The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
On 19/09/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral.
That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little >>> unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of
countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage: Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
~~~~~
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage:
Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct".
On 19/09/2022 10:04, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. >>> That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little >>> unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of
countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage: Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
~~~~~
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct". Harold Wilson confirmed in 1974 that his government used it to mean 1,000 million and
that is how it has been used in official statistics, legislation etc.
You are free to hang on to the French invention but most others here -
and around the English speaking world - have moved on.
MB wrote:I think very few people cling to the long-scale definition of a billion
Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral.
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of
countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million"
On 19/09/2022 12:30, Andy Burns wrote:
Robin wrote:
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage: >>>> Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct".
The OED currently agrees with Liz
"originally and still commonly in Great Britain: A million millions"
however there is a side-note
"This entry has not yet been fully updated (first published 1887; most
recently modified version published online December 2021)."
The OED also has a 2nd entry:
"2. In U.S., and increasingly in Britain: A thousand millions."
and notes in the etymology:
"Since 1951 the U.S. value, a thousand millions, has been increasingly
used in Britain, especially in technical writing and, more recently, in journalism; but the older sense ‘a million millions’ is still common."
Robin wrote:
Liz Tuddenham wrote:
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage: >>> Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct".
The OED currently agrees with Liz
"originally and still commonly in Great Britain: A million millions"
however there is a side-note
"This entry has not yet been fully updated (first published 1887; most recently modified version published online December 2021)."
On 19/09/2022 10:04, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of
countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage:
Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
~~~~~
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct". Harold Wilson confirmed in 1974 that his government used it to mean 1,000 million and
that is how it has been used in official statistics, legislation etc.
You are free to hang on to the French invention but most others here -
and around the English speaking world - have moved on.
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
"Since 1951 the U.S. value, a thousand millions, has been increasingly
used in Britain, especially in technical writing and, more recently, in
journalism; but the older sense ‘a million millions’ is still common."
I don’t know of anyone who uses it in the sense of a million million. Common it is not.
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral.
That?Ts more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little
unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of
countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage: Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
On 19/09/2022 10:29, Robin wrote:
On 19/09/2022 10:04, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of >>>> countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage: >>> Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
~~~~~
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct". Harold Wilson
confirmed in 1974 that his government used it to mean 1,000 million
and that is how it has been used in official statistics, legislation
etc. You are free to hang on to the French invention but most others
here - and around the English speaking world - have moved on.
OK then what's a trillion? 10^12 or 10^18? A million (long) billion? Or
maybe 10^24 (a billion billion using the "long" (big) billion)?
On 19/09/2022 17:09, Max Demian wrote:
On 19/09/2022 10:29, Robin wrote:
On 19/09/2022 10:04, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of >>>>> countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage: >>>> Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
~~~~~
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct". Harold Wilson
confirmed in 1974 that his government used it to mean 1,000 million
and that is how it has been used in official statistics, legislation
etc. You are free to hang on to the French invention but most others
here - and around the English speaking world - have moved on.
OK then what's a trillion? 10^12 or 10^18? A million (long) billion? Or
maybe 10^24 (a billion billion using the "long" (big) billion)?
Much as with "billion", it's your choice. The OED still shows it as in >transition. But good luck finding anyone in government, the civil
service, the media etc who will read it as meaning anything other than
10^12. I can't recall seeing anyone serious* using it with any other
meaning since the 1970s. I'd be interested in any examples to the contrary.
*I don't count Marxist journalists or "I never could do sums" luvvies
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. That's more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little
unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
More to the point how can they actually tell? If most view off air then
there is no possible way to know. All I can say is that I was not one of them. No not because I disagree with it all, just that there seems no point when I cannot see the spectacle itself. The audio is pretty boring on its own.
More to the point how can they actually tell? If most view off air then
there is no possible way to know. All I can say is that I was not one of them. No not because I disagree with it all, just that there seems no point when I cannot see the spectacle itself. The audio is pretty boring on its own.
Brian
Counting on air viewers is done by surveying equipment installed in
selected households and using statistical analysis to get a final figure.
On 20/09/2022 10:12, John Williamson wrote:
Counting on air viewers is done by surveying equipment installed in
selected households and using statistical analysis to get a final figure.
How many countries have an equivalent system?
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 10:04, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. >> >>> That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little
unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of >> >> countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
More to the point how can they actually tell? If most view off air then
there is no possible way to know. All I can say is that I was not one of >them. No not because I disagree with it all, just that there seems no point >when I cannot see the spectacle itself. The audio is pretty boring on its >own.
Brian
JOOI which dictionary and - crucially - from when? I ask because we have Chambers 1972 edition which starts off similarly but continues "in U.S., often now in Britain, one thousand million".
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 10:04, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. >>>>> That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little
unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of >>>> countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage:
Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
~~~~~
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct". Harold Wilson
confirmed in 1974 that his government used it to mean 1,000 million and
that is how it has been used in official statistics, legislation etc.
You are free to hang on to the French invention but most others here -
and around the English speaking world - have moved on.
Interesting: my dictionary says "Billion" is a million million and only
means a thousand million in US and France. It gives "Milliard" as the English term for a thousand million (derived from French!).
On 20/09/2022 13:48, Robin wrote:
JOOI which dictionary and - crucially - from when? I ask because we have
Chambers 1972 edition which starts off similarly but continues "in U.S.,
often now in Britain, one thousand million".
I don't bother with American dictionaries.
OED
1. originally and still commonly in Great Britain: A million millions.
(= U.S. trillion.)
First reference 1690
2. In U.S., and increasingly in Britain: A thousand millions.
First reference 1834
Etymology: < French billion, purposely formed in 16th cent. to denote
the second power of a million adj. and n. (by substituting bi- comb.
form for the initial letters), trillion and quadrillion being similarly formed to denote its 3rd and 4th powers. The name appears not to have
been adopted in English before the end of the 17th cent.: see quot. from Locke. Subsequently the application of the word was changed by French arithmeticians, figures being divided in numeration into groups of
threes, instead of sixes, so that French billion, trillion, denoted not
the second and third powers of a million, but a thousand millions and a thousand thousand millions. In the 19th century, the U.S. adopted the
French convention, but Britain retained the original and etymological
use (to which France reverted in 1948).
Since 1951 the U.S. value, a thousand millions, has been increasingly
used in Britain, especially in technical writing and, more recently, in journalism; but the older sense ‘a million millions’ is still common.
