https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
or even no broadband at all.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
or even no broadband at all.
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still
be going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV
streaming or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be
going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general >https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off. "Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a business and provide what their viewers want.
Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:56:27 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be >>> going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming >>> or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
They can do it tomorrow if they like, as far as I'm concerned. I
haven't watched Freeview for more than a year now.
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off. "Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a business and provide what their viewers want.
Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Rod.
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:56:27 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be >>> going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming >>> or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
They can do it tomorrow if they like, as far as I'm concerned. I
haven't watched Freeview for more than a year now.
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off. "Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a business and provide what their viewers want.
Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message >news:tk53ph9kobp3r3fdnuiipptvholivcdk3l@4ax.com...
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off.
"Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be
necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the
licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a
business and provide what their viewers want.
I suspect that copy-protection is one of the issues. A lot depends on the >charging model. If you can buy specific programmes that you want to watch, >and the cost of watching only those programmes is less than the annual >licence fee, then it will be to the punters' benefit. But if you still have >to take out an annual "licence" that covers all programmes provided by a >specific broadcaster, then it could end up more expensive if you need
several accounts to cover the various different channels that you want to >watch.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be >going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
or even no broadband at all.
I use iPlayer a few times a week when BBC Scotland opt out of network programmes for some local rubbish but otherwise it is quite rare for me
to do so, partly because it is so much easier and quicker to just select
an off air channel.
On 08/12/2022 09:48, Phil_M wrote:
For as long as the broadcaster allows you access. It's 'their' show,
How do you record streaming to watch later? I've just started
watching Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago. How long will the
streamed programmes be available for?
not 'yours'.
On 08/12/2022 09:46, Jeff Layman wrote:
Then you are in a fairly small minority. Just because you have no
interest in mainstream TV reception doesn't mean that everybody else has
no interest. From the Telegraph article:
I remember long ago, well before wide availability of fast broadband,
there were posting and writing that "everyone" watched TV online when it
was very obviously untrue.
I use iPlayer a few times a week when BBC Scotland opt out of network >programmes for some local rubbish but otherwise it is quite rare for me
to do so, partly because it is so much easier and quicker to just select
an off air channel.
On 08/12/2022 10:37, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 09:48, Phil_M wrote:
For as long as the broadcaster allows you access. It's 'their'
How do you record streaming to watch later? I've just started
watching Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago. How long will the
streamed programmes be available for?
show, not 'yours'.
There is need for a permanent archive of programmes which can never be deleted - at a price. It gives you the same flexibility as if you buy
a DVD: you can watch the programme as many times as you like after
that, safe in the knowledge that it will never be deleted, either
because the viewing time has expired or for editorial/legal reasons.
"SH" <i.l...@spam.com> wrote in message news:tmr430$l33f$1...@dont-email.me...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streamingI wonder how the BBC will continue to fund itself when terrestrial
or even no broadband at all.
TV is eventually switched off.
Currently their forced funding model relies solely on the entirely false claim that 'Freeview doesn't support encryption, as would be required
for subscription-based services'.
I doubt if they'd continue to provide scheduled linear broadcast
service purely for the Freesat platform, as the audience would likely be
too small to make it economically viable.
But looking at it from another angle, assuming broadcast radio
continues in the VHF bands, much of the infrastructure required for
Freeview broadcasts would still have to be maintained in any event
(since the two often share the same masts, network infrastructure
etc), so the cost saving of a full switch off is likely to be quite
small.
Then you are in a fairly small minority. Just because you have no
interest in mainstream TV reception doesn't mean that everybody else has
no interest. From the Telegraph article:
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:28:47 +0000, SH <i.l...@spam.com> wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be >going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streamingPhilosophically speaking, is this just a an exercise in 'back to the
or even no broadband at all.
future' to the days of cable television but substituting fibre optic
cable for Rediffusion?
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:56:27 +0000, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be >> going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general >https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-generalThey can do it tomorrow if they like, as far as I'm concerned. I
haven't watched Freeview for more than a year now.
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off. "Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a business and provide what their viewers want.
Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Rod.
How do you record streaming to watch later? I've just startedFor as long as the broadcaster allows you access. It's 'their' show,
watching Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago. How long will the streamed programmes be available for?
On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 08:13:16 UTC, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:56:27 +0000, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:They can do it tomorrow if they like, as far as I'm concerned. I
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be >> >> going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming >> >> or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
haven't watched Freeview for more than a year now.
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off.
"Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be
necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the
licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a
business and provide what their viewers want.
Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...
"SH" <i.love@spam.com> wrote in message news:tmr430$l33f$1@dont-email.me...
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be
going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
or even no broadband at all.
I wonder how the BBC will continue to fund itself when terrestrial
TV is eventually switched off.
Currently their forced funding model relies solely on the entirely false >claim that 'Freeview doesn't support encryption, as would be required
for subscription-based services'.
I doubt if they'd continue to provide scheduled linear broadcast
service purely for the Freesat platform, as the audience would likely be
too small to make it economically viable.
But looking at it from another angle, assuming broadcast radio
continues in the VHF bands, much of the infrastructure required for
Freeview broadcasts would still have to be maintained in any event
(since the two often share the same masts, network infrastructure
etc), so the cost saving of a full switch off is likely to be quite
small.
On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 10:05:07 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:28:47 +0000, SH <i.l...@spam.com> wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/Philosophically speaking, is this just a an exercise in 'back to the
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be
going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
or even no broadband at all.
future' to the days of cable television but substituting fibre optic
cable for Rediffusion?
Not exactly - cable TV only carried TV, internet can carry just about anything.
On 08/12/2022 10:43, NY wrote:
On 08/12/2022 10:37, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 09:48, Phil_M wrote:
For as long as the broadcaster allows you access. It's 'their'
How do you record streaming to watch later? I've just started
watching Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago. How long will the
streamed programmes be available for?
show, not 'yours'.
There is need for a permanent archive of programmes which can never be
deleted - at a price. It gives you the same flexibility as if you buy
a DVD: you can watch the programme as many times as you like after
that, safe in the knowledge that it will never be deleted, either
because the viewing time has expired or for editorial/legal reasons.
I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHDMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
a large-screen television.
No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
On 08/12/2022 10:43, NY wrote:
On 08/12/2022 10:37, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 09:48, Phil_M wrote:
For as long as the broadcaster allows you access. It's 'their'
How do you record streaming to watch later? I've just started
watching Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago. How long will the
streamed programmes be available for?
show, not 'yours'.
There is need for a permanent archive of programmes which can never be
deleted - at a price. It gives you the same flexibility as if you buy
a DVD: you can watch the programme as many times as you like after
that, safe in the knowledge that it will never be deleted, either
because the viewing time has expired or for editorial/legal reasons.
I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.
I've got the iPlayer configured to BBC South West for that reason :-)Depends what he meant by success ? Number of backslapping industry
When the BBC numpty at the DCMS select committee said Spotlight was
the most successful 6.30 news programme, did he mean it was more
successful than Reporting Scotland?
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be going
No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025
<everyone> should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
I would really miss the ability to make my own copies of programmes so I can >play them (eg using VLC) as I want - eg faster than normal but with the >ability to go back and play bits again and to single-step through >"interesting" bits - eg "I wonder where that mansion is that they've used as >a location - grab a frame and post it on a forum to ask people".
A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested inOf course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...
a large-screen television.
based BBC could do the same.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHD streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'llMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment thatA prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet,
Smart TV...
a large-screen television.
probably remain so)
On 08/12/2022 11:25, Woody wrote:
No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone>
should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
No !! And BT have never said that. By the end of 2025 the copper truck
cables (from exchange to FTTC cabinets) will be decommissioned.
Millions will still be relying on their copper 'cabinet side' lines well
into the 2030s using FTTC (and VoIP based phone 'lines')
On 08/12/2022 10:59, Scott wrote:
Depends what he meant by success ? Number of backslapping industry
I've got the iPlayer configured to BBC South West for that reason :-)
When the BBC numpty at the DCMS select committee said Spotlight was
the most successful 6.30 news programme, did he mean it was more
successful than Reporting Scotland?
awards received, Facebook 'Likes', or audience figures ?
based BBC could do the same.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHD >streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'llMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
a large-screen television.
probably remain so)
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 11:32:16 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested inOf course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself >>>> when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...
a large-screen television.
Why not? Practically anything you can watch on a computer you can also
watch on a TV. They both have the same kind of input connections
(HDMI) and will display whatever you care to plug into them.
On 08/12/2022 13:04, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHDMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in >>>> a large-screen television.
streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'll
probably remain so)
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
Many may have "computers" without knowing it: the ones in their TVs and
PVRs. And learning how to use the on-demand features of a Freeview Play >device is a long way short of mastering Windows or Linux.
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHDMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
a large-screen television.
streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'll
probably remain so)
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
How may people would you say have broadband connection without knowing
it?
