Brian Gaff wrote:
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to a
continental country, would modern UK tvs get the [signals], all other
things
aside like interference etc?
Once or twice my TV has done overnight scans and added foreign channel
names, nothing that could actually be received in the cold light of
day though ...
On 05/01/2022 07:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to aOn an RF level the muxes are DVB-T or T2, so nothing different there. SD channels are easy I think, but some of the coding standards used for HD
continental country, would modern UK tvs get the ignals, all other things
aside like interference etc?
may not be supported by all UK receivers ?
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to a continental country, would modern UK tvs get the [signals], all other things aside like interference etc?
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to a continental country, would modern UK tvs get the ignals, all other things aside like interference etc?
On 05/01/2022 08:18, Mark Carver wrote:
On 05/01/2022 07:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to a >>> continental country, would modern UK tvs get the ignals, all other things >>> aside like interference etc?On an RF level the muxes are DVB-T or T2, so nothing different there. SD
channels are easy I think, but some of the coding standards used for HD
may not be supported by all UK receivers ?
Can't say I've ever had problems with French transmitters from near >Southampton, even using horizontal polarisation from Rowridge.
According to ><https://www.aerialsandtv.com/knowledge/transmitters/rowridge-transmitte >r/how-to-combat-co-channel-interference#french-co-channel-interference>
the most likely would be Cherbourg (Digosville), although that's only
40kW. I would expect, though, that all its transmission is to the south
(and probably west and east as well) although I haven't been able to
find a diagram of its transmission direction and range. There's a minor >transmitter at Le Havre (20kW), and a major one at Caen (200kW), which
might cause lift interference if it transmits to the north.
On 05/01/2022 08:38, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:I gather the national Dutch SFN mux on UHF Ch39 can be regularly
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to a >>> continental country, would modern UK tvs get the [signals], all other
things
aside like interference etc?
Once or twice my TV has done overnight scans and added foreign channel
names, nothing that could actually be received in the cold light of
day though ...
received in Lincolnshire during enhanced conditions
I also gather people along the Kent coast are able to receive under
normal conditions French SD DTT channels (In analogue times it would
have been unlocked negative going video, with un decodable AM audio, so that's at least progress !)
On Wed 05/01/2022 08:55, Mark Carver wrote:
On 05/01/2022 08:38, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:I gather the national Dutch SFN mux on UHF Ch39 can be regularly
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial
to a
continental country, would modern UK tvs get the [signals], all
other things
aside like interference etc?
Once or twice my TV has done overnight scans and added foreign
channel names, nothing that could actually be received in the cold
light of day though ...
received in Lincolnshire during enhanced conditions
I also gather people along the Kent coast are able to receive under
normal conditions French SD DTT channels (In analogue times it would
have been unlocked negative going video, with un decodable AM audio,
so that's at least progress !)
Is it Mark? I thought that France had gone completely HD vision but
retained the same audio (mp2?) as the original SD channels. Ergo
unless you have satellite and buy a Canal+ box whilst over there, or
you buy a TV that is designed to work by manual selection on any EU
system you are out in the cold.
Oh, yes, I think that's the case now. About 5 years ago ? We're
woefully behind in the UK
On 05/01/2022 18:47, Mark Carver wrote:
Oh, yes, I think that's the case now. About 5 years ago ? We're
woefully behind in the UK
Aren't the French authorities less susceptible to public opinion than
her. If they want to build a high speed railway, they just build it
without spending millions of pounds and years on public enquiries.
Not as good of course if it is going past your house or if you are a pensioner with only a SD TV set.
On 05/01/2022 08:18, Mark Carver wrote:
On 05/01/2022 07:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to a >>> continental country, would modern UK tvs get the ignals, all otherOn an RF level the muxes are DVB-T or T2, so nothing different there. SD
things
aside like interference etc?
channels are easy I think, but some of the coding standards used for HD
may not be supported by all UK receivers ?
