At the time of the "scorcchio" weather last week, it was said that the temperature and/or pressure might cause changes (worsenings) in TV
reception. Is that still the case? I ask because I've lost one of the
muxes - COM4 on Belmont which is the highest of all the frequencies that
they use. When I say "lost" I mean that TVs report "no signal" and
DVB-USB tuners report "no lock" for channels on that mux. And "no lock"
means that you don't even get any indication of signal level or SNR.
COM4 has always been the weakest signal, but usually I'm just on the
right side of the digital cliff and I don't normally even notice more glitches in a recording from a channel on that mux compared with a
channel on another mux.
If reception conditions at the moment are untypical, I'll leave things
as they are; I mainly use satellite and only need terrestrial if there's another programme on another channel/mux to be recorded at the same time.
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops inYep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money) dept store in Reading
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops inYep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money)Â dept store in Reading
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
The only place where I've seen them is a bit of a cheat: the CoOp in Beamish Open Air Museum. Actually, I'm wondering whether that was atmospheric. It may have used a lever-operated platform to raise a ball containing the cash onto an
overhead trackway along which it rolled to the cash office.
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops inYep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money) dept store in Reading
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >news:jkd4ppFuf2hU1@mid.individual.net...
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops inYep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money) dept store in Reading
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
Ah, did they have them. The only place where I've seen them is a bit of a >cheat: the CoOp in Beamish Open Air Museum. Actually, I'm wondering whether >that was atmospheric. It may have used a lever-operated platform to raise a >ball containing the cash onto an overhead trackway along which it rolled to >the cash office. Not sure how the ball made its return journey: maybe it >didn't and a supply of empty balls had to be taken back to the sales >assistants by hand periodically.
There were also modern-day ones (which were atmospheric) that were fitted to >each checkout till in some branches of Tesco in the 1990s. I wonder how much >cash a typical supermarket handles these days, with almost all transactions >being by card. I suppose there must *some* if self-service checkouts are >occasionally marked "card only" when there is (presumably) a fault with the >cash-handling
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
of course. The Co-op in Roseburn, Edinburgh had such a sysyem
On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 18:06:59 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>news:jkd4ppFuf2hU1@mid.individual.net...
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops inYep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money) dept store in Reading
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember >>>> them?
Ah, did they have them. The only place where I've seen them is a bit of a >>cheat: the CoOp in Beamish Open Air Museum. Actually, I'm wondering
whether
that was atmospheric. It may have used a lever-operated platform to raise
a
ball containing the cash onto an overhead trackway along which it rolled
to
the cash office. Not sure how the ball made its return journey: maybe it >>didn't and a supply of empty balls had to be taken back to the sales >>assistants by hand periodically.
I thought the return journey carried the customer's receipt.
On 27/07/2022 17:10, charles wrote:
of course. The Co-op in Roseburn, Edinburgh had such a sysyem
The One Show did a piece about them a few years ago, they set up a system around the studio as a demonstration.
They are widely used in hospitals apparently for moving samples, drugs etc around.
https://www.aerocom.co.uk/products/aerocom-pneumatic-tube-systems/
https://pneumatic.tube/the-lamson-pneumatic-tube-system-at-jacksons-of-reading-uk
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
I remember Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road where you had to go down
to the ground floor and queue at a cashier box, pay, be given a receipt
and then go up several floors to collect your books. And that was long
after shops gave up the pneumatic tubes.
I wonder how many times customers got down to the ground floor cashier,
saw a long queue and thought "Sod it! I'm not waiting in this queue for
ages and then going back up to get my books. I'll go to Waterstones /
Borders etc and buy the books there instead where it's a straightforward process."
I haven't bought a book for years. I doubt if paper books will exist
except as a niche market for much longer. Unthinkable? New media usually displace older formats. Floppy disks, gramophone records, camera film.
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
I remember Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road where you had to go
down to the ground floor and queue at a cashier box, pay, be given a
receipt and then go up several floors to collect your books. And that
was long after shops gave up the pneumatic tubes.
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking ofYep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money) dept
the system in shops in
the old days where a tube containing money was
sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the
tube. Anyone remember
them?
store in Reading
On 27/07/2022 21:48, NY wrote:
I wonder how many times customers got down to the ground floor cashier,
saw a long queue and thought "Sod it! I'm not waiting in this queue for
ages and then going back up to get my books. I'll go to Waterstones /
Borders etc and buy the books there instead where it's a straightforward
process."