JOOI which dictionary and - crucially - from when? I ask because we have Chambers 1972 edition which starts off similarly but continues "in U.S., often now in Britain, one thousand million".
On 20/09/2022 13:48, Robin wrote:
JOOI which dictionary and - crucially - from when? I ask because we have
Chambers 1972 edition which starts off similarly but continues "in U.S.,
often now in Britain, one thousand million".
I don't bother with American dictionaries.
OED
1. originally and still commonly in Great Britain: A million millions.
(= U.S. trillion.)
First reference 1690
2. In U.S., and increasingly in Britain: A thousand millions.
First reference 1834
Noted - though I am unclear of the relevance of that to my quoting
Chambers Twentieth Century Dictionary which came from a British
publisher and was for many years the official British Scrabble dictionary.
On 19/09/2022 12:26, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 10:04, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote: > The Times reckons a worldwide TV >>>>audience of 4 billion for the funeral. > That’s more >>>>than half the population of the planet. Seems a little > unlikely? Do >>>>foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of >>>> countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage: >>> Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
~~~~~
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct". Harold Wilson
confirmed in 1974 that his government used it to mean 1,000 million and
that is how it has been used in official statistics, legislation etc.
You are free to hang on to the French invention but most others here -
and around the English speaking world - have moved on.
Interesting: my dictionary says "Billion" is a million million and only means a thousand million in US and France. It gives "Milliard" as the English term for a thousand million (derived from French!).
JOOI which dictionary and - crucially - from when? I ask because we have Chambers 1972 edition which starts off similarly but continues "in U.S., often now in Britain, one thousand million".
On 20/09/2022 10:12, John Williamson wrote:
Counting on air viewers is done by surveying equipment installed in
selected households and using statistical analysis to get a final figure.
How many countries have an equivalent system?
On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 07:22:21 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
More to the point how can they actually tell? If most view off air then
there is no possible way to know. All I can say is that I was not one of
them. No not because I disagree with it all, just that there seems no point >> when I cannot see the spectacle itself. The audio is pretty boring on its
own.
Brian
Ages ago I was supplied with a monitor that was supposed to send a
signal that informed some long forgotten company what channel the TV
was on. Someone was supposed to collect it after a year but nevver
did. After moving house I binned it.
On 19/09/2022 10:04, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 19/09/2022 08:37, Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. >>>> That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little
unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
The Americans in particular are fond of totalling up the populations of
countries and claiming that figure watched an event.
They also use "Billion" when they mean "thousand million", so that
figure could be too large by a factor of 1,000 .
~~~~~
For the benefit of those who have forgotten the correct English usage:
Million = 10^6
Billion = Bi-million = 10^12
~~~~~
That does rather depend on your meaning of "correct". Harold Wilson >confirmed in 1974 that his government used it to mean 1,000 million and
that is how it has been used in official statistics, legislation etc.
You are free to hang on to the French invention but most others here -
and around the English speaking world - have moved on.
Off air (On line) viewers are the easiest to count, as they each have a unique ID on the server, which, as the BBC and others require you to log
in to view the stream, can be followed from one programme to the next.
Even those not logged in can be and are accurately counted by daemons on
the servers, which monitor the load in real time. They do, of course, also monitor the on-demand services, so they know how many times you watch it later.
Counting on air viewers is done by surveying equipment installed in
selected households and using statistical analysis to get a final figure.
The quick estimate in the UK used to be the size of the surge in power consumption as everyone turned the kettles on at the end of the programme, though as tea is becoming less popular, that is becoming less reliable.
On 20/09/2022 07:22, Brian Gaff wrote:
More to the point how can they actually tell? If most view off air then
there is no possible way to know. All I can say is that I was not one of
them. No not because I disagree with it all, just that there seems no
point
when I cannot see the spectacle itself. The audio is pretty boring on its
own.
Brian
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
On 20/09/2022 12:17, steve@justnn.com wrote:
Ages ago I was supplied with a monitor that was supposed to send a
signal that informed some long forgotten company what channel the TV
was on. Someone was supposed to collect it after a year but nevver
did. After moving house I binned it.
I'd suspect now, if ye have a smart TV it's probably sending ya viewing habits on all connected sources back to a database, that manufacturers
are sharing anonymised with broadcasters.
On my LG set, I had to scroll through a large set of Terms and
Conditions. They know my inside leg measurements...
On 20/09/2022 12:17, steve@justnn.com wrote:
On Tue, 20 Sep 2022 07:22:21 +0100, "Brian Gaff"
<brian1gaff@gmail.com> wrote:
More to the point how can they actually tell? If most view off air then
there is no possible way to know. All I can say is that I was not one of >>> them. No not because I disagree with it all, just that there seems no point >>> when I cannot see the spectacle itself. The audio is pretty boring on its >>> own.
Brian
Ages ago I was supplied with a monitor that was supposed to send a
signal that informed some long forgotten company what channel the TV
was on. Someone was supposed to collect it after a year but nevver
did. After moving house I binned it.
I'd suspect now, if ye have a smart TV it's probably sending ya viewing >habits on all connected sources back to a database, that manufacturers
are sharing anonymised with broadcasters.
On my LG set, I had to scroll through a large set of Terms and
Conditions. They know my inside leg measurements...
Scientists may say Billion and mean 10^^12,
OED
1. originally and still commonly in Great Britain: A million millions.
(= U.S. trillion.)
In article <tgcpt2$1i4dk$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
OED
1. originally and still commonly in Great Britain: A million millions.
(= U.S. trillion.)
The trouble with "still commonly" is that it was written decades ago.
When they get around to updating that entry, it will no longer say
that.
The few who still use it in that sense are fighting a long-lost battle
that only serves to confuse.
Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
In article <tgcpt2$1i4dk$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
OED
1. originally and still commonly in Great Britain: A million millions.
(= U.S. trillion.)
The trouble with "still commonly" is that it was written decades ago.
When they get around to updating that entry, it will no longer say
that.
The few who still use it in that sense are fighting a long-lost battle
that only serves to confuse.
Using correct terminology isn't the cause of the confusion, it is caused
by the previous misuse of terminology by those who were too lazy or
ignorant to check the correct meaning. There are also those who think
it is 'clever' to deliberately get it wrong or to use Americanisms in preference to plain English.
In the case of "Billion" I suspect the American useage has been adopted
by the English media and politicians a convenient way of making
something sound bigger than it is. (Similarly "astronomical",
"glacial", "literally".)
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little unlikely? Do foreign broadcasters have to pay for the pictures?
