How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 06:55:57 -0800 (PST), David Paste
<pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
My expectations are: (1) a car radio is designed for use in a car and
(2) the car is likely to be outdoors and not surrounded by electronic devices.
On 22/12/2022 15:07, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 06:55:57 -0800 (PST), David Paste
<pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home
stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as
I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a
ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
My expectations are: (1) a car radio is designed for use in a car and
(2) the car is likely to be outdoors and not surrounded by electronic
devices.
.... or foil backed plasterboard, roof-tiles of a certain (IMS), etc.
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 06:55:57 -0800 (PST), David Paste
<pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
My expectations are: (1) a car radio is designed for use in a car and
(2) the car is likely to be outdoors and not surrounded by electronic devices.
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo,
even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can,
whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod
within the metal body of the car itself.
Thanks in advance.
David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo,
even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can,
whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod
within the metal body of the car itself.
Thanks in advance.
You probably don’t have DSL in your car.
If you want good AM reception at home, you’ll need at least a communication >receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
Stereo systems are notorious for poor AM performance.
In the case of long wave, would this need an aerial 750 metres long?
On 22 Dec 2022 16:59:08 GMT, Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote:
David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo,
even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can,
whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod
within the metal body of the car itself.
Thanks in advance.
You probably donÂ’t have DSL in your car.
If you want good AM reception at home, youÂ’ll need at least a communication >> receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
In the case of long wave, would this need an aerial 750 metres long?
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
If you want good AM reception at home, you’ll need at least a communication receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
On 22 Dec 2022 16:59:08 GMT, Spike <Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote:
David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo,
even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can,
whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod
within the metal body of the car itself.
Thanks in advance.
You probably don?t have DSL in your car.
If you want good AM reception at home, you?ll need at least a communication >receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
In the case of long wave, would this need an aerial 750 metres long?
David Paste <paste...@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod
within the metal body of the car itself.
Thanks in advance.You probably don’t have DSL in your car.
If you want good AM reception at home, you’ll need at least a communication
receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
Stereo systems are notorious for poor AM performance.
--
Spike
Only portable radios have ferrite rod antennas. Why do you suppose cars
have telescopic aerials (or wire coat hangers if they have been ripped off)?
On 22/12/2022 16:59, Spike wrote:
If you want good AM reception at home, you’ll need at least a communication
receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
That often does not help when I used to have to usee Medium Wave and
Long Wave, before we got Radio 4 on VHF FM, I often used a
communiications receiver with a synchronous detector but it was still
rubbish reception.
David Paste <pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo,
even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can,
whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod
within the metal body of the car itself.
Thanks in advance.
You probably don’t have DSL in your car.
If you want good AM reception at home, you’ll need at least a communication receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
Stereo systems are notorious for poor AM performance.
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo,
even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can,
whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
Thanks in advance.
On Thu 22/12/2022 15:07, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 06:55:57 -0800 (PST), David Paste
<pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo,
even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can,
whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod
within the metal body of the car itself.
My expectations are: (1) a car radio is designed for use in a car and
(2) the car is likely to be outdoors and not surrounded by electronic
devices.
The car will have an external antenna - may be a rod, a sharks fin, or in
the rear or rear-side window glass (with amplifier in the last two cases.) Whichever it is, if the car was fitted new with a radio capable of LW then the aerial system will work with it. Certainly it isn't a ferrite rod -
the radio (metal) case makes a pretty effective Faraday cage!
Per the hi-fi LW, most such units are Japanese designed (may or may not be built there) and as the Japs never had a LW broadcast frequency allocation they tend not to pay too much attention to it. Sony tuners (and especially the multiband communication receiver types) were some of the best (mine is pretty good) but otherwise you need to get a tuner designed and preferably built in Europe. Brands such as Telefunken, the earlier Grundig and Bosch units (now just names,) and Philips are generally well sensitive. NAD also make very good products, designed in the UK but built in the Far East -
not sure if they ever did a LW tuner?
On 22/12/2022 17:22, Scott wrote:
In the case of long wave, would this need an aerial 750 metres long?
Sky noise dominates thermal noise at long wave frequencies, so receive aerials don't need to be very efficient to be dominated by noise coming
from the aerial.
Highly directional aerials are impracticable.
On 22/12/2022 14:55, David Paste wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo,You're lucky you even have AM on your car radio. The facility on my 2021 Peugeot's audio system seemed to vanish after a software upgrade for its 12mth service !
even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can,
whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod
within the metal body of the car itself.
The best non car AM receiver I ever owned is in my loft. A 1978 Trio Tuner Amp. I suspect if I power it up the electrolytics will go pop !
It escapes me as to why they did not start to adopt DRM Am broadcasting
when it first came out, as it was reasonably good and you could hear most stations during the day.
Hence the loop aerial of course.
No you can use shorter aerials if you tune up the first stage of the receiver with the aerial connected, it becomes part of the tuned circuit. Brian
I would agree with that from an amateur radio viewpoint Brian, which is
what an aerial tuner does!
Trouble is that most tuners with an AM coaxial connection these days
have a high impedance input (possibly resistively loaded for matching)
so any wire connected to the input will do the job.
If the AM aerial connection is 300R (and many still are) then the
internal matching transformer should - in theory - have a centre tap
earth - which is not a lot of good if the mains lead is two core and/or
there is no physical earth screw on the case!
