two different CUs,
with a bit of Ethernet between powerlines in the two closest sockets on different CUs.
I was all set to try to run Cat 5 through the lofts (plural), with
branches feeding wifi access points to cover the various bedrooms where
we might want to use portable devices, and a proper Ethernet feed to
static computers. The we heard about mesh networking and that's what we
opted for. Still with Cat 5 to static computers in my study, and wifi
for everywhere else which tends only to access the internet, and where
faster comms between computers on my LAN are less needed.
Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote:
On Thu 13/01/2022 20:53, NY wrote:Just as a point of information, my mesh network sustains my Virgin Media 200Mbit/sec data rate all over my house.
"Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:59aa4f40dcbob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
In article <59aa15e7eenoise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
 Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
In article <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will
be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a
suggestion they can cause RFI and I thought the combined
knowledge in here would be able to comment on that.
Yes, they will radiate RF. What we can't tell you is if you *will*
notice it having an impact on something else. Nor if any near
neighbours will encounter interference from you using it.
Bascially, it should never have been legalised.
+1
Or if it was, there should have been tighter regulation of technical
standards so it avoids any fundamentals or harmonics that affect
broadcast comms or any other application which can't tolerate powerline
interference I believe some devices do claim to have notch filters to
avoid MW radio 530-1300 kHz approx.
Powerline was a great idea *in theory* in that it used exsisting wiring
and so didn't require any unsightly channels to be cut in your papered
wall or floorboards to be listed to lay Cat 5+ (which is
incontrovertibly the best way to do things proving you can tolerate the
mess while it is installed).
But it causes too much interference and it has very limited usable
range. Our house is L-shaped with several ring mains: upstairs and
downstairs in one part of the house with one consumer unit. ditto for
another consumer unit fed from the same meter. But I found that power
line devices failed to communicate at more than a few tens of kbps (out
of a stated maximum of 200 Mbps) even between adjacent sockets on the
same ring main and the same consumer unit. And there was very chance if
you needed to span ring mains and none at all if you spanned CUs.
I tested with two powerline devices connected by Ethernet to two
different laptops. With them in the two sockets of a double-socket, I
got about 150 Mbps. Move one to a socket on the other side of the room
(proved to be same ring main because the same MCB turns off both
sockets) and it dropped to about 50 Mbps. Move to the next room, 5 Mbps. >>> Move a bit further, 1 Mbps. By this stage, you've only covered a bit of
the house - there are still many more rooms to cover. I did wonder about >>> trying for two isolated powerline networks on the two different CUs,
with a bit of Ethernet between powerlines in the two closest sockets on
different CUs.
I was all set to try to run Cat 5 through the lofts (plural), with
branches feeding wifi access points to cover the various bedrooms where
we might want to use portable devices, and a proper Ethernet feed to
static computers. The we heard about mesh networking and that's what we
opted for. Still with Cat 5 to static computers in my study, and wifi
for everywhere else which tends only to access the internet, and where
faster comms between computers on my LAN are less needed.
I could only comment that you must have been using the wrong type of
powerline unit. I have a couple of 600Mb TP-Link units. One is connected
to my source router adjacent to the VM superhub configured as a modem -
this on the downstairs ring; I have tried a 'receiver' on the upstairs
ring at the other end of the house and from an incoming source typically
about 110Mb I was getting well in excess of 50Mb upstairs. I then tried
connection to my shed: this is from a different power box in the
(built-in) garage so the meeting point of the rings is actually at the
meter termination, whence it runs by about 30m of 1.5mm armoured cable
to the shed and onto a spur feed there - I recorded 37Mb at that location. >>
I too am a radio amateur and have found no RFI on my receivers whatsoever. >>
On Thu 13/01/2022 20:53, NY wrote:
"Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message
news:59aa4f40dcbob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
In article <59aa15e7eenoise@audiomisc.co.uk>,
 Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
In article <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net>, Jeff Gaines
<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will
be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a
suggestion they can cause RFI and I thought the combined
knowledge in here would be able to comment on that.
Yes, they will radiate RF. What we can't tell you is if you *will*
notice it having an impact on something else. Nor if any near
neighbours will encounter interference from you using it.
Bascially, it should never have been legalised.
+1
Or if it was, there should have been tighter regulation of technical
standards so it avoids any fundamentals or harmonics that affect
broadcast comms or any other application which can't tolerate powerline
interference I believe some devices do claim to have notch filters to
avoid MW radio 530-1300 kHz approx.
Powerline was a great idea *in theory* in that it used exsisting wiring
and so didn't require any unsightly channels to be cut in your papered
wall or floorboards to be listed to lay Cat 5+ (which is
incontrovertibly the best way to do things proving you can tolerate the
mess while it is installed).
But it causes too much interference and it has very limited usable
range. Our house is L-shaped with several ring mains: upstairs and
downstairs in one part of the house with one consumer unit. ditto for
another consumer unit fed from the same meter. But I found that power
line devices failed to communicate at more than a few tens of kbps (out
of a stated maximum of 200 Mbps) even between adjacent sockets on the
same ring main and the same consumer unit. And there was very chance if
you needed to span ring mains and none at all if you spanned CUs.
I tested with two powerline devices connected by Ethernet to two
different laptops. With them in the two sockets of a double-socket, I
got about 150 Mbps. Move one to a socket on the other side of the room
(proved to be same ring main because the same MCB turns off both
sockets) and it dropped to about 50 Mbps. Move to the next room, 5 Mbps.
Move a bit further, 1 Mbps. By this stage, you've only covered a bit of
the house - there are still many more rooms to cover. I did wonder about
trying for two isolated powerline networks on the two different CUs,
with a bit of Ethernet between powerlines in the two closest sockets on
different CUs.
I was all set to try to run Cat 5 through the lofts (plural), with
branches feeding wifi access points to cover the various bedrooms where
we might want to use portable devices, and a proper Ethernet feed to
static computers. The we heard about mesh networking and that's what we
opted for. Still with Cat 5 to static computers in my study, and wifi
for everywhere else which tends only to access the internet, and where
faster comms between computers on my LAN are less needed.