In the case of "Billion" I suspect the American useage has been adopted
by the English media and politicians a convenient way of making
something sound bigger than it is. (Similarly "astronomical",
"glacial", "literally".)
Roderick Stewart wrote:
My unfavourite emphasis word at the moment is "incredibly". Once
you're aware of it you'll soon realise how frequently it gets used to
describe things that are not incredible at all.
The one misused word that gets my goat is "I literally died ..."
My unfavourite emphasis word at the moment is "incredibly". Once
you're aware of it you'll soon realise how frequently it gets used to describe things that are not incredible at all.
Using correct terminology isn't the cause of the confusion, it is caused
by the previous misuse of terminology by those who were too lazy or
ignorant to check the correct meaning. There are also those who think
it is 'clever' to deliberately get it wrong or to use Americanisms in >preference to plain English.
I remember my headmaster drumming into us that you can never have more that two alternatives because "alternative" implies "one or the other". Any more, and they are "options" or "choices".
In article <tghg77$24756$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
I remember my headmaster drumming into us that you can never have more
that
two alternatives because "alternative" implies "one or the other".
He was, of course, quite wrong.
On 22/09/2022 12:16, NY wrote:
I remember my headmaster drumming into us that you can never have more
that
two alternatives because "alternative" implies "one or the other". Any
more,
and they are "options" or "choices".
I remember reading once that many of these pedantic rules date from the
19th Century and were made up by teachers/tutors to basically justify
their existence as English language teachers. :-)
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 11:29:36 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Roderick Stewart wrote:
My unfavourite emphasis word at the moment is "incredibly". Once
you're aware of it you'll soon realise how frequently it gets used to
describe things that are not incredible at all.
The one misused word that gets my goat is "I literally died ..."
Then there's "very unique", but I think we've dealt with that one
already, several times.
Roderick Stewart wrote:
My unfavourite emphasis word at the moment is "incredibly". Once
you're aware of it you'll soon realise how frequently it gets used to
describe things that are not incredible at all.
The one misused word that gets my goat is "I literally died ..."
I remember my headmaster drumming into us that you can never have more that >two alternatives because "alternative" implies "one or the other".
I'm annoyed when people say they have "died" when they mean they have suffered cardiac arrest. Sometimes they say they have "died" several
times. To my mind, dying is an irreversible process.
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but non-fatal electric shock"
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated with those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
The other misused word is "electrocution" which used to imply *fatal* electric shock (whether accidental or as an execution) but nowadays is
almost always used to describe a severe but non-fatal electric shock.
The English language really needs a single word that means "severe but non-fatal electric shock"; in the absence of this, I can understand "electrocution" being hijacked. Maybe we should re-define "electrocute"
and use "electrocuted to death" to describe the rarer, fatal version.
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but non-fatal >> electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated with those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message >news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated with
those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an even >higher EHT?
Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
[...]
A word was needed for 10^9, and it's too late
to introduce sesquillion.
The word already exists, it is "Milliard".
I once managed to blow the EHT fuse on a TV while poking round the
back. That came as a definite shock in both meanings of the term.
Also, before it happened, I didn't even know there were such things as
EHT fuses.
A word was needed for 10^9, and it's too late
to introduce sesquillion.
I once managed to blow the EHT fuse on a TV while poking round the back.
That came as a definite shock in both meanings of the term. Also, before
it happened, I didn't even know there were such things as EHT fuses.
"Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message >news:tghhtb$1kch$1@gioia.aioe.org...
I'm annoyed when people say they have "died" when they mean they have
suffered cardiac arrest. Sometimes they say they have "died" several
times. To my mind, dying is an irreversible process.
I have first-hand experience that a cardiac arrest is not necessarily fatal. >When I had a heart attack and my wife saved my life with CPR, she told me >that the ambulance crew reported that I had "no pulse" for about 90 minutes >while they gave me CPR and injected me with their full ambulance supply of >adrenaline before deciding to switch from "stay and play" to "scoop and
run". Luckily the A&E department managed to restart my heart so it ran >unaided. I presume "no pulse" meant "no *unaided* pulse": while CPR can >partially simulate a pulse (circulation of blood), no pulse (no circulation >of blood) is quickly fatal because everything gets starved of oxygen. I'm
not sure whether my heart was completely asystolic or whether it was >fibrillating (quivering without pumping).
The other misused word is "electrocution" which used to imply *fatal* >electric shock (whether accidental or as an execution) but nowadays is
almost always used to describe a severe but non-fatal electric shock. The >English language really needs a single word that means "severe but non-fatal >electric shock"; in the absence of this, I can understand "electrocution" >being hijacked. Maybe we should re-define "electrocute" and use
"electrocuted to death" to describe the rarer, fatal version.
On 22/09/2022 13:24, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:I once managed to blow the EHT fuse on a TV while poking round the back.
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated with
those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
That came as a definite shock in both meanings of the term. Also, before
it happened, I didn't even know there were such things as EHT fuses.
"Richard Tobin" <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote in message >news:tghgv4$26po$1@macpro.inf.ed.ac.uk...
In article <tghg77$24756$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
I remember my headmaster drumming into us that you can never have more >>>that
two alternatives because "alternative" implies "one or the other".
He was, of course, quite wrong.
Was he, given that "alter" is Latin for "other". Does that imply two objects >"the one and the other" or can you can more than one "other"? When I use >"alternative", it's one of those rules that I always remember - and then >often ignore ;-)
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an even >higher EHT?
On 22/09/2022 14:04, John Williamson wrote:
I once managed to blow the EHT fuse on a TV while poking round the back.
That came as a definite shock in both meanings of the term. Also, before
it happened, I didn't even know there were such things as EHT fuses.
You will see them on HV poles. I think usually three side by side and arranged to that is one blows, they drop down to disconnect all three
phases.
First time I noticed them was when I went out for a shutdown caused by
a large bird of prey deciding to perch on the 11KV line. You could
clearly see from below how the line had been disconnected, quite
simple but effective system.
The one misused word that gets my goat is "I literally died ..."
I'm annoyed when people say they have "died" when they mean they have >suffered cardiac arrest. Sometimes they say they have "died" several
times. To my mind, dying is an irreversible process.
On 22/09/2022 14:04, John Williamson wrote:
I once managed to blow the EHT fuse on a TV while poking round the
back. That came as a definite shock in both meanings of the term.
Also, before it happened, I didn't even know there were such things as
EHT fuses.
How does such a device actually work ?