I haven't bought a book for years. I doubt if paper books will exist
except as a niche market for much longer. Unthinkable? New media usually displace older formats. Floppy disks, gramophone records, camera film.
"Scott" <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message >news:8ks2eh5hlq9g9fimho3r5eo9vdl38e3trk@4ax.com...
On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 18:06:59 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>>news:jkd4ppFuf2hU1@mid.individual.net...
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in >>>>> the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go toYep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money) dept store in Reading
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember >>>>> them?
Ah, did they have them. The only place where I've seen them is a bit of a >>>cheat: the CoOp in Beamish Open Air Museum. Actually, I'm wondering >>>whether
that was atmospheric. It may have used a lever-operated platform to raise >>>a
ball containing the cash onto an overhead trackway along which it rolled >>>to
the cash office. Not sure how the ball made its return journey: maybe it >>>didn't and a supply of empty balls had to be taken back to the sales >>>assistants by hand periodically.
I thought the return journey carried the customer's receipt.
I wonder if in the case of a ball-on-a-track system, which has no immediate >return path (*), the sales assistant writes/prints the receipt and assumes >the money to be paid as soon as he sends it on its way to the cash office, >rather than the normal procedure with a pneumatic system where the cash >office writes the receipt and returns it to the assistant to give to the >customer.
The pneumatic system in supermarkets was a batch process in the idle time
(if any!) between customers, whereby the cashier could send off some cash to >the office, rather than a secure trolley being wheeled around to do this. >Probably a bit less tempting to an opportunistic thief, though I bet those >trolleys have wheels that lock and dye that sprays out if they are stolen as >they are doing the till-emptying run.
Someone's mentioned Sainsburys. I'm *sure* I remember the system in my local >supermarket which was Tesco, but I could well be confusing two things - my >local Tesco and seeing pneumatics in another shop that may not even have
been Tesco.
(*) Because if the track is sloping down from assistant to cash office so
the ball rolls that way, it will be sloping *up* when they want to send the >ball back, hence my suggestion that there may be a "mandraulic" procedure
for returning a batch of balls every so often,
Similarly with a petrol station near me a few years ago. One day, for
some reason, they introduced a requirement to go to the counter and
pay or leave your credit card, before filling your car.
I remember Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road where you had to go down
to the ground floor and queue at a cashier box, pay, be given a receipt
and then go up several floors to collect your books. And that was long
after shops gave up the pneumatic tubes.
Foyles had a death wish with that system. It was so customer-unfriendly that >they didn't deserve to stay in business.
On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:48:56 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
I remember Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road where you had to go down >>> to the ground floor and queue at a cashier box, pay, be given a receipt
and then go up several floors to collect your books. And that was long
after shops gave up the pneumatic tubes.
Foyles had a death wish with that system. It was so customer-unfriendly that >> they didn't deserve to stay in business.
Similarly with a petrol station near me a few years ago. One day, for
some reason, they introduced a requirement to go to the counter and
pay or leave your credit card, before filling your car. This system inevitably required two visits to the counter instead of one, and
round about the same time, some other petrol stations, notably Tesco,
were introducing pay-at-the-pump which requires no visits to the
counter at all. You'd have thought anyone with more than three
functioning brain cells could have predicted the result of this.
That petrol station closed shortly afterwards and the site became
derelict for a couple of years. It's now a mini Tesco.
That was in the fuel shortages (ISTR caused by tankers being blockaded
at fuel terminals?) around 2000(?). I had a company fuel card and even
that had to be taken to the desk before I could fill up.
As a radio comms eng with emergency service customers in the early part
of it I used to go fill up at 1am without problem.
On Wed 27/07/2022 19:53, Max Demian wrote:
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
I remember Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road where you had to go down
to the ground floor and queue at a cashier box, pay, be given a receipt
and then go up several floors to collect your books. And that was long
after shops gave up the pneumatic tubes.
I remember going into a shop in Prague soon after Communism collapsed to
buy some bread rolls.
We went to one counter and selected our items where someone gave us a
piece of paper.
We took the piece of paper to another counter behind us where we gave it
and money to someone else.
We went to the other end of that counter and were given another piece of paper.
