Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital stuff like they suggested some years ago.
Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital stuff like they suggested some years ago. I know radios were made for this as I found one abroad back when I could see. OK, so it was mono, but far better
at removing interference than AM analogue is and now we are closing the stations seems a got time to exploit it again. Obviously fading could be an issue, but most medium wave outlets were meant to be for local consumption,
On 01/03/2024 12:57, Brian Gaff wrote:
Is it not time we used this underused part of the spectrum for digital stuff >> like they suggested some years ago. I know radios were made for this as I
found one abroad back when I could see. OK, so it was mono, but far better >> at removing interference than AM analogue is and now we are closing the
stations seems a got time to exploit it again. Obviously fading could be an >> issue, but most medium wave outlets were meant to be for local consumption,
The MF band is no use to anyone now. Only 1 MHz of spectrum, no one is
going to bother with any broadcast system, and what other use can you
think of ?
It would be a lost learning opportunity if they closed it down.
Other uses? Well part of it used to be used for analogue portable phones.
I was thinking of an on the cheap community station that Offcom does not >charge an arm and a leg for, or are we now going over to mobile broadband >supplied radio, which in effect is not free as you have to pay for the >connection. Brian
No most of them have died by now. They used vhf for the handset to the base >unit, and just the top end of medium wave for the other way. This worked[]
No I men the old analogue walk about phones. They simply used 49Mhz and
just at the high frequency end ofmedium wave. They had no protection
against eavesdroppers as they used narrow band FM. I do also admit in its day, owning a Rabbit system With my base station up high in the
building I found in places I could get a mile out of them. The idea was
also that you had rbbit phone points around the place and you could also communicate via those. For what it was, it worked for many years as a cordless digital mobile. I don't know what protocols it used but the frequencies were high. After a while phone got shut down of course as
nobody wanted to pay a connection rate to the company which ran them.
T Are there any mobiles around now which can be used the house on a
landline and as a mobile? Brian
With landlines about to vanish this is not a concern. I am told that when I move to VOIP, an app will allow me to pick up VOIP calls on my mobile. Problem solved.
No I men the old analogue walk about phones. They simply used 49Mhz and just >at the high frequency end ofmedium wave. They had no protection against >eavesdroppers as they used narrow band FM.
I do also admit in its day, owning a Rabbit system With my base station up
high in the building I found in places I could get a mile out of them. The >idea was also that you had rbbit phone points around the place and you could >also communicate via those. For what it was, it worked for many years as a >cordless digital mobile. I don't know what protocols it used but the >frequencies were high. After a while phone got shut down of course as nobody >wanted to pay a connection rate to the company which ran them.
T
Are there any mobiles around now which can be used the house on a landline >and as a mobile?
Brian
On 06/03/2024 12:08, charles wrote:
With landlines about to vanish this is not a concern. I am told that when I >> move to VOIP, an app will allow me to pick up VOIP calls on my mobile.The app can already be installed on your mobile if you set up a VOIP
Problem solved.
account on your broadband and have a router with a Wifi connection.
Landlines are not going to disappear. They will, though, no longer be >analogue with a digital overlay, but will be digital with an analogue >converter in the router.
If you do not have broadband via landline, you will get a router with a >converter installed, and you will plug your existing phone into the
router, and will carry on as before. You nay need to update your
burglar alarm and any personal alarm buttons you use to call help after
a fall or medical emergemcy.
If you have broadband and a modern alarm system, the only change you
will probably notice is that you need to plug your phone into the
router, not the socket on the wall.
It will be a good idea to install a standby or uninterruptable power
supply for the router.
If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than >landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
wonder what all the fuss is about.
In message <l4rb8tFq7htU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024
14:01:01, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper thanOnly cheaper than landline, for some people, if they pay a monthly
landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
wonder what all the fuss is about.
mobile fee anyway. I have anytime landline calls with my broadband and
am _not_ paying extra; however, may be because I'm a long-time customer.
On 06/03/2024 15:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
In message <l4rb8tFq7htU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024
14:01:01, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper thanOnly cheaper than landline, for some people, if they pay a monthly
landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
wonder what all the fuss is about.
mobile fee anyway. I have anytime landline calls with my broadband and
am _not_ paying extra; however, may be because I'm a long-time customer.
I have unlimited calls, text and broadband on my pay monthly cell
connection, and it costs me about half the price that an equivalent
landline package would.
If your cell is costing you more per month than a landline, then as
most pay as you use it packages require a minimum top up every month
anyway, you may as well go for the unlimited contract option.
I have unlimited calls, text and broadband on my pay monthly cell
connection, and it costs me about half the price that an equivalent
landline package would.
