• The Royal thing

    From John Williamson@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 13 17:36:51 2022
    I've been watching the coverage of the Edinburgh bit, and the crew
    aren't exactly covering themselves in glory. wobbly cameras, and
    breaking up of the helicopter coverage again.

    I hope the London end have solved the problems.

    Does anyone know whether the radio linked cameras are making an on board recording as well, or are we going to be suffering digital breakup on
    all the next 50 years' worth of repeats?
    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave W@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 13 20:56:04 2022
    T24gVHVlLCAxMyBTZXAgMjAyMiAxNzozNjo1MSArMDEwMCwgSm9obiBXaWxsaWFtc29uDQo8am9o bndpbGxpYW1zb25AYnRpbnRlcm5ldC5jb20+IHdyb3RlOg0KDQo+SSd2ZSBiZWVuIHdhdGNoaW5n IHRoZSBjb3ZlcmFnZSBvZiB0aGUgRWRpbmJ1cmdoIGJpdCwgYW5kIHRoZSBjcmV3IA0KPmFyZW4n dCBleGFjdGx5IGNvdmVyaW5nIHRoZW1zZWx2ZXMgaW4gZ2xvcnkuIHdvYmJseSBjYW1lcmFzLCBh bmQgDQo+YnJlYWtpbmcgdXAgb2YgdGhlIGhlbGljb3B0ZXIgY292ZXJhZ2UgYWdhaW4uDQo+DQo+ SSBob3BlIHRoZSBMb25kb24gZW5kIGhhdmUgc29sdmVkIHRoZSBwcm9ibGVtcy4NCj4NCj5Eb2Vz IGFueW9uZSBrbm93IHdoZXRoZXIgdGhlIHJhZGlvIGxpbmtlZCBjYW1lcmFzIGFyZSBtYWtpbmcg YW4gb24gYm9hcmQgDQo+cmVjb3JkaW5nIGFzIHdlbGwsIG9yIGFyZSB3ZSBnb2luZyB0byBiZSBz dWZmZXJpbmcgZGlnaXRhbCBicmVha3VwIG9uIA0KPmFsbCB0aGUgbmV4dCA1MCB5ZWFycycgd29y dGggb2YgcmVwZWF0cz8NCg0KSSd2ZSBqdXN0IHdhdGNoZWQgdGhlIFRWIGNvdmVyYWdlIG9mIHRo ZSBwbGFuZSB0YWtpbmcgb2ZmIGZyb20NCkVkaW5idXJnaCB0byBMb25kb24uIFRoZSBmcm9udCB2 aWV3IG9mIHRoZSBjb2NrcGl0IHdhcyB2ZXJ5IHNoYWt5Lg0KT2J2aW91c2x5IHRocm91Z2ggYSB0 ZWxlc2NvcGUsIGJ1dCB0aGVyZSB3YXMgYSBmaWVyY2Ugd2luZCBibG93aW5nIGF0DQp0aGUgdGlt ZSAtIE5pY29sYSBTdHVyZ2VvbiBoYWQgdG8gaGFuZyBvbiB0byBoZXIgaGF0IC0gc28gdGhhdCB3 YXMgdGhlDQpyZWFzb24uDQotLSANCkRhdmUgVw0K

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From MikeS@21:1/5 to John Williamson on Tue Sep 13 21:28:51 2022
    On 13/09/2022 17:36, John Williamson wrote:
    I've been watching the coverage of the Edinburgh bit, and the crew
    aren't exactly covering themselves in glory. wobbly cameras, and
    breaking up of the helicopter coverage again.

    I hope the London end have solved the problems.

    Does anyone know whether the radio linked cameras are making an on board recording as well, or are we going to be suffering digital breakup on
    all the next 50 years' worth of repeats?

    Those of us around before the start of the Queen's reign sit and wonder
    at modern technology. Apparently others sit and gripe about any
    broadcast short of 100% perfection.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MikeS@21:1/5 to John Williamson on Tue Sep 13 22:11:42 2022
    On 13/09/2022 21:46, John Williamson wrote:
    On 13/09/2022 21:28, MikeS wrote:
    Those of us around before the start of the Queen's reign sit and wonder
    at modern technology. Apparently others sit and gripe about any
    broadcast short of 100% perfection.