I could only comment that you must have been using the wrong type of powerline unit. I have a couple of 600Mb TP-Link units. One is connected
to my source router adjacent to the VM superhub configured as a modem -
this on the downstairs ring; I have tried a 'receiver' on the upstairs
ring at the other end of the house and from an incoming source typically about 110Mb I was getting well in excess of 50Mb upstairs. I then tried connection to my shed: this is from a different power box in the
(built-in) garage so the meeting point of the rings is actually at the
meter termination, whence it runs by about 30m of 1.5mm armoured cable
to the shed and onto a spur feed there - I recorded 37Mb at that location.
I too am a radio amateur and have found no RFI on my receivers whatsoever.
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
Thanks.
--
Jeff Gaines Wiltshire UK
If it's not broken, mess around with it until it is
On Thu 13/01/2022 08:49, SH wrote:
On 13/01/2022 08:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a
pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able >>> to comment on that.
Thanks.
yes, those twin and earth cables buried in your walls act as long
antennas and radiate outwards the signals of the powerline network.
They can affect others trying to recieve Shortwave, Medium Wave, Long
Wave and those interested in Ham or DX (distance reception)
Thetre is a person called Brian Gaff who can give you chapter and
verse.....
what I have done for my smartphones which can only use Wi Fi is to fit
some Unifi LR-AC Access points on the ceilings in various rooms to give
me good 2.4GHz and 5 GHz coverage around the house
However, you really cannot beat cabling up a house in co-ax and
ethernet...... I have well over 32 co-ax and well over 32 ethernet
sockets dotted around the house..... Even the garage and the kitche got
the same treatment.
Better still, get a mesh system. OK they are not cheap but they do work
and use the 5GHz band for intercoms but in a part of the band which is not normally used for wi-fi. They normally come as router plus two or three units.
The alternative is to take some external-grade CAT5e or CAT6 up the
outside wall into the loft and then run it to where you need connections.
One way to get the cable down from the loft is inside the airing cupboard
and then under the upstairs floors.
On 13/01/2022 16:48, Woody wrote:
On Thu 13/01/2022 08:49, SH wrote:
On 13/01/2022 08:41, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I am moving in to a new (to me) house and wiring a network will be a
pain.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they >>>> can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be
able to comment on that.
Thanks.
yes, those twin and earth cables buried in your walls act as long
antennas and radiate outwards the signals of the powerline network.
They can affect others trying to recieve Shortwave, Medium Wave, Long
Wave and those interested in Ham or DX (distance reception)
Thetre is a person called Brian Gaff who can give you chapter and
verse.....
what I have done for my smartphones which can only use Wi Fi is to fit
some Unifi LR-AC Access points on the ceilings in various rooms to give
me good 2.4GHz and 5 GHz coverage around the house
However, you really cannot beat cabling up a house in co-ax and
ethernet...... I have well over 32 co-ax and well over 32 ethernet
sockets dotted around the house..... Even the garage and the kitche got
the same treatment.
Better still, get a mesh system. OK they are not cheap but they do work
and use the 5GHz band for intercoms but in a part of the band which is
not normally used for wi-fi. They normally come as router plus two or
three units.
The alternative is to take some external-grade CAT5e or CAT6 up the
outside wall into the loft and then run it to where you need connections.
One way to get the cable down from the loft is inside the airing cupboard
and then under the upstairs floors.
And I actually bought some external grade ethernet cable in brown.... ran
it from loft down the external and also behind a rainwater down pipe then across wall at bottom and then into downstairs rooms :-)
I could only comment that you must have been using the wrong type of powerline unit. I have a couple of 600Mb TP-Link units. One is connected
to my source router adjacent to the VM superhub configured as a modem -
this on the downstairs ring; I have tried a 'receiver' on the upstairs
ring at the other end of the house and from an incoming source typically about 110Mb I was getting well in excess of 50Mb upstairs. I then tried connection to my shed: this is from a different power box in the
(built-in) garage so the meeting point of the rings is actually at the
meter termination, whence it runs by about 30m of 1.5mm armoured cable to
the shed and onto a spur feed there - I recorded 37Mb at that location.
I too am a radio amateur and have found no RFI on my receivers whatsoever.
On Thu, 13 Jan 2022 13:39:11 +0000, Indy Jess John <bathwatchdog@OMITTHISgooglemail.com> wrote:
+1 to running CAT5e ethernet via the outside from my office to the
I eventually ran a long (50 metre) Cat5e ethernet cable upstairs and put
an 8-port ethernet switch on the end of it to regenerate any losses from >>the long cable and that worked perfectly. The powerlines are now back
in their box, and I have used another of the ports off the upstairs
switch for a NAS device because I had the flexibility to do that.
attic where there is a switch, the DVR and a Synology NAS, and PoE
CCTV cameras connected to the switch.
A few years ago, when I had some work done in the hall which included
the installation of laminate flooring, I took the opportunity to run
more CAT5e from the office, under the laminate floor, to CAT5e and
RJ45 sockets in the the hall and the integral garage.
Lasy year I installed a pair of https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B0939VVZZ8, one in the office and
one in the attic. Subjectively, connecting the DVR to ports 9 or 10
result in in it displaying the CCTV noticeably faster than when I used Netgear switches.
Yes if you have anyone who o likes to listen to short waves or weaker stations of any kind, they are a menace and should have been killed at
birth. The problem is that due to the fact they use house wiring which was never intended to keep in RF, they most certainly radiate. Think about the bandwidth used by your internet or local network, and superimpose that on
the frequencies from about 3MHz upwards. Ofcom only require the vendors to put notches in for the radio ham bands, not the international broadcast bands. The interference manifest itself as various whining noises superimposed onto a ticking that sounds like an old car which had no suppression with a fast tick over.
OK there are many other devices around the home that also radiate rfi, like switch mode wall warts, TVs and even microwaves, but none of these intentionally create huge signals on the wiring. They need to be quite powerful to get around the losses inherent in a system with lots of other things attached to it, and so we are left with a mess.
It used to be quite fun listening around the short waves for all sorts of users, but now, sadly its almost impossible unless you move well away from any buildings and often any mains supply, and use batteries.
Brian
Yes if you have anyone who o likes to listen to short waves or weaker stations of any kind, they are a menace and should have been killed atWell, overhead phone cables were never intended to carry RF either, but
birth. The problem is that due to the fact they use house wiring which was never intended to keep in RF, they most certainly radiate.
"Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:srrao7$89i$1@dont-email.me...
[snip: my account of spectacularly poor data transfer dates with Powerline]
I could only comment that you must have been using the wrong type of
powerline unit. I have a couple of 600Mb TP-Link units. One is connected
to my source router adjacent to the VM superhub configured as a modem -
this on the downstairs ring; I have tried a 'receiver' on the upstairs
ring at the other end of the house and from an incoming source typically
about 110Mb I was getting well in excess of 50Mb upstairs. I then tried
connection to my shed: this is from a different power box in the
(built-in) garage so the meeting point of the rings is actually at the
meter termination, whence it runs by about 30m of 1.5mm armoured cable to
the shed and onto a spur feed there - I recorded 37Mb at that location.
I too am a radio amateur and have found no RFI on my receivers whatsoever.
I had been using a pair of WD Livewire (*) devices at our old house (2 ring mains, one CU - nice and simple) to get Ethernet from the router to a TV or PVR which only had Ethernet and no wifi. It gave perfectly good results, though I forget what speed.
I tried those in our new house, and also a pair of Dlink DHP-500AV devices for comparison, and in both cases the results were dramatically worse. In both cases I was using like with like, rather than Dlink talking to WD.
I can only think that there is something about the wiring in our house which spoils the Powerline signal. I can understand that going from one ring main to another *might* cause extra denaturing of the signal, and going from one CU to the other will probably cause more of it, but I don't see why two sockets about 20 feet apart on the same ring main should be *so* bad.
It's the first time I've had such severe problems with Powerline.
When I can find an AM radio and power it up, I'll plug the devices in and
see whether I can detect any interference in the LW or MW band that is attributable to Powerline. I can't test the effect on amateur radio bands.
There’s so many poorly designed switched mode power supplies
Back to power adaptors. Never used them myself, but in sorting out
others I've discovered they don't work well when plugged into 'flying
lead' extension blocks.
Try to use them plugged into the actual wall socket.
"Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:srrao7$89i$1@dont-email.me...
[snip: my account of spectacularly poor data transfer dates with Powerline]
I could only comment that you must have been using the wrong type of powerline unit. I have a couple of 600Mb TP-Link units. One is connected
to my source router adjacent to the VM superhub configured as a modem - this on the downstairs ring; I have tried a 'receiver' on the upstairs
ring at the other end of the house and from an incoming source typically about 110Mb I was getting well in excess of 50Mb upstairs. I then tried connection to my shed: this is from a different power box in the
(built-in) garage so the meeting point of the rings is actually at the meter termination, whence it runs by about 30m of 1.5mm armoured cable to the shed and onto a spur feed there - I recorded 37Mb at that location.
I too am a radio amateur and have found no RFI on my receivers whatsoever.
I had been using a pair of WD Livewire (*) devices at our old house (2 ring mains, one CU - nice and simple) to get Ethernet from the router to a TV or PVR which only had Ethernet and no wifi. It gave perfectly good results, though I forget what speed.
I tried those in our new house, and also a pair of Dlink DHP-500AV devices for comparison, and in both cases the results were dramatically worse. In both cases I was using like with like, rather than Dlink talking to WD.
I can only think that there is something about the wiring in our house which spoils the Powerline signal. I can understand that going from one ring main to another *might* cause extra denaturing of the signal, and going from one CU to the other will probably cause more of it, but I don't see why two sockets about 20 feet apart on the same ring main should be *so* bad.
It's the first time I've had such severe problems with Powerline.
Well, overhead phone cables were never intended to carry RF either, but
they do thanks to ADSL etc.
On 14/01/2022 10:16, Mark Carver wrote:
Well, overhead phone cables were never intended to carry RF either,
but they do thanks to ADSL etc.
Overhead phone cables are designed to suppress audio frequency
interference, which means they are well balanced, including using
twisted pairs.
Another oddity of powerline networks is that at least around here, some manage to also work two houses down the street but not in the in between houses. I would imagine this means that the signals are not getting to the phases of the mains on the intervening properties. When there used to be analogue wireless intercoms plugged into the mains, the same effect could
be seen, so watch it with older baby monitors.
The instructions with them do always say that they should be plugged
in direct to a wall socket. Putting my electronics/electrical
engineering hat on I can't think of any good reason why this should be
so though.
Thinking aloud....
Extension leads use flex rather than solid cable, modern mains
cable (i.e. the house wiring behind the wall socket) is just about
universally 2.5sqmm single solid conductor. Maybe multistrand
flex radiates more than single solid, though in principle stranded
should be better for RF as higher frequencies travel on the
surface of the wire (hence the use of Litz wire for coils etc.)
House wiring cable keeps the conductors at a pretty much fixed
distance apart which will present a fairly consistent impedance.
Do powerline devices depend on this (approximately) fixed
impedance? Extension leads will have a different (and less
consistent) inter-conductor spacing.
It might be interesting to try this out. Simply get a pair of
powerline devices and connect them via a pair of sockets on the ends
of lengths of different types of wire. Do they only work well when
all of the cable from one to the other is 2.5sqmm T&E?
It *may* be because we have an 'all RCBO' consumer unit and it is
quite a big house so cable runs are quite long. We're also a TT installation, though I really can't see how this would affect it.
In article <srrbvm$eub$1@dont-email.me>,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Just as a point of information, my mesh network sustains my Virgin
Media 200Mbit/sec data rate all over my house.
May I ask what that mesh network is?
Thanks.
Bob.
In article <srrbvm$eub$1@dont-email.me>,
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Just as a point of information, my mesh network sustains my Virgin
Media 200Mbit/sec data rate all over my house.
May I ask what that mesh network is?
On 14/01/2022 11:16, Bob Latham wrote:
In article <srrbvm$eub$1@dont-email.me>,Bumped in the hope of an answer.
   Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Just as a point of information, my mesh network sustains my Virgin
Media 200Mbit/sec data rate all over my house.
May I ask what that mesh network is?
Thanks.
Bob.
I am happy to swop my powerline for mesh but need to know which
particular brand/model is the best.
Given the OP says wiring will be a pain I assume Ethernet cable is not an option. I’d second the recommendation for a mesh network. You need a 3 radio per unit version. 2.5 and 5GHz plus an additional hidden 5GHz that links the units together. I have a Linksys Velop system and it works well.