Andy Burns wrote:
The one misused word that gets my goat is "I literally died ..."
I'm annoyed when people say they have "died" when they mean they have suffered
cardiac arrest. Sometimes they say they have "died" several times. To my mind,
dying is an irreversible process.
I remember my headmaster drumming into us that you can never have more >>>that
two alternatives because "alternative" implies "one or the other".
He was, of course, quite wrong.
Was he, given that "alter" is Latin for "other".
A word was needed for 10^9, and it's too late
to introduce sesquillion.
The word already exists, it is "Milliard".
By the way, the word "adultery" also derives from Latin "alter". Do
you think that you can therefore never commit adultery with more than
one person?
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:29:40 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated with >>> those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an even
higher EHT?
So far as I know CRT (requiring EHT) no longer exist.
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated with
those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an
even higher EHT?
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:29:40 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an even
higher EHT?
Not as far as I know, because if you go much above 25kV you start
generating x-rays, but colour TV projectors usually had three tubes
(except some of the Sony ones), so they will have needed an EHT supply
with three times the current available.
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated with those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an even higher EHT?
On 22/09/2022 13:20, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
[...]
A word was needed for 10^9, and it's too late
to introduce sesquillion.
The word already exists, it is "Milliard".
Which I have only ever seen "in the wild" in French.
On 22/09/2022 14:51, MB wrote:
On 22/09/2022 14:04, John Williamson wrote:
I once managed to blow the EHT fuse on a TV while poking round the back. >> That came as a definite shock in both meanings of the term. Also, before >> it happened, I didn't even know there were such things as EHT fuses.
You will see them on HV poles. I think usually three side by side and arranged to that is one blows, they drop down to disconnect all three phases.
First time I noticed them was when I went out for a shutdown caused by
a large bird of prey deciding to perch on the 11KV line. You could clearly see from below how the line had been disconnected, quite
simple but effective system.
Yes, but 25kV power line voltage has lots of current, 25kV for CRTs
doesn't, it's just a few milliamps
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 22/09/2022 13:20, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
The word already exists, it is "Milliard".Which I have only ever seen "in the wild" in French.
It's in the Concise Oxford Dictionary.
I remember my headmaster drumming into us that you can never have more that >two alternatives because "alternative" implies "one or the other".
In article <tghg77$24756$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote: >>"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
I remember my headmaster drumming into us that you can never have more that >>two alternatives because "alternative" implies "one or the other".
So it must really grate when you hear that advert for that plugin-smelly >thing that "Alternates between three complementary scents" ... :)
Alternate ... three?
Complementary? I thought that was also a "two parts" thing?
On 22/09/2022 15:02, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:29:40 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an
even
higher EHT?
Not as far as I know, because if you go much above 25kV you start
generating x-rays, but colour TV projectors usually had three tubes
(except some of the Sony ones), so they will have needed an EHT supply
with three times the current available.
Supposedly kids sitting on the carpet just in front of colour TVs were
liable to be zapped with x-rays.
On 22/09/2022 15:02, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:29:40 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an even >>> higher EHT?
Not as far as I know, because if you go much above 25kV you start
generating x-rays, but colour TV projectors usually had three tubes
(except some of the Sony ones), so they will have needed an EHT supply
with three times the current available.
Supposedly kids sitting on the carpet just in front of colour TVs were
liable to be zapped with x-rays.
In article <tghjv1$24hdr$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid>
scribeth thus
"Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message >>news:tghhtb$1kch$1@gioia.aioe.org...
I'm annoyed when people say they have "died" when they mean they have
suffered cardiac arrest. Sometimes they say they have "died" several
times. To my mind, dying is an irreversible process.
I have first-hand experience that a cardiac arrest is not necessarily >>fatal.
When I had a heart attack and my wife saved my life with CPR, she told me >>that the ambulance crew reported that I had "no pulse" for about 90
minutes
while they gave me CPR and injected me with their full ambulance supply of >>adrenaline before deciding to switch from "stay and play" to "scoop and >>run". Luckily the A&E department managed to restart my heart so it ran >>unaided. I presume "no pulse" meant "no *unaided* pulse": while CPR can >>partially simulate a pulse (circulation of blood), no pulse (no
circulation
of blood) is quickly fatal because everything gets starved of oxygen. I'm >>not sure whether my heart was completely asystolic or whether it was >>fibrillating (quivering without pumping).
Jesus F Christ you were bloody lucky the Mrs knew how to do that!
And she was there at the time:)
On 22/09/2022 15:50, Richard Tobin wrote:
By the way, the word "adultery" also derives from Latin "alter". Do
you think that you can therefore never commit adultery with more than
one person?
It's hard to do it with more than one at a time...
On a related matter, the word "live" seems to have several meanings in relation to broadcasting. I remember when it meant that what you were
seeing on the screen was actually happening while you were watching it
(not counting the two or three milliseconds it will have taken the
signal to reach your TV set), because a practical way of recording it
had not yet been invented. Even today, we sometimes see a little
ocrner caption saying "live", so the broadcasters themselves still
apparently recognise this meaning, though it can become less than
informative if the feed is recorded with the caption on it.
"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message news:pnqoihtl2m4869q7a8lmiirofjtoboh700@4ax.com...
On a related matter, the word "live" seems to have several meanings in
relation to broadcasting. I remember when it meant that what you were
seeing on the screen was actually happening while you were watching it
(not counting the two or three milliseconds it will have taken the
signal to reach your TV set), because a practical way of recording it
had not yet been invented. Even today, we sometimes see a little
ocrner caption saying "live", so the broadcasters themselves still
apparently recognise this meaning, though it can become less than
informative if the feed is recorded with the caption on it.
Yes, does "live" mean "as it happens apart from propagation delays" or
does it mean "recorded as live with no chance of editing out bits"? The latter meaning is becoming more common. And as you say, there's the chance
of a "live" caption from when it *was* live getting burned into a
recording that is shown later. For ongoing stories, it would be a good
idea if there was a separate clock that displayed time when something was recorded, in addition to any time-of-day clock.
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 13:29:40 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated with >>> those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an even >>higher EHT?
So far as I know CRT (requiring EHT) no longer exist.
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in message news:tgjvoi$2gg76$1@dont-email.me...
"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message
news:pnqoihtl2m4869q7a8lmiirofjtoboh700@4ax.com...