Interesting! Who are you with? Do you find broadband-via-mobile is
adequate technically (speed, reliability, other)? How much _do_ you pay? (Obviously feel free not to answer that - or any of this of course!)
Indeed; it hearkens back to the old dial-up days, when the knowledge
If your cell is costing you more per month than a landline, then as
most pay as you use it packages require a minimum top up every month
anyway, you may as well go for the unlimited contract option.
that every minute was costing you inhibited use. You say "than a
landline" - I don't consider that I pay separately for my landline, just
all as part of my broadband;
If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
wonder what all the fuss is about.
That’s more a function of a poor quality communication link rather than VOIP as a technology.
On 06/03/2024 14:01, John Williamson wrote:
If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than
landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
wonder what all the fuss is about.
Any listener to radio phone-ins and radio news programmes will know just reliable VOIP is!
I think plugging the master plug from your extension wiring into the
router (via a converter if necessary) should make all your old kit work
via the new system, though it may be inconvenient if your router is not >currently near your master socket.
John Williamson wrote:
Last time I asked the question, a landline was about £55.
Plusnet currently costs me £26.20/m for line rental, off-peak calls and >80/20Mb broadband (from next month, the CPI+3.9% will see it rise to
£28.37)
On 06/03/2024 22:52, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
I have unlimited calls, text and broadband on my pay monthly cell
connection, and it costs me about half the price that an equivalent
landline package would.
Interesting! Who are you with? Do you find broadband-via-mobile is
adequate technically (speed, reliability, other)? How much _do_ you pay?
(Obviously feel free not to answer that - or any of this of course!)
I have SIM my accounts with EE and Vodafone at about thirty quid a
month each. Netter deals are probably available, but ICBA looking. The
phine cost me £160, and the router cost me £30. If I were willing to
put up with losing the internet on one account while talking on the
other, it takes two SIMs. It happily carries on working if I use the BB >account on the SIM I'm talking via.
Last time I asked the question, a landline was about £55.
For the majority of the time I can stream 2K definition video on either >accounts. Occasionally, one of them drops out.
Indeed; it hearkens back to the old dial-up days, when the knowledge
If your cell is costing you more per month than a landline, then as
most pay as you use it packages require a minimum top up every month
anyway, you may as well go for the unlimited contract option.
that every minute was costing you inhibited use. You say "than a
landline" - I don't consider that I pay separately for my landline, just
all as part of my broadband;
I remember maxing out my 20GB landline data allowance on the dim and
distant past. I also remember uploading and downloading stuff via 2G >cellphone at 9600 baud, and paying by the minute.
That sounds daft. You might as well call via whatsapp then.
Yes on Rabbit, they would have gone on working but I got fed up with >eternally replacing the rechargeable batteries as one always lost capacity >before the other one did. Nickel-Metal Hydrides were in mine but I don't >think double A sized ones were as high capacity as the more modern ones and >had a habit of self discharging. Eventually the legends wore off the keys
and some keys needed to be wobbled to make contact, they were heavy too. >Brian
In message <l4tbfiF4fn8U1@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 7 Mar 2024It seems I am out of date, then, but as I am not able to make use of a
08:16:50, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> writes
John Williamson wrote:
Last time I asked the question, a landline was about £55.
Plusnet currently costs me £26.20/m for line rental, off-peak calls
and 80/20Mb broadband (from next month, the CPI+3.9% will see it rise
to £28.37)
I too am paying PlusNet twentysomething - "line rental" (I'll certainly
be glad to see _that_ term consigned to history!), anytime calls, and (I think) 30/10 broadband; as you say, the CPI+3.9 cuts in at the end of
this month.
Where did the 3.9% come from?
J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Where did the 3.9% come from?
I started-off assuming +3.9% was the max allowed by OFCOM, but it
appears OFCOM also wondered where it comes from ... their conclusion
just seems to be that a pounds+pence increase must be quoted rather
than a formula ...
In message <usc43n$10731$1@dont-email.me> at Thu, 7 Mar 2024 10:15:16,
Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
That sounds daft. You might as well call via whatsapp then.There are now two sorts of nickel metal hydride cells. In AA size, the ordinary sort are pushing 3 amp hours (I refuse to continue to use milliamp-hours now we're so far past 1 - you can get 1 in triple A cells now!), though seem not to quite reach it - 2.95 seems common. The other
Yes on Rabbit, they would have gone on working but I got fed up with
eternally replacing the rechargeable batteries as one always lost
capacity
before the other one did. Nickel-Metal Hydrides were in mine but I don't
think double A sized ones were as high capacity as the more modern
ones and
had a habit of self discharging. Eventually the legends wore off the keys
and some keys needed to be wobbled to make contact, they were heavy too.