From the OP's point of view, assuming the mains lead is two-core, the
best solution would be to connect a decent thickness wire from a case
screw on the tuner to a nearby earth. That could be a wire through the
wall and to a close earth stake (assuming on ground floor), or to a >convenient metal water pipe. As already noted by others, a decent earth
on a tuner will reduce the mush noticeably.
If the AM aerial connection is 300R (and many still
From the OP's point of view, assuming the mains lead is two-core, the
best solution would be to connect a decent thickness wire from a case
screw on the tuner to a nearby earth. That could be a wire through the
wall and to a close earth stake (assuming on ground floor), or to a convenient metal water pipe. As already noted by others, a decent earth
on a tuner will reduce the mush noticeably.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:45:53 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
I would agree with that from an amateur radio viewpoint Brian, which isI take it you are not recommending the earth pin of the three pin
what an aerial tuner does!
Trouble is that most tuners with an AM coaxial connection these days
have a high impedance input (possibly resistively loaded for matching)
so any wire connected to the input will do the job.
If the AM aerial connection is 300R (and many still are) then the
internal matching transformer should - in theory - have a centre tap
earth - which is not a lot of good if the mains lead is two core and/or
there is no physical earth screw on the case!
From the OP's point of view, assuming the mains lead is two-core, the
best solution would be to connect a decent thickness wire from a case
screw on the tuner to a nearby earth. That could be a wire through the
wall and to a close earth stake (assuming on ground floor), or to a
convenient metal water pipe. As already noted by others, a decent earth
on a tuner will reduce the mush noticeably.
plug?
I am still not sure why you can't just connect to the earth pln of the
plug, as all the other appliances do.
On Fri 23/12/2022 12:45, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 11:45:53 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
I would agree with that from an amateur radio viewpoint Brian, which isI take it you are not recommending the earth pin of the three pin
what an aerial tuner does!
Trouble is that most tuners with an AM coaxial connection these days
have a high impedance input (possibly resistively loaded for matching)
so any wire connected to the input will do the job.
If the AM aerial connection is 300R (and many still are) then the
internal matching transformer should - in theory - have a centre tap
earth - which is not a lot of good if the mains lead is two core and/or
there is no physical earth screw on the case!
From the OP's point of view, assuming the mains lead is two-core, the
best solution would be to connect a decent thickness wire from a case
screw on the tuner to a nearby earth. That could be a wire through the
wall and to a close earth stake (assuming on ground floor), or to a
convenient metal water pipe. As already noted by others, a decent earth
on a tuner will reduce the mush noticeably.
plug?
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
truest earth. If you put an earth connection on the tuner case to a
local ground rod and the tuner has three-core cable, then under fault >conditions the tuner cable and your house wiring could be carrying the
earth current of the entire sub-station depending what type of supply
you have.
It is good practice on a hi-fi system to have only one earthing point, >usually the amp, hence why most hi-fi has only two-core cable! If you do
fit your own earth rod, then disconnect the earth wire in your amp plug.
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
truest earth.
On 23/12/2022 13:50, Scott wrote:
I am still not sure why you can't just connect to the earth pln of the
plug, as all the other appliances do.
It's been pointed out that having a functional earth that is not
connected to main earth can be dangerous (and a building regulations >violation), but the reason for separating functional and mains earths is
that mains earths can carry a lot of electrical noise.
On 23/12/2022 11:45, Woody wrote:
If the AM aerial connection is 300R (and many still
Are you sure. 300R is common for VHF, because the indoor aerial was a
300R ribbon, configured as a folded dipole. Mine has a small frame
aerial on a, detachable, external ball and socket joint, and hardwired.
From the OP's point of view, assuming the mains lead is two-core, the
best solution would be to connect a decent thickness wire from a case
screw on the tuner to a nearby earth. That could be a wire through the
wall and to a close earth stake (assuming on ground floor), or to a
convenient metal water pipe. As already noted by others, a decent earth
on a tuner will reduce the mush noticeably.
If there is any conductor connected to this, functional earth, which
could also contact a human, directly or through another conductor, you
must bond it, at mains frequencies, to the safety earth.
A lot of British wiring uses the PME system, which, under fault
conditions, can result in mains earth being significantly different
from stake in the ground earth.
On 23/12/2022 13:50, Scott wrote:
I am still not sure why you can't just connect to the earth pln of the
plug, as all the other appliances do.
It's been pointed out that having a functional earth that is not
connected to main earth can be dangerous (and a building regulations >violation), but the reason for separating functional and mains earths is
that mains earths can carry a lot of electrical noise.
On 23/12/2022 12:31, David Woolley wrote:
On 23/12/2022 11:45, Woody wrote:
If the AM aerial connection is 300R (and many still
Are you sure. 300R is common for VHF, because the indoor aerial was a
300R ribbon, configured as a folded dipole. Mine has a small frame
aerial on a, detachable, external ball and socket joint, and hardwired.
From the OP's point of view, assuming the mains lead is two-core, the
best solution would be to connect a decent thickness wire from a case
screw on the tuner to a nearby earth. That could be a wire through the
wall and to a close earth stake (assuming on ground floor), or to a
convenient metal water pipe. As already noted by others, a decent earth
on a tuner will reduce the mush noticeably.
If there is any conductor connected to this, functional earth, which
could also contact a human, directly or through another conductor, you
must bond it, at mains frequencies, to the safety earth.
A lot of British wiring uses the PME system, which, under fault
conditions, can result in mains earth being significantly different
from stake in the ground earth.