On a related matter, the word "live" seems to have several meanings in
relation to broadcasting. I remember when it meant that what you were
seeing on the screen was actually happening while you were watching it
(not counting the two or three milliseconds it will have taken the
signal to reach your TV set), because a practical way of recording it
had not yet been invented. Even today, we sometimes see a little
ocrner caption saying "live", so the broadcasters themselves still
apparently recognise this meaning, though it can become less than
informative if the feed is recorded with the caption on it.
Yes, does "live" mean "as it happens apart from propagation delays"
or does it mean "recorded as live with no chance of editing out
bits"? The latter meaning is becoming more common. And as you say,
there's the chance of a "live" caption from when it *was* live
getting burned into a recording that is shown later. For ongoing
stories, it would be a good idea if there was a separate clock that
displayed time when something was recorded, in addition to any
time-of-day clock.
I'd probably also allow "live" to include a fixed profanity or
security delay eg the way the "live" broadcast of the Iranian Embassy
Siege in London was broadcast with a fixed n-minute delay so the
terrorists could only see what had already happened rather than was
the SAS were about to do to them.
I've always wondered what technology was available in 1980 that could
create a fixed delay of several minutes to a video feed that was
ongoing and therefore they couldn't just take a recently-recorded tape
off one VCR and play it soon after on another one. I presume 1980 was
too early for digital production with writing to and reading from an
HDD. And a slow-motion recorder (which recorded in analogue to what
was effectively a large floppy disk) could only delay by a few tens of seconds, I believe.
So are there still projectors being used which use EHT - is that still common, current technology? Are there more of those still in existence than CRT TVs? I'd have thought that all projectors nowadays use a bright light shining through what is effectively an array of coloured filters (eg LCD).
I've seen some truly *horrible* digital projectors (eg in the small cinema
on a cruise liner) which seem to display the three colours in rapid
sequence
rather than simultaneously, which causes repulsive coloured fringing and
lag
when there is movement - especially really gross movement like a camera panning. I've also seen some fantastically good projectors in commercial cinemas.
Cheap and cheerful. They used a single monochrome LCD, refreshing at
three times the frame rate, and a tricoloured rotating filter in a
single optical system. As tricolour LCD displays improved, they became
less common.
The alternative at the time they were sold was three LCD monochrome
displays, each with a filter and their own optical system, with the
three images combined by prisms and mirrors in another optical system.
Great quality, but my wallet is cringing at just the thought of the price.
I was bloody lucky...
On 23/09/2022 10:48, NY wrote:
I was bloody lucky...
Extraordinary story NY. Many thanks for sharing it.
On 23/09/2022 11:19, John Williamson wrote:
Cheap and cheerful. They used a single monochrome LCD, refreshing atSorry "Refreshing individual colour channels at three times the frame
three times the frame rate, and a tricoloured rotating filter in a
single optical system. As tricolour LCD displays improved, they became
less common.
The alternative at the time they were sold was three LCD monochrome
displays, each with a filter and their own optical system, with the
three images combined by prisms and mirrors in another optical system.
Great quality, but my wallet is cringing at just the thought of the
price.
rate"
Richard Tobin <richard@cogsci.ed.ac.uk> wrote:
[...]
A word was needed for 10^9, and it's too late
to introduce sesquillion.
The word already exists, it is "Milliard".
There was no discharge resistor built into the EHT generator unit, so
you had to remember to discharge the tube before handling it. Even if
you rememebered to discharge it, the glass had a 'dielectric memory'
which would build up a charge again after a few minutes. For safety,
the EHT connector was at the bottom of a glass cone on the side of the
tube, but the residual voltage was sometimes enough to jump from that to
a careless finger.
"John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message >news:jp5giaFchvnU1@mid.individual.net...
On 23/09/2022 11:19, John Williamson wrote:
Cheap and cheerful. They used a single monochrome LCD, refreshing atSorry "Refreshing individual colour channels at three times the frame
three times the frame rate, and a tricoloured rotating filter in a
single optical system. As tricolour LCD displays improved, they became
less common.
The alternative at the time they were sold was three LCD monochrome
displays, each with a filter and their own optical system, with the
three images combined by prisms and mirrors in another optical system.
Great quality, but my wallet is cringing at just the thought of the
price.
rate"
I gather that pre-NTSC colour systems were being worked on which were >colour-sequential like this. I wonder what viewers' reactions would have
been to coloured fringes on the leading and trailing edges of movement... >Bloody miracle that it's in colour, but shame about the fringes.
By the way, the word "adultery" also derives from Latin "alter". Do
you think that you can therefore never commit adultery with more than
one person?
By the way, the word "adultery" also derives from Latin "alter". Do
you think that you can therefore never commit adultery with more than
one person?
On 23/09/2022 10:48, NY wrote:
I was bloody lucky...
Extraordinary story NY. Many thanks for sharing it.
On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 10:13:54 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote:
Early professional colour picture monitors, and maybe some domesticIt was widely believed by TV repairmen in the 70s that working on colour sets would mean your wife would only give birth the females.
TVs, used a line transformer that produced a 25kV pulse which was
rectified by a diode valve, unlike later ones that used a smaller
pulse (usually about 8kV) and a multiplier made from semiconductor
diodes and capacitors. X-radiation from the front of the set would
have been negligible.
Rod.
Early professional colour picture monitors, and maybe some domesticIt was widely believed by TV repairmen in the 70s that working on colour sets would mean your wife would only give birth the females.
TVs, used a line transformer that produced a 25kV pulse which was
rectified by a diode valve, unlike later ones that used a smaller
pulse (usually about 8kV) and a multiplier made from semiconductor
diodes and capacitors. X-radiation from the front of the set would
have been negligible.
Rod.
"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
Jesus F Christ you were bloody lucky the Mrs knew how to do that!
And she was there at the time:)
"John Williamson" <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote in messageMy 1956 Children's encylopaedia had a picture of a colour TV set with three colour gells rotating in front of the crt.
I gather that pre-NTSC colour systems were being worked on which were colour-sequential like this.
On Thu, 22 Sep 2022 17:38:28 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
There was no discharge resistor built into the EHT generator unit, so
you had to remember to discharge the tube before handling it. Even if
you rememebered to discharge it, the glass had a 'dielectric memory'
which would build up a charge again after a few minutes. For safety,
the EHT connector was at the bottom of a glass cone on the side of the >>tube, but the residual voltage was sometimes enough to jump from that to
a careless finger.
I worked in a TV factory once. The CRT's were often still charged up a
bit when delivered from Mullard in boxes of six tubes. An accident
that occasionally happened was when an assembly work took one CRT out
of box, got a shock and dropped it on another. Two loud bangs and a
scream.