Brian
sort are low self-discharge - retain 80-90% capacity even after a year -
and those seem to be about 2.5 Ah capacity; the practical difference therefore favours the latter sort, for nearly all purposes (maybe people using high-discharge _regularly_ might go for the other sort just for
the high capacity - professional photographers, modellers). The low self-discharge sort are distinguishable by usually being sold charged - "ready to use"; there are several known makes (or rather models, from
known makes), the one I can think of being eneloop though I can't
remember who from, but Lidl also sell them occasionally (they also occasionally sell the ordinary sort, so look for the "ready to use" or similar wording).
In message <l4rb8tFq7htU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024
14:01:01, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
On 06/03/2024 12:08, charles wrote:
With landlines about to vanish this is not a concern. I am told thatThe app can already be installed on your mobile if you set up a VOIP
when I
move to VOIP, an app will allow me to pick up VOIP calls on my mobile.
Problem solved.
account on your broadband and have a router with a Wifi connection.
The VoIP account doesn't have to be with the same provider as your
broadband. (In the case of PlusNet, they're still saying they're not
offering it - they'll move you to BT, though [part of the same company, though most of the time they operate separately] if you want.)
I currently have my landline from BT and Internet (ADSL2+) from PlusNet.
Does anyone know how they will deal with the change to digital phone?
Like, who will provide the new router and will it have a socket for an >analogue phone?
On 07/03/2024 10:49, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[]
[]I too am paying PlusNet twentysomething - "line rental" (I'll certainly
be glad to see _that_ term consigned to history!), anytime calls, and (I
There will still be a monthly fee for the service, no matter what they
call it. There has to be a connection to your premises as well as other
stuff going on, all of which which costs money to maintain. Switching
to VOIP will make it easier for them to alter the cost of use as well
as connection quality on a packet by packet basis if needed as a load >balancing measure.
All that going over to VOIP will change is that there will be one less >conversion from digital to analogue and vice versa in the exchange.
That conversion will, instead, be done at your end of the "last mile".
What happens now is that your analogue signals get converted to digital
in the exchange and squirted along their internal VOIP networks, then >reconverted to squirt the analogue down your POTS wires, which
currently also carry the broadband signal as modulated HF signals. It
has been a long time since exchanges were full of clattering rotary
switches and relays. In most villages, the exchange is under a manhole
cover outside the old exchange which is now someone's home, and the
operator is as likely as not to be working from home in Dundee or
somewhere.
On 07/03/2024 10:57, J. P. Gilliver wrote:[]
[]There are now two sorts of nickel metal hydride cells. In AA size, the
ordinary sort are pushing 3 amp hours (I refuse to continue to use
[]sort are low self-discharge - retain 80-90% capacity even after a year -
and those seem to be about 2.5 Ah capacity; the practical difference
Replacing time expired NiMH or NiCd cells is normally easy. Open the
cover, replace the useless cells and you're good for another year or
two. My cordless landline phone was on its third or fourth set when I
moved on to the boat, so couldn't make use of it any longer. They can
even be replaced by primary cells in an emergency. They are also easily >recyclable.
The lithium batteries are usually permanently built in, with the cells
custom designed to fit and welded in place. This means that when they
do eventually fail, the device is scrap. For consumer devices, they are >usually sized to give the minimum acceptable run time between charges,
so for extended use, you need either a spare device or an external
power pack. They are also currently not easy to recycle, though there
are a few places which now do it.
In message <l4tnfkF6r3tU1@mid.individual.net> at Thu, 7 Mar 2024
11:41:40, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
The lithium batteries are usually permanently built in, with the cells
custom designed to fit and welded in place. This means that when they
Though I think the EC at least have legislated against that - isn't the latest iPhone different to previous ones in that respect?
On 06/03/2024 15:12, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
In message <l4rb8tFq7htU1@mid.individual.net> at Wed, 6 Mar 2024
14:01:01, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> writes
On 06/03/2024 12:08, charles wrote:
With landlines about to vanish this is not a concern. I am told thatThe app can already be installed on your mobile if you set up a VOIP
when I
move to VOIP, an app will allow me to pick up VOIP calls on my mobile. >>> Problem solved.
account on your broadband and have a router with a Wifi connection.
The VoIP account doesn't have to be with the same provider as your broadband. (In the case of PlusNet, they're still saying they're not offering it - they'll move you to BT, though [part of the same company, though most of the time they operate separately] if you want.)
