Was there ever a time when transmitters were actually powered off, rather than
on but transmitting silence, on remembrance day/Sunday?
Was there ever a time when transmitters were actually powered off,
rather than on but transmitting silence, on remembrance day/Sunday?
I realise it couldn't happen now, not least because of all the automatic >systems that would be disrupted, from medicine-delivery machinery to
perhaps missile launches; I just wondered if it ever did, or whether the >invention of the two-minutes' silence was sufficiently late that it was
never practical. (I don't know when the idea of the 2MS was begun - not
long after WWI maybe? I would imagine an actual cessation of
transmission would have been possible up to, say, late 1940s or early
1950s without causing too much chaos, if it was prepared for.)
(I have vague memories of hearing that something happened on Marconi's
death, but since accounts of such probably came from non-technical
people, they might have been referring to a pause of modulation only.)
Was there ever a time when transmitters were actually powered off,
rather than on but transmitting silence, on remembrance day/Sunday?
I realise it couldn't happen now, not least because of all the automatic systems that would be disrupted, from medicine-delivery machinery to
perhaps missile launches; I just wondered if it ever did, or whether the invention of the two-minutes' silence was sufficiently late that it was
never practical. (I don't know when the idea of the 2MS was begun - not
long after WWI maybe? I would imagine an actual cessation of
transmission would have been possible up to, say, late 1940s or early
1950s without causing too much chaos, if it was prepared for.)
(I have vague memories of hearing that something happened on Marconi's
death, but since accounts of such probably came from non-technical
people, they might have been referring to a pause of modulation only.)
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Was there ever a time when transmitters were actually powered off,
rather than on but transmitting silence, on remembrance day/Sunday?
Why would you turn them off, when you can more easily mute the feed?
Which seems to be the opposite of what happens nowadays, not sure if
some form of AGC somewhere gets "worried" by the relative silence and >adjusts, or whether they manually turn up the effects mic to emphasise
that they are broadcasting the silence? I suspect if a mouse farted in
Big Ben this morning it would be heard on every station ...
On 14/11/2021 17:51, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:[]
Was there ever a time when transmitters were actually powered off,
rather than on but transmitting silence, on remembrance day/Sunday?
(I have vague memories of hearing that something happened on
Marconi's
death, but since accounts of such probably came from non-technical
people, they might have been referring to a pause of modulation only.)
Radio transmitters all over the world went silent after Marconi's death.
In the past many transmitters relied on the presence of programme toPresumably as the event is known about in advance, either the automatic
stay on, in the event of programme they would shut down or switch to a >reserve feed.
That is why they would ensure the ambient noise level was high enough
to stop the programme failure detectors dropping out.
Similarly outside programme hours there would be a "bong" at intervals
to similarly make sure the programme failure detector did not drop out.
But does "went silent" mean they were turned off, or just transmitted a
dead carrier?
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Was there ever a time when transmitters were actually powered off,
rather than on but transmitting silence, on remembrance day/Sunday?
Why would you turn them off, when you can more easily mute the feed?
Which seems to be the opposite of what happens nowadays, not sure if
some form of AGC somewhere gets "worried" by the relative silence and adjusts, or whether they manually turn up the effects mic to emphasise
that they are broadcasting the silence? I suspect if a mouse farted
in Big Ben this morning it would be heard on every station ...
It's the 'silence detectors' these days that are the worry. If they detect more
than 30 seconds of silence, an emergency standby 'tape' cuts in, so today we have the ridiculous practice of 'ambient silence' that's used for the remembrance day ceremonies, because no one can be sure that disabling the silence detectors is going to be a 100% certainty.
It's the 'silence detectors' these days that are the worry. If they
detect more than 30 seconds of silence, an emergency standby 'tape' cuts
in, so today we have the ridiculous practice of 'ambient silence' that's
used for the remembrance day ceremonies, because no one can be sure that disabling the silence detectors is going to be a 100% certainty.
They have to protect against Fumph.
On 15/11/2021 09:47, MB wrote:
They have to protect against Fumph.Though on the few occasions that I hear American inspired DJs like Tony >Blackburn (only VERY briefly), I do wonder if they think we are still at
war and they have to speak fast with no pauses to protect against Fumph.
