• Producer Choice

    From MB@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 3 17:54:40 2023
    The February edition of Prospero has review of a book which tells some
    of the story of 'Producer Choice'.

    Make an interesting read.

    Page 4

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/documents/prospero/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Youlden@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 6 22:26:09 2023
    On 03/02/2023 17:54, MB wrote:
    The February edition of Prospero has review of a book which tells some
    of the story of 'Producer Choice'.

    Make an interesting read.

    Page 4

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/documents/prospero/



    John Malby was my oppo as Comms Planing Manager in Birmingham when I was
    in Bristol. Our experience was very similar to his and I can vouch for
    what he says.

    One thing I suggested was to be allowed to take the department away from
    BH into an industrial unit close the the M5 at Clevedon. A lot of heavy overheads would disappear.

    For some reason the suggestion was refused.
    --

    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dickie mint@21:1/5 to Chris Youlden on Wed Feb 8 18:24:28 2023
    On 06/02/2023 22:26, Chris Youlden wrote:
    On 03/02/2023 17:54, MB wrote:
    The February edition of Prospero has review of a book which tells some
    of the story of 'Producer Choice'.

    Make an interesting read.

    Page 4

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/documents/prospero/



    John Malby was my oppo as Comms Planing Manager in Birmingham when I was
    in Bristol. Our experience was very similar to his and I can vouch for
    what he says.

    One thing I suggested was to be allowed to take the department away from
    BH into an industrial unit close the the M5 at Clevedon. A lot of heavy overheads would disappear.

    For some reason the suggestion was refused.
    Hi Chris,

    As we supervisors rotated through Comms Planning Producer Choice was a nighmare. Thank goodness John had it gripped! I remember he trawled
    through the accounts and found one with a large fund. Oh, said our
    accountant, that's the DG's Pension Fund! You can't use that.

    I think that was also the time the accountant asked why we had such a
    large amount of costly stores. "24/7 broadcasting?" he was told!

    Richard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MB@21:1/5 to Dickie mint on Wed Feb 8 22:00:46 2023
    On 08/02/2023 18:24, Dickie mint wrote:
    I think that was also the time the accountant asked why we had such a
    large amount of costly stores. "24/7 broadcasting?" he was told!



    Bean counters hate stocking of spares, I have across a few places where
    they charge departments, projects etc with the full new cost of
    everything. So the bean counters can save money throwing things away or selling at well below their true value.

    If you return items or have them sold then the money does not go to you
    of course, probably credited to the bean counters cost code.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Youlden@21:1/5 to Dickie mint on Thu Feb 9 14:51:26 2023
    On 08/02/2023 18:24, Dickie mint wrote:
    On 06/02/2023 22:26, Chris Youlden wrote:
    On 03/02/2023 17:54, MB wrote:
    The February edition of Prospero has review of a book which tells
    some of the story of 'Producer Choice'.

    Make an interesting read.

    Page 4

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/mypension/documents/prospero/



    John Malby was my oppo as Comms Planing Manager in Birmingham when I
    was in Bristol. Our experience was very similar to his and I can vouch
    for what he says.

    One thing I suggested was to be allowed to take the department away
    from BH into an industrial unit close the the M5 at Clevedon. A lot of
    heavy overheads would disappear.

    For some reason the suggestion was refused.
    Hi Chris,

    As we supervisors rotated through Comms Planning Producer Choice was a nighmare. Thank goodness John had it gripped!  I remember he trawled
    through the accounts and found one with a large fund. Oh, said our accountant, that's the DG's Pension Fund! You can't use that.

    I think that was also the time the accountant asked why we had such a
    large amount of costly stores. "24/7 broadcasting?" he was told!

    Richard

    The financial advisor we were given came to us following the big
    internal revamp of the NHS. You may recall that the NHS internal market
    was one enormous cock-up. I attach a link below for anyone who has
    forgotten what happened.

    <https://navigator.health.org.uk/theme/national-health-service-and-community-care-act-1990>

    I asked the advisor about his work with the NHS reforms and he said he
    was really proud over what had been achieved.

