I am wondering what happens now. Can software scan the entire audio
file and set the optimum level? Given that most music is played using
a playout system (certainly Gold is), are the levels set when the
tracks are uploaded?
I am wondering what happens now. Can software scan the entire audio
file and set the optimum level? Given that most music is played using
a playout system (certainly Gold is), are the levels set when the
tracks are uploaded?
Can software scan the entire audio
file and set the optimum level?
In article <6nkrgh5v79p45ppfkr28o813dibd794j0e@4ax.com>,
Scott says...
Can software scan the entire audioI had a Sony CD player which had the facility to scan the entire CD,
file and set the optimum level?
find the loudest passage and play this section repeatedly in A-B mode to >faciliate setting levels on a recorder
For a long time now, recording studios have been able to produce very
high quality recordings with a wide dynamic range, but have chosen not
to. (See :- "Loudness Wars")
On 30/08/2022 10:12, Scott wrote:
I am wondering what happens now. Can software scan the entire audioFor a long time now, recording studios have been able to produce very
file and set the optimum level? Given that most music is played using
a playout system (certainly Gold is), are the levels set when the
tracks are uploaded?
high quality recordings with a wide dynamic range, but have chosen not
to. (See :- "Loudness Wars")
Then the radio stations put a multi band dynamics compressor on the feed
to the transmitter, for instance:-
https://www.orban.com/optimodfm-8700i
Most stations now use software in the playout computer to do the job,
and Otimod sell a plug in to do the job.
https://www.orban.com/overview-opticodec7600
When used as most are, they can be set to almost eliminate any
remaining dynamic range and massage the frequency bands on the output to
give your station it's own unique "sound", be that aggressive and edgy
or laid back and smooth, no matter what is on the original track.
For marketing purposes, they can make heavy metal sound like the mic >swallowing crooners or vice versa.
As almost all the material is now digital, the peak level in the chain
is set to the digital maximum, and they work from there. Even the faders
on the desk work in the digital domain, with the announcer's mic being
fed into an ADC.
Very few will sit in the comfy chair and listen to a classical concert
under ideal conditions that rarely happens! OK it does here as I'm a dedicated Radio 3 fan. But for most like Scott I'm sure the acoustics of
his bathroom are superb;)
I was lying in the bath last night, listening to Gold, when I started
to wonder how the levels are set on radio nowadays.
When I was a boy, I was taught (for recording generally) that the idea
was to find the loudest part of the passage and take the needle as
close as possible to the red - and that it was okay for the needle to
stray occasionally into the red as long as it did not stay there for
any length of time. This was to avoid the whole track being too quiet because of one loud note.
I am wondering what happens now. Can software scan the entire audio
file and set the optimum level? Given that most music is played using
a playout system (certainly Gold is), are the levels set when the
tracks are uploaded?
Did it scan in real time though, or was it a fast scan?
On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:04:20 +0100, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk>
wrote:
You may not have seen this but a bit here on the women engineers who run >>the audio side of mainly BBC radio 3!, nice to see that Susan and Tanzy-the-scenes-with-the-women-who-make-the-bbc
do their "level best" to get the audio as good as it can be:)..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2X7JQpy3fFGyRQVYgQvPYxB/behind
I find it curious that although one of the pictures shows a room full
of women engineers being trained in 1941, when I worked in BBC
Engineering between 1968 and 1975, I never met one, or even heard of
any, either at work or on any training course I ever attended. I
remember being quite hopeful on seeing that the map of Wood Norton in
the little blue booklet they sent me included women's quarters, which
meant that presumably they had to cater for them, so I might meet
some. Although I'd never met any girls or women who had any interest
in electronics, maybe they did exist after all and there were some in
the BBC, but apparently this was not the case. I worked in television,
not radio, so I wonder if this is what made the difference? However it
seems improbable that radio would be swarming with women engineers
while there were none at all in television.