On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 09:50:08 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:https://partridge.cloud/scene/?id=q65PrFeHcEsb
On 15/11/2021 09:47, MB wrote:I can certainly remember when they used to say that silence is the
They have to protect against Fumph.Though on the few occasions that I hear American inspired DJs like Tony
Blackburn (only VERY briefly), I do wonder if they think we are still at
war and they have to speak fast with no pauses to protect against Fumph.
enemy of pop music radio.
Was there ever a time when transmitters were actually powered off, rather than on but transmitting silence, on remembrance day/Sunday?
I realise it couldn't happen now, not least because of all the automatic systems that would be disrupted, from medicine-delivery machinery to
perhaps missile launches; I just wondered if it ever did, or whether the invention of the two-minutes' silence was sufficiently late that it was
never practical. (I don't know when the idea of the 2MS was begun - not
long after WWI maybe? I would imagine an actual cessation of transmission would have been possible up to, say, late 1940s or early 1950s without causing too much chaos, if it was prepared for.)
(I have vague memories of hearing that something happened on Marconi's
death, but since accounts of such probably came from non-technical people, they might have been referring to a pause of modulation only.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
pu gnikcab yb naem uoy tahw siht sI
On 14/11/2021 22:43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
But does "went silent" mean they were turned off, or just transmitted a
dead carrier?
All transmitter would have been manned, I would not be surprised if they dropped carrier for the two minutes
Mark Carver wrote:
It's the 'silence detectors' these days that are the worry. If they
detect more than 30 seconds of silence, an emergency standby 'tape' cuts in, so today we have the ridiculous practice of 'ambient silence' that's used for the remembrance day ceremonies, because no one can be sure that disabling the silence detectors is going to be a 100% certainty.
I walked into my kitchen at 11am yesterday and wondered what was making the racket ... it was the radio.
A few years ago I turned on the car radio and could only hear what
sounded like an open mic in a quiet place, so I wound the gain right up
in the hope of hearing whatever was supposed to be going on. Then Big
Ben struck!
On 14/11/2021 23:44, MB wrote:
On 14/11/2021 22:43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:Given the thermal shocks that could be caused to some quite expensive >components by turning a high powered valve based transmitter off, then
But does "went silent" mean they were turned off, or just transmitted a
dead carrier?
All transmitter would have been manned, I would not be surprised if they
dropped carrier for the two minutes
back on, I'd be surprised if they did. They were designed to operate
24/7 at a constant power level.
I remember when I was using even domestic low powered valves, power
cycling was to be avoided.
On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 at 10:18:51, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote (my responses usually follow
points raised):
On 14/11/2021 23:44, MB wrote:
On 14/11/2021 22:43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:Given the thermal shocks that could be caused to some quite expensive >components by turning a high powered valve based transmitter off, then
But does "went silent" mean they were turned off, or just transmitted a >>> dead carrier?
All transmitter would have been manned, I would not be surprised if they >> dropped carrier for the two minutes
back on, I'd be surprised if they did. They were designed to operate
24/7 at a constant power level.
I remember when I was using even domestic low powered valves, power
cycling was to be avoided.
There could probably be found a way to keep the valves powered, but not actually generating RF (or not radiating it). Whether this was actually
done, I don't know. Possibly for the one-off event of Marconi's death -
and the fact that was in 1937, when things weren't quite as unchangeable
as today - they might have.
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 15 Nov 2021 at 10:18:51, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote (my responses usually follow
points raised):
On 14/11/2021 23:44, MB wrote:There could probably be found a way to keep the valves powered, but not
On 14/11/2021 22:43, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:Given the thermal shocks that could be caused to some quite expensive
But does "went silent" mean they were turned off, or just transmitted a >> >>> dead carrier?
All transmitter would have been manned, I would not be surprised if they >> >> dropped carrier for the two minutes
components by turning a high powered valve based transmitter off, then
back on, I'd be surprised if they did. They were designed to operate
24/7 at a constant power level.
I remember when I was using even domestic low powered valves, power
cycling was to be avoided.
actually generating RF (or not radiating it). Whether this was actually
done, I don't know. Possibly for the one-off event of Marconi's death -
and the fact that was in 1937, when things weren't quite as unchangeable
as today - they might have.
In the late '60s I worked for a time at BBC Skelton SW station.
The Marconi BD272C 250kW senders* we used were regularly shut
down for wavechanging (coil swapping). The filament 9.6V supply
was left on to keep the BY1144L power triodes in the PA warm but
obvs. the 11kV HT was off.
