• Subtitle background (or lack thereof)

    From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 9 21:26:07 2023
    Watching LNOTP, waiting for the party to start; the last piece of
    (fairly) serious music has in-vision subtitles (I presume it's not in
    English).

    They are of the white-text-on-a-thin-black-outline type.

    WHEN is somebody going to finally admit that those DON'T WORK, if
    there's a varied background image? The bits over the lighter parts of
    the image are hard to read. Yes, I realise they're technically very
    clever, making the black cutout slightly outside the lettering. (And no, there's nothing wrong with my telly.) Oh, the text telling me what the
    next piece is, is similarly hard to read, for the same reason.

    I've got the normal SD subtitles on - we're now in between pieces, so
    the commentators are chatting - and those (with their solid black
    background strips) are _so_ much easier to read.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser

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  • From Brian Gaff@21:1/5 to J. P. Gilliver on Sun Sep 10 10:06:16 2023
    I never knew about his, being very much blind these days, but its rather
    like when we used to get paper magazine articles with the text written
    across bits of a picture in very low contrast colours. Nobody could read
    those either.
    Brian

    --

    --:
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    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "J. P. Gilliver" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message news:fYh4GspfTN$kFwhi@255soft.uk...
    Watching LNOTP, waiting for the party to start; the last piece of (fairly) serious music has in-vision subtitles (I presume it's not in English).

    They are of the white-text-on-a-thin-black-outline type.

    WHEN is somebody going to finally admit that those DON'T WORK, if there's
    a varied background image? The bits over the lighter parts of the image
    are hard to read. Yes, I realise they're technically very clever, making
    the black cutout slightly outside the lettering. (And no, there's nothing wrong with my telly.) Oh, the text telling me what the next piece is, is similarly hard to read, for the same reason.

    I've got the normal SD subtitles on - we're now in between pieces, so the commentators are chatting - and those (with their solid black background strips) are _so_ much easier to read.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Quantum particles: the dreams that stuff is made of - David Moser

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  • From JMB99@21:1/5 to Brian Gaff on Sun Sep 10 12:53:05 2023
    On 10/09/2023 10:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
    I never knew about his, being very much blind these days, but its rather
    like when we used to get paper magazine articles with the text written
    across bits of a picture in very low contrast colours. Nobody could read those either.



    Still happens, it is considered artistic!

    Morrisons had a range of ready meals with yellow text on a light green background. Many other ready meals have other unreadable instructions.

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  • From Brian Gaff@21:1/5 to mb@nospam.net on Mon Sep 11 10:48:37 2023
    I know, we blind now have to use an app to read the bar code, and if we are lucky there will be info on that as well.
    Brian

    --

    --:
    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "JMB99" <mb@nospam.net> wrote in message news:udkan1$if7o$1@dont-email.me...
    On 10/09/2023 10:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
    I never knew about his, being very much blind these days, but its rather
    like when we used to get paper magazine articles with the text written
    across bits of a picture in very low contrast colours. Nobody could read
    those either.



    Still happens, it is considered artistic!

    Morrisons had a range of ready meals with yellow text on a light green background. Many other ready meals have other unreadable instructions.



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  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to mb@nospam.net on Mon Sep 11 14:03:14 2023
    JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 10/09/2023 10:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
    I never knew about his, being very much blind these days, but its rather like when we used to get paper magazine articles with the text written across bits of a picture in very low contrast colours. Nobody could read those either.



    Still happens, it is considered artistic!

    Morrisons had a range of ready meals with yellow text on a light green background. Many other ready meals have other unreadable instructions.


    A few years ago I needed to look up the e-mail address of someone at a
    nearby arts-based educational establishment. Their website was
    impossible to read, with yellow lettering on a white beckground and I eventually derived the information I needed by downloading the source
    code and reading it from there..

    In my e-mail I mentioned how dreadful the website was and I hoped the extablishment would use it as a shining example to the students of how
    NOT to write a website. Unknown to me, they had recently started a
    website design department and that website had been written by the head
    of department.

    My contact circulated my e-mail to the students and staff, where it
    apparently caused a certain amount of amusement.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid on Mon Sep 11 14:20:05 2023
    In message <1qgwbzz.13uyqz1161ugj6N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> at
    Mon, 11 Sep 2023 14:03:14, Liz Tuddenham
    <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> writes
    []
    A few years ago I needed to look up the e-mail address of someone at a
    nearby arts-based educational establishment. Their website was
    impossible to read, with yellow lettering on a white beckground and I >eventually derived the information I needed by downloading the source
    code and reading it from there..

    Sometimes just dragging the mouse over the relevant part of the page
    will highlight it in a more legible combination, or at least let you
    copy and paste it to something. Though to do so you need to know which
    _is_ the relevant part of the page, of course.