I'm fine now: my arms ache if I hold them above my head for more than a >minute or so (eg changing a light bulb) and my perception of distance isn't >perfect (fortunately I err on the side of safety and think I need to leave >*more* room from the car in front etc). But I can cycle long distances - it >was a standing joke that my wife needed to buy an electrically-assisted bike >to keep up with me, even after the heart attack - and I've just been digging >out a lot of soil from the bed of our pond to pile it onto an island we're >making.
I was bloody lucky...
This was before we got married and I was living several hours drive away and >we met at weekends. If the heart attack had happened while I was driving >home, I doubt whether I'd have had time to steer safely onto the hard >shoulder, let alone had someone to give me CPR.
(*) Ironically I drink more now, because I was recommended to have a glass
of wine or a pint of beer 5 days out of every 7 because it is actually >beneficial. Bitter (literally!) medicine, but I struggle manfully to take it >;-)
On 23/09/2022 19:25, wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote:
On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 10:13:54 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote:Thought that was welders?
Early professional colour picture monitors, and maybe some domesticIt was widely believed by TV repairmen in the 70s that working on colour
TVs, used a line transformer that produced a 25kV pulse which was
rectified by a diode valve, unlike later ones that used a smaller
pulse (usually about 8kV) and a multiplier made from semiconductor
diodes and capacitors. X-radiation from the front of the set would
have been negligible.
Rod.
sets would mean your wife would only give birth the females.
On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 10:48:54 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"tony sayer" <to...@bancom.co.uk> wrote in message
Jesus F Christ you were bloody lucky the Mrs knew how to do that!
And she was there at the time:)
And decided that she didn't want you to die.
Bit reduced>
Bloody hell thats amazing but only 48??
I'm fine now: my arms ache if I hold them above my head for more than a >>minute or so (eg changing a light bulb) and my perception of distance
isn't
perfect (fortunately I err on the side of safety and think I need to leave >>*more* room from the car in front etc). But I can cycle long distances -
it
was a standing joke that my wife needed to buy an electrically-assisted >>bike
to keep up with me, even after the heart attack - and I've just been >>digging
out a lot of soil from the bed of our pond to pile it onto an island we're >>making.
I was bloody lucky...
This was before we got married and I was living several hours drive away >>and
we met at weekends. If the heart attack had happened while I was driving >>home, I doubt whether I'd have had time to steer safely onto the hard >>shoulder, let alone had someone to give me CPR.
(*) Ironically I drink more now, because I was recommended to have a glass >>of wine or a pint of beer 5 days out of every 7 because it is actually >>beneficial. Bitter (literally!) medicine, but I struggle manfully to take >>it
;-)
Was there an underlying cause at all can you say?..
On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 11:27:22 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
On 23/09/2022 10:48, NY wrote:
I was bloody lucky...
Extraordinary story NY. Many thanks for sharing it.
I have a similar story about my late wife's cardiac arrests and subsequent events. (She survived.) Years later I finally got a PTSD diagnosis. I'm
still quite badly affected.
My dad's father had a very slow
heartbeat in his early 70s (I remember his lips were blue/grey) and he had
to have a pacemaker fitted which revolutionised his life (he looked about 10 years younger) but sadly he died of a heart attack a year later.
Anyway, if you work on a colour set, she'll give birth to coloured babies.That's just a story spread about to fool TV repairmen. In fact, if she gave birth to a coloured baby it meant she'd been shagging a black man.
"wrights...@aol.com" <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote in message news:cd523c0b-6d8d-426e...@googlegroups.com...
On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 11:27:22 UTC+1, Mark Carver wrote:
On 23/09/2022 10:48, NY wrote:
I was bloody lucky...
Extraordinary story NY. Many thanks for sharing it.
I have a similar story about my late wife's cardiac arrests and subsequent events. (She survived.) Years later I finally got a PTSD diagnosis. I'm still quite badly affected.I can imagine. Experiences like that leave their mark.
On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 11:53:43 UTC+1, NY wrote:
"John Williamson" <johnwil...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
I gather that pre-NTSC colour systems were being worked on which wereMy 1956 Children's encylopaedia had a picture of a colour TV set with three colour gells rotating in front of the crt.
colour-sequential like this.
Bill
On Friday, 23 September 2022 at 10:13:54 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote:
Early professional colour picture monitors, and maybe some domesticIt was widely believed by TV repairmen in the 70s that working on colour sets would mean your wife would only give birth the females.
TVs, used a line transformer that produced a 25kV pulse which was
rectified by a diode valve, unlike later ones that used a smaller
pulse (usually about 8kV) and a multiplier made from semiconductor
diodes and capacitors. X-radiation from the front of the set would
have been negligible.
Rod.
Bill
That's just a story spread about to fool TV repairmen. In fact, if she gave birth to a coloured baby it meant she'd been shagging a black man.
On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT), "wrights...@aol.com" <wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
The "Ladybird Book of Television" that my kids had in the 1970s showed
a picture of an iconoscope camera.
Rod.Is that the one shown on pages 9 and 13?
On 22/09/2022 13:29, NY wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated
with
those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an
even higher EHT?
I think they had 20kV when b/w CRTs had 5kV. (I think colour CRTs
always had 20kV or so.)
On 22/09/2022 17:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/09/2022 13:29, NY wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated
with
those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an
even higher EHT?
I think they had 20kV when b/w CRTs had 5kV. (I think colour CRTs
always had 20kV or so.)
I thought it was a kv per inch (more of less) regardless whether colour
or monochrome ?
On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 08:56:27 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT), "wrights...@aol.com"
<wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
The "Ladybird Book of Television" that my kids had in the 1970s showed
a picture of an iconoscope camera.
Is that the one shown on pages 9 and 13?
Rod.
Bill
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 22/09/2022 17:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/09/2022 13:29, NY wrote:I thought it was a kv per inch (more of less) regardless whether colour
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid...
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means "severe but
non-fatal
electric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often assocoated
with
those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it need an
even higher EHT?
I think they had 20kV when b/w CRTs had 5kV. (I think colour CRTs
always had 20kV or so.)
or monochrome ?
It was about that for direct-view tubes, but far more for the projection >types. The commonest domestic projection tube (6 cm diameter) ran at
25kV and the large-screen tube ran at 50kV.
When we use to work on Klystron based TV transmitters, with 15 kV on the collector your best mate was a decent earthing stick:)..