    Extreme telephoto on at least two cameras, but it seemed as if only one
    was shaking... That says operator error to me, or a cheap tripod.

    My domestic camcorder has firmware that can correct that magnitude of
    shake if I ask it to, I would be surprised if current pro gear didn't
    have it as well.

    At the airport I glimpsed one camera in shot at the end of a very long
    boom, presumably to get the viewing angle they wanted. Perhaps wind
    rather than operator error as you call it. I doubt they were using a
    "cheap tripod" from Poundshop.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Williamson@21:1/5 to MikeS on Tue Sep 13 21:46:57 2022
    On 13/09/2022 21:28, MikeS wrote:
    Those of us around before the start of the Queen's reign sit and wonder
    at modern technology. Apparently others sit and gripe about any
    broadcast short of 100% perfection.

    Extreme telephoto on at least two cameras, but it seemed as if only one
    was shaking... That says operator error to me, or a cheap tripod.

    My domestic camcorder has firmware that can correct that magnitude of
    shake if I ask it to, I would be surprised if current pro gear didn't
    have it as well.

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From sport@1985.tv@21:1/5 to MikeS on Tue Sep 13 15:52:02 2022
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:11:45 PM UTC+1, MikeS wrote:
    On 13/09/2022 21:46, John Williamson wrote:
    On 13/09/2022 21:28, MikeS wrote:
    Those of us around before the start of the Queen's reign sit and wonder >> at modern technology. Apparently others sit and gripe about any
    broadcast short of 100% perfection.

    Extreme telephoto on at least two cameras, but it seemed as if only one was shaking... That says operator error to me, or a cheap tripod.

    My domestic camcorder has firmware that can correct that magnitude of shake if I ask it to, I would be surprised if current pro gear didn't
    have it as well.

    At the airport I glimpsed one camera in shot at the end of a very long
    boom, presumably to get the viewing angle they wanted. Perhaps wind
    rather than operator error as you call it. I doubt they were using a
    "cheap tripod" from Poundshop.

    Yes, I caught a glimpse of the camera you mention on the end of the 'boom'. If fact it was a Technocrane, and a smallish looking one out of the range available. Broadcasters generally hire these on a daily basis complete with a crew who know how to set
    it up, are skilled in swinging the arm around 'live on shot' as it were, and how to manipulate the camera operationally to give the director what he or she wants - all very skilled work. Long time since I was involved even very remotely with them -
    before anyone asks, in my day the camera on the end of the crane would have used a triax connector and a set of slip rings to allow power/signals to be transferred to and from the camera which was capable of 360 or more rotation. If the camera on the end
    was a fibre optic model then there would be a triax/fibre/triax adapters mounted around the crane to facilitate the slip ring method of operation. Perhaps it may be different nowadays.

    There are broadcast camera/lens combinations that can provide image stability along the lines mentioned, Fujinon and Canon are two off the top of my head. A quick Google reveals this model by Fujinon for example:

    FUJINON UA107x8.4BESM-T45

    Tres expensive as you might imagine although I'm sure you would get a discount for quantity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From joe bloggs@21:1/5 to MikeS on Tue Sep 13 15:53:20 2022
    On Tuesday, September 13, 2022 at 10:11:45 PM UTC+1, MikeS wrote:
    On 13/09/2022 21:46, John Williamson wrote:
    On 13/09/2022 21:28, MikeS wrote:
    Those of us around before the start of the Queen's reign sit and wonder >> at modern technology. Apparently others sit and gripe about any
    broadcast short of 100% perfection.

    Extreme telephoto on at least two cameras, but it seemed as if only one was shaking... That says operator error to me, or a cheap tripod.

    My domestic camcorder has firmware that can correct that magnitude of shake if I ask it to, I would be surprised if current pro gear didn't
    have it as well.

    At the airport I glimpsed one camera in shot at the end of a very long
    boom, presumably to get the viewing angle they wanted. Perhaps wind
    rather than operator error as you call it. I doubt they were using a
    "cheap tripod" from Poundshop.