Can't say I've ever had problems with French transmitters from near Southampton, even using horizontal polarisation from Rowridge. According
to <https://www.aerialsandtv.com/knowledge/transmitters/rowridge-transmitter/how-to-combat-co-channel-interference#french-co-channel-interference>
the most likely would be Cherbourg (Digosville), although that's only
40kW. I would expect, though, that all its transmission is to the south
(and probably west and east as well) although I haven't been able to find
a diagram of its transmission direction and range. There's a minor transmitter at Le Havre (20kW), and a major one at Caen (200kW), which
might cause lift interference if it transmits to the north.
--
Jeff
On 05/01/2022 18:47, Mark Carver wrote:
Oh, yes, I think that's the case now. About 5 years ago ? We're
woefully behind in the UK
Aren't the French authorities less susceptible to public opinion than
her. If they want to build a high speed railway, they just build it
without spending millions of pounds and years on public enquiries.
Not as good of course if it is going past your house or if you are a pensioner with only a SD TV set.
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outer edge of London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod with am sound.
Brian
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outer edge ofDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod with am
sound.
Brian
On 06/01/2022 09:00, Mark Carver wrote:
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outerDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
edge of
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod
with am
sound.
Brian
But Lille is about 200 miles due east of Rowridge. Only those on the
Dorset coast from Bournemouth to perhaps Weymouth would have aerials
pointing east. Granted that with lift anything is possible, I'd have
though that Southampton and Winchester, with aerials pointing south,
would have been more likely to get interference from Cherbourg and
Caen than anyone in the region would from Lille. Has DTV co-channel interference from Lille been noted occasionally?
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outer edge of >London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod with am >sound.
Brian
On 06/01/2022 11:10, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/01/2022 09:00, Mark Carver wrote:It was a major issue for the Poole area, and its relay in analogue days
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outerDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
edge of
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod
with am
sound.
Brian
But Lille is about 200 miles due east of Rowridge. Only those on the
Dorset coast from Bournemouth to perhaps Weymouth would have aerials
pointing east. Granted that with lift anything is possible, I'd have
though that Southampton and Winchester, with aerials pointing south,
would have been more likely to get interference from Cherbourg and
Caen than anyone in the region would from Lille. Has DTV co-channel
interference from Lille been noted occasionally?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1993-04.pdf
It still shares Rowridge's allocations today with DTT.
There was something else in France that used to corrupt Hannington's off
air feed from Rowridge during lifts, I can't remember the site, but it
would be due south of Rowridge ?
Also Rowridge shares its COM muxes with Stockland Hill, and Crystal
Palace, so I think they decided to give Rowridge a vertical component to mitigate problems from those two sites too. The COMs at Rowridge are on
50kW HP compared with 200kW VP, so if you're putting up or replacing an aerial for Rowridge, make it vertical. Only COM 7 and the pointless
local mux at Rowridge at HP only. COM 7 will be gone soon.
On 06/01/2022 11:10, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/01/2022 09:00, Mark Carver wrote:It was a major issue for the Poole area, and its relay in analogue days
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outerDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
edge of
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod
with am
sound.
Brian
But Lille is about 200 miles due east of Rowridge. Only those on the
Dorset coast from Bournemouth to perhaps Weymouth would have aerials
pointing east. Granted that with lift anything is possible, I'd have
though that Southampton and Winchester, with aerials pointing south,
would have been more likely to get interference from Cherbourg and
Caen than anyone in the region would from Lille. Has DTV co-channel
interference from Lille been noted occasionally?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1993-04.pdf
It still shares Rowridge's allocations today with DTT.
There was something else in France that used to corrupt Hannington's off
air feed from Rowridge during lifts, I can't remember the site, but it
would be due south of Rowridge ?
