This web page https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures-freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it here from Sandy Heath transmitter. Some recent press
articles suggest that the channel moves have all gone horribly wrong and
that BBC4 HD is likely to be missing for some time.  Anyone know what's really going on?
On Sun 10/07/2022 18:10, Clive Page wrote:
This web pageShould still be there but doesn't start until 19h00. BBC3HD is on 109.
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures- >freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it here from Sandy Heath transmitter. Some recent press
articles suggest that the channel moves have all gone horribly wrong and
that BBC4 HD is likely to be missing for some time. Anyone know what's
really going on?
This web page https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures-freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I can't find it
Sure i saw it after a retune the other day!..
19 miles from the old Heath!...
Clive Page wrote:
This web page
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures-freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it
It had to move from COM7 as that is now defunct, but PSB3 isn't ready
for xtra channels yet yet, so there's a placemarker on LCN106, don't
you get a MHEG message saying "Four HD will be back real soon now" OWTTE?
meanwhile SD or satellite ...
This web page https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures-freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it here from Sandy Heath transmitter. Some recent press
articles suggest that the channel moves have all gone horribly wrong and
that BBC4 HD is likely to be missing for some time. Anyone know what's really going on?
--
Clive Page
In article <taf1ge$1e7cj$1@dont-email.me>, Woody
<harrogate3@ntlworld.com> scribeth thus
On Sun 10/07/2022 18:10, Clive Page wrote:
This web pageShould still be there but doesn't start until 19h00. BBC3HD is on 109.
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures- >>freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it here from Sandy Heath transmitter. Some recent press
articles suggest that the channel moves have all gone horribly wrong and >>> that BBC4 HD is likely to be missing for some time. Anyone know what's
really going on?
Sure i saw it after a retune the other day!..
19 miles from the old Heath!...
--
Tony Sayer
Man is least himself when he talks in his own person.
Give him a keyboard, and he will reveal himself.
Clive Page wrote:
This web page
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures-freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it
It had to move from COM7 as that is now defunct, but PSB3 isn't ready for xtra channels yet yet, so there's a placemarker on LCN106, don't you get a MHEG message saying "Four HD will be back real soon now" OWTTE?
meanwhile SD or satellite ...
On 10/07/2022 20:10, Andy Burns wrote:
Clive Page wrote:This thread just goes to prove that *12 days* after BBC 4 HD ceased broadcasting on DTT, very few have actually noticed it's been replaced by nothing more than a placeholder caption for the time being
This web page
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures-freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it
It had to move from COM7 as that is now defunct, but PSB3 isn't ready for
xtra channels yet yet, so there's a placemarker on LCN106, don't you get
a MHEG message saying "Four HD will be back real soon now" OWTTE?
meanwhile SD or satellite ...
On 10/07/2022 20:10, Andy Burns wrote:
Clive Page wrote:This thread just goes to prove that *12 days* after BBC 4 HD ceased broadcasting on DTT, very few have actually noticed it's been replaced by nothing more than a placeholder caption for the time being
This web page
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures-freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it
It had to move from COM7 as that is now defunct, but PSB3 isn't ready for
xtra channels yet yet, so there's a placemarker on LCN106, don't you get
a MHEG message saying "Four HD will be back real soon now" OWTTE?
meanwhile SD or satellite ...
If they did they would not have allseed it up the place marker says
coming back soon, indeed there are a few like that at the moment. Also
there is still a blank where one of the CBS channels were saying service
has closed. Normally this would just vanish as have a number of the
others, but rather than doing an auto retune Samsungs TVs left a load of weird debris scattered about up in the 700s, which needed to be deleted manually.
Seems to me perhaps the channels were not all on com 7 that was being
turned off in some instances and some places. I'm increasingly hearing
the word Redirected or similar spoken when you tune to a certain channel,
and in one case Together TV, it actually downloads a stream from the Internet, while otherwise appearing to be a normal channel in the normal range, sigh.
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:jj22ijFpnk6U1@mid.individual.net...
