I listened to this the other day, it sounds to me like the Government is quite likely to throw the international listeners of languages only just getting established under the nearest bus simply to save a few pennies.
They can all listen on the internet now, can't they? Except when a
regime that disagrees with us blocks their access - the very occasion
when you need an alternative delivery service.
Radio Romania is one of the few survivors of the exodus from shortwave. Presumably they are still using old Soviet technology and are still
putting a huge signal into the UK.
Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
I listened to this the other day, it sounds to me like the Government is
quite likely to throw the international listeners of languages only just
getting established under the nearest bus simply to save a few pennies.
They can all listen on the internet now, can't they? Except when a
regime that disagrees with us blocks their access - the very occasion
when you need an alternative delivery service.
Radio Romania is one of the few survivors of the exodus from shortwave. Presumably they are still using old Soviet technology and are still
putting a huge signal into the UK.
--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk
On 02/12/2022 18:05, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
They can all listen on the internet now, can't they? Except when a
regime that disagrees with us blocks their access - the very occasion
when you need an alternative delivery service.
Radio Romania is one of the few survivors of the exodus from shortwave.
Presumably they are still using old Soviet technology and are still
putting a huge signal into the UK.
Many can but there lots of parts of the world where people can hardly
afford a radio of any sort. One of the reasons for the wind-up radio was that they could not afford having to keep buying batteries.
I mean World Service programming is often interesting since where else
would you hear clandestine recordings from inside Russian conscript camps about the rioting and descent about them being forced to fight a useless war in Ukraine?
I listened to this the other day, it sounds to me like the Government is >quite likely to throw the international listeners of languages only just >getting established under the nearest bus simply to save a few pennies.
Brian
Top posted:
If the BBC World service stops broadcasting for 24(?)hrs the nuclear
subs will have deduced the UK no longer exists and will attack the
nearest and last enemy.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bbc-radio-show-may-be-preventing-nuclear-apocalypse-2018-8?r=US&IR=T
On 04/12/2022 13:24, John Williamson wrote:
The Today programme mentioned in the article is on Radio 4, and the subs
were reputed to listen for it on Long Wave. Nothing to do with the World
Service.
The main problem now is that the Radio 4 Long Wave transmitter is now
under notice of closure due to problems getting replacements for the
output valves.
It is an old story and the CND types love to use to mock the nuclear deterrent.
I suspect the commanders' instruction say to try every possible system
to make contact with Northwood, then try to contact other UK defences
assets, then try contact friendly countries like the US, then try
commercial communications, then listen to news transmissions to see if
they can work out what has happened.
Radio 4 Long Wave will be mentioned because it is one of the few Long
Wave services still operating. Most have closed, are closing shortly
or running a limited service.
There are said to be a few spare valves and they are routines
refurbished and re-used.
The problem is that the three Long Wave transmitters are very
expensive to operate and have few listeners.
The Today programme mentioned in the article is on Radio 4, and the subs
were reputed to listen for it on Long Wave. Nothing to do with the World Service.
The main problem now is that the Radio 4 Long Wave transmitter is now
under notice of closure due to problems getting replacements for the
output valves.
They also tell me because they are so behind with swap outs, the
teleswitch service will remain in place for the time being. Dunno what they'll do if those valves conk out before they've replaced everything,
(my guess, the teleswitches will just free run)
On 04/12/2022 17:42, Mark Carver wrote:
They also tell me because they are so behind with swap outs, theLast time I checked, the teleswitches remained on day rate unless they
teleswitch service will remain in place for the time being. Dunno what
they'll do if those valves conk out before they've replaced everything,
(my guess, the teleswitches will just free run)
were receiving the correct (FM?) signal on 198 kHz.
On 04/12/2022 17:42, Mark Carver wrote:
They also tell me because they are so behind with swap outs, theLast time I checked, the teleswitches remained on day rate unless they
teleswitch service will remain in place for the time being. Dunno what
they'll do if those valves conk out before they've replaced everything,
(my guess, the teleswitches will just free run)
were receiving the correct (FM?) signal on 198 kHz.
On 04/12/2022 18:15, John Williamson wrote:
On 04/12/2022 17:42, Mark Carver wrote:I can't believe that a 'fire and forget' system, with no return path
They also tell me because they are so behind with swap outs, theLast time I checked, the teleswitches remained on day rate unless they
teleswitch service will remain in place for the time being. Dunno what
they'll do if those valves conk out before they've replaced everything,
(my guess, the teleswitches will just free run)
were receiving the correct (FM?) signal on 198 kHz.
would operate like that, without any fail safe ?