On 08/12/2022 13:51, Scott wrote:
My mum has a PC and a Smart Telly in her house (And 40 Mb/s FTTC because
How may people would you say have broadband connection without knowing
it?
it is now cheaper than 17 Mb/s ADSL she used to have). She can't operate >either of them, I do it for her when I visit.
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHD >streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'llMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
a large-screen television.
probably remain so)
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
VoIP, but
that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250 houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be VoIP, but
that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250 houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:54:11 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 13:51, Scott wrote:
My mum has a PC and a Smart Telly in her house (And 40 Mb/s FTTC because
How may people would you say have broadband connection without knowing
it?
it is now cheaper than 17 Mb/s ADSL she used to have). She can't operate
either of them, I do it for her when I visit.
Some people value their independence and I tend to think it is
insulting to think it can be taken away. If she can't operate the
telly I expect she is pretty p**sed off about it.
That said, I would suggest if you consider how badly the FM switchoff
has gone, the political consequences of ending broadcast TV would be unsustainable for any government.
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually >you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
VoIP, but
that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
pole)
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground fed,
but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to provide FTTP.
On 08/12/2022 10:45, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 10:43, NY wrote:
On 08/12/2022 10:37, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 09:48, Phil_M wrote:
For as long as the broadcaster allows you access. It's 'their'
How do you record streaming to watch later? I've just started
watching Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago. How long will
the streamed programmes be available for?
show, not 'yours'.
There is need for a permanent archive of programmes which can never
be deleted - at a price. It gives you the same flexibility as if you
buy a DVD: you can watch the programme as many times as you like
after that, safe in the knowledge that it will never be deleted,
either because the viewing time has expired or for editorial/legal
reasons.
I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.
LOL!
In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8sf1oilgij9p0vtpo7@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHDMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
a large-screen television.
streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'll
probably remain so)
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
The large screnn tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8sf1oilgij9p0vtpo7@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
The large screen tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
VoIP, but
that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
pole)
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground fed,
but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to provide FTTP.
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 03:07:11 -0800 (PST), "R. Mark Clayton" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 08:13:16 UTC, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:56:27 +0000, Java Jive <ja...@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:They can do it tomorrow if they like, as far as I'm concerned. I
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be
going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming >> >> or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general >> >https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
haven't watched Freeview for more than a year now.
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off.
"Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be
necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the
licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a
business and provide what their viewers want.
Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...
A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
a large-screen television.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement pole)
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
VoIP, but
that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
pole)
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground fed,
but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to provide
FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHD >streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'll >probably remain so)Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
a large-screen television.
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
On 08/12/2022 15:26, Jeff Layman wrote:Shit happens
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a
gable-end wall.
I wonder whether it is cheaper to wind the fibre around an existing
copper cable (which is no longer connected electrically) or to remove
the copper and replace it with a fibre cable (fibre pre-wound round a support).
How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole or
a tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground fibre
at the point where it comes out of the ground? Will each pole have
fan-out points to all the cables that radiate from it, and will BTOR engineers be able to splice in a new fibre, making good the
connections at the pole and the fibre termination point in the house?
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 12:35:55 +0000, Roderick Stewart <rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 11:32:16 +0000, Scott
<newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested inOf course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet, >>>> but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself >>>> when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...
a large-screen television.
Why not? Practically anything you can watch on a computer you can also >watch on a TV. They both have the same kind of input connections
(HDMI) and will display whatever you care to plug into them.
Assuming broadband connection and IT capability, that is. Will the
BBC be providing free broadband, free router, installation, set up and training for all citizens who require it? Otherwise, I can see this
being a vote-loser in an election.
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 14:28:34 +0000 (GMT), charles
<charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8sf1oilgij9p0vtpo7@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHD >>>> streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'llMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in >>>>> a large-screen television.
probably remain so)
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
The large screnn tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
In article <tmr5mt$lr47$1@dont-email.me>,
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director generalAt which point it will be impossible to watch any program without
the broadcaster knowing that you have.
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 13:04:46 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHDMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in
a large-screen television.
streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'll
probably remain so)
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
Even my old "dumb" flat screen TV could display the output of a [free] BT TV [Sport] box, which of course came over the internet. A stand-alone box to do this is 30 or less.
In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be
VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250 >>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a >>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure
plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
pole)
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 13:09:24 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 12:35:55 +0000, Roderick Stewart
<rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 11:32:16 +0000, ScottAssuming broadband connection and IT capability, that is. Will the
<newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested inOf course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself >> >>>> when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...
a large-screen television.
Why not? Practically anything you can watch on a computer you can also
watch on a TV. They both have the same kind of input connections
(HDMI) and will display whatever you care to plug into them.
BBC be providing free broadband, free router, installation, set up and
training for all citizens who require it? Otherwise, I can see this
being a vote-loser in an election.
Like switching off 405 lines?
Where I lived sixty years ago there was no trunk exchange in the small town, so six pairs of cables ran over the hills to somewhere else on poles. Most have gone now, but you can still see them in places with what is probably a PCM trunk slung betweenthem https://goo.gl/maps/qJ21PwDn6QskVFdDA
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 07:46:48 -0800 (PST), "R. Mark Clayton" <notyalckram@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 13:04:46 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHD >>>> streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'llMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in >>>>> a large-screen television.
probably remain so)
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
Even my old "dumb" flat screen TV could display the output of a [free] BT TV [Sport] box, which of course came over the internet. A stand-alone box to do this is £30 or less.
At the risk of repetition, my point is that not everyone has - or
wants - the Internet.
On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually >>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement >>>> pole)
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be >>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250 >>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a >>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure >>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both
start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
will enter the house?
At present, the copper wire enters the house
through the gable-end wall and runs internally across the the loft to
where it descends internally to the the
phone socket. Conveniently there is a double mains power socket close to
the current phone socket. I assume they would try to keep the position
of any new socket relatively close to the current one if there's power >available.
On 08/12/2022 15:43, NY wrote:
How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole or
a tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground fibre
at the point where it comes out of the ground? Will each pole have
fan-out points to all the cables that radiate from it, and will BTOR
engineers be able to splice in a new fibre, making good the
connections at the pole and the fibre termination point in the house?
Shit happens
Took Openreach 6 days (and a lot of engineers) to splice everything back together
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables
On 08/12/2022 15:43, NY wrote:
How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole or
a tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground fibre
at the point where it comes out of the ground? Will each pole have
fan-out points to all the cables that radiate from it, and will BTOR
engineers be able to splice in a new fibre, making good the
connections at the pole and the fibre termination point in the house?
Shit happens
Took Openreach 6 days (and a lot of engineers) to splice everything back together
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables
On 08/12/2022 15:26, Jeff Layman wrote:
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30 metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end wall.
I wonder whether it is cheaper to wind the fibre around an existing
copper cable (which is no longer connected electrically) or to remove
the copper and replace it with a fibre cable (fibre pre-wound round a support).
How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole or a
tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground fibre at
the point where it comes out of the ground? Will each pole have fan-out points to all the cables that radiate from it, and will BTOR engineers
be able to splice in a new fibre, making good the connections at the
pole and the fibre termination point in the house?
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:56:27 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be >>> going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming >>> or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
They can do it tomorrow if they like, as far as I'm concerned. I
haven't watched Freeview for more than a year now.
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off. "Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a business and provide what their viewers want.
Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started.
It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Rod.
On 08/12/2022 14:08, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:54:11 +0000, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 13:51, Scott wrote:
My mum has a PC and a Smart Telly in her house (And 40 Mb/s FTTC
How may people would you say have broadband connection without
knowing it?
because it is now cheaper than 17 Mb/s ADSL she used to have). She
can't operate either of them, I do it for her when I visit.
Some people value their independence and I tend to think it is
insulting to think it can be taken away. If she can't operate the
telly I expect she is pretty p**sed off about it.
My parents, who are in their 80s,
On 08/12/2022 08:13, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Wed, 7 Dec 2022 22:56:27 +0000, Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid>
wrote:
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will
still be
going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming >>>> or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
They can do it tomorrow if they like, as far as I'm concerned. I
haven't watched Freeview for more than a year now.
Curiously, no particular reason is given for wanting to switch it off.
"Imagine a world that is internet-only" - but why? He doesn't say. He
just wants to switch it off. The fundamental reason isn't hard to
guess though, as the internet already has the mechanisms that would be
necessary for a paywall whereas traditional broacasting hasn't. As
long as a paywall is implemented *instead of* and not *as well as* the
licence fee, and we don't have to pay the BBC to watch other
broadcasters' programmes, I'd be quite happy with that. It works for
the likes of Amazon and Netflix, so I don't see why it couldn't work
for the BBC too, though they'd have to learn very quickly how to run a
business and provide what their viewers want.
Of course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself
when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Rod.
How do you record streaming to watch later? I've just started watching
Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago. How long will the streamed programmes be available for?
Phil M
I wonder whether it is cheaper to wind the fibre around an existing copper cable
(which is no longer connected electrically) or to remove the copper and replace
it with a fibre cable (fibre pre-wound round a support).