On 10/07/2022 20:10, Andy Burns wrote:
Clive Page wrote:This thread just goes to prove that *12 days* after BBC 4 HD ceased
This web page
https://www.freeview.co.uk/help/service-updates/channel-changes-closures-freeview-june-2022
suggests that BBC4 HD should still be available on channel 106, but I
can't find it
It had to move from COM7 as that is now defunct, but PSB3 isn't ready
for xtra channels yet yet, so there's a placemarker on LCN106, don't you >>> get a MHEG message saying "Four HD will be back real soon now" OWTTE?
meanwhile SD or satellite ...
broadcasting on DTT, very few have actually noticed it's been replaced by
nothing more than a placeholder caption for the time being
And also that 12 days after COM7 ceased and BBC Four HD was due to start
on PSB3, it *still* hasn't appeared (*) - and the only information is that
it will return "soon". They haven't even deigned to give an approximate
date, even one that is covered by a "this date may slip" caveat. So we
don't know whether "soon" means next week, next month or next year.
It has been suggested that they are waiting for new equipment which then needs to be configured. How long has the demise of COM7 been known about,
and so how long has the need for new equipment to accommodate extra
channels such as BBC Four HD and regional variants of BBC One HD?
First rule of project planning anything: don't kill off the old "thing"
until its replacement is proved to be working. And if the "killing off"
date is non-negotiable, plan a lot of contingency in case of hardware lead times or software problems.
Maybe we have become too used to channel moves from one mux to another
which are seamless (maybe even with a small overlap) so having a gap needs
a lot of explanation.
Question: will BBC Four HD appear on PSB3 before the channel gets
converted to online-only and ceases to broadcast on terrestrial or
satellite? ;-)
(*) Apart from as an entry in the "list of channels on this mux" table and
as an MHEG caption.
If they cut all the crap mono commercial radio stuff, and the plus ones and some of the very similar shopping channels etc, there seems to be no reason why both bbc 3 and 4 should not remain on Freeview. Also some channels have poped up as extra this or that Extra, showing the sam crap as the others.
Why are there now radio stations pretending to be TV channels as well, that has to be one of the most stupid ideas I've heard of.
Brian
It had to move from COM7 as that is now defunct, but PSB3 isn't ready for xtra channels yet yet, so there's a placemarker on LCN106, don't you get a MHEG message saying "Four HD will be back real soon now" OWTTE?
meanwhile SD or satellite ...
Would it not have been better to delay the switch off till hd versions were able to switch?COM 7 was only ever a temporary mux, it was originally planned to close
First rule of project planning anything: don't kill off the oldIt *possibly* depends when the go ahead to provide the replacement was
"thing" until its replacement is proved to be working. And if the
"killing off" date is non-negotiable, plan a lot of contingency in
case of hardware lead times or software problems.
Why are there now radio stations pretending to be TV channels as well, that has to be one of the most stupid ideas I've heard of.
"Mark Carver" <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:jj22ijFpnk6U1@mid.individual.net...
This thread just goes to prove that *12 days* after BBC 4 HD ceased
broadcasting on DTT, very few have actually noticed it's been replaced
by nothing more than a placeholder caption for the time being
And also that 12 days after COM7 ceased and BBC Four HD was due to start
on PSB3, it *still* hasn't appeared (*) - and the only information is
that it will return "soon". They haven't even deigned to give an
approximate date, even one that is covered by a "this date may slip"
caveat. So we don't know whether "soon" means next week, next month or
next year.
It has been suggested that they are waiting for new equipment which then needs to be configured. How long has the demise of COM7 been known
about, and so how long has the need for new equipment to accommodate
extra channels such as BBC Four HD and regional variants of BBC One HD?
First rule of project planning anything: don't kill off the old "thing"
until its replacement is proved to be working. And if the "killing off"
date is non-negotiable, plan a lot of contingency in case of hardware
lead times or software problems.
Maybe we have become too used to channel moves from one mux to another
which are seamless (maybe even with a small overlap) so having a gap
needs a lot of explanation.
Question: will BBC Four HD appear on PSB3 before the channel gets
converted to online-only and ceases to broadcast on terrestrial or
satellite? ;-)
Would it not have been better to delay the switch off till hd versions
were able to switch? I noticed these captions all over the place. We have seemingly lost a lot of channels we might have liked to keep, and yet
still retained crap we might have wished to lose.
On 11/07/2022 09:31, Brian Gaff wrote:
Why are there now radio stations pretending to be TV channels as well,
that
has to be one of the most stupid ideas I've heard of.
What do you mean? For example?
Have you noticed that iPlayer trailers for new programmes never say when
they will be broadcast and on which channel, just when it is available
from iPlayer? Is this part of an evil plan to wean us off old-fashioned
steam television?