I thought without a signal the switches just revert to free
running/default setting. I can't believe 100% of them have ever had a reliable signal (particularly in the last couple of decades)
My mother's teleswitch doesn't switch the metering, it only energies the
off peak circuit
On 04/12/2022 17:27, MB wrote:
On 04/12/2022 13:24, John Williamson wrote:
The Today programme mentioned in the article is on Radio 4, and the subs >>> were reputed to listen for it on Long Wave. Nothing to do with the World >>> Service.
The main problem now is that the Radio 4 Long Wave transmitter is now
under notice of closure due to problems getting replacements for the
output valves.
It is an old story and the CND types love to use to mock the nuclear
deterrent.
I suspect the commanders' instruction say to try every possible system
to make contact with Northwood, then try to contact other UK defences
assets, then try contact friendly countries like the US, then try
commercial communications, then listen to news transmissions to see if
they can work out what has happened.
Radio 4 Long Wave will be mentioned because it is one of the few Long
Wave services still operating. Most have closed, are closing shortly
or running a limited service.
There are said to be a few spare valves and they are routines
refurbished and re-used.
The problem is that the three Long Wave transmitters are very
expensive to operate and have few listeners.
The energy companies are still using 198 kHz for the off-peak
electricity teleswitching, and are contributing to the continued
operation of the three transmitters. (Perhaps with some fantastic >capped-price deal for Arqiva/BBC !)
Anyway, I've been having discussions with my mother's energy supplier, >because they've been hounding her to get a Smart Meter (because that'll
be the way her off peak will also be switched) but after a lot pushing
I've finally made them realise she has a complex dual phase system, so
needs (according to them) a 3 Phase Smart meter/switch, which they
can't fit until (possibly) next summer.
They also tell me because they are so behind with swap outs, the
teleswitch service will remain in place for the time being. Dunno what >they'll do if those valves conk out before they've replaced everything,
(my guess, the teleswitches will just free run)
What a mess eh ?
On 04/12/2022 13:00, AnthonyL wrote:
Top posted:The Today programme mentioned in the article is on Radio 4, and the subs
If the BBC World service stops broadcasting for 24(?)hrs the nuclear
subs will have deduced the UK no longer exists and will attack the
nearest and last enemy.
https://www.businessinsider.com/bbc-radio-show-may-be-preventing-nuclear- >apocalypse-2018-8?r=US&IR=T
were reputed to listen for it on Long Wave. Nothing to do with the World >Service.
The main problem now is that the Radio 4 Long Wave transmitter is now
under notice of closure due to problems getting replacements for the
output valves.
On 04/12/2022 19:41, John Williamson wrote:
On 04/12/2022 19:02, Mark Carver wrote:She has three meters. Domestic 'day time', Off Peak Phase 1, Off Peak
On 04/12/2022 18:15, John Williamson wrote:The fail safe is that it stays on full price unless told otherwise.
On 04/12/2022 17:42, Mark Carver wrote:I can't believe that a 'fire and forget' system, with no return path
They also tell me because they are so behind with swap outs, theLast time I checked, the teleswitches remained on day rate unless they >>>> were receiving the correct (FM?) signal on 198 kHz.
teleswitch service will remain in place for the time being. Dunno
what
they'll do if those valves conk out before they've replaced
everything,
(my guess, the teleswitches will just free run)
would operate like that, without any fail safe ?
This protects the energy company...
I thought without a signal the switches just revert to freeLong wave is more reliable than the cellphone based system that early
running/default setting. I can't believe 100% of them have ever had a
reliable signal (particularly in the last couple of decades)
smart meters used. Teleswitching was originally set up so that the
times of off peak costing could be varied without having to visit
millions of homes every time. The code sent determines the rate
charged as well as (Independently, if needed) turning some appliances
on and off. As the signal is transmitted a number of times, and can
be sent a few times a second, there is protection against
interference, and the installer makes sure there is a good signal,
either by selecting one of two ferrite aerials or turning a single
one to get the best signal strength. The meter(s) show peak and off
peak readings.
My mother's teleswitch doesn't switch the metering, it only energiesHas she not got two meters, then?
the
off peak circuit
Phase 2. They are all just single phase, single rate devices. The
meters are upstream of the switching. When the off peak circuits
heating are not energised obviously the the meters do not progress
their readings. It would be impossible for them to do so. So, if as
you say the teleswitch remains permanently in 'on peak' mode, her
storage heating would remain energised 24/7. Maybe that will happen !
You're getting confused with the more recent Economy 7 system, where
the meters are switched between on peak, and off peak, and the whole
house (ring mains, lighting, and heating is charged at the lower rate overnight)
On 04/12/2022 19:02, Mark Carver wrote:
On 04/12/2022 18:15, John Williamson wrote:The fail safe is that it stays on full price unless told otherwise.