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
I used to get fantastic results by using a croc clip on the grille of my >bedroom's storage heater as an Earth for the radios I used to build :-)
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
The case for the toaster is connected to earth, as is the
kettle, fridge and washing machine, so how can it be dangerous to
connect the case of a hi-fi module?
On 23/12/2022 14:19, Scott wrote:
The case for the toaster is connected to earth, as is the
kettle, fridge and washing machine, so how can it be dangerous to
connect the case of a hi-fi module?
The danger is in connecting it to the real earth, rather than the
protective earth in the mains wiring.
Woody actually said a local ground rod, and the local ground rod for the >protective earth can be several properties away, so I assume he is
saying one that you install.
On 23/12/2022 14:40, Scott wrote:
Exactly, and you are saying this is dangerous and it should be
connected to the protective earth in the mains wiring - ie to the
earth pin of the plug, which is what I assumed in the first place.
It's potentially dangerous, although it will depend on the internal >circuitry. What is dangerous is a connection that is good at 50Hz to >something you can touch.
If the earth screw is directly connected to the chassis, or can be
touched, it counts as dangerous.
Exactly, and you are saying this is dangerous and it should be
connected to the protective earth in the mains wiring - ie to the
earth pin of the plug, which is what I assumed in the first place.
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
As a matter of interest, how do you earth a cooker, fridge, washing
machine, kettle, microwave oven etc. I was always told that the
purpose of the earth connection was to guarantee that the metal you
touch cannot become live because it is connected to earth. (I
understand the concept of double insulation but I assume this does not
apply to any of the examples I have given and I would expect a two
core flex).
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 14:59:47 +0000, David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:Modern 'earth leakage' fault protection detects an imbalance between
On 23/12/2022 14:40, Scott wrote:As a matter of interest, how do you earth a cooker, fridge, washing
Exactly, and you are saying this is dangerous and it should beIt's potentially dangerous, although it will depend on the internal
connected to the protective earth in the mains wiring - ie to the
earth pin of the plug, which is what I assumed in the first place.
circuitry. What is dangerous is a connection that is good at 50Hz to
something you can touch.
If the earth screw is directly connected to the chassis, or can be
touched, it counts as dangerous.
machine, kettle, microwave oven etc. I was always told that the
purpose of the earth connection was to guarantee that the metal you
touch cannot become live because it is connected to earth. (I
understand the concept of double insulation but I assume this does not
apply to any of the examples I have given and I would expect a two
core flex).
On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
truest earth.
Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
On 23/12/2022 15:09, Scott wrote:
As a matter of interest, how do you earth a cooker, fridge, washing
machine, kettle, microwave oven etc. I was always told that the
purpose of the earth connection was to guarantee that the metal you
touch cannot become live because it is connected to earth. (I
understand the concept of double insulation but I assume this does not
apply to any of the examples I have given and I would expect a two
core flex).
The basic requirement is that it connected to everything else you can
touch at the same time.
Connecting to actual earth is so that the
inside of your house isn't too far away from the earth around it, but
with PME type systems, it can still be sufficiently different to give
you a jolt which might not kill you directly, but might, for example,
cause you to fall.
For the cooker, etc., the connection is likely to be through the mains
earth wire. For the kitchen sink, there may be an earth bonding wire,
or it may rely on the water pipes leading to a bonding wire.
With PME, that earth wire is actually connected to neutral, at the
property boundary, and only occasionally connected to the soil. Neutral
is always connected to the soil at the sub-station.
On 23/12/2022 15:09, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 14:59:47 +0000, David WoolleyModern 'earth leakage' fault protection detects an imbalance between
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
On 23/12/2022 14:40, Scott wrote:As a matter of interest, how do you earth a cooker, fridge, washing
Exactly, and you are saying this is dangerous and it should beIt's potentially dangerous, although it will depend on the internal
connected to the protective earth in the mains wiring - ie to the
earth pin of the plug, which is what I assumed in the first place.
circuitry. What is dangerous is a connection that is good at 50Hz to
something you can touch.
If the earth screw is directly connected to the chassis, or can be
touched, it counts as dangerous.
machine, kettle, microwave oven etc. I was always told that the
purpose of the earth connection was to guarantee that the metal you
touch cannot become live because it is connected to earth. (I
understand the concept of double insulation but I assume this does not
apply to any of the examples I have given and I would expect a two
core flex).
live and neutral, (obviously when all is good, the current 'coming in'
on live is exactly the same as 'leaving' via neural (or else Mr
Kirchhoff would have a few words to say)
So, in a fault condition of some of that current escaping to Earth (or
you touching the live terminal) the circuit will be shut off.
If you look at the photo I posted, that's from my family home, built
1966 (and with two phases, and on/off peak; another story)
You can see three Grey Earth Leakage breakers. They are voltage
activated (and outlawed today). They rely on the current from a faulty >appliance, *only* leaking away via the earth cable of that appliance.
In a situation where you might grab hold a live conductor, they will do >nothing.
I don't think David would be able to bear living in that house !
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 15:22:30 +0000, David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:But conduct when full of water
On 23/12/2022 15:09, Scott wrote:
As a matter of interest, how do you earth a cooker, fridge, washing
machine, kettle, microwave oven etc. I was always told that the
purpose of the earth connection was to guarantee that the metal you
touch cannot become live because it is connected to earth. (I
understand the concept of double insulation but I assume this does not
apply to any of the examples I have given and I would expect a two
core flex).