Have you noticed that iPlayer trailers for new programmes never say when
they will be broadcast and on which channel, just when it is available
from iPlayer? Is this part of an evil plan to wean us off old-fashioned
steam television?
Partly that, partly that department not actually bothering to check the broadcast dates?
On 11/07/2022 11:11, Max Demian wrote:
Have you noticed that iPlayer trailers for new programmes never say when
they will be broadcast and on which channel, just when it is available
from iPlayer? Is this part of an evil plan to wean us off old-fashioned
steam television?
Does anyone actually go off and watch them online? I wait for them to
be broadcast.
On 11/07/2022 16:58, MB wrote:
On 11/07/2022 11:11, Max Demian wrote:
Have you noticed that iPlayer trailers for new programmes never say when >>> they will be broadcast and on which channel, just when it is available
from iPlayer? Is this part of an evil plan to wean us off old-fashioned
steam television?
Does anyone actually go off and watch them online? I wait for them to
be broadcast.
I consume most TV on line these days, rather than 'live' or off PVR
I tried to put something on iPlayer for my wife the other night and not
only getting to the wanted programme but finding the particular episode
took so long that she got fed up and told me to turn it off - and I know
what I am doing.
On 12/07/2022 07:16, Woody wrote:
I tried to put something on iPlayer for my wife the other night and not
only getting to the wanted programme but finding the particular episode
took so long that she got fed up and told me to turn it off - and I know
what I am doing.
I wonder if at some time in the future someone will rediscover a
system where switch on TV and short time later press "1" and get BBC1
(other channels are available). Rather than messing around with slow, user-unfriendly streaming systems.
the truth is that the people that watch TV most are generally the older end of
the viewership [...]
DVD 'Top Menus'. It doesn't' help that every disc is different.
If only there was player that stripped away all of the crap and gave the choices in the same plain unified manner, I might stand a chance training her.
She doesn't have the dexterity to enter three digit EPG numbers, two digit are
hit and miss
I wonder if at some time in the future someone will rediscover a system
where switch on TV and short time later press "1" and get BBC1 (other >channels are available). Rather than messing around with slow, >user-unfriendly streaming systems.
On 12/07/2022 07:16, Woody wrote:
I tried to put something on iPlayer for my wife the other night and not
only getting to the wanted programme but finding the particular episode
took so long that she got fed up and told me to turn it off - and I know
what I am doing.
I wonder if at some time in the future someone will rediscover a system
where switch on TV and short time later press "1" and get BBC1 (other >channels are available). Rather than messing around with slow, >user-unfriendly streaming systems.
On 12/07/2022 07:16, Woody wrote:
I think the one thing we are all missing here is the viewing public.
Everyone in government and especially the BBC seem to think everyone
has access to broadband and a smart TV or interface. In fact the truth
is that the people that watch TV most are generally the older end of
the viewership who don't have the money to spend or the time to learn
to drive broadband viewing.
I tried to put something on iPlayer for my wife the other night and
not only getting to the wanted programme but finding the particular
episode took so long that she got fed up and told me to turn it off -
and I know what I am doing.
Surely it's not just us old folks who have trouble. My wife and I also watch few TV programmes live: where we can we schedule them for our PVR
which has 3 TB disc which seems ample for playing back later, sometimes weeks later.  But we occasionally miss something and so have to resort
to the iPlayer (or equivalent for other broadcasters). Our Humax PVR
isn't all that easy to operate, but it's usually possible to find what
we want among a few dozen previously recorded programmes within
half-a-minute or so.  And then it just works, and I can pause or rewind
if say the doorbell or phone rings.
But this thread started because some programmes that I had scheduled to
be recorded on the Humax on BBC4 HD simply didn't record, as the
authorities had taken them away from that channel. Once I realised I
could use the series-link to get the episodes recorded on SD, but I
didn't know until too late for one or two.
But my main point is that all of the internet players have simply awful
user interfaces: the sequence goes something like this.
Select players, wait 10 seconds, select iPlayer (for example), wait 10 seconds, choose the user (me), wait 10 seconds, say that yes I do have a
TV licence, wait 10 seconds, say that yes I am over 18 years old, wait
10 seconds, then finally get to the programme choice screens. Using
search involves entering letters from a grid, via the arrow keys on the remote control, then after a longish wait one finds the right series,
then wait for some time for all the icons to turn into images, then
scroll down and across to find the right episode. Then wait another 10 seconds or so, and press play, and them maybe something will happen.