We returned to the original counter and handed over the last piece of
paper. We were told to go to the other end of the counter (opposite end to where we started) where we were given the rolls.
Queues everywhere.
People annoyed and frustrated.
Buying a couple of bread rolls took best part of 20 minutes!
so any attack on the till would be pointless, and no big amounts had to traverse
the shop.
SimonM wrote:
so any attack on the till would be pointless, and no big amounts had to
traverse the shop.
That's OK until the thieves break into the roofspace!
<https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780392>
On 28/07/2022 09:55, Woody wrote:
That was in the fuel shortages (ISTR caused by tankers being blockaded
at fuel terminals?) around 2000(?). I had a company fuel card and even
that had to be taken to the desk before I could fill up.
As a radio comms eng with emergency service customers in the early part
of it I used to go fill up at 1am without problem.
We had a letter authorising us use any pumps for emergency service but if none available we were sent a drum of Red(?) Diesel for the diesel
generator that we could use in the vehicles if necessary (a pump was
supplied as well to transfer to Jerry Cans). We just had to fill in a
form to say how much we had used but never had to use any of it.
That emergency authorisation to use red diesel in cars was an
interesting one. I gather that red diesel contains chemicals which can
be detected in the fuel system long after the red diesel has been used
up and you've switched back to white diesel - so HMRC can detect whether you've *ever* done it in the past, not just if you are caught with it in
your tank. Once the temporary authorisation came into effect, anyone
with an old enough car to have been on the road at that time, who has
access to red diesel, has a cast-iron get-out if they are suspected of
using it since then - as long as they don't have it in the tank at the
time.
Apparently there are ways of "straining" out the red dye fairly easily -
no idea how, never researched it, don't want to know - but getting rid
of the long-lasting chemical marker has not yet been cracked.
I presume trains use red diesel rather than white diesel because white
diesel is DERV - emphasis on the R=road, as opposed to a fictitious W=wheeled. Is heating oil stained red to prevent it being used in diesel cars?
I've always wondered: how much do HGVs pay for their fuel, bought in
bulk with economies of scale, compared with the pump price of diesel?
On Thu 28/07/2022 09:40, Roderick Stewart wrote:
On Wed, 27 Jul 2022 21:48:56 +0100, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:
I remember Foyles bookshop in Charing Cross Road where you had to go down >>>> to the ground floor and queue at a cashier box, pay, be given a receipt >>>> and then go up several floors to collect your books. And that was long >>>> after shops gave up the pneumatic tubes.
Foyles had a death wish with that system. It was so customer-unfriendly that
they didn't deserve to stay in business.
Similarly with a petrol station near me a few years ago. One day, for
some reason, they introduced a requirement to go to the counter and
pay or leave your credit card, before filling your car. This system
inevitably required two visits to the counter instead of one, and
round about the same time, some other petrol stations, notably Tesco,
were introducing pay-at-the-pump which requires no visits to the
counter at all. You'd have thought anyone with more than three
functioning brain cells could have predicted the result of this.
That petrol station closed shortly afterwards and the site became
derelict for a couple of years. It's now a mini Tesco.
That was in the fuel shortages (ISTR caused by tankers being blockaded
at fuel terminals?) around 2000(?). I had a company fuel card and even
that had to be taken to the desk before I could fill up.
As a radio comms eng with emergency service customers in the early part
of it I used to go fill up at 1am without problem.
That emergency authorisation to use red diesel in cars was an interesting one. I gather that red diesel contains chemicals which can be detected in
the fuel system long after the red diesel has been used up and you've switched back to white diesel - so HMRC can detect whether you've*ever*
done it in the past, not just if you are caught with it in your tank. Once the temporary authorisation came into effect, anyone with an old enough car to have been on the road at that time, who has access to red diesel, has a cast-iron get-out if they are suspected of using it since then - as long as they don't have it in the tank at the time.
You wonder how these awkward systems started? Were they designed to be >awkward and bureaucratic, or did no-one think through the shopping
experience from the customer's point of view?
The rules changed recently, and now all building plant and things like
fork lift trucks in warehouses now has to use road diesel, not red, though farmers are still allowed to use red as long as the machinery is only used
on their own farm.
I presume trains use red diesel rather than white diesel because white diesel is
DERV
"John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:jkf5tpF9qe4U1@mid.individual.net...