You may not have seen this but a bit here on the women engineers who run
the audio side of mainly BBC radio 3!, nice to see that Susan and Tanzy
do their "level best" to get the audio as good as it can be:)..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2X7JQpy3fFGyRQVYgQvPYxB/behind -the-scenes-with-the-women-who-make-the-bbc
On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:04:20 +0100, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk>
wrote:
You may not have seen this but a bit here on the women engineers who run >the audio side of mainly BBC radio 3!, nice to see that Susan and Tanzy
do their "level best" to get the audio as good as it can be:)..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2X7JQpy3fFGyRQVYgQvPYxB/behind -the-scenes-with-the-women-who-make-the-bbc
I find it curious that although one of the pictures shows a room full
of women engineers being trained in 1941, when I worked in BBC
Engineering between 1968 and 1975, I never met one, or even heard of
any, either at work or on any training course I ever attended. I
remember being quite hopeful on seeing that the map of Wood Norton in
the little blue booklet they sent me included women's quarters, which
meant that presumably they had to cater for them, so I might meet
some. Although I'd never met any girls or women who had any interest
in electronics, maybe they did exist after all and there were some in
the BBC, but apparently this was not the case. I worked in television,
not radio, so I wonder if this is what made the difference? However it
seems improbable that radio would be swarming with women engineers
while there were none at all in television.
On 30/08/2022 14:04, tony sayer wrote:
Very few will sit in the comfy chair and listen to a classical concert
under ideal conditions that rarely happens! OK it does here as I'm a
dedicated Radio 3 fan. But for most like Scott I'm sure the acoustics of
his bathroom are superb;)
It's only music, the purists will probably claim to only listen to live
music in a concert hall (only the very best concert halls of course).
"Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message >news:togsgh54hcfd3emqf40mr1ohm2cp6g46sl@4ax.com...
On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:04:20 +0100, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk>
wrote:
You may not have seen this but a bit here on the women engineers who run >>>the audio side of mainly BBC radio 3!, nice to see that Susan and Tanzy >>>do their "level best" to get the audio as good as it can be:)..-the-scenes-with-the-women-who-make-the-bbc
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2X7JQpy3fFGyRQVYgQvPYxB/behind
I find it curious that although one of the pictures shows a room full
of women engineers being trained in 1941, when I worked in BBC
Engineering between 1968 and 1975, I never met one, or even heard of
any, either at work or on any training course I ever attended. I
remember being quite hopeful on seeing that the map of Wood Norton in
the little blue booklet they sent me included women's quarters, which
meant that presumably they had to cater for them, so I might meet
some. Although I'd never met any girls or women who had any interest
in electronics, maybe they did exist after all and there were some in
the BBC, but apparently this was not the case. I worked in television,
not radio, so I wonder if this is what made the difference? However it
seems improbable that radio would be swarming with women engineers
while there were none at all in television.
It is interesting that when I was at university in the early 1980s, there >were two women on my elec eng course (and one of them changed to do law
after a year). In contrast, in similar size classes, there was a much
greater proportion of women doing mechanical, aeronautical and civil >engineering. Was my year unusual, or was it normal that electronic >engineering attracts fewer women than other branches of engineering?
The general consensus that I got from talking to various women doing >engineering and physics was that schools, especially all-girls schools, were >dissuading women from doing anything scientific and (even more so) anything >that involved engineering, using excuses like "that's not the sort of thing >that women as a career", which is an attitude that I'd have expected in the >1930s, not the 1980s. The proportion in the physics class at university was >about 1/4 women - still a long way short of 50:50, but a lot better than one >woman in a class of 40.
When I worked in industry as a software engineer, there were very few women: >probably about 5 in a department of about 60. Other related departments such >as software testing or technical authoring had a much greater proportion of >women.
On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:34:38 +0100, Unsteadyken
<unsteadyken@gmail.com> wrote:
In article <6nkrgh5v79p45ppfkr28o813dibd794j0e@4ax.com>,
Scott says...
Can software scan the entire audioI had a Sony CD player which had the facility to scan the entire CD,
file and set the optimum level?
find the loudest passage and play this section repeatedly in A-B mode to >>faciliate setting levels on a recorder
Did it scan in real time though, or was it a fast scan?