And then though there are pause and rewind options, they work very
slowly, and clunkily, and it's really vary hard to get back to the point where one stopped watching.  Altogether the internet player experience
is vastly inferior.  I can't believe it's just me that finds it so.
On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 07:42:04 +0100, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
I wonder if at some time in the future someone will rediscover a system
where switch on TV and short time later press "1" and get BBC1 (other
channels are available). Rather than messing around with slow,
user-unfriendly streaming systems.
Channels? Some time in the future we won't watch channels; we'll watch programmes. I appreciate that for some people the future isn't quite
here yet, but that's the way it's going. It's only a matter of time.
I don't remember it ever being normal procedure to walk into a
bookshop or library and wait for somebody to choose a book and then
read it to me. If you think about it, that would be just daft. It's
only because of the limitations of the available technology that we
ever did the equivalent with moving pictures, and we'll wonder one day
how we endured it. But we're now making progress towards moving
pictures having the same flexibility as books, and as far as I'm
concerned it can't happen soon enough.
I think the one thing we are all missing here is the viewing public. Everyone in government and especially the BBC seem to think everyone has access to broadband and a smart TV or interface. In fact the truth is that the people that watch TV most aregenerally the older end of the viewership who don't have the money to spend or the time to learn to drive broadband viewing.
I tried to put something on iPlayer for my wife the other night and not only getting to the wanted programme but finding the particular episode took so long that she got fed up and told me to turn it off - and I know what I am doing.
But my main point is that all of the internet players have simply awful
user interfaces: the sequence goes something like this.
Select players, wait 10 seconds, select iPlayer (for example), wait 10 seconds, choose the user (me), wait 10 seconds, say that yes I do have a
TV licence, wait 10 seconds, say that yes I am over 18 years old, wait 10 seconds, then finally get to the programme choice screens. Using search involves entering letters from a grid, via the arrow keys on the remote control, then after a longish wait one finds the right series, then wait
for some time for all the icons to turn into images, then scroll down and across to find the right episode. Then wait another 10 seconds or so, and press play, and them maybe something will happen. And then though there
are pause and rewind options, they work very slowly, and clunkily, and
it's really vary hard to get back to the point where one stopped watching. Altogether the internet player experience is vastly inferior. I can't believe it's just me that finds it so.
On 12/07/2022 07:42, MB wrote:
On 12/07/2022 07:16, Woody wrote:
I tried to put something on iPlayer for my wife the other night and not
only getting to the wanted programme but finding the particular episode
took so long that she got fed up and told me to turn it off - and I know >>> what I am doing.
I wonder if at some time in the future someone will rediscover a
system where switch on TV and short time later press "1" and get BBC1
(other channels are available). Rather than messing around with slow,
user-unfriendly streaming systems.
I agree, it's the interface that's the problem. I often hit the wrong
icon, and snakes and ladders style slide all the way back to the start.
My 91 year old mum is totally baffled by the iplayer menu, and also DVD
'Top Menus'. It doesn't' help that every disc is different.
If only there was player that stripped away all of the crap and gave the choices in the same plain unified manner, I might stand a chance
training her.
I've given up with attempting to instruct her on iplayer.
She doesn't have the dexterity to enter three digit EPG numbers, two
digit are hit and miss
In both cases I will start off a programme or a disc for her, and
fortunately once viewed if she switches off everything, and back on, the telly reverts to a default state of being a telly !
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 12/07/2022 07:42, MB wrote:With my mother,who died a year older than yours currently is, I deleted all Freeview channels except for four she usually watched. I then purchased a Doro simplified remote that had a big channel up and down button. That enabled her to simply scroll round the 4 channels. Perhaps that might help you?
On 12/07/2022 07:16, Woody wrote:I agree, it's the interface that's the problem. I often hit the wrong
I tried to put something on iPlayer for my wife the other night and not >>>> only getting to the wanted programme but finding the particular episode >>>> took so long that she got fed up and told me to turn it off - and I know >>>> what I am doing.I wonder if at some time in the future someone will rediscover a
system where switch on TV and short time later press "1" and get BBC1
(other channels are available). Rather than messing around with slow,
user-unfriendly streaming systems.
icon, and snakes and ladders style slide all the way back to the start.