On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 08:56:27 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT), "wrights...@aol.com"Is that the one shown on pages 9 and 13?
<wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:
The "Ladybird Book of Television" that my kids had in the 1970s showed
a picture of an iconoscope camera.
Rod.
I heard Arqiva had to get some engineers out of retirement at DSO to
safely decommission the analogue transmitters, before sending the
'scrappies' in ?
On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 20:29:47 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
message >> >>On 22/09/2022 17:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/09/2022 13:29, NY wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid... >>
"severe but >> >>>> non-fatalNY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote: >> >>>
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means
assocoated >> >>> withelectric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often
need an >> >> even higher EHT?those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it
CRTs >> > always had 20kV or so.)
I think they had 20kV when b/w CRTs had 5kV. (I think colour
colour >> or monochrome ?I thought it was a kv per inch (more of less) regardless whether
It was about that for direct-view tubes, but far more for the
projection types. The commonest domestic projection tube (6 cm
diameter) ran at 25kV and the large-screen tube ran at 50kV.
I'm glad I never had to maintain one of those. I still have an old EHT
meter for TV repair work - a little grey metal box with the meter
movement itself mounted on a front panel sloping at 45 degrees, and a
six inch long paxolin tube the thickness of a broom handle (containing
a string of resistors) mounted vertically on top, with a rounded metal
cap at the top of that for attaching the test lead to the CRT. The
scale only goes up to 30kV.
Rod.
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 20:29:47 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:message >> >>
On 22/09/2022 17:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/09/2022 13:29, NY wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid... >>
"severe but >> >>>> non-fatalNY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote: >> >>>
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means
assocoated >> >>> withelectric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often
need an >> >> even higher EHT?those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it
CRTs >> > always had 20kV or so.)
I think they had 20kV when b/w CRTs had 5kV. (I think colour
colour >> or monochrome ?I thought it was a kv per inch (more of less) regardless whether
It was about that for direct-view tubes, but far more for the
projection types. The commonest domestic projection tube (6 cm
diameter) ran at 25kV and the large-screen tube ran at 50kV.
I'm glad I never had to maintain one of those. I still have an old EHT
meter for TV repair work - a little grey metal box with the meter
movement itself mounted on a front panel sloping at 45 degrees, and a
six inch long paxolin tube the thickness of a broom handle (containing
a string of resistors) mounted vertically on top, with a rounded metal
cap at the top of that for attaching the test lead to the CRT. The
scale only goes up to 30kV.
Rod.
My father, who used to repair TVs, had an EHT meter this was a clear
plastic tube that had a spark gap in it. By turning one end you brought
the balls of the gap closer together until it sparked. You read the
voltage off a scale that was linked to the moving part.
On 24/09/2022 15:08, wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote:
On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 08:56:27 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote: >>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT), "wrights...@aol.com"No, that's an EMI-201 monochrome camera, the mainstay of 1960s studio
<wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:Is that the one shown on pages 9 and 13?
The "Ladybird Book of Television" that my kids had in the 1970s showed
a picture of an iconoscope camera.
Rod.
cameras before colour came along
https://www.tvcameramuseum.org/emi/201/201p1.htm
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >news:jpdlivFklpqU1@mid.individual.net...
On 24/09/2022 15:08, wrightsaerials@aol.com wrote:
On Saturday, 24 September 2022 at 08:56:27 UTC+1, Roderick Stewart wrote: >>>> On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 11:40:43 -0700 (PDT), "wrights...@aol.com"No, that's an EMI-201 monochrome camera, the mainstay of 1960s studio
<wrights...@f2s.com> wrote:Is that the one shown on pages 9 and 13?
The "Ladybird Book of Television" that my kids had in the 1970s showed >>>> a picture of an iconoscope camera.
Rod.
cameras before colour came along
https://www.tvcameramuseum.org/emi/201/201p1.htm
I'm intrigued by the comment "This camera, serial number 215, was used in
the EMI type 404 telecine installation." Did they sometime use conventional >cameras as the sensor of a telecine, as opposed to flying spot or rotating >prism or 1-by-n pixel solid state sensor?
Seems odd that a camera with a 4-lens turret was destined to spend its life >pointing at a piece of film, where a close-up lens was needed.
On 27 Sep 2022 07:57:46 GMT, "Ashley Booth" <removetab@snglinks.com>
wrote:
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 20:29:47 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:message >> >>
On 22/09/2022 17:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/09/2022 13:29, NY wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid... >>
"severe but >> >>>> non-fatalNY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote: >> >>>
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means
assocoated >> >>> withelectric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often
need an >> >> even higher EHT?those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it
CRTs >> > always had 20kV or so.)
I think they had 20kV when b/w CRTs had 5kV. (I think colour
colour >> or monochrome ?I thought it was a kv per inch (more of less) regardless whether
It was about that for direct-view tubes, but far more for the
projection types. The commonest domestic projection tube (6 cm
diameter) ran at 25kV and the large-screen tube ran at 50kV.
I'm glad I never had to maintain one of those. I still have an old EHT
meter for TV repair work - a little grey metal box with the meter
movement itself mounted on a front panel sloping at 45 degrees, and a
six inch long paxolin tube the thickness of a broom handle (containing
a string of resistors) mounted vertically on top, with a rounded metal
cap at the top of that for attaching the test lead to the CRT. The
scale only goes up to 30kV.
Rod.
My father, who used to repair TVs, had an EHT meter this was a clear >plastic tube that had a spark gap in it. By turning one end you brought
the balls of the gap closer together until it sparked. You read the
voltage off a scale that was linked to the moving part.
I remember the adverts for those things in Wireless World, but have
never seen a real one in use. It seems a rather hit and miss method.
Another gadget that I have seen, and used, is a range extending
resistor probe for the Avometer Model 8. At least you'd get a reading
on a dial.
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 27 Sep 2022 07:57:46 GMT, "Ashley Booth" <removetab@snglinks.com>
wrote:
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 20:29:47 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:message >> >>
On 22/09/2022 17:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/09/2022 13:29, NY wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid... >>
"severe but >> >>>> non-fatalNY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote: >> >>>
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means
assocoated >> >>> withelectric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often
need an >> >> even higher EHT?those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection
television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it
CRTs >> > always had 20kV or so.)
I think they had 20kV when b/w CRTs had 5kV. (I think colour
colour >> or monochrome ?I thought it was a kv per inch (more of less) regardless whether
It was about that for direct-view tubes, but far more for the
projection types. The commonest domestic projection tube (6 cm
diameter) ran at 25kV and the large-screen tube ran at 50kV.
