On Tue 25/10/2022 12:48, Woody wrote:

On Tue 25/10/2022 12:15, Scott wrote:

Leaving aside questions about free speech and the right to protest -
which are probably for another group - would it not be possible to use
a type of microphone that cuts out background noise such as shouting
and music?

Its called a hypercardiod and has a very narrow acceptance angle in
front of it. Unfortunately if the speaker turns their head or rocks
about it can easily loose the sound field.

I don't know what RS was using when he spoke in Downing Street a bit
earlier but it was clear with very little background pickup. College
Green on the other hand had the chanting idiots on the footpath and, for
some reason, the media seem to think the Houses of Parliament must
always be in view so the sound source cannot be avoided.

Having said that, they probably have effects mikes as well which no-one
in the control room/van has any idea how to adjust!!

I note that some interviewees are now using the pea-sized mic head close
to the mouth on a thin skin-coloured wire hooked over the ear. They DO
work.

Just noticed on the picture of RS on the BBC News web site that he
appears to be using a hypercardiod. Well, I'll go to the foot of our stairs........

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On Tue 25/10/2022 12:15, Scott wrote:

Leaving aside questions about free speech and the right to protest -
which are probably for another group - would it not be possible to use
a type of microphone that cuts out background noise such as shouting
and music?

Its called a hypercardiod and has a very narrow acceptance angle in
front of it. Unfortunately if the speaker turns their head or rocks
about it can easily loose the sound field.

I don't know what RS was using when he spoke in Downing Street a bit
earlier but it was clear with very little background pickup. College
Green on the other hand had the chanting idiots on the footpath and, for
some reason, the media seem to think the Houses of Parliament must
always be in view so the sound source cannot be avoided.

Having said that, they probably have effects mikes as well which no-one
in the control room/van has any idea how to adjust!!

I note that some interviewees are now using the pea-sized mic head close
to the mouth on a thin skin-coloured wire hooked over the ear. They DO work.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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Leaving aside questions about free speech and the right to protest -
which are probably for another group - would it not be possible to use
a type of microphone that cuts out background noise such as shouting
and music?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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It must be difficult in Downing Street with relatively tall buildings on
all sided with hard brick walls.

I cannot understand the idiots who seem to spend all day making a noise
around Downing STreet then there is the professional one in the silly
top hat who is being paid to do it all day. I got the impression he
might have been playing music on portable PA system - surely they can
stop him? Sit there with your car radio on full volume with the windows
open and either council or police will stop you - cannot be classed as
"freedom of speech".

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They used to have one that you pressed your face against. Raymond Baxter
used to use on at the air shows he was commentating on.

Sadly these days they use a normal cardiod and attempt to filter with naff digital processing and it sounds like the is underwater most of the time, or
do nothing and you have to put upwith what you get often reflected from the walls of the building.
One might also ask why is it that audiences here in the UK are getting more like in the US where even at concerts the audience seem to make so much
noise you can't hear the artists.
Brian

--

--:
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message news:u6hflhllja1q951uapolv90n9p00b9mguu@4ax.com...

Leaving aside questions about free speech and the right to protest -
which are probably for another group - would it not be possible to use
a type of microphone that cuts out background noise such as shouting
and music?

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On Tue 25/10/2022 16:48, Brian Gaff wrote:

They used to have one that you pressed your face against. Raymond Baxter
used to use on at the air shows he was commentating on.

Sadly these days they use a normal cardiod and attempt to filter with naff digital processing and it sounds like the is underwater most of the time, or do nothing and you have to put upwith what you get often reflected from the walls of the building.
One might also ask why is it that audiences here in the UK are getting more like in the US where even at concerts the audience seem to make so much
noise you can't hear the artists.

You are talking if a lip mic Brian, and they are still very much in use
mainly I suspect for sports commentary. They are made by Coles (they of
4001 tweeter fame) and cost just short of a monkey (or £500 in old
money) plus VAT.

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Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

They used to have one that you pressed your face against. Raymond Baxter
used to use on at the air shows he was commentating on.

Sadly these days they use a normal cardiod and attempt to filter with naff digital processing and it sounds like the is underwater most of the time, or do nothing and you have to put upwith what you get often reflected from the walls of the building.
One might also ask why is it that audiences here in the UK are getting more like in the US where even at concerts the audience seem to make so much
noise you can't hear the artists.

I once had to give a broadcast talk as part of a series at an exhibition
in a square room, about 100ft x 100ft, that had bare flat reflective
walls with no scattering features and dreadful acoustics. It
incidentally had an immense amount of absorber in the ceiling, but that achieved nothing because the sound was never reflected into the ceiling.

The broadcaster had been working in that room for several weeks and at
every event they found the only way to deal with the situation was to
pass a close-speaking mic from hand-to-hand, This made group
discussions somewhat hesitant ...and tedious for performers and
audience alike.

I turned up with my own Fig-8 'pseudo-ribbon' mic which, as it didn't
actually contain a ribbon, could be mounted horizontally. I put it on a
high stand well above and just in front of my head, with one sensitive
side towards my face and the other facing the ceiling. The horizontal
plane of deadness include all four walls.

When I did a trial run, one of the technicians came flying out of the
control room and yelled at his colleagues "Hey! Come and listen to
this!" They all marvelled at what they were hearing (the sound quality,
not my delivery) but none of them appeared to have the slightest clue
how I had achieved it.