Also Rowridge shares its COM muxes with Stockland Hill, and Crystal
Palace, so I think they decided to give Rowridge a vertical component to mitigate problems from those two sites too. The COMs at Rowridge are on
50kW HP compared with 200kW VP, so if you're putting up or replacing an aerial for Rowridge, make it vertical. Only COM 7 and the pointless
local mux at Rowridge at HP only. COM 7 will be gone soon.
Forgive me Mark, but I thought Rowridge has had both H & V for decades -
is that not so?
There's a handful of relays that are H and V (and these date back to analogue), but even these only have H and V components going in different directions.
On Thu 06/01/2022 11:21, Mark Carver wrote:
On 06/01/2022 11:10, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/01/2022 09:00, Mark Carver wrote:It was a major issue for the Poole area, and its relay in analogue days
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outerDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
edge of
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod
with am
sound.
Brian
But Lille is about 200 miles due east of Rowridge. Only those on the
Dorset coast from Bournemouth to perhaps Weymouth would have aerials
pointing east. Granted that with lift anything is possible, I'd have
though that Southampton and Winchester, with aerials pointing south,
would have been more likely to get interference from Cherbourg and
Caen than anyone in the region would from Lille. Has DTV co-channel
interference from Lille been noted occasionally?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1993-04.pdf
It still shares Rowridge's allocations today with DTT.
There was something else in France that used to corrupt Hannington's
off air feed from Rowridge during lifts, I can't remember the site,
but it would be due south of Rowridge ?
Also Rowridge shares its COM muxes with Stockland Hill, and Crystal
Palace, so I think they decided to give Rowridge a vertical component
to mitigate problems from those two sites too. The COMs at Rowridge
are on 50kW HP compared with 200kW VP, so if you're putting up or
replacing an aerial for Rowridge, make it vertical. Only COM 7 and
the pointless local mux at Rowridge at HP only. COM 7 will be gone soon.
Forgive me Mark, but I thought Rowridge has had both H & V for decades
- is that not so?
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:j3ome0Fsnu4U1@mid.individual.net...
There's a handful of relays that are H and V (and these date back to
analogue), but even these only have H and V components going in
different directions.
Is it still true, as a broad-brush generalisation, that main
transmitters tend to use HP and relays tend to use VP? Or is that generalisation less true nowadays?
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:j3ome0Fsnu4U1@mid.individual.net...
There's a handful of relays that are H and V (and these date back to
analogue), but even these only have H and V components going in
different directions.
Is it still true, as a broad-brush generalisation, that main
transmitters tend to use HP and relays tend to use VP? Or is that generalisation less true nowadays?
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outer edge ofDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod with am
sound.
Brian
On 06/01/2022 11:21, Mark Carver wrote:
On 06/01/2022 11:10, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/01/2022 09:00, Mark Carver wrote:It was a major issue for the Poole area, and its relay in analogue days
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outerDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
edge of
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod
with am
sound.
Brian
But Lille is about 200 miles due east of Rowridge. Only those on the
Dorset coast from Bournemouth to perhaps Weymouth would have aerials
pointing east. Granted that with lift anything is possible, I'd have
though that Southampton and Winchester, with aerials pointing south,
would have been more likely to get interference from Cherbourg and
Caen than anyone in the region would from Lille. Has DTV co-channel
interference from Lille been noted occasionally?
No doubt!
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1993-04.pdf
It still shares Rowridge's allocations today with DTT.
There was something else in France that used to corrupt Hannington's off
air feed from Rowridge during lifts, I can't remember the site, but it
would be due south of Rowridge ?
Cherbourg (either 20kW or 40kW according to source) is about 100 miles due south of Rowridge. Another 100 miles, almost due south of Cherbourg, is
the Rennes transmitter (80kW).
Also Rowridge shares its COM muxes with Stockland Hill, and Crystal
Palace, so I think they decided to give Rowridge a vertical component to
mitigate problems from those two sites too. The COMs at Rowridge are on
50kW HP compared with 200kW VP, so if you're putting up or replacing an
aerial for Rowridge, make it vertical. Only COM 7 and the pointless
local mux at Rowridge at HP only. COM 7 will be gone soon.