If the house has a wooden upstairs floor place the units upstairs and let them shine down into the ground floor. Wood is pretty transparent to RF.
On 13/01/2022 in message <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion
they can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would
be able to comment on that.
Just to say thank you to everybody for all the input/discussion :-)
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
Just as a point of information, my mesh network sustains my Virgin
Media 200Mbit/sec data rate all over my house.
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
When I can find an AM radio and power it up, I'll plug the devices in and
see whether I can detect any interference in the LW or MW band that is
attributable to Powerline. I can't test the effect on amateur radio bands. >>
The problems I’ve found with power line adapters is interference from other >devices plugged in. A simple test will show a respectable throughput, but >long term you get periodic dropouts, when fridge motors, washing machines
etc start up. The link does recover, but it’s not ideal for the likes of >video calls.
"Chris Green" <cl@isbd.net> wrote in message news:do18bi-7k9l.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu...
The instructions with them do always say that they should be plugged
in direct to a wall socket. Putting my electronics/electrical
engineering hat on I can't think of any good reason why this should be
so though.
Thinking aloud....
Extension leads use flex rather than solid cable, modern mains
cable (i.e. the house wiring behind the wall socket) is just about
universally 2.5sqmm single solid conductor. Maybe multistrand
flex radiates more than single solid, though in principle stranded
should be better for RF as higher frequencies travel on the
surface of the wire (hence the use of Litz wire for coils etc.)
House wiring cable keeps the conductors at a pretty much fixed
distance apart which will present a fairly consistent impedance.
Do powerline devices depend on this (approximately) fixed
impedance? Extension leads will have a different (and less
consistent) inter-conductor spacing.
It might be interesting to try this out. Simply get a pair of
powerline devices and connect them via a pair of sockets on the ends
of lengths of different types of wire. Do they only work well when
all of the cable from one to the other is 2.5sqmm T&E?
Did that once. I compared:
- two sockets on the same extension block
- one socket on extension, other on adjacent wall socket, both connected to same dual-socket A
- one on extension, one on nearby socket B on same ring main
- one on wall socket A and one on wall socket B
This was for a four-way extension with about 6 feet of cable.
I didn't notice a significant difference with a simple extension, but there was a noticeable reduction for all but the first case if the extension had mains-spike suppressors.
On 14/01/2022 10:12, Tweed wrote:
There’s so many poorly designed switched mode power supplies
Most are well designed, but the components that implement the
interference are removed during the production engineering, after the >original design has been certification tested.
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 10:35:19 +0000, David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
On 14/01/2022 10:12, Tweed wrote:
There’s so many poorly designed switched mode power supplies
Most are well designed, but the components that implement the
interference are removed during the production engineering, after the
original design has been certification tested.
I would expect the ones in powerline type devices are better designed
than most, because they'd have to be, otherwise they'd interfere with
their own working. My own (admittedly limited) experiments with a
portable shortwave radio suggests that anything with a switch mode
power supply, or a digital display, or a screen, or any combination of
the above, is likely to be a worse offender than any powerline device.
Rod.
On 13/01/2022 in message <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
Just to say thank you to everybody for all the input/discussion :-)
"Bob Latham" <bob@sick-of-spam.invalid> wrote in message news:59aa4f40dcbob@sick-of-spam.invalid...
In article <59aa15e7eenoise@audiomisc.co.uk>, Jim Lesurf
<noise@audiomisc.co.uk> wrote:
Yes, they will radiate RF. What we can't tell you is if you *will*
notice it having an impact on something else. Nor if any near
neighbours will encounter interference from you using it.
Bascially, it should never have been legalised.
+1
Or if it was, there should have been tighter regulation of technical standards so it avoids any fundamentals or harmonics that affect
broadcast comms or any other application which can't tolerate powerline interference I believe some devices do claim to have notch filters to
avoid MW radio 530-1300 kHz approx.
On 13/01/2022 in message <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
Just to say thank you to everybody for all the input/discussion :-)
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
I could only comment that you must have been using the wrong type of powerline unit. I have a couple of 600Mb TP-Link units. One is connected
to my source router adjacent to the VM superhub configured as a modem -
this on the downstairs ring; I have tried a 'receiver' on the upstairs
ring at the other end of the house and from an incoming source typically about 110Mb I was getting well in excess of 50Mb upstairs. I then tried connection to my shed: this is from a different power box in the
(built-in) garage so the meeting point of the rings is actually at the
meter termination, whence it runs by about 30m of 1.5mm armoured cable
to the shed and onto a spur feed there - I recorded 37Mb at that
location.
I too am a radio amateur and have found no RFI on my receivers
whatsoever.
(*) Is it 415 V between phases when there is 240 V phase-to-neutral?
Did that once. I compared:But in none of those cases does the powerline network offer any
- two sockets on the same extension block
- one socket on extension, other on adjacent wall socket, both connected
to
same dual-socket A
- one on extension, one on nearby socket B on same ring main
- one on wall socket A and one on wall socket B
This was for a four-way extension with about 6 feet of cable.
advantage does it, they'd all work virtually perfectly using WiFi.
I didn't notice a significant difference with a simple extension, but
there
was a noticeable reduction for all but the first case if the extension
had
mains-spike suppressors.
To be any use to me powerline would have to work between sockets that
are ten metres or more apart, that's the sort of length of Cat5 cable
I'm using to feed my APs.
Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it
though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
Yes, TP-Link make some reasonably priced outdoor APs which can be used
in pairs to talk to each other to provide a 'bridge'. Models such as
the TL-WA5210G and TL-WA7210N can do it. However these are rather old models, I'm sure there are newer. I expect there are indoor devices
to to the same as well.
On Fri, 14 Jan 2022 11:12:39 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
(*) Is it 415 V between phases when there is 240 V phase-to-neutral?
Multiply by the square root of three, so yes, more or less.
On 13/01/2022 18:54, Tweed wrote:
Given the OP says wiring will be a pain I assume Ethernet cable is not an
option. I’d second the recommendation for a mesh network. You need a 3
radio per unit version. 2.5 and 5GHz plus an additional hidden 5GHz that
links the units together. I have a Linksys Velop system and it works
well.