<https://www.transmitter.be/mar-bd272.html> ><http://www.tork.com.tr/documents/by1144l.pdf>
We were cautioned not to wear rings on our fingers when coil changing
because the filament busbars were close enough together that they could >easily be bridged by a stray wedding ring. 9.6V at >700A would ensure >instant vaporisation of such a ring. That may well have been a horror
story though because we always wore asbestos gauntlets to handle the
coils; with large circulating currents in them they got extremely hot.
* Short wave transmitters are called 'senders', not 'transmitters'.
Here's a pic of my souvenir from those days that hangs in my shed;
it's from when the old Marconi SWB18 senders were decommissioned.
<https://www.dropbox.com/s/42ubmcpwgujv08n/sender62.jpg?dl=0>
* Short wave transmitters are called 'senders', not 'transmitters'.
Given the thermal shocks that could be caused to some quite expensive components by turning a high powered valve based transmitter off, then
back on, I'd be surprised if they did. They were designed to operate
24/7 at a constant power level.
I remember when I was using even domestic low powered valves, power
cycling was to be avoided.
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:07:19 +0000, g8dgc.2@gmail.com (g8dgc) wrote:
* Short wave transmitters are called 'senders', not 'transmitters'.
It's also the German word for any transmitter.
Rod.
Hi, Rod, I was on TA28 at Wood Norton with you.
On Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:07:19 +0000, g8dgc.2@gmail.com (g8dgc) wrote:
* Short wave transmitters are called 'senders', not 'transmitters'.
It's also the German word for any transmitter.
Rod.
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Tue, 16 Nov 2021 22:07:19 +0000, g8dgc.2@gmail.com (g8dgc) wrote:
* Short wave transmitters are called 'senders', not 'transmitters'.
It's also the German word for any transmitter.
Rod.
Hi, Rod, I was on TA28 at Wood Norton with you.
Hi, Rod, I was on TA28 at Wood Norton with you.
Yes, I remember TA28, and I think we swapped emails about this. I
actually found some old photos and in one of the group shots taken one drunken night (the course encompassed my 20th birthday) I'm sure I've correctly identified which one was you. Maybe I'll get round to
scanning a few and you can tell me if I'm correct. Happy days.
Rod.
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
"Sn!pe" <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1pit6l4.s06n59msj8a4N%snipeco.2@gmail.com...
My pet rock Gordon just is.
I'd have thought that your Pet Rock would be called Trelawney - which only >> means something if you listen to Classic FM.
I didn't think PT did rock, he's more into classical on R3.
Is he on Classic FM now? That is at least a station with a
rock station stylee playlist, but of course it's pop-classical
with commercial breaks. (ptooie)
Anyway, Gordon is more into zen stylee meditative music.
# Ommm...
My pet rock Gordon just is.
"Sn!pe" <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote in message news:1pit6l4.s06n59msj8a4N%snipeco.2@gmail.com...
My pet rock Gordon just is.
I'd have thought that your Pet Rock would be called Trelawney - which only means something if you listen to Classic FM.
On Wed, 17 Nov 2021 at 22:56:10, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
"Sn!pe" <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1pit6l4.s06n59msj8a4N%snipeco.2@gmail.com...
My pet rock Gordon just is.
I'd have thought that your Pet Rock would be called Trelawney - which only >> means something if you listen to Classic FM.
I didn't think PT did rock, he's more into classical on R3.
Is he on Classic FM now? That is at least a station with a
rock station stylee playlist, but of course it's pop-classical
with commercial breaks. (ptooie)
Anyway, Gordon is more into zen stylee meditative music.
# Ommm...
I think NY was just punning on PT's forename and Sn!pe's signature (-:
Radio transmitters all over the world went silent after Marconi's death.
In the past many transmitters relied on the presence of programme to
stay on, in the event of programme they would shut down or switch to a reserve feed. That is why they would ensure the ambient noise level was high enough to stop the programme failure detectors dropping out.
Similarly outside programme hours there would be a "bong" at intervals
to similarly make sure the programme failure detector did not drop out.
On Sun, 14 Nov 2021 at 19:08:06, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
(my responses usually follow points raised):
J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Was there ever a time when transmitters were actually powered off,
rather than on but transmitting silence, on remembrance day/Sunday?
Why would you turn them off, when you can more easily mute the feed?
I wasn't saying it would be preferable (though personally I _would_
prefer it), I was just wondering if there was a time when it was done,
rather than just muting the feed.