    Yes, I caught a glimpse of the camera you mention on the end of the 'boom'. If fact it was a Technocrane, and a smallish looking one out of the range available. Broadcasters generally hire these on a daily basis complete with a crew who know how to set
    it up, are skilled in swinging the arm around 'live on shot' as it were, and how to manipulate the camera operationally to give the director what he or she wants - all very skilled work. Long time since I was involved even very remotely with them -
    before anyone asks, in my day the camera on the end of the crane would have used a triax connector and a set of slip rings to allow power/signals to be transferred to and from the camera which was capable of 360 or more rotation. If the camera on the end
    was a fibre optic model then there would be a triax/fibre/triax adapters mounted around the crane to facilitate the slip ring method of operation. Perhaps it may be different nowadays.

    There are broadcast camera/lens combinations that can provide image stability along the lines mentioned, Fujinon and Canon are two off the top of my head. A quick Google reveals this model by Fujinon for example:

    FUJINON UA107x8.4BESM-T45

    Tres expensive as you might imagine although I'm sure you would get a discount for quantity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Brian Gaff@21:1/5 to John Williamson on Wed Sep 14 09:05:51 2022
    Who knows, don't worry CGI will by then be able to recreate the shots from scratch without any part of the original.
    grin.
    If you believe recent drama series this sort of fake news is already going
    on.
    Brian

    --

    --:
    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:jobpt4Fbcn5U1@mid.individual.net...
    I've been watching the coverage of the Edinburgh bit, and the crew aren't exactly covering themselves in glory. wobbly cameras, and breaking up of
    the helicopter coverage again.

    I hope the London end have solved the problems.

    Does anyone know whether the radio linked cameras are making an on board recording as well, or are we going to be suffering digital breakup on all
    the next 50 years' worth of repeats?
    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to John Williamson on Wed Sep 14 08:29:50 2022
    On 13/09/2022 21:46, John Williamson wrote:
    On 13/09/2022 21:28, MikeS wrote:
    Those of us around before the start of the Queen's reign sit and wonder
    at modern technology. Apparently others sit and gripe about any
    broadcast short of 100% perfection.

    Extreme telephoto on at least two cameras, but it seemed as if only
    one was shaking... That says operator error to me, or a cheap tripod.

    My domestic camcorder has firmware that can correct that magnitude of
    shake if I ask it to, I would be surprised if current pro gear didn't
    have it as well.

    You need a very steady camera mount, (preferably attached to the fabric
    of a building, but certainly attached to highly braced scaffolding) and
    a lot of mechanical inertia  to get a stable shot using a very zoomed in
    100x broadcast lens. They do actually incorporate (mechanical )image stabilisation

    All very achievable, as long as you have the time, resources, and
    relevant paperwork to allow such a rig. The Scottish elements of the
    'London Bridge' planning would have been down the priority list, as of
    course they only happened because HM died in the country. Quite frankly
    I was very impressed with the rigs in the chapel in Edinburgh
    considering the factors in play.

    Regarding the RF problems with the helicopter, as explained Scotland
    doesn't have the same bespoke Rx arrangements as the London area or
    Manchester.
    I hope you did notice the aerial shots from Northolt to Buck House were
    pretty flawless (RF wise) ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MB@21:1/5 to Mark Carver on Wed Sep 14 10:50:46 2022
    On 14/09/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:
    Regarding the RF problems with the helicopter, as explained Scotland
    doesn't have the same bespoke Rx arrangements as the London area or Manchester.


    As has been written, the Scottish location was not expected.

    Towards the end of the Queen Mother's life, I believe a fixed microwave
    link was installed by the BBC to allow coverage from the Castle of Mey area.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Williamson@21:1/5 to Mark Carver on Wed Sep 14 10:40:39 2022
    On 14/09/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:

    Regarding the RF problems with the helicopter, as explained Scotland
    doesn't have the same bespoke Rx arrangements as the London area or Manchester.
    I hope you did notice the aerial shots from Northolt to Buck House were pretty flawless (RF wise) ?