On 04/12/2022 17:42, Mark Carver wrote:I can't believe that a 'fire and forget' system, with no return path
They also tell me because they are so behind with swap outs, theLast time I checked, the teleswitches remained on day rate unless they
teleswitch service will remain in place for the time being. Dunno what >>>> they'll do if those valves conk out before they've replaced
everything,
(my guess, the teleswitches will just free run)
were receiving the correct (FM?) signal on 198 kHz.
would operate like that, without any fail safe ?
This protects the energy company...
I thought without a signal the switches just revert to freeLong wave is more reliable than the cellphone based system that early
running/default setting. I can't believe 100% of them have ever had a
reliable signal (particularly in the last couple of decades)
smart meters used. Teleswitching was originally set up so that the
times of off peak costing could be varied without having to visit
millions of homes every time. The code sent determines the rate
charged as well as (Independently, if needed) turning some appliances
on and off. As the signal is transmitted a number of times, and can be
sent a few times a second, there is protection against interference,
and the installer makes sure there is a good signal, either by
selecting one of two ferrite aerials or turning a single one to get
the best signal strength. The meter(s) show peak and off peak readings.
My mother's teleswitch doesn't switch the metering, it only energies theHas she not got two meters, then?
off peak circuit
Any yet the French still manage to keep Allouis the 162 kHz service on
the go!..
Its Auntie BBC who'd like to do away with the cost of radio 4 longwave
unless the min of defence wants to keep it going;!...
On 05/12/2022 08:11, Mark Carver wrote:
On 05/12/2022 08:08, Mark Carver wrote:
On 04/12/2022 19:41, John Williamson wrote:
I think you may mean "turned off 24/7", as they should only be turnedHas she not got two meters, then?She has three meters. Domestic 'day time', Off Peak Phase 1, Off Peak
Phase 2. They are all just single phase, single rate devices. The
meters are upstream of the switching. When the off peak circuits
heating are not energised obviously the the meters do not progress
their readings. It would be impossible for them to do so. So, if as
you say the teleswitch remains permanently in 'on peak' mode, her
storage heating would remain energised 24/7. Maybe that will happen !
on when rates are low.
That is, indeed an odd system....You're getting confused with the more recent Economy 7 system, where
the meters are switched between on peak, and off peak, and the whole
house (ring mains, lighting, and heating is charged at the lower rate
overnight)
Oh, and the Phase 2 Off Peak circuit is still controlled by a mechanical
timeswitch !
<https://uploads-eu-west-1.insided.com/ovo-en/attachment/92b45d1c-afea-4243-9de5-f510f658049a.jpg>
<https://uploads-eu-west-1.insided.com/ovo-en/attachment/2b4be835-6604-4090-ab7a-11ecfc02af29.jpg>
On 05/12/2022 08:08, Mark Carver wrote:I think you may mean "turned off 24/7", as they should only be turned on
On 04/12/2022 19:41, John Williamson wrote:
Has she not got two meters, then?She has three meters. Domestic 'day time', Off Peak Phase 1, Off Peak
Phase 2. They are all just single phase, single rate devices. The
meters are upstream of the switching. When the off peak circuits
heating are not energised obviously the the meters do not progress
their readings. It would be impossible for them to do so. So, if as
you say the teleswitch remains permanently in 'on peak' mode, her
storage heating would remain energised 24/7. Maybe that will happen !
You're getting confused with the more recent Economy 7 system, where
the meters are switched between on peak, and off peak, and the whole
house (ring mains, lighting, and heating is charged at the lower rate
overnight)
Oh, and the Phase 2 Off Peak circuit is still controlled by a mechanical timeswitch !
<https://uploads-eu-west-1.insided.com/ovo-en/attachment/92b45d1c-afea-4243-9de5-f510f658049a.jpg>
<https://uploads-eu-west-1.insided.com/ovo-en/attachment/2b4be835-6604-4090-ab7a-11ecfc02af29.jpg>
On 05/12/2022 09:32, John Williamson wrote:
That is, indeed an odd system....I don't think it was that odd in 1966 when it was installed ? A friend
of mine has a mother with a very similar set up too.
The electricity board came in the 90s to fit the teleswitch (replacing
one of the mech time-switches, and not both !)
At the same time, they moved Fusebox 14 from Phase 2 to Phase 1, thus
putting the storage heaters and ring main in the bedrooms on opposing
phases !
I only discovered this very recently, when I sketched out the arrangements.
Mum who is 91 is rather hoping the issue will outlive her !