If the house has a wooden upstairs floor place the units upstairs and let
them shine down into the ground floor. Wood is pretty transparent to RF.
How many Linksys Velop units would you expect to need to cover a 2,000 sq
ft Victorian apartement?
"Brian Gaff (Sofa)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:srri4i$ks1$1@dont-email.me...
Another oddity of powerline networks is that at least around here,
some manage to also work two houses down the street but not in the in
between houses. I would imagine this means that the signals are not
getting to the phases of the mains on the intervening properties.
When there used to be analogue wireless intercoms plugged into the
mains, the same effect could be seen, so watch it with older baby
monitors.
Yes I think successive houses are often wired on successive phases, so
houses 1, 7, 13 will all be on one phase, and 3, 9, 15 will be on
another, and 5, 11, 17 will be on the third. Assuming houses are
numbered odds on one side, evens on the opposite side.
I remember our server-room at work was (for some reason) wired with
different phases on each leg of the capital E layout of benches. There
were big signs on each bench saying which phase it used, and even
bigger signs warning people not to connect equipment (eg by RS-232) on
two benches - which was a real nuisance if you brought in a piece of equipment to be used temporarily and the only spare mains sockets were
on the wrong bench.
"Woody" <harrogate3@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:srrao7$89i$1@dont-email.me...
[snip: my account of spectacularly poor data transfer dates with Powerline]
I could only comment that you must have been using the wrong type of powerline unit. I have a couple of 600Mb TP-Link units. One is connected
to my source router adjacent to the VM superhub configured as a modem - this on the downstairs ring; I have tried a 'receiver' on the upstairs
ring at the other end of the house and from an incoming source typically about 110Mb I was getting well in excess of 50Mb upstairs. I then tried connection to my shed: this is from a different power box in the
(built-in) garage so the meeting point of the rings is actually at the meter termination, whence it runs by about 30m of 1.5mm armoured cable to the shed and onto a spur feed there - I recorded 37Mb at that location.
I too am a radio amateur and have found no RFI on my receivers whatsoever.
I had been using a pair of WD Livewire (*) devices at our old house (2 ring mains, one CU - nice and simple) to get Ethernet from the router to a TV or PVR which only had Ethernet and no wifi. It gave perfectly good results, though I forget what speed.
I tried those in our new house, and also a pair of Dlink DHP-500AV devices for comparison, and in both cases the results were dramatically worse. In both cases I was using like with like, rather than Dlink talking to WD.
I can only think that there is something about the wiring in our house which spoils the Powerline signal. I can understand that going from one ring main to another *might* cause extra denaturing of the signal, and going from one CU to the other will probably cause more of it, but I don't see why two sockets about 20 feet apart on the same ring main should be *so* bad.
It's the first time I've had such severe problems with Powerline.
When I can find an AM radio and power it up, I'll plug the devices in and
see whether I can detect any interference in the LW or MW band that is attributable to Powerline. I can't test the effect on amateur radio bands.
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
I found that switched mode PSUs (wall warts) electrical noise could
seriously degrade data speed on my homeplug setup. Now I ensure that
all my wall warts are plugged into a filtered power socket strip to
prevent that interference reaching the ring main. Since doing so I get acceptable data speed (~35 Mb/s) from one end of the house to the other.
On 14/01/2022 12:03, Jeff Gaines wrote:
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs
it though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
My openWRT router seems to offer the option of connecting in client
mode, so I imagine the hardware on most WiFi routers would support this,
with the right firmware and configuration.
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Back to power adaptors. Never used them myself, but in sorting out
others I've discovered they don't work well when plugged into 'flying
lead' extension blocks. Try to use them plugged into the actual wall socket.
The instructions with them do always say that they should be plugged in direct to a wall socket. Putting my electronics/electrical engineering
hat on I can't think of any good reason why this should be so though.
It might be interesting to try this out. Simply get a pair of powerline devices and connect them via a pair of sockets on the ends of lengths of different types of wire. Do they only work well when all of the cable
from one to the other is 2.5sqmm T&E?
I didn't notice a significant difference with a simple extension, but
there was a noticeable reduction for all but the first case if the
extension had mains-spike suppressors.
SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
I wrote:
I found that switched mode PSUs (wall warts) electrical noise could
seriously degrade data speed on my homeplug setup. Now I ensure that
all my wall warts are plugged into a filtered power socket strip to
prevent that interference reaching the ring main. Since doing so I get
acceptable data speed (~35 Mb/s) from one end of the house to the other. >>>
35 Mb/s is "acceptable"???
not once you have:
2 or more kids watching You Tube / netflix / Disney on their devices
or you're downloading an ISO such as a 4.6 GB Ubuntu 20.04 , that would
take hours....
Or you're copying to/from a NAS.... which would take hours
Or you're streaming and watching a 4K video like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXb3EKWsInQ
and right click on the video and click on stats for Nerds, for me that
peaks at 55 MB/s with no dropped frames on a R9 graphics card and 54%
CPU load.
35Mb/s is very acceptable when ones FTTC connection maxes out at 50Mb/s.
I'm sure I could improve on 35 Mb/s with modern Homeplugs if I needed
to, mine are ~6 years old.
My main AP is right next to the modem and NAS so it benefits from full
speed. My secondary AP is fed by the Homeplug and serves only the
lounge. The demand on that AP is at most two machines streaming HD
video and backing up to NAS simultaneously; I find 35Mb/s is more than
enough for that. I don't usually download a 4.6 GB Ubuntu 20.04 more frequently than once a week.
I wrote:
I found that switched mode PSUs (wall warts) electrical noise could seriously degrade data speed on my homeplug setup. Now I ensure that
all my wall warts are plugged into a filtered power socket strip to
prevent that interference reaching the ring main. Since doing so I get acceptable data speed (~35 Mb/s) from one end of the house to the other.
35 Mb/s is "acceptable"???
not once you have:
2 or more kids watching You Tube / netflix / Disney on their devices
or you're downloading an ISO such as a 4.6 GB Ubuntu 20.04 , that would
take hours....
Or you're copying to/from a NAS.... which would take hours
Or you're streaming and watching a 4K video like:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXb3EKWsInQ
and right click on the video and click on stats for Nerds, for me that
peaks at 55 MB/s with no dropped frames on a R9 graphics card and 54%
CPU load.