The rules changed recently, and now all building plant and things like
fork lift trucks in warehouses now has to use road diesel, not red,
though farmers are still allowed to use red as long as the machinery
is only used on their own farm.
I presume that farmers can still use red diesel permanently, but they
now have to declare the number of miles that they drive on roads between farms etc, whereas previously they didn't have to. Surely no-one expects
them to drain the tank of red diesel as they leave a field, fill up with white diesel for the road journey and then swap back when they get to
the other farm/field.
You wonder how these awkward systems started? Were they designed to be awkward and bureaucratic, or did no-one think through the shopping
experience from the customer's point of view?
SimonM wrote:
so any attack on the till would be pointless, and no big amounts had
to traverse the shop.
That's OK until the thieves break into the roofspace!
<https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780392>
On 28/07/2022 10:04, NY wrote:
You wonder how these awkward systems started? Were they designed to beShop staff were and are not always 100% honest or trustworthy.
awkward and bureaucratic, or did no-one think through the shopping
experience from the customer's point of view?
In the case of the older stores, it was to avoid having the counter
staff handle any money, which was all handled by the accountancy staff
in a secure cage, and watched by their overseers. Early tills were not
very reliable, either.
For much the same reason, when Woolworths started, all items were priced
at, say, 11 1/2d, not a round shilling. The customer was very unlikely
to have the correct change, so the girl had to open the till to take the >change out, as the customer would invariably wait for it, which meant
she would put the money in and issue a receipt. There was also a rule
that nobody working on the shop floor was permitted to have pockets in
their clothes, and store uniforms were designed accordingly. That is the
main reason that large stores always issued a uniform, which had to be
worn when on duty, to all staff.
Nowadays,there is at least one camera watching every till at all times
and the operator of the camera can count the money going in and the
money going out if they so desire.
On 28/07/2022 09:50, Andy Burns wrote:
That's OK until the thieves break into the roofspace!
<https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780392>
The ingenuity of the criminal classes is astonishing. As a contractor in various prisons I've been amazed at the clever tricks the cons get up to.
If only they'd used their brains to go straight...
NY wrote:
I presume trains use red diesel rather than white diesel because white diesel is
DERV
Might have done back then, but I think now everything that isn't agriculture (so
trains, excavators on building sites, canal boats) has to pay duty?
Thinking of ingenuity, I happened to see a "call sheet" (description of
what would happen on a day's filming) for an episode of Inspector Lewis.
They were filming some scenes in a real life prison (not a disused one).
I was amused to see a warning in big bold lettering for that day "All
camera ladders used for filming must be securely padlocked to the
railings whenever they are left unattended. This is NOT a joke."
It all seems to be based on the fundamental principle that employers
don't trust their employees. I wonder why that should be?
Ladders are a big problem when working in prisons.
On 28/07/2022 22:28, NY wrote:
Thinking of ingenuity, I happened to see a "call sheet"
(description of what would happen on a day's filming) for an
episode of Inspector Lewis. They were filming some scenes in a
real life prison (not a disused one). I was amused to see a
warning in big bold lettering for that day "All camera ladders
used for filming must be securely padlocked to the railings
whenever they are left unattended. This is NOT a joke."
Ladders are a big problem when working in prisons.
Bill
At the time of the "scorcchio" weather last week, it was said that the temperature and/or pressure might cause changes (worsenings) in TV
reception. Is that still the case? I ask because I've lost one of the
muxes - COM4 on Belmont which is the highest of all the frequencies that
they use. When I say "lost" I mean that TVs report "no signal" and DVB-USB tuners report "no lock" for channels on that mux. And "no lock" means that you don't even get any indication of signal level or SNR. COM4 has always been the weakest signal, but usually I'm just on the right side of the digital cliff and I don't normally even notice more glitches in a
recording from a channel on that mux compared with a channel on another
mux.
If reception conditions at the moment are untypical, I'll leave things as they are; I mainly use satellite and only need terrestrial if there's
another programme on another channel/mux to be recorded at the same time.
On 29/07/2022 03:12, williamwright wrote:
Ladders are a big problem when working in prisons.
I would think everything is a big problem, the inmates will nick
anything. Remember Fletcher with the bicycle bell, I suspect there is a
lot of truth in that story.