The HP COMs at Rowridge are 200kW for MUXs 1 - 3 and 50kW for MUXs 4 - 6.
--
Jeff
On 06/01/2022 16:48, Woody wrote:
On Thu 06/01/2022 11:21, Mark Carver wrote:No, it was HP only until DSO, (10 years ago next month !)
On 06/01/2022 11:10, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/01/2022 09:00, Mark Carver wrote:It was a major issue for the Poole area, and its relay in analogue days
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outer edge >>>>>> ofDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod
with am
sound.
Brian
But Lille is about 200 miles due east of Rowridge. Only those on the
Dorset coast from Bournemouth to perhaps Weymouth would have aerials
pointing east. Granted that with lift anything is possible, I'd have
though that Southampton and Winchester, with aerials pointing south,
would have been more likely to get interference from Cherbourg and Caen >>>> than anyone in the region would from Lille. Has DTV co-channel
interference from Lille been noted occasionally?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1993-04.pdf
It still shares Rowridge's allocations today with DTT.
There was something else in France that used to corrupt Hannington's off >>> air feed from Rowridge during lifts, I can't remember the site, but it
would be due south of Rowridge ?
Also Rowridge shares its COM muxes with Stockland Hill, and Crystal
Palace, so I think they decided to give Rowridge a vertical component to >>> mitigate problems from those two sites too. The COMs at Rowridge are on
50kW HP compared with 200kW VP, so if you're putting up or replacing an
aerial for Rowridge, make it vertical. Only COM 7 and the pointless
local mux at Rowridge at HP only. COM 7 will be gone soon.
Forgive me Mark, but I thought Rowridge has had both H & V for decades -
is that not so?
It's unique for a high power TV station to have H _and_ V components, and
all beaming in the same directions.
There's a handful of relays that are H and V (and these date back to analogue), but even these only have H and V components going in different directions.
On Thu 06/01/2022 11:21, Mark Carver wrote:
On 06/01/2022 11:10, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 06/01/2022 09:00, Mark Carver wrote:It was a major issue for the Poole area, and its relay in analogue days
On 06/01/2022 08:54, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outer edge >>>>> ofDigital Lille is the reason Rowridge now has a vertical component
London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod with >>>>> am
sound.
Brian
But Lille is about 200 miles due east of Rowridge. Only those on the
Dorset coast from Bournemouth to perhaps Weymouth would have aerials
pointing east. Granted that with lift anything is possible, I'd have
though that Southampton and Winchester, with aerials pointing south,
would have been more likely to get interference from Cherbourg and Caen
than anyone in the region would from Lille. Has DTV co-channel
interference from Lille been noted occasionally?
http://downloads.bbc.co.uk/rd/pubs/reports/1993-04.pdf
It still shares Rowridge's allocations today with DTT.
There was something else in France that used to corrupt Hannington's off
air feed from Rowridge during lifts, I can't remember the site, but it
would be due south of Rowridge ?
Also Rowridge shares its COM muxes with Stockland Hill, and Crystal
Palace, so I think they decided to give Rowridge a vertical component to
mitigate problems from those two sites too. The COMs at Rowridge are on
50kW HP compared with 200kW VP, so if you're putting up or replacing an
aerial for Rowridge, make it vertical. Only COM 7 and the pointless local
mux at Rowridge at HP only. COM 7 will be gone soon.
Forgive me Mark, but I thought Rowridge has had both H & V for decades -
is that not so?
Brian Gaff wrote:
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to a
continental country, would modern UK tvs get the [signals], all other
things
aside like interference etc?
Once or twice my TV has done overnight scans and added foreign channel
names, nothing that could actually be received in the cold light of day though ...