I was lying in the bath last night, listening to Gold, when I started
to wonder how the levels are set on radio nowadays.
When I was a boy, I was taught (for recording generally) that the idea
was to find the loudest part of the passage and take the needle as
close as possible to the red - and that it was okay for the needle to
stray occasionally into the red as long as it did not stay there for
any length of time. This was to avoid the whole track being too quiet because of one loud note.
I am wondering what happens now. Can software scan the entire audio
file and set the optimum level? Given that most music is played using
a playout system (certainly Gold is), are the levels set when the
tracks are uploaded?
If it was like the one on the Akai cd player it was quite fast, not exactly >instant. I believe Sansui had a similar idea. One has to remember that both >companies made Cassette decks and so wanted to not overload things.
Technics, however did not have this, since most of their decks by then used
DBX noise reduction and outperformed the other decks by miles in dynamic >range.
Brian
In article <22rrgh507ngo3muvurn3ch0dj4uqktl13e@4ax.com>,
Scott says...
Did it scan in real time though, or was it a fast scan?
Fast, less than 20 seconds, I never used it, only tried it out of
curiosity, as I was using the digital out to record to MiniDisc
--
Ken
On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 10:53:39 +0100, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
For a long time now, recording studios have been able to produce very
high quality recordings with a wide dynamic range, but have chosen not
to. (See :- "Loudness Wars")
I wonder if this has anything to do with the dynamic range of the
average living room? Audio with wide dynamic range is often available
in movie soundtracks, and with more people in recent years watching
movies at home, more people are being exposed to it in listening
environments that really aren't suitable.
A very common complaint about TV sound, particularly in dramas and
movies, is music and effects being much too loud compared with the
dialogue, requiring frequent manipulation of the volume control to be
able to follow what is going on without annoying the neighbours.
Directors may love the "realism" of a huge dynamic range when they
hear it in an editing room, but I think some of them forget who they
are selling it to. Perhaps they still think they're mixing their
soundtracks for a captive audience in a cinema so it doesn't matter if
the loud bits are deafening.
Maybe the purveyors of music recordings, who have always sold their
wares for listening in the home, have had longer to learn what pleases
their customers and what causes them to complain.
Rod.
Did anyone remember a demo run by Philips and a certain German maker of in >car stereo where the digigital stream could be adjusted to play the discs >with different amounts of dynamic ranges so it could be heard better in a >car. As far as I can recall, I did hear of this possibly being muted as a >function on DAB, but nothing ever seemed to appear. Rumour says that the >producers of music did not like the idea of their productions being fiddled >with, I bet they are pretty sick now then, considering what passes for good >quality on concerts and other radio programmes. The bland sound seems to be >the norm nowadays.
Brian
On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 14:04:20 +0100, tony sayer <tony@bancom.co.uk>
wrote:
You may not have seen this but a bit here on the women engineers who run >>the audio side of mainly BBC radio 3!, nice to see that Susan and Tanzy-the-scenes-with-the-women-who-make-the-bbc
do their "level best" to get the audio as good as it can be:)..
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/articles/2X7JQpy3fFGyRQVYgQvPYxB/behind
I find it curious that although one of the pictures shows a room full
of women engineers being trained in 1941, when I worked in BBC
Engineering between 1968 and 1975, I never met one, or even heard of
any, either at work or on any training course I ever attended. I
remember being quite hopeful on seeing that the map of Wood Norton in
the little blue booklet they sent me included women's quarters, which
meant that presumably they had to cater for them, so I might meet
some. Although I'd never met any girls or women who had any interest
in electronics, maybe they did exist after all and there were some in
the BBC, but apparently this was not the case. I worked in television,
not radio, so I wonder if this is what made the difference? However it
seems improbable that radio would be swarming with women engineers
while there were none at all in television.
Rod.
Although a lot better than it used to be, Carsick FM still is compressed to hell.
On 31/08/2022 11:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
 Although a lot better than it used to be, Carsick FM still is
compressed to
hell.
Are the studios in Sheffield S10 3LW?
