Just watched the Parkinson show on BBC4, and was interested (and quite
pleased) that they still broadcast it with the 4:3 flag (on FreeView
anyway), rather than with black side padding. (A _few_ other prog.s - I
think even on channels other than BBC4 - do it too, though not all - in particular horror's TOS transmissions aren't even pillarboxed, but are
cropped, and _some_ of BBC4's music archive material ditto, which just
looks silly as the performers were often in close-up anyway.)

I wonder why they _do_ still use the 4:3 flag: presumably adding side
blacks wouldn't make much difference to bandwidth, since I can't imagine
a large black rectangle (or two) would need many bits to code it.

So the only reason I can think of is to avoid postage-stamping on _some_ 4:3-set/set-top-box combinations - and I wonder what proportion of
_those_ remains in use; and these days I mostly get the impression that concessions to old kit are considered deeply un-"cool" anyway.

I say I'm pleased to see it, (a) because I _do_ like to see concessions
to owners of old kit (especially where doing so _doesn't_ hurt owners of
more modern kit), and (b) because it's still using a part of the
standard that would otherwise not be used, and would get forgotten about
(while still occupying space, however tiny).

What do others think?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"I do not feel obliged to believe that the God who endowed me with sense, reason, and intellect intends me to forego their use". - Gallileo Gallilei

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 16/06/2022 20:49, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Just watched the Parkinson show on BBC4, and was interested (and quite pleased) that they still broadcast it with the 4:3 flag (on FreeView
anyway), rather than with black side padding. (A _few_ other prog.s - I
think even on channels other than BBC4 - do it too, though not all - in particular horror's TOS transmissions aren't even pillarboxed, but are cropped, and _some_ of BBC4's music archive material ditto, which just
looks silly as the performers were often in close-up anyway.)

I wonder why they _do_ still use the 4:3 flag: presumably adding side
blacks wouldn't make much difference to bandwidth, since I can't imagine
a large black rectangle (or two) would need many bits to code it.

So the only reason I can think of is to avoid postage-stamping on _some_ 4:3-set/set-top-box combinations - and I wonder what proportion of
_those_ remains in use; and these days I mostly get the impression that concessions to old kit are considered deeply un-"cool" anyway.

I say I'm pleased to see it, (a) because I _do_ like to see concessions
to owners of old kit (especially where doing so _doesn't_ hurt owners of
more modern kit), and (b) because it's still using a part of the
standard that would otherwise not be used, and would get forgotten about (while still occupying space, however tiny).

What do others think?

if the 4:3 show is filling a 16:9 frame and your tv is squashing it to
the right shape i'd assume that the quality would be better - more
horizontal lines of picture info?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 22 Jun 2022 at 17:25:30, the dog from that film you saw <dsb@REMOVETHISbtinternet.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):

On 16/06/2022 20:49, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

Just watched the Parkinson show on BBC4, and was interested (and
quite pleased) that they still broadcast it with the 4:3 flag (on
FreeView anyway), rather than with black side padding. (A _few_ other >>prog.s - I think even on channels other than BBC4 - do it too, though
not all - in particular horror's TOS transmissions aren't even >>pillarboxed, but are cropped, and _some_ of BBC4's music archive
material ditto, which just looks silly as the performers were often
in close-up anyway.)
I wonder why they _do_ still use the 4:3 flag: presumably adding
side blacks wouldn't make much difference to bandwidth, since I can't >>imagine a large black rectangle (or two) would need many bits to code it.
So the only reason I can think of is to avoid postage-stamping on
_some_ 4:3-set/set-top-box combinations - and I wonder what
proportion of _those_ remains in use; and these days I mostly get the >>impression that concessions to old kit are considered deeply
un-"cool" anyway.
I say I'm pleased to see it, (a) because I _do_ like to see
concessions to owners of old kit (especially where doing so _doesn't_
hurt owners of more modern kit), and (b) because it's still using a
part of the standard that would otherwise not be used, and would get >>forgotten about (while still occupying space, however tiny).
What do others think?

if the 4:3 show is filling a 16:9 frame and your tv is squashing it to
the right shape i'd assume that the quality would be better - more
horizontal lines of picture info?