The basic requirement is that it connected to everything else you can
touch at the same time.
ie, equipotential bonding.
I am not following your line of argument at all. A 1950s toaster had
a three pin plug with one pin of the pins connected to earth. No-one
would consider setting up equipotential bonding between the toaster,
the kettle and the food mixer.
Connecting to actual earth is so that the
inside of your house isn't too far away from the earth around it, but
with PME type systems, it can still be sufficiently different to give
you a jolt which might not kill you directly, but might, for example,
cause you to fall.
For the cooker, etc., the connection is likely to be through the mains
earth wire. For the kitchen sink, there may be an earth bonding wire,
or it may rely on the water pipes leading to a bonding wire.
... many if not most water pipes are made of plastic.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 15:19:14 +0000, Mark CarverI think what David is trying to say is, should the electrically earthed
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 23/12/2022 15:09, Scott wrote:I understand the concept of an RCD but I thought we were discussing
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 14:59:47 +0000, David WoolleyModern 'earth leakage' fault protection detects an imbalance between
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
On 23/12/2022 14:40, Scott wrote:As a matter of interest, how do you earth a cooker, fridge, washing
Exactly, and you are saying this is dangerous and it should beIt's potentially dangerous, although it will depend on the internal
connected to the protective earth in the mains wiring - ie to the
earth pin of the plug, which is what I assumed in the first place.
circuitry. What is dangerous is a connection that is good at 50Hz to
something you can touch.
If the earth screw is directly connected to the chassis, or can be
touched, it counts as dangerous.
machine, kettle, microwave oven etc. I was always told that the
purpose of the earth connection was to guarantee that the metal you
touch cannot become live because it is connected to earth. (I
understand the concept of double insulation but I assume this does not
apply to any of the examples I have given and I would expect a two
core flex).
live and neutral, (obviously when all is good, the current 'coming in'
on live is exactly the same as 'leaving' via neural (or else Mr
Kirchhoff would have a few words to say)
So, in a fault condition of some of that current escaping to Earth (or
you touching the live terminal) the circuit will be shut off.
If you look at the photo I posted, that's from my family home, built
1966 (and with two phases, and on/off peak; another story)
You can see three Grey Earth Leakage breakers. They are voltage
activated (and outlawed today). They rely on the current from a faulty
appliance, *only* leaking away via the earth cable of that appliance.
In a situation where you might grab hold a live conductor, they will do
nothing.
I don't think David would be able to bear living in that house !
the traditional use of the earth wire. My understanding was (and
still is) that the idea was to make sure the metal parts could not
become live. How can there be one rule for radiators, fridges,
cookers, toasters etc and a different rule for tuners? I accept there
may be RF implications for a tuner but the assertion made was that it
was unsafe to connect the metal chassis to earth. I do not follow
that at all. If earthing was unsafe it would not have been introduced
in the first place.
I accept there
may be RF implications for a tuner but the assertion made was that it
was unsafe to connect the metal chassis to earth. I do not follow
that at all. If earthing was unsafe it would not have been introduced
in the first place.
On 23/12/2022 18:44, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 15:19:14 +0000, Mark CarverI think what David is trying to say is, should the electrically earthed
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 23/12/2022 15:09, Scott wrote:I understand the concept of an RCD but I thought we were discussing
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 14:59:47 +0000, David WoolleyModern 'earth leakage' fault protection detects an imbalance between
<david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
On 23/12/2022 14:40, Scott wrote:As a matter of interest, how do you earth a cooker, fridge, washing
Exactly, and you are saying this is dangerous and it should beIt's potentially dangerous, although it will depend on the internal
connected to the protective earth in the mains wiring - ie to the
earth pin of the plug, which is what I assumed in the first place.
circuitry. What is dangerous is a connection that is good at 50Hz to >>>>> something you can touch.
If the earth screw is directly connected to the chassis, or can be
touched, it counts as dangerous.
machine, kettle, microwave oven etc. I was always told that the
purpose of the earth connection was to guarantee that the metal you
touch cannot become live because it is connected to earth. (I
understand the concept of double insulation but I assume this does not >>>> apply to any of the examples I have given and I would expect a two
core flex).
live and neutral, (obviously when all is good, the current 'coming in'
on live is exactly the same as 'leaving' via neural (or else Mr
Kirchhoff would have a few words to say)
So, in a fault condition of some of that current escaping to Earth (or
you touching the live terminal) the circuit will be shut off.
If you look at the photo I posted, that's from my family home, built
1966 (and with two phases, and on/off peak; another story)
You can see three Grey Earth Leakage breakers. They are voltage
activated (and outlawed today). They rely on the current from a faulty
appliance, *only* leaking away via the earth cable of that appliance.
In a situation where you might grab hold a live conductor, they will do
nothing.
I don't think David would be able to bear living in that house !
the traditional use of the earth wire. My understanding was (and
still is) that the idea was to make sure the metal parts could not
become live. How can there be one rule for radiators, fridges,
cookers, toasters etc and a different rule for tuners? I accept there
may be RF implications for a tuner but the assertion made was that it
was unsafe to connect the metal chassis to earth. I do not follow
that at all. If earthing was unsafe it would not have been introduced
in the first place.
metal case of an appliance become live, through a fault, don't assume
it'll have zero potential on it, it may not, and in the absence of other >safety devices (RCDs etc) operating, you may well still get a 'bolt'
touching the metalwork.
the
inside of your house isn't too far away from the earth around it, but... many if not most water pipes are made of plastic.
with PME type systems, it can still be sufficiently different to give
you a jolt which might not kill you directly, but might, for example,
cause you to fall.