How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole or a tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground fibre at the point where it comes out of the ground?
Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it will enter
the house?
Mark Carver wrote:
<https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables>
Machinery photo looks a little like a posthole borer used on farms, but AFAIAA
they don't usually have toothed edges to the auger, and of course would normally
be vertical, not horizontal. Some sort of duct tunnelling device perhaps? Anyone know?
On 08/12/2022 15:55, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:43, NY wrote:
How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole
or a tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground
fibre at the point where it comes out of the ground? Will each pole
have fan-out points to all the cables that radiate from it, and will
BTOR engineers be able to splice in a new fibre, making good the
connections at the pole and the fibre termination point in the house?
Shit happens
Took Openreach 6 days (and a lot of engineers) to splice everything
back together
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables
Machinery photo looks a little like a posthole borer used on farms,
but AFAIAA they don't usually have toothed edges to the auger, and of
course would normally be vertical, not horizontal. Some sort of duct tunnelling device perhaps? Anyone know?
Java Jive wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:
<https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables>
Machinery photo looks a little like a posthole borer used on farms, but AFAIAA
they don't usually have toothed edges to the auger, and of course would normally
be vertical, not horizontal. Some sort of duct tunnelling device perhaps? >> Anyone know?
I'd guess it's a vertical auger for drilling holes for poured concrete/rebar piles?
On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house,
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be >>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the
horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about
250
houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV
as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure >>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
eventually
you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a
replacement
pole)
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they
both
start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
will enter the house? At present, the copper wire enters the house
through the gable-end wall and runs internally across the the loft to
where it descends internally to the the
phone socket. Conveniently there is a double mains power socket close
to the current phone socket. I assume they would try to keep the
position of any new socket relatively close to the current one if
there's power available.
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:18:37 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually >>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement >>>>> pole)
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be >>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the >>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250 >>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a >>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure >>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end >>>> wall.
My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both >>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
will enter the house?
If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have someone else's cable running down my outside wall? I will object
until the neighbours agree to essential repairs.
On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:18:37 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff LaymanDon't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually >>>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement >>>>>> pole)
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be >>>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the >>>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250 >>>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction >>>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a >>>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure >>>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground >>>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or >>>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30 >>>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end >>>>> wall.
My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both >>>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart. >>>
will enter the house?
If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
someone else's cable running down my outside wall? I will object
until the neighbours agree to essential repairs.
If your are a leaseholder that would usually be a matter for the freeholder.
On 08/12/2022 15:55, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:43, NY wrote:
How will a damaged fibre will be replaced - eg if a car hits a pole or
a tall vehicle hits a cable, or if someone strims an underground
fibre at the point where it comes out of the ground? Will each pole
have fan-out points to all the cables that radiate from it, and will
BTOR engineers be able to splice in a new fibre, making good the
connections at the pole and the fibre termination point in the house?
Shit happens
Took Openreach 6 days (and a lot of engineers) to splice everything
back together
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables
Yes. I wasn't talking about how long or short the time will be before
service is restored.
I was talking about how it is physically restored, given that joining a replacement fibre to the truncated part of the existing fibre is a *lot*
more difficult than joining copper wires.
Jeff Layman wrote:
Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
will enter the house?
I think the official line is that the drop-cable has to come down to
ground level, get spliced and then if necessary go back up to e.g. first floor level, so that in future they can do tests from outside, without ladders; but I've heard of a handful of cases where the engineer on the
day takes a pragmatic approach and *will* route the fibre inside at
eaves level ...
In article <rUudnY_U85PyYgz-nZ2dnZfqn_GdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:08, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 13:54:11 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 13:51, Scott wrote:
My mum has a PC and a Smart Telly in her house (And 40 Mb/s FTTC
How may people would you say have broadband connection without
knowing it?
because it is now cheaper than 17 Mb/s ADSL she used to have). She
can't operate either of them, I do it for her when I visit.
Some people value their independence and I tend to think it is
insulting to think it can be taken away. If she can't operate the
telly I expect she is pretty p**sed off about it.
My parents, who are in their 80s,
What has being "in their 80s" have to do with anything. I'm in my 80s.
I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.
On 08/12/2022 10:43, NY wrote:
On 08/12/2022 10:37, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 09:48, Phil_M wrote:
How do you record streaming to watch later? I've just startedFor as long as the broadcaster allows you access. It's 'their'
watching Blue Planet 2 which I recorded ages ago. How long will the
streamed programmes be available for?
show, not 'yours'.
There is need for a permanent archive of programmes which can never be
deleted - at a price. It gives you the same flexibility as if you buy
a DVD: you can watch the programme as many times as you like after
that, safe in the knowledge that it will never be deleted, either
because the viewing time has expired or for editorial/legal reasons.
I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.
When the BBC numpty at the DCMS select committee said Spotlight was
the most successful 6.30 news programme, did he mean it was more
successful than Reporting Scotland?
No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
On Wednesday, 7 December 2022 at 23:05:33 UTC, Alexander wrote:
I wonder how the BBC will continue to fund itself when terrestrial
TV is eventually switched off.
Currently their forced funding model relies solely on the entirely false claim that 'Freeview doesn't support encryption, as would be required
for subscription-based services'.
Yes it did, was called ITV / ON digital (death bed renaming to spare ITV blushes) and was quickly and comprehensively hacked.
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:jve1fkFcqtjU6@mid.individual.net...
On 08/12/2022 11:25, Woody wrote:
No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone>
should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
No !! And BT have never said that. By the end of 2025 the copper truck
cables (from exchange to FTTC cabinets) will be decommissioned.
Millions will still be relying on their copper 'cabinet side' lines well
into the 2030s using FTTC (and VoIP based phone 'lines')
I think early publicity from BTOR (filtered via newspapers etc) implied
that
all houses would get FTTP, and that FTTC/VDSL would be withdrawn. That was the initial impression that I got when there was all the publicity a few months ago.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end wall.
On 08/12/2022 16:18, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:They run the fibre to a point where they can fix a splice box (CSP), to convert into the internal fibre run that leads to the ONT. You are not obliged to have the ONT near your copper master socket, only to
In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff Layman
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house,
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP
That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be >>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the >>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about >>>>>> 250
houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction
totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV
as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure >>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
eventually
you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a
replacement
pole)
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground
fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to
provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end >>>> wall.
My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they
both
start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart.
Don't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
will enter the house? At present, the copper wire enters the house
through the gable-end wall and runs internally across the the loft to
where it descends internally to the the
phone socket. Conveniently there is a double mains power socket close
to the current phone socket. I assume they would try to keep the
position of any new socket relatively close to the current one if
there's power available.
somewhere where there's power nearby. They prefer to have the CSP at
ground level, and outside where they can get to it.
https://www.increasebroadbandspeed.co.uk/fttp-full-fibre-broadband-installation
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 15:26:07 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30 >>metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end wall.
In my case, the copper cable from a pole across the road was removed
and replaced with the fibre. No point in keeping both as the copper
wouldn't be used and it would just add to the weight. They'll be doing
this to lots of installations so I guess the fibre must be designed
for the same conditions as the copper cable it replaces. It looks
pretty tough to me.
If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have someone else's cable running down my outside wall?
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:24:55 +0000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:18:37 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff LaymanDon't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually >>>>>>> you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement >>>>>>> pole)
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP >>>>>>>>>That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be >>>>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the >>>>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs.
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250 >>>>>>>> houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction >>>>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a >>>>>>>> matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure >>>>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground >>>>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to >>>>>>> provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or >>>>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30 >>>>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end >>>>>> wall.
My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both >>>>> start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart. >>>>
will enter the house?
If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
someone else's cable running down my outside wall? I will object
until the neighbours agree to essential repairs.
If your are a leaseholder that would usually be a matter for the freeholder.
I live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed.
Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
including ones that are much more robust than the one used by ONDigital.
Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.
On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have
someone else's cable running down my outside wall?
You'd have to look at your lease. In the case of my lease, the outside
of the walls belongs to the freeholder, but there is also a provision
giving a right to run cables, pipes, etc., through other flats.
"at all reasonable times during the said term on notice to permit the
Lessor and its lessees
with workmen and others to enter into and upon the Demised Premises or
any part thereof for the purpose of repairing any adjoining or
contiguous premises and for the purpose of making repairing maintaining >rebuilding cleansing lighting and keeping in order and good condition
all water pipes sewers drains watercourses electric wires and cables gas >pipes gutters party structures or other conveniences belonging to
serving or used for the same and
also for the purpose of laying down maintaining repairing and testing
water pipes sewers drains watercourses electric wires and cables and gas >pipes and for similar purposes the Lessor or its lessees (as the case
may be) making good all damage occasioned thereby to the Demised Premises"
Openreach are also a "statutory provider", which gives them some rights
over other's land, although I'm not sure if they apply in this case.