    That really gave me confidence as to what was about to happen in the BBC.

    One outcome was that we (Comms) were kicked out of our offices because
    the Natural History Unit (one of the most highly esteemed programme
    makers) wanted them so they could all be in a suite of offices
    together. So they redecorated the offices, brought in new furniture, and
    the NHU moved in. Some time later the NHU surrendered several offices,
    packed their staff in like sardines because they had just been given the
    bill for the space they were using. Producer Choice in action!

    --

    Chris

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 10 15:37:29 2023
    On Thu, 9 Feb 2023 14:51:26 +0000, Chris Youlden <fbx@youlden.co.uk>
    wrote:

    <snip>

    The financial advisor we were given came to us following the big
    internal revamp of the NHS. You may recall that the NHS internal market
    was one enormous cock-up. I attach a link below for anyone who has
    forgotten what happened.

    <https://navigator.health.org.uk/theme/national-health-service-and-community-care-act-1990>

    I asked the advisor about his work with the NHS reforms and he said he
    was really proud over what had been achieved.

    That really gave me confidence as to what was about to happen in the BBC.

    The NHS seemed to us (I was Chair of London TV2 at the time) to be
    about a couple of years further down the same road that management
    wanted to take the BBC. Studying the press, it seemed to us that the
    NHS's "internal market" - and, looking from the outside in, we were
    very far from convinced that it was a true market-based system - was
    having the effect of removing funds from clinical functions to pay for
    the bureaucratic overheads.

    One of my then colleagues was married to a senior nurse in the NHS,
    and through her, we had a dialogue with one of the health service
    unions, which confirmed our analysis and revealed that the health
    service union believed it was detecting that some of the "reforms"
    might be about to be reversed, as, indeed, they subsequently were.
    This was interesting, because the Government at the time was stoutly
    denying that anything of the sort was in contemplation.

    BECTU therefore asked the BBC at national level to defer the
    introduction of Producer Choice for 12 months in order to learn
    lessons from the NHS. This request was denied out-of-hand. We
    inferred from this that the advertised reason for Producer Choice -
    improving internal efficiency - was unlikely to be the real one. We
    simply could not see how the small army of accountants, cost managers,
    internal sales and PR people, contract compliance teams etc etc etc
    that would clearly be required to operate Producer Choice in the way
    it had been presented to us could possibly result in more broadcasting
    hours for the same revenue funding. The experience of the NHS
    strongly suggested that the reverse was by far the more likely
    outcome. We thought that the funding required would end up coming
    from somewhere else, and that the "somewhere else" was likely to be
    staff terms and conditions. In this, we were proved absolutely
    correct.

    In an effort to keep this vaguely on-topic for a technical newsgroup,
    Producer Choice was the end of the old BBC maxim that "we make our end
    as good as it can be, so all the choice as to quality rests with the
    viewer/ listener". Technical quality decisions were, ultimately, made
    by accountants who had to learn the hard way the lesson we had tried
    in vain to teach management: that it is easy to be mediocre at low
    cost, but that wit and ingenuity are required to be good for not much
    more.

    My own view at the time was that I was not remotely interested in
    being mediocre, and if management were going to stop me trying to be
    good, I would rather do something else for a living.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MB@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 11 09:52:56 2023
    It seemed to be a regular occurrence for our boss to return from
    mamangement meetings talking about 'reducing layers of management', the examples they were given were usually completely spurious. One time he
    said that a girl on the checkout at the local supermarket could speak
    directly to the manager if she had a problem. So a colleague asked next
    time he was there, it was complete rubbish, they would not consider
    speaking to the manager directly and went through a long chain of command!

    I know that when we were part of the BBC, I spoke to quite senior
    managers quite often and knew some of them. After privatisation I don't remember ever having any contact with anyone particularly senior.

    Any time they removed 'layers', you could just about guarantee that a
    few years later they would back to the original structure!