On 05/12/2022 09:47, Mark Carver wrote:
On 05/12/2022 09:32, John Williamson wrote:
It may have been common when it was installed, but if you check, sheThat is, indeed an odd system....I don't think it was that odd in 1966 when it was installed ? A friend
of mine has a mother with a very similar set up too.
The electricity board came in the 90s to fit the teleswitch (replacing
one of the mech time-switches, and not both !)
At the same time, they moved Fusebox 14 from Phase 2 to Phase 1, thus
putting the storage heaters and ring main in the bedrooms on opposing
phases !
I only discovered this very recently, when I sketched out the
arrangements.
may well have a three phase feeder into the house, installed to help
balance the loads in the substation. One phase for the peak rate, the
other two for what would have been, by the standards of the day, quite
hefty loads. Just count the fuses where it comes in. Many houses of
the period were limited to 30 Amp per phase supplies, upgraded later
on by putting a bigger fuse in, so even an electric cooker made the
power supply marginal. Phases cycle along the street, so house one
would have peak rate power on Red, House two on Yellow, house three on
Blue, and so on. The common supply rating now is 100 Amps per dwelling.
The normal supply to a street in the UK is 3 phases, at 120 degrees to
each other giving 415 volts between phases, it's the Yanks that use a
pair of out of phase 120 volt supplies to let them use 240 volts for
heavy loads.
On 05/12/2022 01:28, tony sayer wrote:
Its Auntie BBC who'd like to do away with the cost of radio 4 longwave
unless the min of defence wants to keep it going;!...
I can't imagine why the MoD would want to fund it as no relevance to them.
On 04/12/2022 13:24, John Williamson wrote:
The Today programme mentioned in the article is on Radio 4, and the subs
were reputed to listen for it on Long Wave. Nothing to do with the World
Service.
The main problem now is that the Radio 4 Long Wave transmitter is now
under notice of closure due to problems getting replacements for the
output valves.
It is an old story and the CND types love to use to mock the nuclear >deterrent.
I suspect the commanders' instruction say to try every possible system
to make contact with Northwood,
In article <tmkb8c$3u2o6$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
thus
On 05/12/2022 01:28, tony sayer wrote:
Its Auntie BBC who'd like to do away with the cost of radio 4 longwave
unless the min of defence wants to keep it going;!...
I can't imagine why the MoD would want to fund it as no relevance to them.
Well if all else fails then The Archers or absence thereof might prevent buckets of "instant sunshine" being thrown around;!..
--
Tony Sayer
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.
Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
On Mon, 5 Dec 2022 10:10:54 +0000, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
The normal supply to a street in the UK is 3 phases, at 120 degrees to
each other giving 415 volts between phases, it's the Yanks that use a
pair of out of phase 120 volt supplies to let them use 240 volts for
heavy loads.
Some American houses are supplied with two phases instead of a centre
tapped 240V supply, so their high voltage devices (cookers etc) only
get 208V instead of 240V.
(Not sure where I learned that, but it might have been "Technology Connections" on YouTube).
On Sun, 4 Dec 2022 17:27:38 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 04/12/2022 13:24, John Williamson wrote:
The Today programme mentioned in the article is on Radio 4, and the subs >>> were reputed to listen for it on Long Wave. Nothing to do with the World >>> Service.
The main problem now is that the Radio 4 Long Wave transmitter is now
under notice of closure due to problems getting replacements for the
output valves.
It is an old story and the CND types love to use to mock the nuclear
deterrent.
I suspect the commanders' instruction say to try every possible system
to make contact with Northwood,
They can't give their position away, defeats their whole raison
d'etre.
The story I heard long ago was that subs would listen for the Radio 4
Long Wave transmitter as a last resort if their routine "all OK chaps" >signals from the UK had ceased. They can detect it worldwide so if Radio
4 was gone as well they could assume the UK really had been nuked and
let off their missiles.
The story I heard long ago was that subs would listen for the Radio 4
Long Wave transmitter as a last resort if their routine "all OK chaps" signals from the UK had ceased. They can detect it worldwide so if Radio
4 was gone as well they could assume the UK really had been nuked and
let off their missiles.
On 05/12/2022 21:39, MikeS wrote:
The story I heard long ago was that subs would listen for the Radio 4
Long Wave transmitter as a last resort if their routine "all OK chaps"
signals from the UK had ceased. They can detect it worldwide so if Radio
4 was gone as well they could assume the UK really had been nuked and
let off their missiles.
ITYM "Open their secret sealed orders from the current Prime Minister in
the safe inside the safe inside the Captain's cabin".
This also applied to Russian subs during the Cold War, and on at least
one occasion when the conditions had been met, it has been said that the
crew refused to launch the missiles.
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