• =?UTF-8?Q?[OT]=20UK=20=E2=80=98blind=E2=80=99=20to?= =?UTF-8?Q?=20Covid

    From Spike@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 19 08:25:21 2023
    The UK is blinding itself to the truth about Covid’s origins

    As a US Senate committee’s full, 300-page report on the origin of Covid now makes clear, a whole string of clues points towards a laboratory accident
    as the probable cause of the pandemic.

    For example, there is: evidence of biosafety concerns at the lab in the
    autumn of 2019; the Chinese authorities’ refusal to share details of early human cases of the disease in November 2019; persistent reports from US intelligence that these early cases include lab workers; the apparent start
    of vaccine development in China before the outbreak was even declared; and
    the astonishingly uncooperative attitude of the Chinese authorities to investigating the origin.

    Add to these: the failure to find infected animals in markets or on farms;
    the revelation that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) brought about 200 kinds of bat coronavirus to Wuhan; the risky nature of the research they
    did to combine the genes of new viruses with existing ones and test them on human cells and humanised mice; the surprising finding that the virus which causes Covid has a unique genetic feature that happens to be of the kind
    that the Institute had been inserting into other viruses; and the blank
    refusal of the WIV to share its database of viruses it was working on with
    the outside world after taking it offline in late 2019.

    Despite the best efforts of a small group of Western virologists who collaborated with the WIV to shut down the debate in the West and label a
    lab leak a conspiracy theory, the matter will not go away. Yet the British science establishment and Government, normally so ready to boast of our reputation as a biomedical research hub second only to the US, has done
    nothing to contribute to this debate.

    I cannot think of a single significant addition from our universities and institutes, except the strange role that the Wellcome Trust played in
    convening a meeting in February 2020, where attendees appeared to agree to mislead the public about the plausibility of a lab leak.

    With the US government arguably compromised by allegations that it funded
    the very work in the very lab in Wuhan that is under suspicion, there was a golden opportunity for British scientists and spies to step in as honest brokers and weigh the evidence. Yet they refused to do so.

    When I urged one leading scientific body at least to debate the matter, it politely declined. When I urged another to investigate, it told me the
    topic was “too controversial”. Nature, Britain’s and the world’s premier
    science journal, has confined its reporting to condescending dismissal of
    all discussion of lab leaks.

    When I asked a senior scientist to help wake the establishment up to the biggest enigma science has faced in decades, he said he thought it was
    vital we do not find out what happened lest it annoy the Chinese
    government.

    This is not the stance anybody would take over an accident to an airliner,
    a chemical plant or a nuclear reactor. Yet unlike such accidents, the
    pandemic killed millions.

    Of course he is right about the reason for our reticence. The Foreign
    Office is in permanent kow-tow. Our universities and science journals are directly or indirectly dependent on Chinese funds and infested with people
    who seem to admire authoritarian communism. Senior scientists are worried
    that admitting a lab leak is plausible would damage the reputation of
    science. To which I say: not half as much as trying to cover it up.

    Matt Ridley is the author of ‘Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19’

    <https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1268/reader/reader.html?#!preferred/0/package/1268/pub/1268/page/70/article/NaN>

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Unsteadyken@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 19 12:04:08 2023
    In article <ka9mrhF7pn5U1@mid.individual.net>,

    Spike says...

    I cannot think


    So we see.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Gaff@21:1/5 to Spike on Wed Apr 19 12:39:49 2023
    In my view, you cannot prove anything. Its well known that the Americans
    will blame everything on somebody else.
    Its their old we come in peace, shoot to kill men ethos.
    Brian

    --

    --:
    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Spike" <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote in message news:ka9mrhF7pn5U1@mid.individual.net...

    The UK is blinding itself to the truth about Covid's origins

    As a US Senate committee's full, 300-page report on the origin of Covid
    now
    makes clear, a whole string of clues points towards a laboratory accident
    as the probable cause of the pandemic.

    For example, there is: evidence of biosafety concerns at the lab in the autumn of 2019; the Chinese authorities' refusal to share details of early human cases of the disease in November 2019; persistent reports from US intelligence that these early cases include lab workers; the apparent
    start
    of vaccine development in China before the outbreak was even declared; and the astonishingly uncooperative attitude of the Chinese authorities to investigating the origin.