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 18:25:31 +0000, Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:You'd hope that the fact the provision of an xDSL signal over a crappy
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 15:26:07 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>I thought the scrap value of all the copper was the real driver.
wrote:
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, orIn my case, the copper cable from a pole across the road was removed
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end wall.
and replaced with the fibre. No point in keeping both as the copper
wouldn't be used and it would just add to the weight. They'll be doing
this to lots of installations so I guess the fibre must be designed
for the same conditions as the copper cable it replaces. It looks
pretty tough to me.
On 08/12/2022 18:19, Alexander wrote:
Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
including ones that are much more robust than the one used by ONDigital.
Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common
Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.
I think more accurately, there was provision for a card but I am fairly
sure it is not fitted in mine. I would think the chances of getting one fitted in a TV bought around the time of DSO is just about zero.
I don't think my TV has even had any softwate updates for years.
On 08/12/2022 17:26, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 17:24:55 +0000, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 16:36, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 16:18:37 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:34, charles wrote:
In article <tmsvmf$r4o7$2@dont-email.me>, Jeff LaymanDon't they have to run the fibre outside down the wall to wherever it >>>>> will enter the house?
<Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:52, Jeff Layman wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:12, Andy Burns wrote:If you currently have copper from a pole feeding your house, eventually
Woody wrote:
(supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone> should have FTTP >>>>>>>>>>That's not what's promised.
By 2025 nobody should have POTS, what they will have instead is be >>>>>>>>>> VoIP, but that might be over ADSL/VDSL/carrier-pigeon ...
I await to see what it will happen here, as there's no FTTP on the >>>>>>>>> horizon. Fortunately FTTC has sufficient speed for my needs. >>>>>>>>>
It does amuse me though, that living in a small village with about 250
houses, we are being surrounded by new estates under construction >>>>>>>>> totalling about 3000 houses. They will all have FTTP and cable TV as a
matter of course, as the underground pipes are in the infrastructure >>>>>>>>> plans. We, of course, have telephone poles...
you'll almost certainly have fibre fed from that pole (or a replacement
pole)
Consider that A Good Thing, because if you're currently underground >>>>>>>> fed, but without a duct, you'll have your front garden dug up to >>>>>>>> provide FTTP.
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or >>>>>>> does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30 >>>>>>> metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end >>>>>>> wall.
My copper wire is completely separate from the fible - although they both
start from the same pole. The brackets on the hose are about 18" apart. >>>>>
If so, is there some form of wayleave or is the consent of the
property owners needed? I live in a flat. Can I be compelled to have >>>> someone else's cable running down my outside wall? I will object
until the neighbours agree to essential repairs.
If your are a leaseholder that would usually be a matter for the freeholder.
I live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed.
I'm an ignoramus on tenements but thought there were often cable ducts
or conduits or the like which were common property ("pertinents"?). If >that's where current phones are run then I'd expect the fibre to be
pulled through them.
Alexander wrote:
Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot
"every"? I don't think so ...
There's not an awful lot of choice as I live in a bungalow! It
wouldn't bother me if they put the CSP near where the copper enters
now or ran the fibre down an outside wall to where the current phone
socket is inside the wall, and put the CSP there. The ONT would be
inside on the lounge wall near to where my router/modem is now.
Several different encryption schemes are suppored on DVB-T and T2,
Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot
On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 13:09:24 UTC, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 12:35:55 +0000, Roderick Stewart
<rj...@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 11:32:16 +0000, ScottAssuming broadband connection and IT capability, that is. Will the
<newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested inOf course the entire population isn't equipped for internet TV yet,
but then the entire population wasn't equipped for broadcasting itself >> >>>> when that started. It spread gradually over many years, and an
internet based BBC could do the same.
Maybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can >watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV... >> >>>
a large-screen television.
Why not? Practically anything you can watch on a computer you can also
watch on a TV. They both have the same kind of input connections
(HDMI) and will display whatever you care to plug into them.
BBC be providing free broadband, free router, installation, set up and
training for all citizens who require it? Otherwise, I can see this
being a vote-loser in an election.
Like switching off 405 lines?
Where I lived sixty years ago there was no trunk exchange in the small town, so
six pairs of cables ran over the hills to somewhere else on poles. Most have >gone now, but you can still see them in places with what is probably a PCM trunk
slung between them https://goo.gl/maps/qJ21PwDn6QskVFdDA
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
On 08/12/2022 15:26, Jeff Layman wrote:
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
The tensile strength of "copper" drop wires is from steel, not copper. <https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/the-secret-life-of-bt-dropwire-telephone-cable/>
Fibre optic cable also doesn't get its tensile strength from the fibre, although I haven't found the exact specification used by BT.
When did the spec for "copper" drop wire change? Back in the 1970s
my parents' phone line was very crackly and the GPO engineer
changed the drop cable from the house to the pole - and he gave me
the old cable. It was just two copper cores, each in separate
insulation that was bonded side by side in a figure of 8. There
was no steel tensile support - unless the "copper" wires were
really steel plated with copper.
Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common >Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.
The telephone lines run from a telegraph pole at the bottom of theI live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed. >>[...]
garden to each individual flat.
I don't understand this obsession with wanting to keep TV recordings,
I've got a hard drive still full of stuff I haven't watched once yet.
Seems that none of the houses there have TV aerials that c i can see
of?.
On 08/12/2022 11:25, Woody wrote:
No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone>
should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
I think that is very optimistic (or is pessimistic!).
What has being "in their 80s" have to do with anything. I'm in my 80s.
The large screnn tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
On 08/12/2022 15:26, Jeff Layman wrote:
Do they retain the copper wire to act as a support for the fibre, or
does it have enough tensile strength to support itself? It's about 30
metres from the pole to the house connection at the top of a gable-end
wall.
The tensile strength of "copper" drop wires is from steel, not copper. ><https://telecomgreen.co.uk/home-phone-repair/the-secret-life-of-bt-dropwire-telephone-cable/>
Fibre optic cable also doesn't get its tensile strength from the fibre, >although I haven't found the exact specification used by BT.
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 19:20:40 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
The telephone lines run from a telegraph pole at the bottom of theI live in Scotland so there is no freeholder. I am wondering if some
form of wayleave exists. Otherwise, I assume consent will be needed. >>>[...]
garden to each individual flat.
I don't think you need anyone's consent to run a cable overhead,
especially if it replaces one that's already present.
I live in an unadopted private road, and couldn't have Virginmedia's
cable service even if I wanted it, because apparently that would
require *every* householder in the road to sign a wayleave document to
give them permission to dig up the road for *any* household to have a
cable installed. That's what I was told anyway. I think it's because >technically the road belongs jointly to all of us.
But most of the houses have telephone cables slung from a pole, and my
copper cable was replaced with a fibre "cable" with no problems at
all. Maybe some of the others have been replaced too, but since they
look exactly the same from ground level I couldn't say.
On 08/12/2022 14:28, charles wrote:
In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8sf1oilgij9p0vtpo7@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
The large screen tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
There is the added problem that the mechanism (eg underlying protocols)
may change over time, leading to older internet-capable TVs not being
able to receive programmes from some catchup sites. I believe there have already been cases, though since they don't affect platforms I use, I've
not noted any examples.
If internet became the only means of "broadcasting", there would need to
be a *much* greater commitment to backward compatibility so a TV that
could once receive (for example) iPlayer can always receive it, even if
new features are added. But then that goes hand-in-hand with the policy (which is becoming rarer these days) of "only ever add features; never
remove legacy features" which applies to anything computer-related such
as versions of Windows or features in application programs.
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2, but
also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if not a completely new set.
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
In article <-rednZJfxvt7cg_-nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
NY <me@privacy.net> wrote:
When did the spec for "copper" drop wire change? Back in the 1970sI think you are referring to drop wire no.3. This was grey and figure
my parents' phone line was very crackly and the GPO engineer
changed the drop cable from the house to the pole - and he gave me
the old cable. It was just two copper cores, each in separate
insulation that was bonded side by side in a figure of 8. There
was no steel tensile support - unless the "copper" wires were
really steel plated with copper.
of 8 and appeared to be copper but it wasn't, it was largely steel
with (I think) a copper coating. You could easily tell because the
cable was very springy and didn't behave like copper at all.
Figure of 8 twin drop wires gave poor broadband performance. Twisted
cables much better.
As this is an adopted road, I assume the council
can grant consent to dig up the pavements.
On 08/12/2022 15:25, Richard Tobin wrote:
In article <tmr5mt$lr47$1@dont-email.me>,They might be in for a shock when it comes to some shows !
Java Jive <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director generalAt which point it will be impossible to watch any program without
the broadcaster knowing that you have.
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Not all pensioners use BT.
Not all pensioners subscribe to a broadband service.
Some pensioners may have already ditched a land line in favour of a mobile
In many parts of the country broadband is a joke with regards speed, >especially in some rural areas.
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 18:09:52 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 11:25, Woody wrote:
No reader should forget that (supposedly) by the end of 2025 <everyone>
should have FTTP so that BT can remove all of the copper.
I think that is very optimistic (or is pessimistic!).