My 91 year old mum is totally baffled by the iplayer menu, and also DVD
'Top Menus'. It doesn't' help that every disc is different.
If only there was player that stripped away all of the crap and gave the
choices in the same plain unified manner, I might stand a chance
training her.
I've given up with attempting to instruct her on iplayer.
She doesn't have the dexterity to enter three digit EPG numbers, two
digit are hit and miss
In both cases I will start off a programme or a disc for her, and
fortunately once viewed if she switches off everything, and back on, the
telly reverts to a default state of being a telly !
With my mother,who died a year older than yours currently is, I deleted all Freeview channels except for four she usually watched. I then purchased a Doro simplified remote that had a big channel up and down button. That enabled her to simply scroll round the 4 channels. Perhaps that might help you?
No, it's not just you. You also forgot the extra bit of fun: on a commercial channel you have to sit through interminable adverts every so often.
That sounds like my main TV. It can't stream.
On 12/07/2022 18:06, Tweed wrote:
With my mother,who died a year older than yours currently is, I
deleted all
Freeview channels except for four she usually watched. I then purchased a
Doro simplified remote that had a big channel up and down button. That
enabled her to simply scroll round the 4 channels. Perhaps that might
help
you?
I am quite capable of using well designed devices.
Some players pop up a huge graphic as soon as you pause the playing,
which is a real problem if the reason for stopping is to examine the
picture (all of it, without an overlay).
most TV set firmware is only supported for a year or so at most
On 12/07/2022 17:43, NY wrote:
No, it's not just you. You also forgot the extra bit of fun: on a commercial >> channel you have to sit through interminable adverts every so often.
I don't have SKY but staying with friends who do have it, I just watch >Freeview. Partly because I find Sky's interface verypoor (perhaps OK if
you are using it every day but never see anything there that I want to
watch.
MB wrote:
most TV set firmware is only supported for a year or so at most
my assmunge got updates from 2013 to 2019, most of them removed features, it >still manages to run the main apps (iplayer, itv hub, all4, netflix, prime, >youtube) if somewhat lumpily compared to and androidTV stick.
you can get the cheapest Fire TV stick for only 17.99ukp, and see for yourself how well it compares with the streaming features built in to a typical TV set.
Roderick Stewart wrote:
you can get the cheapest Fire TV stick for only 17.99ukp, and see for
yourself how well it compares with the streaming features built in to a
typical TV set.
Oh, I'm well aware that dongles work better than built-in apps, but I don't >really want to buy into Alexa
Andy Burns wrote:
Oh, I'm well aware that dongles work better than built-in apps, but I don't >> really want to buy into Alexa
You don't have to. Just ignore it. Even the cheapest Amazon TV stick
now has a little button with a picture of a microphone, which I assume
is supposed to give access to the Alexa system, but I never use it.
The device is, however, the easiest way to access the Channel 4I was a bit puzzled why I couldn't find the All4 app in the store from the dongle, in the end I found a convoluted way to transfer the .apk file from my tablet to the dongle, but it was a waste of time really. The app runs but assumes it should be in portrait mode, also the F1 never seems to make it into All4, so I continue to record that off air.
catchup service
The device is, however, the easiest way to access the Channel 4I was a bit puzzled why I couldn't find the All4 app in the store from the >dongle, in the end I found a convoluted way to transfer the .apk file from my >tablet to the dongle, but it was a waste of time really. The app runs but >assumes it should be in portrait mode, also the F1 never seems to make it into >All4, so I continue to record that off air.
catchup service
I wonder if at some time in the future someone will rediscover a system
where switch on TV and short time later press "1" and get BBC1 (other
channels are available). Rather than messing around with slow,
user-unfriendly streaming systems.
Channels? Some time in the future we won't watch channels; we'll watch
programmes. I appreciate that for some people the future isn't quite
here yet, but that's the way it's going. It's only a matter of time.
I don't remember it ever being normal procedure to walk into a
bookshop or library and wait for somebody to choose a book and then
read it to me. If you think about it, that would be just daft. It's
only because of the limitations of the available technology that we
ever did the equivalent with moving pictures, and we'll wonder one day
how we endured it. But we're now making progress towards moving
pictures having the same flexibility as books, and as far as I'm
concerned it can't happen soon enough.
Having to choose from the entire library of books/programmes all the
time is daunting; it's nicer to be spoon fed items week by week.
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