    Add to these: the failure to find infected animals in markets or on farms; the revelation that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) brought about
    200
    kinds of bat coronavirus to Wuhan; the risky nature of the research they
    did to combine the genes of new viruses with existing ones and test them
    on
    human cells and humanised mice; the surprising finding that the virus
    which
    causes Covid has a unique genetic feature that happens to be of the kind
    that the Institute had been inserting into other viruses; and the blank refusal of the WIV to share its database of viruses it was working on with the outside world after taking it offline in late 2019.

    Despite the best efforts of a small group of Western virologists who collaborated with the WIV to shut down the debate in the West and label a
    lab leak a conspiracy theory, the matter will not go away. Yet the British science establishment and Government, normally so ready to boast of our reputation as a biomedical research hub second only to the US, has done nothing to contribute to this debate.

    I cannot think of a single significant addition from our universities and institutes, except the strange role that the Wellcome Trust played in convening a meeting in February 2020, where attendees appeared to agree to mislead the public about the plausibility of a lab leak.

    With the US government arguably compromised by allegations that it funded
    the very work in the very lab in Wuhan that is under suspicion, there was
    a
    golden opportunity for British scientists and spies to step in as honest brokers and weigh the evidence. Yet they refused to do so.

    When I urged one leading scientific body at least to debate the matter, it politely declined. When I urged another to investigate, it told me the
    topic was "too controversial". Nature, Britain's and the world's premier science journal, has confined its reporting to condescending dismissal of
    all discussion of lab leaks.

    When I asked a senior scientist to help wake the establishment up to the biggest enigma science has faced in decades, he said he thought it was
    vital we do not find out what happened lest it annoy the Chinese
    government.

    This is not the stance anybody would take over an accident to an airliner,
    a chemical plant or a nuclear reactor. Yet unlike such accidents, the pandemic killed millions.

    Of course he is right about the reason for our reticence. The Foreign
    Office is in permanent kow-tow. Our universities and science journals are directly or indirectly dependent on Chinese funds and infested with people who seem to admire authoritarian communism. Senior scientists are worried that admitting a lab leak is plausible would damage the reputation of science. To which I say: not half as much as trying to cover it up.

    Matt Ridley is the author of 'Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19'

    <https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1268/reader/reader.html?#!preferred/0/package/1268/pub/1268/page/70/article/NaN>

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Gaff@21:1/5 to Spike on Wed Apr 19 12:37:51 2023
    Stop using the word blind. Are you suggesting that whatever your premise it
    is akin to being blind, there are a lot of us blind folk who do not
    appreciate this kind of ablist posting.
    Brian

    --

    --:
    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Spike" <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote in message news:ka9mrhF7pn5U1@mid.individual.net...

    The UK is blinding itself to the truth about Covid's origins

    As a US Senate committee's full, 300-page report on the origin of Covid
    now
    makes clear, a whole string of clues points towards a laboratory accident
    as the probable cause of the pandemic.

    For example, there is: evidence of biosafety concerns at the lab in the autumn of 2019; the Chinese authorities' refusal to share details of early human cases of the disease in November 2019; persistent reports from US intelligence that these early cases include lab workers; the apparent
    start
    of vaccine development in China before the outbreak was even declared; and the astonishingly uncooperative attitude of the Chinese authorities to investigating the origin.

    Add to these: the failure to find infected animals in markets or on farms; the revelation that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) brought about
    200
    kinds of bat coronavirus to Wuhan; the risky nature of the research they
    did to combine the genes of new viruses with existing ones and test them
    on
    human cells and humanised mice; the surprising finding that the virus
    which
    causes Covid has a unique genetic feature that happens to be of the kind
    that the Institute had been inserting into other viruses; and the blank refusal of the WIV to share its database of viruses it was working on with the outside world after taking it offline in late 2019.

    Despite the best efforts of a small group of Western virologists who collaborated with the WIV to shut down the debate in the West and label a
    lab leak a conspiracy theory, the matter will not go away. Yet the British science establishment and Government, normally so ready to boast of our reputation as a biomedical research hub second only to the US, has done nothing to contribute to this debate.