For the cooker, etc., the connection is likely to be through the mains
earth wire. For the kitchen sink, there may be an earth bonding wire,
or it may rely on the water pipes leading to a bonding wire.
I am not following your line of argument at all. A 1950s toaster had
a three pin plug with one pin of the pins connected to earth. No-one
would consider setting up equipotential bonding between the toaster,
the kettle and the food mixer.
... many if not most water pipes are made of plastic.
I hope so because the idea that it is dangerous to connect the metal
body of an electrical appliance to earth flies in the face of 100
years of electrical design.
On 23/12/2022 18:51, Scott wrote:
the
inside of your house isn't too far away from the earth around it, but... many if not most water pipes are made of plastic.
with PME type systems, it can still be sufficiently different to give
you a jolt which might not kill you directly, but might, for example,
cause you to fall.
For the cooker, etc., the connection is likely to be through the mains
earth wire. For the kitchen sink, there may be an earth bonding wire,
or it may rely on the water pipes leading to a bonding wire.
I've got a blue plastic water main that comes up out of the ground, but
every other pipe in the house after the stop cock is copper.
Actually, our house before we ripped it down and rebuilt it, was a TT Earthing system, with a crappy old piece of 16ish SWG wire running
between the fusebox and the rising water main (about 5 metres long).
(It was the same gauge and type we had years ago from our telephone to
an earth stake to enable Party Line working).
No RCDs or MCBs to be seen, just a 1960s Wylex fuse box. What-a-laugh.
On 23/12/2022 18:51, Scott wrote:
I am not following your line of argument at all. A 1950s toaster had
a three pin plug with one pin of the pins connected to earth. No-one
would consider setting up equipotential bonding between the toaster,
the kettle and the food mixer.
If the food mixer was double insulated, the metal parts would be
floating. If it wasn't the mains earth wire creates the equipotential bonding.
... many if not most water pipes are made of plastic.
Mine are made of copper, but, in any case, until recently, if you had
a gap with plastic, there had to be an earth wire connected to the
other metal parts. I imagine the sink would also need an earth wire,
if all the pipes to it were plastic.
One of the articles I looked at, when researching for this thread,
suggests that the use of RCDs has resulted in a relaxation of the
earth bonding rules.
On 23/12/2022 18:51, Scott wrote:
I am not following your line of argument at all. A 1950s toaster had
a three pin plug with one pin of the pins connected to earth. No-one
would consider setting up equipotential bonding between the toaster,
the kettle and the food mixer.
If the food mixer was double insulated, the metal parts would be
floating. If it wasn't the mains earth wire creates the equipotential >bonding.
... many if not most water pipes are made of plastic.
Mine are made of copper, but, in any case, until recently, if you had a
gap with plastic, there had to be an earth wire connected to the other
metal parts. I imagine the sink would also need an earth wire, if all
the pipes to it were plastic.
One of the articles I looked at, when researching for this thread,
suggests that the use of RCDs has resulted in a relaxation of the earth >bonding rules.
On Fri, 23 Dec 2022 19:12:39 +0000, David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
On 23/12/2022 18:51, Scott wrote:
I am not following your line of argument at all. A 1950s toaster had
a three pin plug with one pin of the pins connected to earth. No-one
would consider setting up equipotential bonding between the toaster,
the kettle and the food mixer.
If the food mixer was double insulated, the metal parts would be
floating. If it wasn't the mains earth wire creates the equipotential
bonding.
I doubt if double insulated was thought of in the 1950s.
I must have misunderstood the comment about connecting the earth screw
is to the chassis being dangerous. Clearly, it is the chassis that
requires to be earthed to create the equpotential effect that you
speak of.
... many if not most water pipes are made of plastic.
Mine are made of copper, but, in any case, until recently, if you had a
gap with plastic, there had to be an earth wire connected to the other
metal parts. I imagine the sink would also need an earth wire, if all
the pipes to it were plastic.
Unless you accept the premise that a plastic pipe filled with water is conductive, which I am highly sceptical about.
One of the articles I looked at, when researching for this thread,
suggests that the use of RCDs has resulted in a relaxation of the earth
bonding rules.
I think that is right but going back to where we started, the
suggestion that it is dangerous to connect the metal chassis to the (electrical) earth cannot possibly be correct. Before RCDs this was
AIUI the main protection in the event of a fault..
On 23/12/2022 10:04, Brian Gaff wrote:
It escapes me as to why they did not start to adopt DRM Am broadcasting
when it first came out, as it was reasonably good and you could hear most
stations during the day.
Few DRM receivers on sale, few cars with DRM? How many years would it
take to get enough DRM receivers in use to make it profitable for
commercial stations and the BBC were committed to DAB which has advantages and lots of receivers in homes and cars.
But the original question was about medium wave, and DRM is pretty good at >giving clean mono output when I attended a demo. No its not hi if, but its >better than am with its crackling and other noises. Seems silly to not use >the medium wave band in my view. Of course there are limits to the >interference and fading it can cope with, but its better than I expected it >to be even on short wave stations.
You are comparing things that were not the case when I attended te demo of
DRM.
As a matter of interest, did you think DRM audio was better than DAB?
On 24/12/2022 12:56, Scott wrote:
As a matter of interest, did you think DRM audio was better than DAB?