On 31/08/2022 17:27, williamwright wrote:
On 31/08/2022 11:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
Although a lot better than it used to be, Carsick FM still is
compressed to
hell.
Are the studios in Sheffield S10 3LW?
There's carsick all over the roads round there ;-)
I'm surprised the roads were named Carsick <Drive/Lane/Crescent/View> or
that residents didn't campaign to have the names changed.
I imagine my former colleague Hans Puke (pronounced Poo-ka) would live
there ;-)
On 31/08/2022 17:27, williamwright wrote:
On 31/08/2022 11:56, Brian Gaff wrote:
Although a lot better than it used to be, Carsick FM still is
compressed to
hell.
Are the studios in Sheffield S10 3LW?
There's carsick all over the roads round there ;-)
I'm surprised the roads were named Carsick <Drive/Lane/Crescent/View> or
that residents didn't campaign to have the names changed.
They can be, but from a listen I'd say they use a limiter as well, quite
a severe one, though not quite amass bad as the one on Radio, I'm
assuming they use Optimod or its successor, probably now in software.
Back in the early days of Capital they did occasionally when CDs came
out
do a few shows with no processing, and it was a revelation. This was
stopped, one assumes as it needed an engineer and cost money.
They had a play with Dolby for a while but decided the sound of
unprocessed
Dolby was bad, so went to Optimod.
I stopped listening shortly after.
Its actually very hard to get perceived loudness and the levels right
as
many of the old single records were compressed and many of today's
releases are also compressed, but not all. So those not compressed sound quiet. I think much of today's radio is compressed so it can be heard
better in a car with the high ambient noise.
If you can hear a station playing the full version of Riders on the
Storm,
and listen to the rain pumping up and down compared to the cd release
then you can easily embarrassed the compression.
Brian
In article <tel3k0$1fth8$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
thus
On 30/08/2022 14:04, tony sayer wrote:Yes inddedy but thats an expensive old hobby these days mind you here in Cambridge we have the West road hall of the Uni
Very few will sit in the comfy chair and listen to a classical concert
under ideal conditions that rarely happens! OK it does here as I'm a
dedicated Radio 3 fan. But for most like Scott I'm sure the acoustics
of his bathroom are superb;)
It's only music, the purists will probably claim to only listen to live >>music in a concert hall (only the very best concert halls of course).
http://www.westroad.org/
Plus that old chapel place useful for Xmas carols;)
https://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/chapel
and a saffron hall over at Saffron Walden a very nice place funded by a
local entrepreneur!
https://www.saffronhall.com/
And despite this being an add-on to a school!, they do put on very good concerts as that whats on list shows small town out on the wilds of
Essex!.
Other then that its a trip to London to the RAH still affordable but
maybe not so easy for our Northern folk still you don't do too bad i
'opp North of Watford;)..
On Tue, 30 Aug 2022 21:11:37 +0100, tony sayer wrote:
In article <tel3k0$1fth8$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribeth
thus
On 30/08/2022 14:04, tony sayer wrote:Yes inddedy but thats an expensive old hobby these days mind you here in
Very few will sit in the comfy chair and listen to a classical concert >>>> under ideal conditions that rarely happens! OK it does here as I'm a
dedicated Radio 3 fan. But for most like Scott I'm sure the acoustics
of his bathroom are superb;)
It's only music, the purists will probably claim to only listen to live >>>music in a concert hall (only the very best concert halls of course).
Cambridge we have the West road hall of the Uni
http://www.westroad.org/
Plus that old chapel place useful for Xmas carols;)
https://www.kings.cam.ac.uk/chapel
and a saffron hall over at Saffron Walden a very nice place funded by a
local entrepreneur!
https://www.saffronhall.com/
And despite this being an add-on to a school!, they do put on very good
concerts as that whats on list shows small town out on the wilds of
Essex!.
Other then that its a trip to London to the RAH still affordable but
maybe not so easy for our Northern folk still you don't do too bad i
'opp North of Watford;)..
Where is Watford.?
Where is Watford.?
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