Or you're streaming and watching a 4K video like:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXb3EKWsInQ>
and right click on the video and click on stats for Nerds, for me that
peaks at 55 MB/s with no dropped frames on a R9 graphics card and 54%
CPU load.
"Tony Gamble" <tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote in message news:j4d698Fq9v1U1@mid.individual.net...
On 13/01/2022 18:54, Tweed wrote:
Given the OP says wiring will be a pain I assume Ethernet cable is
not an
option. I’d second the recommendation for a mesh network. You need a 3 >>> radio per unit version. 2.5 and 5GHz plus an additional hidden 5GHz that >>> links the units together. I have a Linksys Velop system and it works
well.
If the house has a wooden upstairs floor place the units upstairs and
let
them shine down into the ground floor. Wood is pretty transparent to RF. >>>
How many Linksys Velop units would you expect to need to cover a 2,000 sq
ft Victorian apartement?
When you say "apartment", does that imply that it's all on one level?
On 14/01/2022 13:20, NY wrote:
"Tony Gamble" <tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote in messageYes. All one level but particularly thick brick internal walls.
news:j4d698Fq9v1U1@mid.individual.net...
On 13/01/2022 18:54, Tweed wrote:
Given the OP says wiring will be a pain I assume Ethernet cable is
not an
option. I’d second the recommendation for a mesh network. You need a 3 >>>> radio per unit version. 2.5 and 5GHz plus an additional hidden 5GHz that >>>> links the units together. I have a Linksys Velop system and it works
well.
If the house has a wooden upstairs floor place the units upstairs and
let
them shine down into the ground floor. Wood is pretty transparent to RF. >>>>
How many Linksys Velop units would you expect to need to cover a 2,000 sq >>> ft Victorian apartement?
When you say "apartment", does that imply that it's all on one level?
My router is in a corridor.
The rooms where I need the internet are each a good 20 metres away from it.
In one I need a proper wired feed for two devices - Humax and Shield -
plus wifi for computers/phones/tablets.
So I am talking about a prime unit to take a feed from my router and
then two wifi feeds and two hard wire feeds. I guess that commits me to
five bits of kit.
But the question is whether my 20 metres and solid brick Victorian walls
will stifle the signal? I am not sure how I try without making the commitment.
Tony
SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
[...]
Or you're streaming and watching a 4K video like:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXb3EKWsInQ>
and right click on the video and click on stats for Nerds, for me that
peaks at 55 MB/s with no dropped frames on a R9 graphics card and 54%
CPU load.
[...]
I forgot to say thanks for the link, that video looks very nice here in
HDR 4K. I must admit it did buffer once or twice at that resolution,
it's smoother at 1440p60 HDR and looks nearly as good. I'm looking
forward to FTTP, though, you can never have too much bandwidth.
"g8dgc" <g8dgc.2@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1pls39l.u41hgr1rcoq8hN%g8dgc.2@gmail.com...
SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
[...]
Or you're streaming and watching a 4K video like:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXb3EKWsInQ>
and right click on the video and click on stats for Nerds, for me that
peaks at 55 MB/s with no dropped frames on a R9 graphics card and 54%
CPU load.
[...]
I forgot to say thanks for the link, that video looks very nice here in
HDR 4K. I must admit it did buffer once or twice at that resolution,
it's smoother at 1440p60 HDR and looks nearly as good. I'm looking
forward to FTTP, though, you can never have too much bandwidth.
It shows my connection speed as around 20 Mbps and data transfers about
every 5 seconds, so not very intensive data transfer. I don't see any
stats about dropped frames, but subjectively I'd say it was dropping a
frame or so every second which may be a PC issue rather than a
data-transfer one. PC is Athlon II X4 630 with 8 GB RAM (RAM usage
stayed at about 50% of total) and Asus EAH5450 graphics at 1920x1080x50 Hz.
Interesting that the video says it's UHD but it's only 1920x1080 which I think of as being normal HD.
On 14/01/2022 16:16, NY wrote:
"g8dgc" <g8dgc.2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1pls39l.u41hgr1rcoq8hN%g8dgc.2@gmail.com...
SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
[...]
Or you're streaming and watching a 4K video like:
<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXb3EKWsInQ>
and right click on the video and click on stats for Nerds, for me that >>>> peaks at 55 MB/s with no dropped frames on a R9 graphics card and 54%
CPU load.
[...]
I forgot to say thanks for the link, that video looks very nice here in
HDR 4K. I must admit it did buffer once or twice at that resolution,
it's smoother at 1440p60 HDR and looks nearly as good. I'm looking
forward to FTTP, though, you can never have too much bandwidth.
It shows my connection speed as around 20 Mbps and data transfers
about every 5 seconds, so not very intensive data transfer. I don't
see any stats about dropped frames, but subjectively I'd say it was
dropping a frame or so every second which may be a PC issue rather
than a data-transfer one. PC is Athlon II X4 630 with 8 GB RAM (RAM
usage stayed at about 50% of total) and Asus EAH5450 graphics at
1920x1080x50 Hz.
Interesting that the video says it's UHD but it's only 1920x1080 which
I think of as being normal HD.
thats because even though the is un UHD, your PC cannot (yet) support 4K
so it got downscaled to a resolution that your mobo, CPU and graphics
can support.
You also need a 4k monitor too on display port or USB-C (HDMI support is
also possible in some circumstances but without HDR.)
On 14/01/2022 16:16, NY wrote:
It shows my connection speed as around 20 Mbps and data transfers
about every 5 seconds, so not very intensive data transfer. I don't
see any stats about dropped frames, but subjectively I'd say it was
dropping a frame or so every second which may be a PC issue rather
than a data-transfer one. PC is Athlon II X4 630 with 8 GB RAM (RAM
usage stayed at about 50% of total) and Asus EAH5450 graphics at
1920x1080x50 Hz.
Interesting that the video says it's UHD but it's only 1920x1080 which
I think of as being normal HD.
thats because even though the is un UHD, your PC cannot (yet) support 4K
so it got downscaled to a resolution that your mobo, CPU and graphics
can support.