I'm glad I never had to maintain one of those. I still have an old EHT
meter for TV repair work - a little grey metal box with the meter
movement itself mounted on a front panel sloping at 45 degrees, and a
six inch long paxolin tube the thickness of a broom handle (containing
a string of resistors) mounted vertically on top, with a rounded metal
cap at the top of that for attaching the test lead to the CRT. The
scale only goes up to 30kV.
Rod.
My father, who used to repair TVs, had an EHT meter this was a clear
plastic tube that had a spark gap in it. By turning one end you brought
the balls of the gap closer together until it sparked. You read the
voltage off a scale that was linked to the moving part.
I remember the adverts for those things in Wireless World, but have
never seen a real one in use. It seems a rather hit and miss method.
Another gadget that I have seen, and used, is a range extending
resistor probe for the Avometer Model 8. At least you'd get a reading
on a dial.
...and you could use it as a discharge resistor.
...and you could use it as a discharge resistor....but a screwdriver was much more fun. :-)
On Tue, 27 Sep 2022 11:50:35 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On 27 Sep 2022 07:57:46 GMT, "Ashley Booth" <removetab@snglinks.com>
wrote:
Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Sat, 24 Sep 2022 20:29:47 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:message >> >>
On 22/09/2022 17:17, Max Demian wrote:
On 22/09/2022 13:29, NY wrote:
"Liz Tuddenham" <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote in
news:1pyoqh0.3fbfkn1mqo98gN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid... >>
"severe but >> >>>> non-fatalNY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote: >> >>>
[...]
...The
English language really needs a single word that means
assocoated >> >>> withelectric shock"
There are several very descriptive words which are often
need an >> >> even higher EHT?those circumstances - ask anyone who has worked on a projection >> >> >> >>> television.
Was a projection TV more dangerous than a normal one? Did it
CRTs >> > always had 20kV or so.)
I think they had 20kV when b/w CRTs had 5kV. (I think colour
colour >> or monochrome ?I thought it was a kv per inch (more of less) regardless whether
It was about that for direct-view tubes, but far more for the
projection types. The commonest domestic projection tube (6 cm
diameter) ran at 25kV and the large-screen tube ran at 50kV.
I'm glad I never had to maintain one of those. I still have an old EHT >> >> meter for TV repair work - a little grey metal box with the meter
movement itself mounted on a front panel sloping at 45 degrees, and a >> >> six inch long paxolin tube the thickness of a broom handle (containing >> >> a string of resistors) mounted vertically on top, with a rounded metal >> >> cap at the top of that for attaching the test lead to the CRT. The
scale only goes up to 30kV.
Rod.
My father, who used to repair TVs, had an EHT meter this was a clear
plastic tube that had a spark gap in it. By turning one end you brought >> >the balls of the gap closer together until it sparked. You read the
voltage off a scale that was linked to the moving part.
I remember the adverts for those things in Wireless World, but have
never seen a real one in use. It seems a rather hit and miss method.
Another gadget that I have seen, and used, is a range extending
resistor probe for the Avometer Model 8. At least you'd get a reading
on a dial.
...and you could use it as a discharge resistor.
...but a screwdriver was much more fun. :-)
One of my grandfather's party tricks was to use his wooden handled screwdriver (from his damp shed, (made entirely of asbestos) ) and draw
an arc off of the top of the EHT rectifier valve, (in his rising damp
soaked 1930s Jerry-Built house)
On 28/09/2022 09:58, Mark Carver wrote:
One of my grandfather's party tricks was to use his wooden handled screwdriver (from his damp shed, (made entirely of asbestos) ) and
draw an arc off of the top of the EHT rectifier valve, (in his
rising damp soaked 1930s Jerry-Built house)
It was much more fun watching someone draw an arc off a person in the Criggion coil chamber.
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral. That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little unlikely?
Tweed wrote:
The Times reckons a worldwide TV audience of 4 billion for the funeral.
That’s more than half the population of the planet. Seems a little
unlikely?
More or less did a de-bunking on the four billion number today, they
didn't want to stick an actual number on it, but I think at one point
they said less than a billion.
Been there but never saw any sparks. 🙁
More or less did a de-bunking on the four billion number today, they didn't want
to stick an actual number on it, but I think at one point they said less than a
billion.
Good for one for "More or Less" to look into.
They did look into it today, as suspected the four billion figure was an estimate.
They quoted figures for a few countries on the programme and there is no
way it could ever reach four billion eeven if you quote "Reach" which
tends to exaggerate the audience figure.
More or Less: Behind the Stats
Falling pound, the Queen’s funeral and is 0.5 on the Richter scale a big number?
On 28/09/2022 15:07, Ashley Booth wrote:
Been there but never saw any sparks. 🙁
Seemed to be the standard party trick to show visitors. Drawing an
arc of someone's nose, holding a five foot fluorescent tube in the
hand whilst it lit up quite bright and other tricks.
I spent hours setting up the dynamic conversion on some sets.
On Fri, 23 Sep 2022 12:30:54 +0100, Stephen Wolstenholme
<steve@easynn.com> wrote:
I spent hours setting up the dynamic conversion on some sets.
What were you converting?
I gather that pre-NTSC colour systems were being worked on which were colour-sequential like this. I wonder what viewers' reactions would have
been to coloured fringes on the leading and trailing edges of movement... Bloody miracle that it's in colour, but shame about the fringes.
The word already exists, it is "Milliard".
Not sure where BBC World is available in HD ?
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:tgah7t$17plr$1@dont-email.me:
I think that ship sailed a long time ago, and "billion" is now taken
*worldwide* to mean 10^9 rather than 10^12.
If by "worldwide" you mean the English speaking world, probably so.
In other languages, no.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales#Long_scale_users
It occasionally causes translation errors in the media.
liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in news:1pyoqb1.10ckuvb14bhoweN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid:
The word already exists, it is "Milliard".
Is that word still used at all in the UK?
"NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in news:tgk37l$2gpeo$1@dont-email.me:
I gather that pre-NTSC colour systems were being worked on which
were colour-sequential like this. I wonder what viewers' reactions
would have been to coloured fringes on the leading and trailing
edges of movement... Bloody miracle that it's in colour, but shame
about the fringes.
Some of the later moon landings were shot with suche a camera, to be converted to NTSC/PAL on earth. I don't think anyone complained at
the time.
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