It shouldn't be, as it uses similar codecs, and the bit rates available
on short and medium wave are lower than even the squashed bit rates >reportedly used for DAB.
(Some of the first generation codecs were speech only.)
On 24/12/2022 12:56, Scott wrote:
As a matter of interest, did you think DRM audio was better than DAB?
It shouldn't be, as it uses similar codecs, and the bit rates available on short and medium wave are lower than even the squashed bit rates
reportedly used for DAB.
(Some of the first generation codecs were speech only.)
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:45:58 -0000, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
But the original question was about medium wave, and DRM is pretty good at >>giving clean mono output when I attended a demo. No its not hi if, but its >>better than am with its crackling and other noises. Seems silly to not use >>the medium wave band in my view. Of course there are limits to the >>interference and fading it can cope with, but its better than I expected
it
to be even on short wave stations.
You are comparing things that were not the case when I attended te demo
of
DRM.
As a matter of interest, did you think DRM audio was better than DAB?
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 14:00:52 +0000, David Woolley <david@ex.djwhome.demon.invalid> wrote:
On 24/12/2022 12:56, Scott wrote:
As a matter of interest, did you think DRM audio was better than DAB?
It shouldn't be, as it uses similar codecs, and the bit rates available
on short and medium wave are lower than even the squashed bit rates >>reportedly used for DAB.
(Some of the first generation codecs were speech only.)
Pretty terrible according thi this: http://s836646369.websitehome.co.uk/public_html/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/project-mayflower-summary-report.pdf
The audience research demonstrates that the panel found the experience
of DRM better than the AM they had had before. When it worked, it
offered consistent and clear audio, which was quantifiably better than
AM. This is even though the DRM signal permitted a maximum audio
bit-rate of around 22 kbps - and a proportion of that was used to
transmit parametric stereo information, leaving about 18 kbps for the
AAC audio itself.
I like the 'When it worked' it. This does not sound like a vote of confidence in its reliability :-)
(AIUI AAC is more comparable with DAB+)
If you want good AM reception at home, you'll need at least a
communication receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
Stereo systems are notorious for poor AM performance.
I'd suggest a magnetic antenna rather than an electric one.
In article <k0jgmsF8ighU1@mid.individual.net>, Spike ><Aero.Spike@mail.invalid> wrote:
If you want good AM reception at home, you'll need at least a
communication receiver designed for that band, and a specialist aerial.
Stereo systems are notorious for poor AM performance.
Sadly true in general. However if you're lucky you may be able to find an >ancient Armstrong 600 range AM/FM tuner in decent working condition. The >desiger was a radio ham and made a point of it working well across a range >that covered the MW and LW bands *including* the range in between them! >Double IF, balanced mixer, etc. Has a ferrite rod, but also a socket to >select an external antenna.
(And if you alter the filtering you can change it to being a SW RX as well. >He did do that for fun. 8-] )
Alas, the 'good condition' bit is probably a challenge nowdays. And there
is so much interference, etc, that I guess you'd be lucky to get a good >signal at your antenna anyway. :-/
After all the main bbc networks are stereo, as is Carsick FM
On 23/12/2022 14:18, Mark Carver wrote:
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
I used to get fantastic results by using a croc clip on the grille of
my bedroom's storage heater as an Earth for the radios I used to
build :-)
But that was probably all before the house had various digital
devices, switch mode power supplies and phone lines carrying VDSL2
broadband, all  radiating noise. Add a few neighbours with the same
and some cheap Chinese made battery chargers and/or solar panels on
their roofs and the results become rather disappointing.
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
I used to get fantastic results by using a croc clip on the grille of my bedroom's storage heater as an Earth for the radios I used to build :-)
On 27/12/2022 15:20, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 23/12/2022 14:18, Mark Carver wrote:
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
I used to get fantastic results by using a croc clip on the grille of
my bedroom's storage heater as an Earth for the radios I used to
build :-)
But that was probably all before the house had various digital
devices, switch mode power supplies and phone lines carrying VDSL2
broadband, all  radiating noise. Add a few neighbours with the same
and some cheap Chinese made battery chargers and/or solar panels on
their roofs and the results become rather disappointing.
Yes, quite, it was 50 years ago. Mind you, 1500m LW had CRT timebase
whistles all over it in the evenings, something you don't get today !
On 27/12/2022 16:13, Mark Carver wrote:We have serious receivers to receive in AAA and Top50 Banks
On 27/12/2022 15:20, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 23/12/2022 14:18, Mark Carver wrote:
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
I used to get fantastic results by using a croc clip on the grille of >>> my bedroom's storage heater as an Earth for the radios I used to
build :-)
But that was probably all before the house had various digital
devices, switch mode power supplies and phone lines carrying VDSL2
broadband, all radiating noise. Add a few neighbours with the same
and some cheap Chinese made battery chargers and/or solar panels on
their roofs and the results become rather disappointing.
Yes, quite, it was 50 years ago. Mind you, 1500m LW had CRT timebase whistles all over it in the evenings, something you don't get today !Yes that was annoying, and we didn't even have a telly.
I tried to fix it with a 1000uF capacitor across the 250-0-250V
secondary of the mains transformer of a valve radio. It worked until the capacitor shorted. Fortunately I had a spare transformer.