You also need a 4k monitor too on display port or USB-C (HDMI support is
also possible in some circumstances but without HDR.)
On 14/01/2022 17:18, Tweed wrote:
Buy a proper mesh network. I’ve messed around with all sorts of WiFi
extenders and bridges over the years. Mesh network kit works properly and
can be easily added to if need be. The nodes are designed to either use
5GHz or wired Ethernet as backhaul. So if you can run a mix and match,
useful if you can get an Ethernet cable to a node. As regards outside, I’ve
put my nodes on the window sill both at the back and front of the house. I >> can easily get connection 150 metres distant. It works a lot more reliably >> and faster than a power line link I had.
Why, when my existing system is perfectly adequate, and cost me nothing except the time to flash the firmware of an old router and to learn how
to configure it?
Buy a proper mesh network. I’ve messed around with all sorts of WiFi extenders and bridges over the years. Mesh network kit works properly and
can be easily added to if need be. The nodes are designed to either use
5GHz or wired Ethernet as backhaul. So if you can run a mix and match,
useful if you can get an Ethernet cable to a node. As regards outside, I’ve put my nodes on the window sill both at the back and front of the house. I can easily get connection 150 metres distant. It works a lot more reliably and faster than a power line link I had.
Tony Gamble <tonygamble@compuserve.com> wrote:
But the question is whether my 20 metres and solid brick Victorian walls
will stifle the signal? I am not sure how I try without making the
commitment.
If you have the existing router up and running and it does 5GHz you can wander round with a portable device and get a feeling for how well 5GHz propagates around your property.
On 14/01/2022 12:58, Chris Green wrote:
Jeff Gaines <jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it
though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
Yes, TP-Link make some reasonably priced outdoor APs which can be used
in pairs to talk to each other to provide a 'bridge'. Models such as
the TL-WA5210G and TL-WA7210N can do it. However these are rather old
models, I'm sure there are newer. I expect there are indoor devices
to to the same as well.
I've put a DD-WRT build on a couple of Cisco WRT320Ns, and they can work
in client-bridge mode. Currently one is spare and I'm only actually
using one of them, in my bedroom to connect it to the rest of the LAN,
the rest of which is cabled. Mostly it's worked pretty well, though
there is some dependency on what the source of the WiFi connection is.
When my router was a DrayTek, ISTR some gotchas, though I'd have to cast around for previous posts to recall them now. My current router is a
BTHH5a with an OpenWRT build, and that is problem free, everything I've
tried works exactly as it should.
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 14/01/2022 17:18, Tweed wrote:
Buy a proper mesh network. I’ve messed around with all sorts of WiFi
extenders and bridges over the years. Mesh network kit works properly and >>> can be easily added to if need be. The nodes are designed to either use
5GHz or wired Ethernet as backhaul. So if you can run a mix and match,
useful if you can get an Ethernet cable to a node. As regards outside, I’ve
put my nodes on the window sill both at the back and front of the house. I >>> can easily get connection 150 metres distant. It works a lot more reliably >>> and faster than a power line link I had.
Why, when my existing system is perfectly adequate, and cost me nothing
except the time to flash the firmware of an old router and to learn how
to configure it?
Because you aren’t the OP
"Chris Green" <cl@isbd.net> wrote in message news:8218bi-7k9l.ln1@esprimo.zbmc.eu...
It *may* be because we have an 'all RCBO' consumer unit and it is
quite a big house so cable runs are quite long. We're also a TT
installation, though I really can't see how this would affect it.
Ah, I wonder if RCDs and MCBs can shunt the powerline signal
live-to-neutral at the CU.
Our old house had one RCD, between the CU and the meter, and used fuses
on all circuits. This house has one RCD per ring main (ie they are
within the CU) and uses MCBs on all circuits.
Another oddity of powerline networks is that at least around here, some manage to also work two houses down the street but not in the in between houses. I would imagine this means that the signals are not getting to
the phases of the mains on the intervening properties.
When there used to be analogue wireless intercoms plugged into the mains,
the same effect could be seen, so watch it with older baby monitors. Brian
On 13/01/2022 in message <xn0ncthcs19svj5001@news.individual.net> Jeff
Gaines wrote:
Any thoughts/comment on powerline networks? There was a suggestion they
can cause RFI and I thought the combined knowledge in here would be able
to comment on that.
Just to say thank you to everybody for all the input/discussion :-)
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
On 14/01/2022 17:33, Tweed wrote:
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
On 14/01/2022 17:18, Tweed wrote:
Buy a proper mesh network. I’ve messed around with all sorts of WiFi >>>> extenders and bridges over the years. Mesh network kit works properly and >>>> can be easily added to if need be. The nodes are designed to either use >>>> 5GHz or wired Ethernet as backhaul. So if you can run a mix and match, >>>> useful if you can get an Ethernet cable to a node. As regards outside, I’ve
put my nodes on the window sill both at the back and front of the house. I >>>> can easily get connection 150 metres distant. It works a lot more reliably >>>> and faster than a power line link I had.
Why, when my existing system is perfectly adequate, and cost me nothing
except the time to flash the firmware of an old router and to learn how
to configure it?
Because you aren’t the OP
Then why reply to me, rather than the OP?
On 14/01/2022 in message <59aac78eeacharles@candehope.me.uk> charles wrote:
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it
though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
Yes, and that's how my tv gets its internet connection. Mine is made by
Devolo
If you have time to check the model I would much appreciate it :-)
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it >>though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
Yes, and that's how my tv gets its internet connection. Mine is made by >Devolo
I remember a few years ago driving in France trying to listen to R4 Droitwich. There was interference when driving along side telephone cables.
On 14/01/2022 12:58, Chris Green wrote:
Jeff Gaines<jgaines_newsid@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it
though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
Yes, TP-Link make some reasonably priced outdoor APs which can be used
in pairs to talk to each other to provide a 'bridge'. Models such as
the TL-WA5210G and TL-WA7210N can do it. However these are rather old
models, I'm sure there are newer. I expect there are indoor devices
to to the same as well.