I currently have my landline from BT and Internet (ADSL2+) from PlusNet.
Does anyone know how they will deal with the change to digital phone?
Like, who will provide the new router and will it have a socket for an analogue phone? Will I be "encouraged" to switch to fibre of some
flavour, and will this be FTTC, FTTN or what? ATM the (copper) phone connections are embedded in the walls of the block of flats I live in,
so FTTP would not be very nice, as in wires laid on the ground and holes drilled in walls. (A neighbour in the same block has a CityFibre
connection done in this way.)
On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 12:31:02 +0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
I currently have my landline from BT and Internet (ADSL2+) from PlusNet. >Does anyone know how they will deal with the change to digital phone?
Like, who will provide the new router and will it have a socket for an >analogue phone?
I don't think they will. Currently Plusnet don't seem to offer a VOIP
service of their own, so if you stay with Plusnet and upgrade to fibre
you would have to subscribe to a VOIP service from somebody else, and probably have to obtain extra equipment to use it.
If your landline phone is vital to you, the simplest way would seem to
be to change both internet and landline to another service provider
that *does* offer a VOIP service, then upgrade to fibre. It's not the
only way, but it seems simplest to get all your communication services
from the same company.
BT and Zen are just two companies I happen to know about that offer
both internet and VOIP phone. There are probably others, but don't
assume that they all do.
As I understand it, you simply need a "phone adaptor" plugged into a
network output of your router. Yes, you might get a new router with the >adaptor incorporated, but that's not essential.
On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 12:31:02 +0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
I currently have my landline from BT and Internet (ADSL2+) from PlusNet. >>Does anyone know how they will deal with the change to digital phone?
Like, who will provide the new router and will it have a socket for an >>analogue phone?
I don't think they will. Currently Plusnet don't seem to offer a VOIP
service of their own, so if you stay with Plusnet and upgrade to fibre
you would have to subscribe to a VOIP service from somebody else, and >probably have to obtain extra equipment to use it.
If your landline phone is vital to you, the simplest way would seem to
be to change both internet and landline to another service provider
that *does* offer a VOIP service, then upgrade to fibre. It's not the
only way, but it seems simplest to get all your communication services
from the same company.
BT and Zen are just two companies I happen to know about that offer
both internet and VOIP phone. There are probably others, but don't
assume that they all do.
Rod.John
On 07/03/2024 08:45, Tweed wrote:
That’s more a function of a poor quality communication link rather than
VOIP as a technology.
Does not matter what the cause is if you cannot communicate with people >because of it.
Occasionally the person in the studio will give up and connect by
landline and straight away get a perfect connection.
On 06/03/2024 14:01, John Williamson wrote:
If, like many people, you use only cell based comms, (Now cheaper than
landline and which are not locked to any particular location) you will
wonder what all the fuss is about.
Any listener to radio phone-ins and radio news programmes will know just >reliable VOIP is!
On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 12:31:02 +0000, Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
I currently have my landline from BT and Internet (ADSL2+) from PlusNet.
Does anyone know how they will deal with the change to digital phone?
Like, who will provide the new router and will it have a socket for an
analogue phone?
I don't think they will. Currently Plusnet don't seem to offer a VOIP
service of their own, so if you stay with Plusnet and upgrade to fibre
you would have to subscribe to a VOIP service from somebody else, and probably have to obtain extra equipment to use it.
If your landline phone is vital to you, the simplest way would seem to
be to change both internet and landline to another service provider
that *does* offer a VOIP service, then upgrade to fibre. It's not the
only way, but it seems simplest to get all your communication services
from the same company.
BT and Zen are just two companies I happen to know about that offer
both internet and VOIP phone. There are probably others, but don't
assume that they all do.
In message <5b3de7e8a3charles@candehope.me.uk> at Thu, 7 Mar 2024
13:30:03, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> writes
[]
As I understand it, you simply need a "phone adaptor" plugged into a >>network output of your router. Yes, you might get a new router with the >>adaptor incorporated, but that's not essential.For the _technical_ requirement, yes. You also need a VoIP _service_,
which your broadband provider may or may not provide (PlusNet at present
are not planning to).
For another premises I know of where BT provide both anyway, I've seen a >letter suggesting the transition will be fairly seamless - it's just a >"something will happen, we'll tell you more nearer the time" letter at
the moment, but I presume a new router (or adapter) will be required, as
the existing router there doesn't have any unusual sockets on it.
The new router, or "hub" as BT call it, does have a phone socket on
the back, which worked straight away with the existing phone, but it
can also function as a DECT base station with their own handsets, so
you can have one less box plugged into the mains.