--
Max Demian
On 27/12/2022 16:13, Mark Carver wrote:
On 27/12/2022 15:20, Brian Gregory wrote:
On 23/12/2022 14:18, Mark Carver wrote:
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
I used to get fantastic results by using a croc clip on the grille of
my bedroom's storage heater as an Earth for the radios I used to
build :-)
But that was probably all before the house had various digital
devices, switch mode power supplies and phone lines carrying VDSL2
broadband, all radiating noise. Add a few neighbours with the same
and some cheap Chinese made battery chargers and/or solar panels on
their roofs and the results become rather disappointing.
Yes, quite, it was 50 years ago. Mind you, 1500m LW had CRT timebase whistles all over it in the evenings, something you don't get today !Yes that was annoying, and we didn't even have a telly.
I tried to fix it with a 1000uF capacitor across the 250-0-250V
secondary of the mains transformer of a valve radio. It worked until the capacitor shorted. Fortunately I had a spare transformer.
--
Max Demian
On Tuesday, 27 December 2022 at 17:23:43 UTC, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/12/2022 16:13, Mark Carver wrote:
On 27/12/2022 15:20, Brian Gregory wrote:Yes that was annoying, and we didn't even have a telly.
On 23/12/2022 14:18, Mark Carver wrote:
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
I used to get fantastic results by using a croc clip on the grille of >>>>> my bedroom's storage heater as an Earth for the radios I used to
build :-)
But that was probably all before the house had various digital
devices, switch mode power supplies and phone lines carrying VDSL2
broadband, all radiating noise. Add a few neighbours with the same
and some cheap Chinese made battery chargers and/or solar panels on
their roofs and the results become rather disappointing.
Yes, quite, it was 50 years ago. Mind you, 1500m LW had CRT timebase
whistles all over it in the evenings, something you don't get today !
I tried to fix it with a 1000uF capacitor across the 250-0-250V
secondary of the mains transformer of a valve radio. It worked until the
capacitor shorted. Fortunately I had a spare transformer.
An electrolytic across 500V AC - not surprised it shorted <1s IME.
On 29/12/2022 12:49, R. Mark Clayton wrote:
On Tuesday, 27 December 2022 at 17:23:43 UTC, Max Demian wrote:No, actually I think it was a paper 0.1uF.
On 27/12/2022 16:13, Mark Carver wrote:An electrolytic across 500V AC - not surprised it shorted <1s IME.
On 27/12/2022 15:20, Brian Gregory wrote:Yes that was annoying, and we didn't even have a telly.
On 23/12/2022 14:18, Mark Carver wrote:
I grew up in a house with TT Earthing (It still is TT in fact)
I used to get fantastic results by using a croc clip on the grille of >>>>> my bedroom's storage heater as an Earth for the radios I used to
build :-)
But that was probably all before the house had various digital
devices, switch mode power supplies and phone lines carrying VDSL2
broadband, all radiating noise. Add a few neighbours with the same
and some cheap Chinese made battery chargers and/or solar panels on >>>> their roofs and the results become rather disappointing.
Yes, quite, it was 50 years ago. Mind you, 1500m LW had CRT timebase
whistles all over it in the evenings, something you don't get today !
I tried to fix it with a 1000uF capacitor across the 250-0-250V
secondary of the mains transformer of a valve radio. It worked until the >> capacitor shorted. Fortunately I had a spare transformer.
--
Max Demian
On 23/12/2022 18:51, Scott wrote:
the
inside of your house isn't too far away from the earth around it, but... many if not most water pipes are made of plastic.
with PME type systems, it can still be sufficiently different to give
you a jolt which might not kill you directly, but might, for example,
cause you to fall.
For the cooker, etc., the connection is likely to be through the mains
earth wire. For the kitchen sink, there may be an earth bonding wire,
or it may rely on the water pipes leading to a bonding wire.
I've got a blue plastic water main that comes up out of the ground, but
every other pipe in the house after the stop cock is copper.
Actually, our house before we ripped it down and rebuilt it, was a TT >Earthing system, with a crappy old piece of 16ish SWG wire running
between the fusebox and the rising water main (about 5 metres long).
(It was the same gauge and type we had years ago from our telephone to
an earth stake to enable Party Line working).
No RCDs or MCBs to be seen, just a 1960s Wylex fuse box. What-a-laugh.
On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
truest earth.
Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
thus
On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
truest earth.
Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that
around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit
the spire conductor!
https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
Yes, Our house has no earth bonding on any of the pipe work (water or
gas) or a meal sink in the Utility Room. Apparently the regs don't call
for it any more (because of the RCDs we have)
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 06:55:57 -0800 (PST), David Paste
<pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
My expectations are: (1) a car radio is designed for use in a car and
(2) the car is likely to be outdoors and not surrounded by electronic devices.
Op 22-12-2022 om 16:07 schreef Scott:
On Thu, 22 Dec 2022 06:55:57 -0800 (PST), David PasteDo you have a car without electronic devices ?
<pastedavid@gmail.com> wrote:
How come my car car gets much better AM reception than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself.
My expectations are: (1) a car radio is designed for use in a car and
(2) the car is likely to be outdoors and not surrounded by electronic
devices.
Maybe I did not make myself clear but when I said 'a car radio is
designed for use in a car' perhaps I should have added 'and a car is
designed for use with its radio'.
On 04/01/2023 12:10, Scott wrote:
Maybe I did not make myself clear but when I said 'a car radio is
designed for use in a car' perhaps I should have added 'and a car is
designed for use with its radio'.