On Fri 14/01/2022 21:38, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 14/01/2022 in message <59aac78eeacharles@candehope.me.uk> charles wrote: >>
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a >>>> sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it >>>> though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
Yes, and that's how my tv gets its internet connection. Mine is made by >>> Devolo
If you have time to check the model I would much appreciate it :-)
TP-Link also do a single and a double, the former uses a micro USB 5V
supply, the double is a plug-in. They can be used as Rx or Tx access
points*, bridging links between two different networks, and several
other modes.
*They can sit on a cable and provide a wi-fi field, or they can be
connected to a cable and provide access to a wi-fi already present.
I use FR24 quite a lot for aircraft tracking. I have an aerial, USB
receiver, and a Raspberry Pi 3B in the loft connected to one of the
single TP-L units to give wi-fi connection to my domestic network. Works
a treat. (No, the RPi3B won't connect from its location.)
I use FR24 quite a lot for aircraft tracking. I have an aerial, USB
receiver, and a Raspberry Pi 3B in the loft connected to one of the
single TP-L units to give wi-fi connection to my domestic network. Works
a treat. (No, the RPi3B won't connect from its location.)
On 14/01/2022 in message <59aac78eeacharles@candehope.me.uk> charles wrote:
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be a
sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and outputs it
though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a thing?
Yes, and that's how my tv gets its internet connection. Mine is made by
Devolo
If you have time to check the model I would much appreciate it :-)
On 14/01/2022 21:38, Jeff Gaines wrote:
On 14/01/2022 in message <59aac78eeacharles@candehope.me.uk> charles
wrote:
I have some kit that will only work if wired but a solution might be
a sort of reverse "WiFi" that picks up a signal wirelessly and
outputs it though an RJ45 (is that right?) socket - is there such a
thing?
Yes, and that's how my tv gets its internet connection. Mine is made
by Devolo
If you have time to check the model I would much appreciate it :-)
See my other post. My Devolo network uses a mixture of 500 Duo's and 500 WiFi's. The Duo's have 2 ethernet ports but no WiFi. The central 'hub'
is one of those, with one port connected to the internet router and the
other one to my main computer. The WiFi units allow mobile phones, etc
to connect wirelessly - but also have one ethernet port to facilitate a
wired connection. The WiFi devices can be set to all have the same
password, so the connection is fairly seamless when you move around the
house with a portable device.
N.B. These devices don't take a WiFi *input* and relay it - the central
hub needs a wired input from the router. -
I, too, use 500 WiFi units.
See my other post. My Devolo network uses a mixture of 500 Duo's and 500 WiFi's. The Duo's have 2 ethernet ports but no WiFi. The central 'hub'
is one of those, with one port connected to the internet router and the
other one to my main computer. The WiFi units allow mobile phones, etc
to connect wirelessly - but also have one ethernet port to facilitate a
wired connection. The WiFi devices can be set to all have the same
password, so the connection is fairly seamless when you move around the
house with a portable device.
N.B. These devices don't take a WiFi *input* and relay it - the central
hub needs a wired input from the router.
charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
That's an awful lot. You must have a very large house :)
I, too, use 500 WiFi units.
I wonder if it would be possible to somehow utilise the mains without creating the interference at these frequencies,
As a matter of interest, what sort of speeds are derived over the mains
using the current crappy interfaces?
Unless you managed to ensure all other mains-powered items presented a
linear load it becomes impossible to ensure no interference can ocur.
The basic reality is:
1) That home mains wiring isn't a simple transmission line with a fully matched linear impedance for all wiring and connections. Nor is is all 'balanced' or 'unbalanced+shielded' to the same impedance, etc.
2) Many loads are non-linear, and often time-varying in the load the
present.
(1) means RF power will be radiated or coupled into nearby items.
(2) means that having the PLN device's output not us given bands is *not* sufficient to ensure its output won't be frequency converted into those
bands by the home mains setup + other household items.
So in practice given that most users have no idea of the RF properties of their house mains or the presented RF loading behaviour of their other consumer goods, it becomes pot luck.
TBH the only other 'standard approval' I've ever seen that is as crazy as this is HDMI! That gets away with it - mostly - as a result of people
using
short 1 - 1 connections, not a branching network of cables.
Jim
In article <ss12bl$pqh$1@dont-email.me>,
Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
I wonder if it would be possible to somehow utilise the mains without
creating the interference at these frequencies,
--
Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
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On Sun, 16 Jan 2022 12:16:52 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
As a matter of interest, what sort of speeds are derived over the mains >>using the current crappy interfaces?
I no longer use them, but recall speeds of around 70-80Mb/s in a
fairly modern not particularly big terrace house. This was in excess
of my internet speeds and enough for the occasional need to copy files between computers, so good enough for me. The devices would work on
extension cables but speeds could be as low as half of the above, so I
always plugged them directly into the wall sockets.
My reason for putting them aside in favour of an ethernet cable to my
main desktop computer was occasional loss of connection which I could
only cure by switching off and restarting. Since they were of the
mains pass-through variety and powered other things such as the PC and
the modem/router, those things would also have to be restarted, which
was a big nuisance. Installing the ethernet cable was a pain, but
worth it in the end. The wireless connection to my TV streaming
devices via an Edimax ethernet bridge has never shown any problems so
I've left that alone.
Rod.
Ha ha.
I wonder if it would be possible to somehow utilise the mains without creating the interference at these frequencies, I guess the attenuation if you, say raised the start to say band 1 up, would be huge, and of course you may then clobber a lot more services as well.
As a matter of interest, what sort of speeds are derived over the mains using the current crappy interfaces?
Brian
On 16/01/2022 12:16, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Ha ha.
I wonder if it would be possible to somehow utilise the mains without
creating the interference at these frequencies, I guess the
attenuation if
you, say raised the start to say band 1 up, would be huge, and of
course you
may then clobber a lot more services as well.
 As a matter of interest, what sort of speeds are derived over the mains >> using the current crappy interfaces?
 Brian
My units theoretically run at 500 Mbps - but achive far less than that
in practice. They differ depending on where in the house they are, but
they average just under 200 Mbps - which is far faster than my internet connection!
Java Jive wrote:
My current router is a BTHH5a with an OpenWRT build, and that is
problem free
I presume you've stuck with v19.x ?
My current router is a BTHH5a with an OpenWRT build, and that is problem free
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 296 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 90:26:02 |
| Calls: | 6,658 |
| Files: | 12,203 |
| Messages: | 5,334,090 |