Hmm.. Let's see... when was the telephone invented? And by the 1950s,
how many other people did we know who actually had one? (We had a
doctor in the family so may have been on some priority list). It
wasn't usual just to ask for phone numbers then as we do now; the
usual first question was "Are you on the phone?" because you couldn't
assume everybody even had one.
Landline phones are everywhere today, but how many decades did it take
to get here? Yes I tend to agree that hoping to replace the whole
system in two or three years might be a tad ambitious. I wonder if politicians know how to do sums?
Rod.
These days we have 200+ channels available with very little new
worthwhile content. Everything is repeated so often.
There was no steel tensile support - unless the "copper" wires were really steel
plated with copper.
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2, but
also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if not a
completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
60s, a BBC 2) aerial
On 09/12/2022 09:55, Scott wrote:
As this is an adopted road, I assume the council
can grant consent to dig up the pavements.
Adopted roads have to be public highways, and I seem to remember that it
is for those that statutory undertakers get automatic wayleaves.
On 08/12/2022 16:45, charles wrote:
What has being "in their 80s" have to do with anything. I'm in my 80s.
Well said.
Age has little to do with technical competence. Until fairly recently
my 92 year old mother was well able to cope with modern technology. It's rapidly failing eyesight that is now the problem but recently it took
her about 5 minutes to learn how to use her new talking microwave oven. However, it only has 3 buttons and a rotary knob.
On 08/12/2022 15:22, NY wrote:
On 08/12/2022 14:28, charles wrote:
In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8sf1oilgij9p0vtpo7@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
The large screen tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
There is the added problem that the mechanism (eg underlying protocols)
may change over time, leading to older internet-capable TVs not being
able to receive programmes from some catchup sites. I believe there have
already been cases, though since they don't affect platforms I use, I've
not noted any examples.
Although possibly not related to freeview/freesat banded boxes but the changes the broadcaters have made to catch-up services over the past few years have rendered third party application/software useless.
If internet became the only means of "broadcasting", there would need to
be a *much* greater commitment to backward compatibility so a TV that
could once receive (for example) iPlayer can always receive it, even if
new features are added. But then that goes hand-in-hand with the policy
(which is becoming rarer these days) of "only ever add features; never
remove legacy features" which applies to anything computer-related such
as versions of Windows or features in application programs.
Haven't Panasonic had lots of problem with catch-up ceasing to work on
some of their TVs in the past 5 years.
On Thu 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 14:28:34 +0000 (GMT), charles
<cha...@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <b3o3phpdv023rikr8...@4ax.com>,
Scott <newsg...@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark....@invalid.invalid> wrote:
based BBC could do the same.
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD, and UHD >>>> streams are the only source of UHD content from the BBC (and it'llMaybe not, but I would reckon a majority now have some equipment that can watch video over the internet - PC, laptop, mobile phone, tablet, Smart TV...A prospect that I suspect would not impress anyone who has invested in >>>>> a large-screen television.
probably remain so)
No, my point was that people without broadband may have invested in a
large screen television. Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
The large screnn tv almost certainly has an internet connection, though.
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into theNOT.
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark CarverI think you're right actually, I think Bill Wright might have mentioned
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish. I doubt if there
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
60s, a BBC 2) aerial
are many old enough to remember though.
On Thursday, 8 December 2022 at 16:05:48 UTC, Woody wrote:
On Thu 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
On Thu, 08 Dec 2022 14:28:34 +0000 (GMT), charles
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into theNOT.
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Can do https://www.bt.com/broadband/home-essentials
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 18:19:18 -0000, "Alexander" <none@nowhere.fr>
wrote:
Every 'Freeview' TV has a card slot on the rear (called a 'Common >>Interface'), to facilitate access to encrypted services.
I don't think mine has, but in any case I've never used it as a
receiver and don't even have an aerial plugged into it, only a single
HDMI cable from a selector switch.
A couple of the devices plugged into the selector are fairly old
Freeview recorders that definitely don't have slots for any extra
circuitry, unless you count an SD card slot and a USB port.
I've also got a VHS machine that has two SCART sockets, only one of
which appears to be an output. I think the other SCART is for an
adaptor of some sort, though I never saw one. Do you think I could get
a decryption adaptor for that?
In any case I've more or less given up with off-air broadcasts
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming or even no broadband at all.
Op 7-12-2022 om 23:56 schreef Java Jive:
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still be >>> going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV streaming
or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general
https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
Commercial TV and Radio would love that !
Some rich broadcast man thinks that everybody can do the same as he can.
Investigations resulted in the fact that about one million people in The Netherlands never has been on internet, that's about 4% of all Dutch
people.
And a lot of the people, who has been on internet does not know anything about it.
Rink
You can only read the article if you subscribe.
Brian
You can only read the article if you subscribe.
You can only read the article if you subscribe.
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
60s, a BBC 2) aerial
I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish. I doubt if there
are many old enough to remember though.
On 09/12/2022 12:50, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark CarverI think you're right actually, I think Bill Wright might have mentioned
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2, >>>>> but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if >>>>> not a completely new set.Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was >>>> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis. >>>>
60s, a BBC 2) aerial
agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish. I doubt if there
are many old enough to remember though.
he did that for DER ?
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It wasTrue, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
60s, a BBC 2) aerial
On 07/12/2022 22:28, SH wrote:
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2022/12/07/bbc-must-ready-end-terrestrial-tv-broadcasts-decade-says-tim/
I assume this applies to Freeview only so I assume Freesat will still
be going for those who have boradband that is not viable for TV
streaming or even no broadband at all.
Also:
BBC preparing to go online-only over next decade, says director general https://www.theguardian.com/media/2022/dec/07/bbc-will-go-online-only-by-2030s-says-director-general
Much better.
No paywall at the Guardian.
On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 22:02:26 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 11/12/2022 16:58, Brian Gregory wrote:
Much better.
No paywall at the Guardian.
Just begging messages.
and a compete newspaper.
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC daily.
Says it all really?
On 11/12/2022 16:58, Brian Gregory wrote:
Much better.
No paywall at the Guardian.
Just begging messages.
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC daily.
Says it all really?
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.
On Mon 12/12/2022 12:25, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 22:02:26 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 11/12/2022 16:58, Brian Gregory wrote:
Much better.
No paywall at the Guardian.
Just begging messages.
and a compete newspaper.
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC daily.
Says it all really?
On 11/12/2022 15:16, William Wright wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and
BBC2, but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new >>>>equipment, if not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It
was still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular >>>basis.
Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.
That must have been a follow-on from earlier unreliable sets. I bought
an 18" Sony CTV in 1978 and it worked without a fail until 1996.
On 12/12/2022 12:42, Woody wrote:
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC
daily.
Says it all really?
It is usually said that it only survives because of the number of copies
that Leftie institutions take.
On 12/12/2022 12:42, Woody wrote:
On Mon 12/12/2022 12:25, Martin wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 22:02:26 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 11/12/2022 16:58, Brian Gregory wrote:
Much better.
No paywall at the Guardian.
Just begging messages.
and a compete newspaper.
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC
daily.
Says it all really?
So Guardian articles are so full of "attitude" that you have to read an article from a different paper to see that it is about.
See, e.g.:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/11/michael-gove-calls-new-york-times-useful-idiots-for-trojan-horse-podcast
vs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
or
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
....if you don't have a subscription.
On 12/12/2022 14:39, Max Demian wrote:
So Guardian articles are so full of "attitude" that you have to read
an article from a different paper to see that it is about.
See, e.g.:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/11/michael-gove-calls-new-york-times-useful-idiots-for-trojan-horse-podcast
vs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
or
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
....if you don't have a subscription.
The Guardian report just gives the facts, whereas the Telegraph's
repeats the original fraudulent claims about Islamist extremists trying
to take over schools.
On 12/12/2022 16:14, Java Jive wrote:
On 12/12/2022 14:39, Max Demian wrote:
So Guardian articles are so full of "attitude" that you have to read
an article from a different paper to see that it is about.
See, e.g.:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/11/michael-gove-calls-new-york-times-useful-idiots-for-trojan-horse-podcast
vs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
or
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
....if you don't have a subscription.
The Guardian report just gives the facts, whereas the Telegraph's
repeats the original fraudulent claims about Islamist extremists
trying to take over schools.
Sez the Guardian.
On 12/12/2022 18:13, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/12/2022 16:14, Java Jive wrote:
On 12/12/2022 14:39, Max Demian wrote:
So Guardian articles are so full of "attitude" that you have to read
an article from a different paper to see that it is about.
See, e.g.:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/11/michael-gove-calls-new-york-times-useful-idiots-for-trojan-horse-podcast
vs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
or
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
....if you don't have a subscription.
The Guardian report just gives the facts, whereas the Telegraph's
repeats the original fraudulent claims about Islamist extremists
trying to take over schools.
Sez the Guardian.
AFAIAA, says most if not all other reputable newspapers. See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_Horse_scandal
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals?