My SD widescreen TV is showing it full height but correct aspect ratio,
i. e. "pillarboxed" or with black bits either side. However, I know it
is being broadcast with the 4:3 flag, rather than encoded as
pillarboxed; if I turn subtitles on (there's obviously a processing
limit in the old TV), it fills the screen (thus squashed, or stretched horizontally). Some other channels that _do_ actually broadcast old 4:3 material _pre-pillarboxed_, I can turn subtitles on or off and the
picture doesn't change (and they sometimes have their DOG in the black
area, so I _know_ it's pre-pillarboxed anyway).

So I'm getting the same number of horizontal lines (presumably 576i),
but possibly more horizontal _pixels_ per line (which is maybe what you
meant).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Astaire was, of course, peerless, but it's worth remembering that Rogers does everything he does, only backwards and in high heels. - Barry Norman in Radio Times 5-11 January 2013

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message news:VnaVeAgsk4qiFwiX@a.a...

Just watched the Parkinson show on BBC4, and was interested (and quite pleased) that they still broadcast it with the 4:3 flag (on FreeView
anyway), rather than with black side padding. (A _few_ other prog.s - I
think even on channels other than BBC4 - do it too, though not all - in particular horror's TOS transmissions aren't even pillarboxed, but are cropped, and _some_ of BBC4's music archive material ditto, which just
looks silly as the performers were often in close-up anyway.)

I wonder why they _do_ still use the 4:3 flag: presumably adding side
blacks wouldn't make much difference to bandwidth, since I can't imagine a large black rectangle (or two) would need many bits to code it.

So the only reason I can think of is to avoid postage-stamping on _some_ 4:3-set/set-top-box combinations - and I wonder what proportion of _those_ remains in use; and these days I mostly get the impression that
concessions to old kit are considered deeply un-"cool" anyway.

I say I'm pleased to see it, (a) because I _do_ like to see concessions to owners of old kit (especially where doing so _doesn't_ hurt owners of more modern kit), and (b) because it's still using a part of the standard that would otherwise not be used, and would get forgotten about (while still occupying space, however tiny).

What do others think?

I can imagine repeats channels such as Yesterday and Drama getting it right, but BBC seem to have a policy of always broadcasting 4:3 archive programmes
as 16:9 with black bars, which means the programme is downscaled to 544x576
and the rest of the 720 pixel width is wasted on black bars.

Maybe BBC Four has a different policy to BBC One and Two.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 23 Jun 2022 at 14:22:24, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):

"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message >news:VnaVeAgsk4qiFwiX@a.a...

Just watched the Parkinson show on BBC4, and was interested (and
quite pleased) that they still broadcast it with the 4:3 flag (on
FreeView anyway), rather than with black side padding. (A _few_ other >>prog.s - I think even on channels other than BBC4 - do it too, though
not all - in particular horror's TOS transmissions aren't even >>pillarboxed, but are cropped, and _some_ of BBC4's music archive
material ditto, which just looks silly as the performers were often
in close-up anyway.)

I wonder why they _do_ still use the 4:3 flag: presumably adding side >>blacks wouldn't make much difference to bandwidth, since I can't
imagine a large black rectangle (or two) would need many bits to code


So the only reason I can think of is to avoid postage-stamping on
_some_ 4:3-set/set-top-box combinations - and I wonder what
proportion of _those_ remains in use; and these days I mostly get the >>impression that concessions to old kit are considered deeply
un-"cool" anyway.

I say I'm pleased to see it, (a) because I _do_ like to see
concessions to owners of old kit (especially where doing so _doesn't_
hurt owners of more modern kit), and (b) because it's still using a
part of the standard that would otherwise not be used, and would get >>forgotten about (while still occupying space, however tiny).

What do others think?

I can imagine repeats channels such as Yesterday and Drama getting it
right, but BBC seem to have a policy of always broadcasting 4:3 archive >programmes as 16:9 with black bars, which means the programme is
downscaled to 544x576 and the rest of the 720 pixel width is wasted on
black bars.

Maybe BBC Four has a different policy to BBC One and Two.

I hadn't thought it might be a channel difference. I don't think so
though, because it's BBC4 that seems to have the majority of the music
archive stuff (TOTP from say 70s and 80s), and they tend to crop that to pseudo-WS (so losing not only resolution - as we only get the
vertically-middle stripe - but some actual picture altogether).
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"There is no such thing as bad weather - only the wrong clothes." - Billy Connolly, in his World Tour of England, Ireland and Wales, 4 March 2002 (BBC1).

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)