Well at those frequencies, its normally a temperature inversion which causes over the horizon signals to come in almost as strong as more local ones.
From your description, however, it seems you are complaining of no signals.
Another problem with working in prisons is filming. ITN got into
trouble when they filmed some keys!
On 28/07/2022 09:50, Andy Burns wrote:
SimonM wrote:
so any attack on the till would be pointless, and no big amounts had
to traverse the shop.
That's OK until the thieves break into the roofspace!
<https://dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780392>
The ingenuity of the criminal classes is astonishing. As a contractor in >various prisons I've been amazed at the clever tricks the cons get up
to. If only they'd used their brains to go straight...
Bill
On 29/07/2022 12:48, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well at those frequencies, its normally a temperature inversion which
causes
over the horizon signals to come in almost as strong as more local ones.
Often stronger.
From your description, however, it seems you are complaining of no
signals.
Or CCI wiping his reception.
Yes, I'll have to have a look and see what other transmitters in the
YO25 area also use 546 MHz like Belmont's COM4
and which could be picked
up by an aerial pointing at Belmont. Mind you, I've had reception with a
very off-axis transmitter in the past: when we lived just north of
Leyburn, with an aerial pointing eastwards to Bilsdale, I occasionally
got Belmont's PSB1 even though it's about 45 degrees off-axis (and over several hills). Lift is a funny thing.
On 29/07/2022 12:48, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well at those frequencies, its normally a temperature inversion which
causes
over the horizon signals to come in almost as strong as more local ones.
Often stronger.
From your description, however, it seems you are complaining of no
signals.
Or CCI wiping his reception.
Bill
"williamwright" <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote in message news:jki3giFo2lfU6@mid.individual.net...
On 29/07/2022 12:48, Brian Gaff wrote:
Well at those frequencies, its normally a temperature inversion which
causes
over the horizon signals to come in almost as strong as more local ones.
Often stronger.
From your description, however, it seems you are complaining of no
signals.
Or CCI wiping his reception.
Yes, I'll have to have a look and see what other transmitters in the YO25 area also use 546 MHz like Belmont's COM4 and which could be picked up by
an aerial pointing at Belmont. Mind you, I've had reception with a very off-axis transmitter in the past: when we lived just north of Leyburn,
with an aerial pointing eastwards to Bilsdale, I occasionally got
Belmont's PSB1 even though it's about 45 degrees off-axis (and over
several hills). Lift is a funny thing.
On 29/07/2022 16:02, NY wrote:
Yes, I'll have to have a look and see what other transmitters in the YO25
area also use 546 MHz like Belmont's COM4
It would be rather bad planning it there was one!
and which could be picked up by an aerial pointing at Belmont. Mind you,
I've had reception with a very off-axis transmitter in the past: when we
lived just north of Leyburn, with an aerial pointing eastwards to
Bilsdale, I occasionally got Belmont's PSB1 even though it's about 45
degrees off-axis (and over several hills). Lift is a funny thing.
It is indeed. Given your circumstances, with an aerial pointing south and receiving only a weak signal, and with hills in the way, it's much more likely that any CCI you get will be from distant txes to the south.
Why do I mention the hills, I hear you ask. There is a large estate of private houses in S Yorks which has to use Belmont. Reception is not line-of-south because there is high ground 2.5km to the south-east. It's interesting that when there's a lift the Dutch stations come in at great strength, appearing not to be impeded by the high ground. I surmise
(without direct evidence) that the ducted signals come from high up.
Bill
Its just reflection off of different densities of air though, and often controlled by the time of day on the path and indeed the weather conditions.
Yes but its very specific on channels which seems a little odd.
Brian
At the time of the "scorcchio" weather last week, it was said that the temperature and/or pressure might cause changes (worsenings) in TVIn doubt I always use :
reception. Is that still the case?
On Wed 27/07/2022 16:43, Mark Carver wrote:
On 27/07/2022 16:38, Scott wrote:
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops inYep, Heelas (aka John Lewis in new money) dept store in Reading
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
Swallows in Chesterfield
ISTR George Henry Lee in Liverpool as well (a.k.a. JLP.)
I misread this first time. I was thinking of the system in shops in
the old days where a tube containing money was sucked away to go to
the cashier, then a receipt was returned in the tube. Anyone remember
them?
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