It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
On 09/12/2022 12:50, Scott wrote:
On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark CarverMost rental companies offered a fixed price aerial installation.
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2, >>>>> but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if >>>>> not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was >>>> still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis. >>>>
60s, a BBC 2) aerial
I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental
agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish. I doubt if there
are many old enough to remember though.
On Sun, 11 Dec 2022 22:02:26 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 11/12/2022 16:58, Brian Gregory wrote:
Much better.
No paywall at the Guardian.
Just begging messages.
and a compete newspaper.
On 12/12/2022 12:42, Woody wrote:
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC
daily.
Says it all really?
FAKE NEWS ALERT!
https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/which-newspapers-does-the-bbc-buy/
On 11/12/2022 15:16, William Wright wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.
That must have been a follow-on from earlier unreliable sets. I bought
an 18" Sony CTV in 1978 and it worked without a fail until 1996.
On 12/12/2022 13:55, MB wrote:
On 12/12/2022 12:42, Woody wrote:
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC
daily.
Says it all really?
It is usually said that it only survives because of the number of
copies that Leftie institutions take.
FAKE NEWS REPEATED!
See link in previous post for debunking.
On 12/12/2022 12:47 pm, Java Jive wrote:
On 12/12/2022 12:42, Woody wrote:
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC
daily.
Says it all really?
FAKE NEWS ALERT!
https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/which-newspapers-does-the-bbc-buy/
In how many papers, other than The Guardian, does the BBC advertise BBC
jobs?
On Fri, 9 Dec 2022 11:07:40 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and BBC2,
but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new equipment, if
not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It was
still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular basis.
True, but they still needed to buy a UHF (or as they were called in the
60s, a BBC 2) aerial
I thought the rental company would install this as part of the rental agreement in the same way that Sky install the dish. I doubt if there
are many old enough to remember though.
On 12/12/2022 19:03, Java Jive wrote:
On 12/12/2022 18:13, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/12/2022 16:14, Java Jive wrote:
On 12/12/2022 14:39, Max Demian wrote:
So Guardian articles are so full of "attitude" that you have to
read an article from a different paper to see that it is about.
See, e.g.:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/11/michael-gove-calls-new-york-times-useful-idiots-for-trojan-horse-podcast
vs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
or
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
....if you don't have a subscription.
The Guardian report just gives the facts, whereas the Telegraph's
repeats the original fraudulent claims about Islamist extremists
trying to take over schools.
Sez the Guardian.
AFAIAA, says most if not all other reputable newspapers. See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_Horse_scandal
Actually, what I'm really saying is it's hard to tell what the issue is
from the Guardian article. In common with other G. articles, it assumes
that all their readers know what the issues are and have been following
it, rather than summarising it.
On 08/12/2022 16:32, Java Jive wrote:
The description of 'builders' in the article is a little misleading.
On 08/12/2022 15:55, Mark Carver wrote:
https://www.itv.com/news/meridian/2022-06-09/around-4000-homes-without-internet-after-builders-cut-through-fibre-cables
Machinery photo looks a little like a posthole borer used on farms,
but AFAIAA they don't usually have toothed edges to the auger, and of
course would normally be vertical, not horizontal. Some sort of duct
tunnelling device perhaps? Anyone know?
It's a two year job to totally rebuild a major roundabout, and it's been total chaos (with still another 15 months to go)
I think they were attempting to stick in piles for a new gantry when the accident happened.
JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:
On 12/12/2022 12:47 pm, Java Jive wrote:
On 12/12/2022 12:42, Woody wrote:
Its not called the Grauniad for nothing you know AND it is the only
newspaper - nearly 3000 copies of it - that is delivered to the BBC
daily.
Says it all really?
FAKE NEWS ALERT!
https://pressgazette.co.uk/news/which-newspapers-does-the-bbc-buy/
In how many papers, other than The Guardian, does the BBC advertise BBC
jobs?
The BBC used to advertise both in The Guardian and Telegraph media jobs sections equally.
Then the Telegraph closed their media jobs section.
Winding forwards to the modern day web world, there is not a single BBC job currently being advertised on The Guardian’s job website. But if you go to the BBC’s own jobs website there’s loads of jobs on offer.
On 12/12/2022 02:31 pm, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/12/2022 15:16, William Wright wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and
BBC2, but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new
equipment, if not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It
was still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a regular
basis.
Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.
That must have been a follow-on from earlier unreliable sets. I bought
an 18" Sony CTV in 1978 and it worked without a fail until 1996.
I never had a colour set until 1979 (rented), but my observational
experience before that was that they were decidedly flakey.
My first bought colour set arrived in 1982. It worked well. I can't
remember when we got rid of it. Perhaps it went into a bedroom.
On 13/12/2022 11:59, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/12/2022 19:03, Java Jive wrote:
On 12/12/2022 18:13, Max Demian wrote:
On 12/12/2022 16:14, Java Jive wrote:
On 12/12/2022 14:39, Max Demian wrote:
So Guardian articles are so full of "attitude" that you have to
read an article from a different paper to see that it is about.
See, e.g.:
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/dec/11/michael-gove-calls-new-york-times-useful-idiots-for-trojan-horse-podcast
vs.
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
or
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/11/gove-accuses-new-york-times-trying-rewrite-history-trojan-horse/
....if you don't have a subscription.
The Guardian report just gives the facts, whereas the Telegraph's
repeats the original fraudulent claims about Islamist extremists
trying to take over schools.
Sez the Guardian.
AFAIAA, says most if not all other reputable newspapers. See also:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trojan_Horse_scandal
Actually, what I'm really saying is it's hard to tell what the issue
is from the Guardian article. In common with other G. articles, it
assumes that all their readers know what the issues are and have been
following it, rather than summarising it.
Shifting goalposts noted.
In circa 1976 I bought a Sony 18" colour TV, on the basis Sony sets had
a fantastic reputation for quality and reliability. It broke down three
times in the first three months (the first time after three weeks, when
a 1A fuse feeding the CRT heater went O/C). It took the dealer at least
two weeks to fix it).
As for the other two times, I managed to fix it myself (as I had access
to the full workshop manual, and the faults were pretty obvious).
I later learned that it might have been one of the first to be assembled
in Wales, and not in Japan - and it was said that those-in-the-know
sometimes specified that what they were buying should be 100% Japanese.
Rental of aerials must have been rare.
That must have been a follow-on from earlier unreliable sets. I bought
an 18" Sony CTV in 1978 and it worked without a fail until 1996.
On 13/12/2022 12:25, JNugent wrote:
On 12/12/2022 02:31 pm, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/12/2022 15:16, William Wright wrote:
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and
BBC2, but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new
equipment, if not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It
was still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a
regular basis.
Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.
That must have been a follow-on from earlier unreliable sets. I
bought an 18" Sony CTV in 1978 and it worked without a fail until 1996.
I never had a colour set until 1979 (rented), but my observational
experience before that was that they were decidedly flakey.
My first bought colour set arrived in 1982. It worked well. I can't
remember when we got rid of it. Perhaps it went into a bedroom.
This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very highly
thought of: https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
On 13/12/2022 12:25, JNugent wrote:
On 12/12/2022 02:31 pm, Max Demian wrote:
On 11/12/2022 15:16, William Wright wrote:I never had a colour set until 1979 (rented), but my observational
On 09/12/2022 10:13, alan_m wrote:
On 08/12/2022 17:02, JNugent wrote:
And as extra TV channels became available (principally ITV and
BBC2, but also Channel 5*), potential viewers had to buy new
equipment, if not a completely new set.
Didn't most people rent from companies such as radio rentals? It >>>>>> was still the era of people expecting TVs to break down on a
regular basis.
Rental had about 60% market share for colour sets in the 80s.
That must have been a follow-on from earlier unreliable sets. I
bought an 18" Sony CTV in 1978 and it worked without a fail until 1996. >>>
experience before that was that they were decidedly flakey.
My first bought colour set arrived in 1982. It worked well. I can't
remember when we got rid of it. Perhaps it went into a bedroom.
This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very highly
thought of:
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling them
for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a hotel chain
for use in guest bedrooms.
On 13/12/2022 12:19, JNugent wrote:Sky would put dishes on any house whose owners subscribed to the
Rental of aerials must have been rare.
I never came across it, although some aerials were boughtg on HP.
On 12/12/2022 15:55, Ian Jackson wrote:
In circa 1976 I bought a Sony 18" colour TV, on the basis Sony sets
had a fantastic reputation for quality and reliability. It broke down
three times in the first three months (the first time after three
weeks, when a 1A fuse feeding the CRT heater went O/C). It took the
dealer at least two weeks to fix it).
As for the other two times, I managed to fix it myself (as I had
access to the full workshop manual, and the faults were pretty obvious).
I later learned that it might have been one of the first to be
assembled in Wales, and not in Japan - and it was said that
those-in-the-know sometimes specified that what they were buying
should be 100% Japanese.
I was working for a Sony dealer at the time. The Welsh sets were a
disaster. They did a lot of damage to Sony's reputation in the trade.