Cars used to be metal with a longish antenna on a metal ground plane,
radios used in the home rarely have an external antenna.
Now cars tend to have a tiny antenna often mounted on plastic. I know
they are usually tuned and have amplification but you can never beat a
proper antenna.
According to OP, 'How come my car car gets much better AM reception
than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna
arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil
of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself'.
Does this fit your definition of a 'tiny antenna'?
On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
thus
On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your >>>> truest earth.
Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that
around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit
the spire conductor!
https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I
lived in Cantabria in the 70's!
On 04/01/2023 14:01, Scott wrote:
According to OP, 'How come my car car gets much better AM reception
than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna
arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil
of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself'.
Does this fit your definition of a 'tiny antenna'?
Most seem to have small "fin" like things on the roof. Unless they are
all covert police vehicles :-)
I doubt any have a ferrite rod inside the body!
In article <tovot4$1td6p$2@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
thus
On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your >>>>> truest earth.
Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural
area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that
around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit
the spire conductor!
https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I
lived in Cantabria in the 70's!
Yes the very same down hills road. Been there since 1888 IIRC makes a
not bad TX site had to use four aerials on each corner to get an Ommni pattern.
It used to have the SSDAB TX there but thats now been moved to Gog
Magog and Coldhams road. TX list to be altered!..
On 04/01/2023 14:01, Scott wrote:
According to OP, 'How come my car car gets much better AM reception
than my home stereo, even though I have a dedicated AM antenna
arranged as well as I can, whilst the car has what I assume is a coil
of wire on a ferrite rod within the metal body of the car itself'.
Does this fit your definition of a 'tiny antenna'?
Most seem to have small "fin" like things on the roof. Unless they are
all covert police vehicles :-)
I doubt any have a ferrite rod inside the body!
Now cars tend to have a tiny antenna often mounted on plastic. I knowHowever you can use a proper antenna to beat someone.
they are usually tuned and have amplification but you can never beat a
proper antenna.
On Wed 04/01/2023 15:37, tony sayer wrote:
In article <tovot4$1td6p$2@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth >>>> thus
On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your >>>>>> truest earth.
Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural >>>>> area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better
earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that >>>> around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit >>>> the spire conductor!
https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up
that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I
lived in Cantabria in the 70's!
Yes the very same down hills road. Been there since 1888 IIRC makes a
not bad TX site had to use four aerials on each corner to get an Ommni
pattern.
It used to have the SSDAB TX there but thats now been moved to Gog
Magog and Coldhams road. TX list to be altered!..
Could never understand why aerials were never posted on the top of the >chimney at Addenbrookes given its height both asl and agl! Then there is
the spire at St Luke's on Victoria Road which could also have been used
for the same purpose - and its on higher ground than most of the city.
Got a superb organ as well.
In article <tp47h3$2gpgp$2...@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harro...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
On Wed 04/01/2023 15:37, tony sayer wrote:
In article <tovot4$1td6p$2...@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harro...@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
On Mon 02/01/2023 21:23, tony sayer wrote:
In article <to4cfd$1nt6d$1...@dont-email.me>, MB <M...@nospam.net> scribeth
thus
On 23/12/2022 13:25, Woody wrote:
Er, how far away is your local sub-station as that will likely be your
truest earth.
Hopefully, we were told of one case of a lightning strike in a rural >>>>> area and a house was destroyed because the lightning found a better >>>>> earth path through it than that at the sub station. :-(
It will go to where it likes and how it likes!..
Got the old catholic church he here in Cambridge saw a strike hit that >>>> around halfway up!, came in almost horizontal couldn't be arsed to hit >>>> the spire conductor!
https://goo.gl/maps/CKuUg1dxrXeSC5yf7
If you look very carefully theres a sort of ridge walkway halfway up >>>> that carries the TX aerial for Cambridge 105 FM radio!..
Ah, we are talking about 'the caffolik' as it was always known when I >>> lived in Cantabria in the 70's!
Yes the very same down hills road. Been there since 1888 IIRC makes a
not bad TX site had to use four aerials on each corner to get an Ommni
pattern.
It used to have the SSDAB TX there but thats now been moved to Gog
Magog and Coldhams road. TX list to be altered!..
Could never understand why aerials were never posted on the top of the >chimney at Addenbrookes given its height both asl and agl! Then there is >the spire at St Luke's on Victoria Road which could also have been used >for the same purpose - and its on higher ground than most of the city.
Got a superb organ as well.
We did ask them sometime ago when looking for a TX site for Cambridge
105 radio but they didn't what anything up there citing H&S among other things. Coverage plots showed it wasn't that good anyway!.
As to St Lukes the problem there is the spire itself there is a lot of attenuation thru stonework and I rather doubt they'd like much of an
aerial visible sticking u the "lights" thats wot they call the openings
in the spire.
I suspect that its a sod to get up there too if the catholic is anything like it just a few planks nailed to a couple of uprights with foot or
hand holds cut in them! Sod that! Theres are a couple of ladders there
now much safer!..
Some years ago when we set up the star radio TX at Ely cathedral we had
an analyser up there with a single di-pole on a long cable walking
around he walkway there was a 25 or more dB difference with the aerial
out in the open and then just inside a turret walkway! Very little
signal for rebroadcast purposes was inside the building belfry despite
it being some 140 feet above ground level!!
--
Tony Sayer
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.JOIN A CERTIFIED FIREARM SHOP FOR FREE
Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
However you can use a proper antenna to beat someone.
Bill
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