I think in the radio amateur world, most _do_ refrain from transmitting during that period. (Anything with a continuous on probably remains so, because of the difficulty - e. g. accessing remote automatic sites - of changing it.)
Ys, it does seem to turn itself up gradually, doesn't it.
Which seems to be the opposite of what happens nowadays, not sure if
some form of AGC somewhere gets "worried" by the relative silence and
adjusts, or whether they manually turn up the effects mic to emphasise
that they are broadcasting the silence? I suspect if a mouse farted
in Big Ben this morning it would be heard on every station ...
When I started listening to the radio in 1969, there were no night
programs in the Netherlands. All Dutch stations stopped at midnight (or earlier) and all transmitters were switched off after the national hymne
and a few minutes of 1 kHz tone.
After 10 minutes or so all transmitters (mediumwave and VHF-FM) were
switched off.
Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
When I started listening to the radio in 1969, there were no night
programs in the Netherlands. All Dutch stations stopped at midnight (or earlier) and all transmitters were switched off after the national hymne and a few minutes of 1 kHz tone.
I seem to remember the transmitter for the English shortwave programme
on Sunday morning ("Happy Station") cut its carrier almost as soon as
the last note of the national anthem had died away. Perhaps they needed
to promptly re-tune the transmitter ready for the next broadcast.
Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
When I started listening to the radio in 1969, there were no night
programs in the Netherlands. All Dutch stations stopped at midnight (or
earlier) and all transmitters were switched off after the national hymne
and a few minutes of 1 kHz tone.
I seem to remember the transmitter for the English shortwave programme
on Sunday morning ("Happy Station") cut its carrier almost as soon as
the last note of the national anthem had died away. Perhaps they needed
to promptly re-tune the transmitter ready for the next broadcast.
After 10 minutes or so all transmitters (mediumwave and VHF-FM) were
switched off.
I presume the short wave transmitters would have continued during the
night, so as to take advantage of the various time zones (or did the
Dutch colonies have transmitters in their own territories?).
That's interesting, so they might not have needed to cover every
direction from beam stations in the Netherlands?
The rotating wooden aerial system at Huizen was a wonderful piece of engineering.
Radio Nederland Wereldomroep had (I think) 50 minutes programs and then
there were 10 minutes to change the antenna for another part of the world.
RNW had in those days transmitters in Lopik (Netherlands), on Bonaire (Caribbean) and Madagascar (east Africa), so they could reach most parts
of the world.
I grew up (is that English?) in the 60's and 70's in Naarden, which is
about 5 km from Huizen.
Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
[...]
Radio Nederland Wereldomroep had (I think) 50 minutes programs and then
there were 10 minutes to change the antenna for another part of the world.
Yes, you have reminded me: I remember leaving the reciever tuned to the frequency after the "Happy Station" programme had finished and later
hearing a much weaker carrier with a programme in Dutch.
RNW had in those days transmitters in Lopik (Netherlands), on Bonaire
(Caribbean) and Madagascar (east Africa), so they could reach most parts
of the world.
That's interesting, so they might not have needed to cover every
direction from beam stations in the Netherlands?
The rotating wooden aerial system at Huizen was a wonderful piece of engineering.
I grew up (is that English?)
Op 1-1-2022 om 10:27 schreef Liz Tuddenham:
The rotating wooden aerial system at Huizen was a wonderful piece of engineering.
Huizen is history. I think that was before 1940.
I do not know about antenna's there.
I grew up (is that English?) in the 60's and 70's in Naarden, which is
about 5 km from Huizen.
But 50 years ago there were no LW/MW/SW antenna's in Huizen.
In those days they were in Lopik (near Utrecht).
Apparently there is still a model of the aerials on a traffic island in Huizen.
Rink wrote:
I grew up (is that English?)
Absolutely.
On 01/01/2022 12:31, Andy Burns wrote:
Rink wrote:
I grew up (is that English?)
Absolutely.
Rink, in Yorkshire we say, "Grew up? I was dragged up, like rhubarb
under a bucket."
Bill
On 01/01/2022 12:31, Andy Burns wrote:
Rink wrote:
I grew up (is that English?)
Absolutely.
Rink, in Yorkshire we say, "Grew up? I was dragged up, like rhubarb
under a bucket."
On 01/01/2022 22:06, williamwright wrote:
On 01/01/2022 12:31, Andy Burns wrote:
Rink wrote:
I grew up (is that English?)