On 13/12/2022 17:36, William Wright wrote:
On 13/12/2022 12:19, JNugent wrote:
Sky would put dishes on any house whose owners subscribed to theRental of aerials must have been rare.
I never came across it, although some aerials were boughtg on HP.
service. Who paid for them, and who did they belong to if the subscriber cancelled?
If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).
On 13/12/2022 17:50, William Wright wrote:
On 12/12/2022 15:55, Ian Jackson wrote:
In circa 1976 I bought a Sony 18" colour TV, on the basis Sony sets
had a fantastic reputation for quality and reliability. It broke down
three times in the first three months (the first time after three
weeks, when a 1A fuse feeding the CRT heater went O/C). It took the
dealer at least two weeks to fix it).
As for the other two times, I managed to fix it myself (as I had
access to the full workshop manual, and the faults were pretty obvious). >>>
I later learned that it might have been one of the first to be
assembled in Wales, and not in Japan - and it was said that
those-in-the-know sometimes specified that what they were buying
should be 100% Japanese.
I was working for a Sony dealer at the time. The Welsh sets were a
disaster. They did a lot of damage to Sony's reputation in the trade.
Too busy thinking about their sheep and falling asleep.
Without wishing to be ageist in any way, I
believe there are some pensioners who don't even have a computer in
their home.
JNugent wrote:
If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership
of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).
I thought glass was dishless?
Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish)
JNugent wrote:
If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership
of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).
I thought glass was dishless?
Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish)
On Tue 13/12/2022 18:17, JNugent wrote:
On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very highly
thought of:
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling
them for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a hotel
chain for use in guest bedrooms.
Auntie used to use them as monitors in their OB scanners. Never seen a picture like it.
On 13/12/2022 19:04, Woody wrote:
On Tue 13/12/2022 18:17, JNugent wrote:
On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very
highly thought of:
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling
them for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a
hotel chain for use in guest bedrooms.
Auntie used to use them as monitors in their OB scanners. Never seen
a picture like it.
We used them on our OB Radio Link vans - very reliable.
In all my 30 years working for Sony, the Beeb never used Sonys for
'Grade 1' racks monitoring, only ever for 'source' monitoring.
There was the matter of the two horizontal 'mask grille' strengthening
bars in the CRTs, that once you'd seen, you could never 'un-see !'
I can remember a BBC engineer (in a Norwegian MCR; long story !) on one >occasion being convinced the two lines were in the input signal.
It was only after I'd pulled everything out of the back of the monitor, >(except the power !) and lifted the brightness, that he finally believed
my story about the bars !
On 16/12/2022 13:43, Chris Youlden wrote:
On 13/12/2022 19:04, Woody wrote:In all my 30 years working for Sony, the Beeb never used Sonys for
On Tue 13/12/2022 18:17, JNugent wrote:
On 13/12/2022 05:24 pm, Max Demian wrote:
This one was available in the UK in the early 70s and was very
highly thought of:
https://collection.sciencemuseumgroup.org.uk/objects/co8066774/sony-trinitron-colour-television-1969-1970-television-receiver
In the mid-80s, I saw a shop which had a job lot of those, selling
them for about £40 each. They had previously been supplied to a
hotel chain for use in guest bedrooms.
Auntie used to use them as monitors in their OB scanners. Never seen
a picture like it.
We used them on our OB Radio Link vans - very reliable.
'Grade 1' racks monitoring, only ever for 'source' monitoring.
On 15/12/2022 21:14, Andy Burns wrote:Sky never ever remove dishes. Even when a subscriber moves house they leave the old dish.
JNugent wrote:
If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership
of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).
I thought glass was dishless?
Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish)You may not own the dish with a SkyQ contract, but cost of removal of
the dish, (plus the fact it will be rusty/weathered and be unusable
anywhere else) means it's almost certainly kept in place.
In any case, retaining it allows the punter to resubscribe at a latter
date.
JNugent wrote:
If and when service is discontinued, the subscriber retains ownership
of the dish and box (though not Sky Q boxes and probably not Sky Glass).
I thought glass was dishless?
Pretty sure you do own the glass at the end (but not the Q and its dish).
Sky never ever remove dishes. Even when a subscriber moves house they leave the old dish
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
It's entirely self supporting (like the copper cable, that has steel
bearers inside). They will take the copper away, (if you are having FTTP
as an upgrade, rather than an extra service) I think the maximum run
spec for BT overhead cables (copper or fibre) is 78 metres ?
Mark Carver wrote:
They will take the copper away, (if you are having FTTP as an
upgrade, rather than an extra service)
They didn't take ours away. We have two coppers and a fibre running from the pole to the house.
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are
even less lucky.
Andy
Vir Campestris wrote:
Mark Carver wrote:
They will take the copper away, (if you are having FTTP as an
upgrade, rather than an extra service)
They didn't take ours away. We have two coppers and a fibre running
from the pole to the house.
IIRC, you were an early-ish adopter, and they hadn't exactly got all
their ducks in a row?
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are
even less lucky.
On 08/12/2022 15:45, Mark Carver wrote:
It's entirely self supporting (like the copper cable, that has steel
bearers inside). They will take the copper away, (if you are having FTTP
as an upgrade, rather than an extra service) I think the maximum run
spec for BT overhead cables (copper or fibre) is 78 metres ?
They didn't take ours away. We have two coppers and a fibre running from
the pole to the house.
all those slow copper lines in villages will have been ripped out
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD
On 13/12/2022 12:19, JNugent wrote:
Rental of aerials must have been rare.
I never came across it, although some aerials were boughtg on HP.
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HD
Really? Just to test, the first thing that popped up was: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001gcmx/top-gear-series-33-episode-5
and the best resolution that has is 1280x720.
My PVR has 1920x1080 of course (and no logo burnt in the corner).
On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 11:48:42 +0000, Mark CarverIt can be device/platform dependent. Looks like 1080i50 (for most
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
BBC iplayer HD streams are every bit as good as 'broadcast' HDReally? Just to test, the first thing that popped up was: https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001gcmx/top-gear-series-33-episode-5
and the best resolution that has is 1280x720.
My PVR has 1920x1080 of course (and no logo burnt in the corner).
That fails my test of 'every bit as good' on two counts.
On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:29:41 +0000, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:Are you suffering from irony bypass?
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are
even less lucky.
On Tue, 13 Dec 2022 17:36:59 +0000, William Wright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
On 13/12/2022 12:19, JNugent wrote:
Rental of aerials must have been rare.
I never came across it, although some aerials were boughtg on HP.
What if you wanted vertical polarisation? How did you buy it then?
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:47:54 +0000, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/12/2022 16:34, Scott wrote:Yes indeed. This is why when Charles stated 'The large screnn tv
On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:29:41 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:Are you suffering from irony bypass?
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the >>>>> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are
even less lucky.
The old lines were copper, now we have glass. No iron involved :P
There are a lot of people who not merely don't have broadband, but can't
have it.
almost certainly has an internet connection, though', I responded (ironically) with the words, 'Almost certainly. All pensioners have
high speed broadband into the home, especially those on the BT Basic package'. I specifically referenced BT Basic to provide an example of
a customer without an internet connection.
In summary, Charles said that large screen TVs almost certainly have
intenet connection and I pointed out that some homes do not. I take
it we can now agree on this?
On 20/12/2022 16:34, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:29:41 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:Are you suffering from irony bypass?
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are
even less lucky.
The old lines were copper, now we have glass. No iron involved :P
There are a lot of people who not merely don't have broadband, but can't
have it.
The old lines were copper, now we have glass. No iron involved
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:47:54 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/12/2022 16:34, Scott wrote:Yes indeed. This is why when Charles stated 'The large screnn tv
On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:29:41 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:Are you suffering from irony bypass?
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the >>>>>> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are >>>>> even less lucky.
The old lines were copper, now we have glass. No iron involved :P
There are a lot of people who not merely don't have broadband, but can't >>> have it.
almost certainly has an internet connection, though', I responded
(ironically) with the words, 'Almost certainly. All pensioners have
high speed broadband into the home, especially those on the BT Basic
package'. I specifically referenced BT Basic to provide an example of
a customer without an internet connection.
In summary, Charles said that large screen TVs almost certainly have
intenet connection and I pointed out that some homes do not. I take
it we can now agree on this?
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade? Probably
had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took over from gas >lights.
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:42:16 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:47:54 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/12/2022 16:34, Scott wrote:Yes indeed. This is why when Charles stated 'The large screnn tv
On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:29:41 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:Are you suffering from irony bypass?
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the >>>>>>> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are >>>>>> even less lucky.
The old lines were copper, now we have glass. No iron involved :P
There are a lot of people who not merely don't have broadband, but can't >>>> have it.
almost certainly has an internet connection, though', I responded
(ironically) with the words, 'Almost certainly. All pensioners have
high speed broadband into the home, especially those on the BT Basic
package'. I specifically referenced BT Basic to provide an example of
a customer without an internet connection.