    We were once all summoned for a training session on QA and BS3939, three
    large organisations were quoted as benefiting from BS3939 - they were
    probably the most disorganised companies that any of us knew!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From SimonM@21:1/5 to Chris Youlden on Tue Feb 14 10:03:14 2023
    On 09/02/2023 14:51, Chris Youlden wrote:
    One outcome was that we (Comms) were kicked out of
    our offices because the Natural History Unit (one
    of the most highly esteemed programme makers)
    wanted them  so they could all be in a suite of
    offices together. So they redecorated the offices,
    brought in new furniture, and the NHU moved in.
    Some time later the NHU surrendered several
    offices, packed their staff in like sardines
    because they had just been given the bill for the
    space they were using. Producer Choice in action!

    One of the reasons I resigned in 1989 (there were
    many, mostly personal) was that the NHU started
    giving its production managers company cars.

    This was after the infamous "take a metre off
    every dimension" thing that happened to the new
    building in Bristol, rumoured to have resulted in
    insufficient space for equipment and too-small
    ductwork to fit component video cabling.

    The writing was on the wall, ready for 1992.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Paul Ratcliffe@21:1/5 to Roger Wilmut on Fri May 12 13:12:07 2023
    On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 13:02:51 +0000, Roger Wilmut <email@domain.com> wrote:

    One Saturday morning, during the height of 'Producer Choice' I sat in a
    Bush House studio waiting to do a Russian Pop programme, which was
    delayed while the producer went across the road to W.H.Smith to buy a
    copy of one of the records he wanted, because it was cheaper than
    getting it from the BBC Gramophone Library.

    Yes, around about the same time someone was despatched from our place
    to the same well known chain to buy a VHS of a programme, which we
    then had to transfer to Beta so it could be edited in to a news
    package. I made my feelings known to the producer of the day, but he
    just bleated that it was cheaper than getting a line booking from
    Windmill Road to do it properly. He didn't care about the picture
    quality.
    This of course involved real money going outside, rather than just
    changing numbers on a bean-counters' 'spreadsheet'.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From J. P. Gilliver@21:1/5 to Paul Ratcliffe on Sat May 13 00:17:09 2023
    In message <slrnu5sep7.2tgk.abuse@news.pr.network> at Fri, 12 May 2023 13:12:07, Paul Ratcliffe <abuse@orac12.clara34.co56.uk78> writes
    On Fri, 10 Feb 2023 13:02:51 +0000, Roger Wilmut <email@domain.com> wrote:

    One Saturday morning, during the height of 'Producer Choice' I sat in a
    Bush House studio waiting to do a Russian Pop programme, which was
    delayed while the producer went across the road to W.H.Smith to buy a
    copy of one of the records he wanted, because it was cheaper than
    getting it from the BBC Gramophone Library.

    Yes, around about the same time someone was despatched from our place
    to the same well known chain to buy a VHS of a programme, which we
    then had to transfer to Beta so it could be edited in to a news
    package. I made my feelings known to the producer of the day, but he
    just bleated that it was cheaper than getting a line booking from
    Windmill Road to do it properly. He didn't care about the picture
    quality.
    This of course involved real money going outside, rather than just
    changing numbers on a bean-counters' 'spreadsheet'.

    I remember reading that, on the original "All creatures great and
    small", they needed to make up a brass plaque (might have been when
    Siegfried made James a partner), so put in to props department to have
    one faked up - and it came back as a quote noticeably higher than to
    have a real one made up locally. I forget whether they actually did the
    latter, though; I could easily imagine there might have been reasons to
    still use props.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    But remember, in a permissive society, it is also permissible to stay at home and have a nice cup of tea instead. Andrew Collins, RT 2015/2/14-20

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MB@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 13 09:51:53 2023
    Probably not exclusive to the BBC but I used to hear some ridiculously
    high costs of processing a Local Purchase Order or even Petty Cash
    Voucher. I did my bit to keep costs down when buying something costing
    just a few pounds by just taking that amount in stamps out of the stamp
    box.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)