    I cannot think of a single significant addition from our universities and institutes, except the strange role that the Wellcome Trust played in convening a meeting in February 2020, where attendees appeared to agree to mislead the public about the plausibility of a lab leak.

    With the US government arguably compromised by allegations that it funded
    the very work in the very lab in Wuhan that is under suspicion, there was
    a
    golden opportunity for British scientists and spies to step in as honest brokers and weigh the evidence. Yet they refused to do so.

    When I urged one leading scientific body at least to debate the matter, it politely declined. When I urged another to investigate, it told me the
    topic was "too controversial". Nature, Britain's and the world's premier science journal, has confined its reporting to condescending dismissal of
    all discussion of lab leaks.

    When I asked a senior scientist to help wake the establishment up to the biggest enigma science has faced in decades, he said he thought it was
    vital we do not find out what happened lest it annoy the Chinese
    government.

    This is not the stance anybody would take over an accident to an airliner,
    a chemical plant or a nuclear reactor. Yet unlike such accidents, the pandemic killed millions.

    Of course he is right about the reason for our reticence. The Foreign
    Office is in permanent kow-tow. Our universities and science journals are directly or indirectly dependent on Chinese funds and infested with people who seem to admire authoritarian communism. Senior scientists are worried that admitting a lab leak is plausible would damage the reputation of science. To which I say: not half as much as trying to cover it up.

    Matt Ridley is the author of 'Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19'

    <https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1268/reader/reader.html?#!preferred/0/package/1268/pub/1268/page/70/article/NaN>

    --
    Spike

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From phister@21:1/5 to Spike on Wed Apr 19 17:24:16 2023
    On 19 Apr 2023 08:25:21 GMT, Spike wrote:

    The UK is blinding itself to the truth about Covid’s origins

    As a US Senate committee’s full, 300-page report on the origin of Covid
    now makes clear, a whole string of clues points towards a laboratory
    accident as the probable cause of the pandemic.

    For example, there is: evidence of biosafety concerns at the lab in the autumn of 2019; the Chinese authorities’ refusal to share details of
    early human cases of the disease in November 2019; persistent reports
    from US intelligence that these early cases include lab workers; the
    apparent start of vaccine development in China before the outbreak was
    even declared; and the astonishingly uncooperative attitude of the
    Chinese authorities to investigating the origin.

    Add to these: the failure to find infected animals in markets or on
    farms;
    the revelation that the Wuhan Institute of Virology (WIV) brought about
    200 kinds of bat coronavirus to Wuhan; the risky nature of the research
    they did to combine the genes of new viruses with existing ones and test
    them on human cells and humanised mice; the surprising finding that the
    virus which causes Covid has a unique genetic feature that happens to be
    of the kind that the Institute had been inserting into other viruses;
    and the blank refusal of the WIV to share its database of viruses it was working on with the outside world after taking it offline in late 2019.

    Despite the best efforts of a small group of Western virologists who collaborated with the WIV to shut down the debate in the West and label
    a lab leak a conspiracy theory, the matter will not go away. Yet the
    British science establishment and Government, normally so ready to boast
    of our reputation as a biomedical research hub second only to the US,
    has done nothing to contribute to this debate.

    I cannot think of a single significant addition from our universities
    and institutes, except the strange role that the Wellcome Trust played
    in convening a meeting in February 2020, where attendees appeared to
    agree to mislead the public about the plausibility of a lab leak.

    With the US government arguably compromised by allegations that it
    funded the very work in the very lab in Wuhan that is under suspicion,
    there was a golden opportunity for British scientists and spies to step
    in as honest brokers and weigh the evidence. Yet they refused to do so.

    When I urged one leading scientific body at least to debate the matter,
    it politely declined. When I urged another to investigate, it told me
    the topic was “too controversial”. Nature, Britain’s and the world’s premier science journal, has confined its reporting to condescending dismissal of all discussion of lab leaks.

    When I asked a senior scientist to help wake the establishment up to the biggest enigma science has faced in decades, he said he thought it was
    vital we do not find out what happened lest it annoy the Chinese
    government.