    That end all seemed to go very well. My only slight worry was that a
    couple of years after moving out of London, I could glance at the screen
    and know within a few feet where the cortege was every time.

    When I think about it, as London has the population of Scotland in an
    area thirty miles across, and a lot of special events, for their
    equipment, it's just another of the many events they've used the
    equipment for this year.

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From tony sayer@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 15 11:42:13 2022
    In article <jode7fFj456U1@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> scribeth thus
    On 13/09/2022 21:46, John Williamson wrote:
    On 13/09/2022 21:28, MikeS wrote:
    Those of us around before the start of the Queen's reign sit and wonder
    at modern technology. Apparently others sit and gripe about any
    broadcast short of 100% perfection.

    Extreme telephoto on at least two cameras, but it seemed as if only
    one was shaking... That says operator error to me, or a cheap tripod.

    My domestic camcorder has firmware that can correct that magnitude of
    shake if I ask it to, I would be surprised if current pro gear didn't
    have it as well.

    You need a very steady camera mount, (preferably attached to the fabric
    of a building, but certainly attached to highly braced scaffolding) and
    a lot of mechanical inertia  to get a stable shot using a very zoomed in
    100x broadcast lens. They do actually incorporate (mechanical )image >stabilisation

    All very achievable, as long as you have the time, resources, and
    relevant paperwork to allow such a rig. The Scottish elements of the
    'London Bridge' planning would have been down the priority list, as of
    course they only happened because HM died in the country. Quite frankly
    I was very impressed with the rigs in the chapel in Edinburgh
    considering the factors in play.

    Regarding the RF problems with the helicopter, as explained Scotland
    doesn't have the same bespoke Rx arrangements as the London area or >Manchester.
    I hope you did notice the aerial shots from Northolt to Buck House were >pretty flawless (RF wise) ?

    Yes over on Flightradar24 you could trace the Arena aviation helicopter!

    Who i suspect have some decent allocated OK link frequencies and
    receiver points!..
    --
    Tony Sayer


    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

    Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From tony sayer@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 15 12:38:26 2022
    In article <tfs85k$2s9to$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
    thus
    On 14/09/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:
    Regarding the RF problems with the helicopter, as explained Scotland
    doesn't have the same bespoke Rx arrangements as the London area or
    Manchester.


    As has been written, the Scottish location was not expected.

    Towards the end of the Queen Mother's life, I believe a fixed microwave
    link was installed by the BBC to allow coverage from the Castle of Mey area.


    There was a plan if she passed whilst out of her own backyard!

    As to reception over remote bu its of Scotland i suspect that maybe 4G
    was used for that or bonded channels which begs another question might
    that lock up more cell sites than a little?.


    Assuming that were that many over that bit of Scotland?..
    --
    Tony Sayer


    Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.

    Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 15 14:31:02 2022
    On 15/09/2022 14:19, MB wrote:
    On 15/09/2022 12:38, tony sayer wrote:
    There was a plan if she passed whilst out of her own backyard!


    The old days when OBs planned ahead for things like that unlike
    nowadays when IBA (I believe) did not even check for low bridges on
    the route to a planned OB so had a very long detour to make.

    The IBA ?  Eh ?

    SiS had their depot next door to a 12ft clearance railway bridge at
    Langley.  !

    <https://www.google.com/maps/@51.5084906,-0.5425114,3a,39.3y,37.31h,84.03t/data=!3m7!1e1!3m5!1s_B3YXp0yflCR3FkOS29RFg!2e0!5s20120601T000000!7i13312!8i6656>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From MB@21:1/5 to tony sayer on Thu Sep 15 14:19:26 2022
    On 15/09/2022 12:38, tony sayer wrote:
    There was a plan if she passed whilst out of her own backyard!


    The old days when OBs planned ahead for things like that unlike nowadays
    when IBA (I believe) did not even check for low bridges on the route to
    a planned OB so had a very long detour to make.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From MB@21:1/5 to Mark Carver on Thu Sep 15 16:57:02 2022
    On 15/09/2022 14:31, Mark Carver wrote:
    The IBA ?  Eh ?