Not so sure about that. My apple is apparently like that, but the newer ones >are apparently easer to get into and change the batteries. I don't know
about other makes, Its true though that a battery for one model may not fit >another even from the same company. I also think Apple have stopped
including a special design that stops third party screens from working. Mind >you to crack that screen you are obviously in need of a military spec phone. >Its pretty tough even if you don't have a case. I always have had mine in a >case. Wy would you spend so much on a phone and make it so easy to
damage.I'd also like to see a wall wart packaged with usb items again, as >there are so many naff ones on sale it cannot be good for thee phone. often >you can hear the buzz from the phone when you connect a cheap one.
Brian
On Thu, 7 Mar 2024 17:52:48 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk>[]
wrote:
For another premises I know of where BT provide both anyway, I've seen a >>letter suggesting the transition will be fairly seamless - it's just a >>"something will happen, we'll tell you more nearer the time" letter at
the moment, but I presume a new router (or adapter) will be required, as >>the existing router there doesn't have any unusual sockets on it.
Yes, that's what happens. I've helped to set up such a system for
somebody and there wasn't much to it, the only initial setting up
being to reconnect all wi-fi devices to the new code.
The new router, or "hub" as BT call it, does have a phone socket on
the back, which worked straight away with the existing phone, but it
can also function as a DECT base station with their own handsets, so
you can have one less box plugged into the mains. Two handsets were
provided with this setup, and they worked alongside the old plugged-in
phone, but even though both types of phone were BT ones, there didn't
seem to be a quick way of transferring the stored phone numbers from
the old to the new, so I just sat down with both phones and copied the >numbers across by typing them in. Then we unplugged the old phone.
Rod.John
There's so little you can do to fix a smartphone now, it's usually not
even possible to replace the battery, and they often contain so much
essential personal info you wouldn't want to let it out of your grasp
for someone else to fix it, so my policy for smartphones is roughly
this:-
1. Don't buy an Apple one.
2. Don't buy a stupidly expensive one, or one that's so cheap that
it's rubbish. Get a middle range one with a decent camera and mentally
divide the price by the number of years you expect to keep it.
3. Don't regard it as a phone with a camera included, but as a camera
with a phone included, and look after it as you would a camera.
Hopefully it will last long enough for the cost per year to be
reasonable even if it eventually becomes effectively useless. I still
have the first camera I was ever given, which is the one my father
saved up his pocket money to buy when he was a boy in the 1930s, and
I'm sure it would still work if I put film in it, but today's
technology is often as ephemeral as the software that drives it. Such
is life.
Rod.
On Fri, 8 Mar 2024 11:29:17 -0000, "Brian Gaff" <brian1gaff@gmail.com>
wrote:
Not so sure about that. My apple is apparently like that, but the newer ones >>are apparently easer to get into and change the batteries. I don't know >>about other makes, Its true though that a battery for one model may not fit >>another even from the same company. I also think Apple have stopped
damage.I'd also like to see a wall wart packaged with usb items again, as
there are so many naff ones on sale it cannot be good for thee phone. often >>you can hear the buzz from the phone when you connect a cheap one.
Brian
Probably a better name, though still not completely ... when discussing
with US people, I always have to explain that we in UK _mostly_ just
have one device, that serves the function of MoDem, router, switch, and
wifi base station. And we (because our industry does) call this combined
box a router.
On 08/03/2024 13:51, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Probably a better name, though still not completely ... when discussing with US people, I always have to explain that we in UK _mostly_ just
have one device, that serves the function of MoDem, router, switch, and wifi base station. And we (because our industry does) call this combined box a router.
Not to be confused with a router, which is a tool for mangling wood.
On 08/03/2024 13:51, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Probably a better name, though still not completely ... when discussingNot to be confused with a router, which is a tool for mangling wood.
with US people, I always have to explain that we in UK _mostly_ just
have one device, that serves the function of MoDem, router, switch, and
wifi base station. And we (because our industry does) call this combined
box a router.
In article <l50mj6FkpbuU1@mid.individual.net>,
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 08/03/2024 13:51, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
Probably a better name, though still not completely ... when discussingNot to be confused with a router, which is a tool for mangling wood.
with US people, I always have to explain that we in UK _mostly_ just
have one device, that serves the function of MoDem, router, switch, and
wifi base station. And we (because our industry does) call this combined >> > box a router.
which might be why in the US the computer type is pronounced a "ROWTER"
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 297 |
| Nodes: | 16 (0 / 16) |
| Uptime: | 126:35:58 |
| Calls: | 6,663 |
| Calls today: | 1 |
| Files: | 12,212 |
| Messages: | 5,334,958 |