In summary, Charles said that large screen TVs almost certainly have
intenet connection and I pointed out that some homes do not. I take
it we can now agree on this?
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade? Probably
had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took over from gas >> lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
I can remember when I was young the cable TV company had a much higher
aerial than domestic installations able to pick up UTV as well as STV.
When football match was not shown in Scotland, people used to go to
someone with cable (with their McEwans Export obviously) to watch the
game there.
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:42:16 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:47:54 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 20/12/2022 16:34, Scott wrote:Yes indeed. This is why when Charles stated 'The large screnn tv
On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:29:41 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:Are you suffering from irony bypass?
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the >>>>>>>> home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are >>>>>>> even less lucky.
The old lines were copper, now we have glass. No iron involved :P
There are a lot of people who not merely don't have broadband, but can't >>>>> have it.
almost certainly has an internet connection, though', I responded
(ironically) with the words, 'Almost certainly. All pensioners have
high speed broadband into the home, especially those on the BT Basic
package'. I specifically referenced BT Basic to provide an example of >>>> a customer without an internet connection.
In summary, Charles said that large screen TVs almost certainly have
intenet connection and I pointed out that some homes do not. I take
it we can now agree on this?
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade? Probably >>> had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took over from gas >>> lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
I can remember when I was young the cable TV company had a much higher
aerial than domestic installations able to pick up UTV as well as STV.
When football match was not shown in Scotland, people used to go to
someone with cable (with their McEwans Export obviously) to watch the
game there.
Its already happening. Theres a big new housing estate just behind me and >theres not a TV aerial to be seen. I know that signal strength isnt >adequate for indoor antennas, so Im assuming theyve all been offered >something from BT or VM (each house has fibre from both Open Reach. And VM) >that they couldnt refuse.
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:47:54 +0000, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Yes indeed. This is why when Charles stated 'The large screnn tv
almost certainly has an internet connection, though', I responded (ironically) with the words, 'Almost certainly. All pensioners have
high speed broadband into the home, especially those on the BT Basic package'. I specifically referenced BT Basic to provide an example of
a customer without an internet connection.
On 24/12/2022 12:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:47:54 +0000, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Yes indeed. This is why when Charles stated 'The large screnn tv
almost certainly has an internet connection, though', I responded (ironically) with the words, 'Almost certainly. All pensioners have
high speed broadband into the home, especially those on the BT Basic package'. I specifically referenced BT Basic to provide an example of
a customer without an internet connection.
It was rather a sweeping statement. My TV is 32" which maybe still
counts as "large screen", and it used to have an Ethernet connection to
my router, but since I moved house it's out of range unless I run a long
wire around the skirting board, which I am not inclined to do, as,
though it calls itself "smart" it has become less and less smart with
time as is common.
On 24/12/2022 18:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 24/12/2022 12:54, Scott wrote:I can remember some BBC local radio stations in the 1970s, saying they
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:42:16 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade?
Probably
had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took over
from gas
lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
I suppose a Rediffusion radio is just a speaker. My brother had a
Rediffusion TV with a switch on the window frame to select the
channel. You could hear the sound from the TV speaker without
switching the TV on. I don't remember which radio channels it had in
addition to the three TV ones.
were on, for instance, 'Rediffusion Channel-H'
Of course 1955 to 1968 Rediffusion was also the weekday London ITV
company (given a shotgun marriage with ABC, and turned into Thames)
Their original building is still there, on the corner of Kingsway and >Aldwich, bang opposite Bvsh House (where another broadcaster once lived !)
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:42:16 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade? Probably
had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took over from gas >> lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
On 24/12/2022 12:54, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:42:16 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade?
Probably
had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took over
from gas
lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
I suppose a Rediffusion radio is just a speaker. My brother had a
Rediffusion TV with a switch on the window frame to select the
channel. You could hear the sound from the TV speaker without
switching the TV on. I don't remember which radio channels it had in
addition to the three TV ones.
On 24/12/2022 12:54, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:42:16 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade?
Probably had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took
over from gas lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
I suppose a Rediffusion radio is just a speaker. My brother had a
Rediffusion TV with a switch on the window frame to select the channel.
You could hear the sound from the TV speaker without switching the TV
on. I don't remember which radio channels it had in addition to the
three TV ones.
On 24/12/2022 18:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 24/12/2022 12:54, Scott wrote:I can remember some BBC local radio stations in the 1970s, saying they
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:42:16 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade?
Probably
had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took over
from gas
lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
I suppose a Rediffusion radio is just a speaker. My brother had a
Rediffusion TV with a switch on the window frame to select the
channel. You could hear the sound from the TV speaker without
switching the TV on. I don't remember which radio channels it had in
addition to the three TV ones.
were on, for instance, 'Rediffusion Channel-H'
Of course 1955 to 1968 Rediffusion was also the weekday London ITV
company (given a shotgun marriage with ABC, and turned into Thames)
Their original building is still there, on the corner of Kingsway and Aldwich, bang opposite Bvsh House (where another broadcaster once lived !)
In article <to7fn3$2b52p$3@dont-email.me>, Max Demian ><max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 24/12/2022 12:54, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 12:42:16 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade?
Probably had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took
over from gas lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
I suppose a Rediffusion radio is just a speaker. My brother had a
Rediffusion TV with a switch on the window frame to select the channel.
You could hear the sound from the TV speaker without switching the TV
on. I don't remember which radio channels it had in addition to the
three TV ones.
yes, the sound was just audio fed down the relevant pair. There was a 13 >channel version installed at TV Centre. At some point - about 50 years ago
- I was responsible for its maintenance.
I seem to remember similary systems in hotels with just on/off, volume
and channels 1, 2 and 3.
On 25/12/2022 08:41, Scott wrote:
I seem to remember similary systems in hotels with just on/off, volume
and channels 1, 2 and 3.
Along with the infamous baby alarm which allowed someone to listen to
the room from reception!
I liked the story of when CB radio was introduced. Some couple
decided it would be a good idea to use a pair of walkie-talkies as a
baby alarm. However, there was so much cross-talk that when the time
came the first word to be uttered by the baby was ... not what was
unexpected of a baby, to put it politely.
In article <to7fe0$2b52p$2@dont-email.me>,
Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 24/12/2022 12:37, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 24 Dec 2022 11:47:54 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
Yes indeed. This is why when Charles stated 'The large screnn tv
almost certainly has an internet connection, though', I responded
(ironically) with the words, 'Almost certainly. All pensioners have
high speed broadband into the home, especially those on the BT Basic
package'. I specifically referenced BT Basic to provide an example of
a customer without an internet connection.
It was rather a sweeping statement. My TV is 32" which maybe still
counts as "large screen", and it used to have an Ethernet connection to
my router, but since I moved house it's out of range unless I run a long
wire around the skirting board, which I am not inclined to do, as,
though it calls itself "smart" it has become less and less smart with
time as is common.
or, you could use a WiFi system and receive a wireless feed to the receiver behind the set. Saves draping a cable across the fireplace.
At my primary school we had a 'radio' in each classroomIt was just a loudspeaker.
On Sunday, 25 December 2022 at 08:42:02 UTC, Scott wrote:
At my primary school we had a 'radio' in each classroomIt was just a loudspeaker.
Yes indeed. This is why when Charles stated 'The large screnn tv
almost certainly has an internet connection, though', I responded
(ironically) with the words, 'Almost certainly. All pensioners have
high speed broadband into the home, especially those on the BT Basic
package'. I specifically referenced BT Basic to provide an example of
a customer without an internet connection.
In summary, Charles said that large screen TVs almost certainly have
intenet connection and I pointed out that some homes do not. I take
it we can now agree on this?
This is now. Where will we be with broadband uptake in a decade? Probably >>had the same arguments when that new fangled electricity took over from gas >>lights.
The way I see it is that we could be returning to the very old days
when televisons were on cable and (before my time) there were
Rediffusion radios, also wired.
I can remember when I was young the cable TV company had a much higher
aerial than domestic installations able to pick up UTV as well as STV.
When football match was not shown in Scotland, people used to go to
someone with cable (with their McEwans Export obviously) to watch the
game there.
On 20/12/2022 16:34, Scott wrote:
On Tue, 20 Dec 2022 12:29:41 +0000, Vir Campestris
<vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 08/12/2022 15:20, Scott wrote:Are you suffering from irony bypass?
Almost certainly. All pensioners have high speed broadband into the
home, especially those on the BT Basic package.
Until recently the fastest speed in our village was 3MBPS. Others are
even less lucky.
The old lines were copper, now we have glass. No iron involved :P
There are a lot of people who not merely don't have broadband, but can't
have it.
In summary, Charles said that large screen TVs almost certainly have
intenet connection and I pointed out that some homes do not. I take
it we can now agree on this?
It’s already happening. There’s a big new housing estate just behind me and
there’s not a TV aerial to be seen. I know that signal strength isn’t adequate for indoor antennas, so I’m assuming they’ve all been offered something from BT or VM (each house has fibre from both Open Reach. And VM) that they couldn’t refuse.
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