After I had given the talk, I offered to loan them the mic for the rest
of the exhibition but they preferred to revert to the hand-held system,
which at least they understood, so.I packed up the mic and took it home
with me. Ribbon mics can sometimes be wonderful at getting you out of a
hole, but you have to put in a bit of effort first, to make sure you
understand how they work.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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I notice some of these new upstart companies microphones can have several
polar diagrams and mix them, which can almost turn any room into a dead
room. Blue Yeti comes to mind. Who comes up with these names and what were
they on at the time?
Brian

--

--:
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
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Blind user, so no pictures please
Note this Signature is meaningless.!
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:1q0edx9.1vgs46vv3avvyN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...

Brian Gaff <brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:

They used to have one that you pressed your face against. Raymond Baxter
used to use on at the air shows he was commentating on.

Sadly these days they use a normal cardiod and attempt to filter with
naff
digital processing and it sounds like the is underwater most of the time,
or
do nothing and you have to put upwith what you get often reflected from
the
walls of the building.
One might also ask why is it that audiences here in the UK are getting
more
like in the US where even at concerts the audience seem to make so much
noise you can't hear the artists.

I once had to give a broadcast talk as part of a series at an exhibition
in a square room, about 100ft x 100ft, that had bare flat reflective
walls with no scattering features and dreadful acoustics. It
incidentally had an immense amount of absorber in the ceiling, but that achieved nothing because the sound was never reflected into the ceiling.

The broadcaster had been working in that room for several weeks and at
every event they found the only way to deal with the situation was to
pass a close-speaking mic from hand-to-hand, This made group
discussions somewhat hesitant ...and tedious for performers and
audience alike.

I turned up with my own Fig-8 'pseudo-ribbon' mic which, as it didn't actually contain a ribbon, could be mounted horizontally. I put it on a
high stand well above and just in front of my head, with one sensitive
side towards my face and the other facing the ceiling. The horizontal
plane of deadness include all four walls.

When I did a trial run, one of the technicians came flying out of the
control room and yelled at his colleagues "Hey! Come and listen to
this!" They all marvelled at what they were hearing (the sound quality,
not my delivery) but none of them appeared to have the slightest clue
how I had achieved it.

After I had given the talk, I offered to loan them the mic for the rest
of the exhibition but they preferred to revert to the hand-held system,
which at least they understood, so.I packed up the mic and took it home
with me. Ribbon mics can sometimes be wonderful at getting you out of a hole, but you have to put in a bit of effort first, to make sure you understand how they work.

--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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On 25/10/2022 20:48, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

I turned up with my own Fig-8 'pseudo-ribbon' mic which, as it didn't actually contain a ribbon, could be mounted horizontally. I put it on a
high stand well above and just in front of my head, with one sensitive
side towards my face and the other facing the ceiling. The horizontal
plane of deadness include all four walls.

Decent figure-of-eight mics are good for grand
pianos, too, positioned underneath close to the
sound board, and especially when they're also on
the sound system. Even better with a mat of thick
carpet felt to stand the mic on.

I have a low-output Reslo (i.e. the 30-Ohm
variant), which I like for that task.

For those in the know, I have tried it with and
without the felt pad, and it's best without.

In the modern era (when you no longer have to book
an "RSA" out of audio stores), I think the Reslos
are somewhat underrated. True there's not much top
end, but EQ sorts that quickly, and they are
really handy.

Of course you can use a decent cardioid (C451 or
similar) in the second frame hole on top, but the
separation is actually better with a figure of
eight. I've seen U87s used that way, but it's
actually not a very good fig-8 response, although
it does work. C414s are better.

The Lip Ribbon is an STC/Coles 4104. I don't get
on that well with mine - it's a bit lacking in
top, and low output, but it does do what it says
on the tin regarding background rejection though.

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SimonM <somewhere@large.in.the.world> wrote:

On 25/10/2022 20:48, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

I turned up with my own Fig-8 'pseudo-ribbon' mic which, as it didn't actually contain a ribbon, could be mounted horizontally. I put it on a high stand well above and just in front of my head, with one sensitive
side towards my face and the other facing the ceiling. The horizontal plane of deadness include all four walls.

Decent figure-of-eight mics are good for grand
pianos, too, positioned underneath close to the
sound board, and especially when they're also on
the sound system. Even better with a mat of thick
carpet felt to stand the mic on.

In that position, close to the sound source, one might think they would
suffer terribly from bass-tip-up. In fact they shouldn't, because the
effect is cause by a sperical wavefront and the bass wavefront from a
piano sounding board should be more like a plane wave.

Jumping to conclusions based on microphone-lore doesn't work for
ribbons, you have to really delve into the theory to get the best from
them.

I have a low-output Reslo (i.e. the 30-Ohm
variant), which I like for that task.

They were amazingly good microphones and sensibly priced. The only
fault was that some of the ribbons were made of Duralumin or a similar
alloy of aluminium and copper. The slightest inhomgenity set up
copper-rich and aluminium-rich areas that formed electrochemical
couples. In damp (or close breathy speech) conditions, these rapidly electrolised away the aluminium, leaving an open circuit ribbon that
looked perfetly good because a thin plastic coating held it all
together.

I used to re-ribbon them with foil from Kit-Kat wrappers.


--
~ Liz Tuddenham ~
(Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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