Absolutely.
Rink, in Yorkshire we say, "Grew up? I was dragged up, like rhubarb
under a bucket."
Is forcing rhubarb legal?
Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
Op 1-1-2022 om 10:27 schreef Liz Tuddenham:
The rotating wooden aerial system at Huizen was a wonderful piece of
engineering.
Huizen is history. I think that was before 1940.
Yes, they were blown up by the Dutch army when the country was invaded.
There is a good article on their construction in one of the Philips
Technical Reviews from the late 1930s.
I do not know about antenna's there.
I grew up (is that English?) in the 60's and 70's in Naarden, which is
about 5 km from Huizen.
But 50 years ago there were no LW/MW/SW antenna's in Huizen.
In those days they were in Lopik (near Utrecht).
Apparently there is still a model of the aerials on a traffic island in Huizen. They were two gigantic wooden masts carrying a 'curtain' array, mounted on a turntable that rotated on a circular railway track. In
order to get it working quickly, before the motors had arrived, they
used workmen to crank it around with a winch.
I have remembered part of a poem which was read by Eddie Startz during
his programme. It is about the way English people cannot pronounce
Dutch place names correctly and I can only remember the beginning and
the end:
The Englishman will call it "High-zen"
A fact a Dutchman finds surprisin'
----
----
----
But only one in every thousand
Pronounces it correctly: "Ho(u)w-zen".
On 01/01/2022 16:23, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Apparently there is still a model of the aerials on a traffic island in
Huizen.
https://goo.gl/maps/118xuCmVH42jCCaV6
----
But only one in every thousand
Pronounces it correctly: "Ho(u)w-zen".
Now I live in Maarssen near Utrecht, which is about 30km from Huizen.
I'm going to see this roundabout.
----
But only one in every thousand
Pronounces it correctly: "Ho(u)w-zen".
I do not know this poem, but the "ui" in Huizen
is not pronounced as the "ou" in thousand.....
You can hear it here:
https://nl.forvo.com/word/huizen/
best one is: "Ingesproken door Jazzed (Vrouwelijk uit Nederland)"
On 07/01/2022 14:34, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
...
Now I live in Maarssen near Utrecht, which is about 30km from Huizen.Not many people have made a pilgrimage to see a traffic roundabout :-)
I'm going to see this roundabout.
As a resident of Basingstoke for over 50 years I've never seen any
tourists here !
Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
...
Now I live in Maarssen near Utrecht, which is about 30km from Huizen.Not many people have made a pilgrimage to see a traffic roundabout :-)
I'm going to see this roundabout.
In article <j3r3u0Fcam0U1@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 07/01/2022 14:34, Liz Tuddenham wrote:I once viisted Basingstoke, as opposed to driving round tne ring roads. It was to attend a concert in which my brother was appearing in the choir. At The Anvil.
Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:As a resident of Basingstoke for over 50 years I've never seen any
...
Now I live in Maarssen near Utrecht, which is about 30km from Huizen.Not many people have made a pilgrimage to see a traffic roundabout :-)
I'm going to see this roundabout.
tourists here !
In article <j3r3u0Fcam0U1@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 07/01/2022 14:34, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Rink <rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
...
Now I live in Maarssen near Utrecht, which is about 30km from Huizen.Not many people have made a pilgrimage to see a traffic roundabout :-)
I'm going to see this roundabout.
As a resident of Basingstoke for over 50 years I've never seen any
tourists here !
I once viisted Basingstoke, as opposed to driving round tne ring roads. It was to attend a concert in which my brother was appearing in the choir. At The Anvil.
As a resident of Basingstoke for over 50 years I've never seen any
tourists here !
...now I have to go away and practice my pronunciation of
"Scheveningen".
I once viisted Basingstoke, as opposed to driving round tne ring roads. It >> was to attend a concert in which my brother was appearing in the choir. At >> The Anvil.Having posted the above, I realised that I once went to a lecture at the
Sony works alongside the M3.
On 07/01/2022 15:18, Mark Carver wrote:
As a resident of Basingstoke for over 50 years I've never seen any
tourists here !
You've not been looking in the right place. I have delivered quite a
few to the watersports centre. Ah, sorry, as you were, that's
Bracknell. AKA "doughnut city" for its roundabouts.
Basingstoke has (or had) Fanum House, the HQ of the AA (Not the
now-sober lot) which, when it was built, was the tallest building East
of New York and West of London.
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