In message <sr6anf$5to$1@dont-email.me>, "Brian Gaff (Sofa)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> writes
In the old Analogue days Lille was very strong here in the outer edge of >>London if you were high enough, but of course it was positive mod with am >>sound.When sporadic-E was about, Lille would sometimes clobber Band 1 Ch5
Brian
(Pontop Pike) in Northumberland. The 819-line signal would lock on a
405-line set, and produce two tall-and-thin, side-by-side pictures.
--
Ian
On 05/01/2022 08:38, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:I gather the national Dutch SFN mux on UHF Ch39 can be regularly received
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to a >>> continental country, would modern UK tvs get the [signals], all other
things
aside like interference etc?
Once or twice my TV has done overnight scans and added foreign channel
names, nothing that could actually be received in the cold light of day
though ...
in Lincolnshire during enhanced conditions
I also gather people along the Kent coast are able to receive under normal conditions French SD DTT channels (In analogue times it would have been unlocked negative going video, with un decodable AM audio, so that's at
least progress !)
On 05/01/2022 15:34, Woody wrote:
On Wed 05/01/2022 08:55, Mark Carver wrote:Oh, yes, I think that's the case now. About 5 years ago ? We're woefully behind in the UK
On 05/01/2022 08:38, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:I gather the national Dutch SFN mux on UHF Ch39 can be regularly
I just wondered in lift conditions, if I pointed a high gain aerial to >>>>> a
continental country, would modern UK tvs get the [signals], all other >>>>> things
aside like interference etc?
Once or twice my TV has done overnight scans and added foreign channel >>>> names, nothing that could actually be received in the cold light of day >>>> though ...
received in Lincolnshire during enhanced conditions
I also gather people along the Kent coast are able to receive under
normal conditions French SD DTT channels (In analogue times it would
have been unlocked negative going video, with un decodable AM audio, so
that's at least progress !)
Is it Mark? I thought that France had gone completely HD vision but
retained the same audio (mp2?) as the original SD channels. Ergo unless
you have satellite and buy a Canal+ box whilst over there, or you buy a
TV that is designed to work by manual selection on any EU system you are
out in the cold.
No they used positive mod for the 625 as well.Yes, that's what I said, so you ended up here with an unlocked negative
Rowridge had a vertical component added, so existing HP aerials were not affected. As said, with a new aerial you're better off using VP for
Rowridge. I've noticed a gentle increase of VP receiving aerials in its service area since DSO
On 07/01/2022 09:03, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
No they used positive mod for the 625 as well.Yes, that's what I said, so you ended up here with an unlocked negative image, with peak white sync pulses
now the channels are almost all occupied here in outer
London there is little chance of receiving such signals any more unless they go to vhf or something in one country, when we have not and then you could use something like the old Tleverter to get the channels.
Brian Gaff wrote:
now the channels are almost all occupied here in outer
London there is little chance of receiving such signals any more
unless they
go to vhf or something in one country, when we have not and then you
could
use something like the old Tleverter to get the channels.
I believe France did/do use use VHF channels for their digital TV, at
least one of my TVs includes VHF channels if asked to do a full scan.
Andy Burns wrote:
I believe France did/do use use VHF channels for their digital TV, at least >> one of my TVs includes VHF channels if asked to do a full scan.
Full scan to include analogue?
On 09/01/2022 22:03, Andy Burns wrote:
Brian Gaff wrote:
now the channels are almost all occupied here in outer
London there is little chance of receiving such signals any more
unless they
go to vhf or something in one country, when we have not and then you
could
use something like the old Tleverter to get the channels.
I believe France did/do use use VHF channels for their digital TV, at
least one of my TVs includes VHF channels if asked to do a full scan.
Full scan to include analogue?
Bill
But how does what they do help them, I have to say though French TV did seem to be pretty boring, even given that you could not understand the language. Lots of serious looking men around chatting for hours, and Sacha Distel in
a fake old theatre in the early evenings smoking himself to death and
playing jazz guitar.
Brian
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