    SiS had their depot next door to a 12ft clearance railway bridge at Langley.  !


    NTL then, I lose track of these Mickey Mouse companies that change name
    every week. :-)

    I bet there was not a 100 mile detour to avoid that bridge.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 15 18:16:06 2022
    On 15/09/2022 16:57, MB wrote:
    On 15/09/2022 14:31, Mark Carver wrote:
    The IBA ?  Eh ?

    SiS had their depot next door to a 12ft clearance railway bridge at
    Langley.  !


    NTL then,
    They never operated any OB trucks either ?

    I thought you used to work in broadcasting ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From MB@21:1/5 to Mark Carver on Thu Sep 15 21:19:25 2022
    On 15/09/2022 18:16, Mark Carver wrote:
    They never operated any OB trucks either ?

    I thought you used to work in broadcasting ?


    No idea, just thought it was them but hard to keep track since it all
    had to be contracted out.

    Had little to do with OBs (strange people!) and I have never seen any
    ITV / STV OB unit in the Highlands.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 15 21:28:50 2022
    On 15/09/2022 21:19, MB wrote:
    On 15/09/2022 18:16, Mark Carver wrote:
    They never operated any OB trucks either ?

    I thought you used to work in broadcasting ?


    No idea, just thought it was them but hard to keep track since it all
    had to be contracted out.

    Had little to do with OBs (strange people!) and I have never seen any
    ITV / STV OB unit in the Highlands.


    I don't think STV have any (apart from News Vans). BBC Scotland only has
    one proper OB truck.

    The UK has scores of them hough, but not quite enough to cover all the requirements for this period.
    I gather NEP are bringing some in from Europe

    Here's some reading for you

    https://www.nepgroup.com/truckcountries/united-kingdom

    https://www.timeline.tv/outside-broadcasts-rf/

    https://www.cloudbass.com/

    https://uk.emglive.com/

    It's how it's all done these days, get with the times.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From MB@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 18 18:28:03 2022
    The delay on the "live" feed from Westminster Hall seems to be several
    minutes. Earlier BBC were describing Biden's visit to the Lying in
    State but there was a long time before the images from the cameras in
    the hall appeared.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 20 13:48:26 2022
    On 18/09/2022 18:28, MB wrote:
    The delay on the "live" feed from Westminster Hall seems to be several minutes.  Earlier BBC were describing Biden's visit to the Lying in
    State but there was a long time before the images from the cameras in
    the hall appeared.



    I think after the 'incident' there on Friday night, they stuck the
    'live' TV feed on a delay. Easy enough to do these days

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robin@21:1/5 to Mark Carver on Tue Sep 20 14:30:52 2022
    On 20/09/2022 13:48, Mark Carver wrote:
    On 18/09/2022 18:28, MB wrote:
    The delay on the "live" feed from Westminster Hall seems to be several
    minutes.  Earlier BBC were describing Biden's visit to the Lying in
    State but there was a long time before the images from the cameras in
    the hall appeared.



    I think after the 'incident' there on Friday night, they stuck the
    'live' TV feed on a delay. Easy enough to do these days

    Some reported the delay was introduced after an earlier event - one of
    the people standing vigil collapsing.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/royal-guard-faints-queen-s-coffin-westminster-hall-lying-in-state-b1025755.html



    --
    Robin
    reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris J Dixon@21:1/5 to Robin on Tue Sep 20 15:54:46 2022
    Robin wrote:

    Some reported the delay was introduced after an earlier event - one of
    the people standing vigil collapsing.

    https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/royal-guard-faints-queen-s-coffin-westminster-hall-lying-in-state-b1025755.html

    I find it hard to understand the meaning of this paragraph in
    that article:

    "While the soldiers rotate every 20 minutes, the hours of
    remaining completely still while standing are six-hours in
    length."

    I guess that are trying to say that they are present for six
    hours, and every 20 minutes those standing by the coffin are
    rotated.

    Chris
    --
    Chris J Dixon Nottingham UK
    chris@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1

    Plant amazing Acers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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