    This is not the stance anybody would take over an accident to an
    airliner,
    a chemical plant or a nuclear reactor. Yet unlike such accidents, the pandemic killed millions.

    Of course he is right about the reason for our reticence. The Foreign
    Office is in permanent kow-tow. Our universities and science journals
    are directly or indirectly dependent on Chinese funds and infested with people who seem to admire authoritarian communism. Senior scientists are worried that admitting a lab leak is plausible would damage the
    reputation of science. To which I say: not half as much as trying to
    cover it up.

    Matt Ridley is the author of ‘Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19’

    <https://digitaleditions.telegraph.co.uk/data/1268/reader/reader.html?#!
    preferred/0/package/1268/pub/1268/page/70/article/NaN>

    A report released by Republican lawmakers cites "ample evidence" that the
    lab was working to modify corona viruses to infect humans and calls for a bipartisan investigation into its origins.

    Republican Senator Rand Paul also alleges that US money was used to fund research there that made some viruses more infectious and more deadly, a process known as "gain-of-function".

    But this has been firmly rejected by Dr Anthony Fauci, the US infectious diseases chief.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From NY@21:1/5 to phister on Wed Apr 19 21:07:00 2023
    On 19/04/2023 18:24, phister wrote:
    On 19 Apr 2023 08:25:21 GMT, Spike wrote:

    The UK is blinding itself to the truth about Covid’s origins

    As a US Senate committee’s full, 300-page report on the origin of Covid
    now makes clear, a whole string of clues points towards a laboratory
    accident as the probable cause of the pandemic.

    [snip]

    A report released by Republican lawmakers cites "ample evidence" that the
    lab was working to modify corona viruses to infect humans and calls for a bipartisan investigation into its origins.

    Republican Senator Rand Paul also alleges that US money was used to fund research there that made some viruses more infectious and more deadly, a process known as "gain-of-function".

    OK. The clinical trial of the virus, with potentially up to 7 billion
    "guinea pig" patients, proved the effectiveness of it. But they might
    have problems convincing the Committee on Safety of Medicines (or any
    other country's equivalent of the CSM) that the clinical trial of Covid
    was ethical ;-(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lew Higgins@21:1/5 to Spike on Thu Apr 20 08:48:16 2023
    On 19/04/2023 09:25, Spike wrote:

    Matt Ridley is the author of ‘Viral: The Search for the Origin of Covid-19’

    He was also the Chairman of Northern Rock which precipitated the worst
    banking crisis in UK history. Time for an investigation of his role in
    the origin of that crisis.

    --
    Lew

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Gaff@21:1/5 to Lew Higgins on Fri Apr 21 09:25:46 2023
    Some people have a habit of just being wrong. In the case of Covid, you can interlink many things but you cannot prove them as true. Those live markets
    in China still take place, and so does research, but as to what actually happened, I doubt anyone will ever truly be sure, and finger pointing will
    get you nowhere. What is done is done, after all, you can learn but never go back, seemingly though humans never do learn or we would not still be
    killing each other in wars for no good reason.
    Brian

    --

    --:
    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Lew Higgins" <lewhiggins@NOSPAMblueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message news:u1qqo0$go5n$1@dont-email.me...
    On 19/04/2023 09:25, Spike wrote:

    Matt Ridley is the author of 'Viral: The Search for the Origin of
    Covid-19'

    He was also the Chairman of Northern Rock which precipitated the worst banking crisis in UK history. Time for an investigation of his role in the origin of that crisis.

    --
    Lew


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 20 09:38:13 2023
    In article <u1p840$4htc$1@dont-email.me>, phister <phister@inbox.com>
    wrote:

    A report released by Republican lawmakers cites "ample evidence" that
    the lab was working to modify corona viruses to infect humans and calls
    for a bipartisan investigation into its origins.

    Republican Senator Rand Paul also alleges that US money was used to fund research there that made some viruses more infectious and more deadly,
    a process known as "gain-of-function".

    But this has been firmly rejected by Dr Anthony Fauci, the US infectious diseases chief.

    "Republican " seems to connect with "Fux News" quite often...

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)