    In my e-mail I mentioned how dreadful the website was and I hoped the >extablishment would use it as a shining example to the students of how
    NOT to write a website. Unknown to me, they had recently started a
    website design department and that website had been written by the head
    of department.

    My contact circulated my e-mail to the students and staff, where it >apparently caused a certain amount of amusement.

    What fun!

    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Imagine a world with no hypothetical situations...

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  • From JMB99@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Mon Sep 11 17:15:59 2023
    On 11/09/2023 14:03, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    A few years ago I needed to look up the e-mail address of someone at a
    nearby arts-based educational establishment. Their website was
    impossible to read, with yellow lettering on a white beckground and I eventually derived the information I needed by downloading the source
    code and reading it from there..


    Several times, the only way that I have been able to read some text on a website has been to highlight it with the mouse.

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  • From tony sayer@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 11 18:32:02 2023
    In article <1qgwbzz.13uyqz1161ugj6N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
    Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
    JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 10/09/2023 10:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
    I never knew about his, being very much blind these days, but its rather >> > like when we used to get paper magazine articles with the text written
    across bits of a picture in very low contrast colours. Nobody could read >> > those either.



    Still happens, it is considered artistic!

    Morrisons had a range of ready meals with yellow text on a light green
    background. Many other ready meals have other unreadable instructions.


    A few years ago I needed to look up the e-mail address of someone at a
    nearby arts-based educational establishment. Their website was
    impossible to read, with yellow lettering on a white beckground and I >eventually derived the information I needed by downloading the source
    code and reading it from there..

    In my e-mail I mentioned how dreadful the website was and I hoped the >extablishment would use it as a shining example to the students of how
    NOT to write a website. Unknown to me, they had recently started a
    website design department and that website had been written by the head
    of department.

    My contact circulated my e-mail to the students and staff, where it >apparently caused a certain amount of amusement.



    Glad to hear it! Too many webshites are like that, bloody unreadable!..
    --
    Tony Sayer


    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

    Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

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  • From Brian Gaff@21:1/5 to tony sayer on Tue Sep 12 16:12:19 2023
    Yes indeed, strangely enough for a screenreader the colour seldom matters at all, its keeping the headings and tab order of links and not labelling
    buttons as links and vice versa that matters to us. I hate them saying click the red triangle to the right, when you find its zillions of tabs away and
    just labelled link or button or its a picture no alt tag saying red triangle
    on it. It takes but a few seconds to do this when writing the page after
    all.
    Brian

    --

    --:
    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "tony sayer" <tony@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message news:RqlXUKBS80$kFwTe@bancom.co.uk...
    In article <1qgwbzz.13uyqz1161ugj6N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
    Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
    JMB99 <mb@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 10/09/2023 10:06, Brian Gaff wrote:
    I never knew about his, being very much blind these days, but its
    rather
    like when we used to get paper magazine articles with the text written >>> > across bits of a picture in very low contrast colours. Nobody could
    read
    those either.



    Still happens, it is considered artistic!

    Morrisons had a range of ready meals with yellow text on a light green
    background. Many other ready meals have other unreadable instructions.


    A few years ago I needed to look up the e-mail address of someone at a >>nearby arts-based educational establishment. Their website was
    impossible to read, with yellow lettering on a white beckground and I >>eventually derived the information I needed by downloading the source
    code and reading it from there..

    In my e-mail I mentioned how dreadful the website was and I hoped the >>extablishment would use it as a shining example to the students of how
    NOT to write a website. Unknown to me, they had recently started a
    website design department and that website had been written by the head
    of department.

    My contact circulated my e-mail to the students and staff, where it >>apparently caused a certain amount of amusement.



    Glad to hear it! Too many webshites are like that, bloody unreadable!..
    --
    Tony Sayer


    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

    Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.



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  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Brian Gaff on Tue Sep 12 19:16:47 2023
    In message <udpv4m$1k0mk$1@dont-email.me> at Tue, 12 Sep 2023 16:12:19,
    Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> writes
    Yes indeed, strangely enough for a screenreader the colour seldom matters at >all, its keeping the headings and tab order of links and not labelling >buttons as links and vice versa that matters to us. I hate them saying click >the red triangle to the right, when you find its zillions of tabs away and >just labelled link or button or its a picture no alt tag saying red triangle >on it. It takes but a few seconds to do this when writing the page after
    all.
    Brian

    In theory, you can I think report them - if American, anyway - under the Americans with Disabilities act (or some such name); I think we may even
    have something similar. In practice, it's going to be far too much
    trouble (especially here) - the problem usually not being the
    illegality, but actually getting some person to understand what the
    problem actually _is_.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    The bottleneck is always at the top of the bottle. - Attributed to Peter Drucker (re management), by @Eric_Partaker 2023-7-14

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