• Radio reception in Cumbria

    From Scott@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 21 09:54:52 2022
    I visited Carlisle during the week. I found there was no BBC national
    DAB reception, which seems odd as I see it is broadcast from Sandale,
    not that far away. BBC Radio Cumbria is available at 64 kbps. I
    believe this is DAB+. Is this the only BBC station to broadcast on
    DAB+?

    I then tried FM and found Radio 4 and Radio Scotland both available.
    However, Radio Scotland seemed to be distorted. I see both are
    broadcast at high power (250kW) from Sandale. At first I thought
    Radio Scotland must be beamed north, but Carlisle is north of Sandale.

    I assume in former times, Scottish Home Service was intended for
    Scotland only and North Home Service for England only and may have
    been beamed accordingly, but now that Radio 4 is a national service,
    this will no longer apply. Do they try to keep Radio Scotland out of
    England :-)

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  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to Scott on Sat May 21 15:10:44 2022
    On 21/05/2022 09:54, Scott wrote:
    I visited Carlisle during the week. I found there was no BBC national
    DAB reception, which seems odd as I see it is broadcast from Sandale,
    not that far away.

    That's very odd. I can't explain why you couldn't get any BBC national
    DAB reception, was this moving about on the car radio, or a portable
    radio where you were staying ?
    BBC Radio Cumbria is available at 64 kbps. I
    believe this is DAB+. Is this the only BBC station to broadcast on
    DAB+?
    No. BBC Radios Jersey and Guernsey are the other two in DAB+ at present

    I then tried FM and found Radio 4 and Radio Scotland both available.
    However, Radio Scotland seemed to be distorted. I see both are
    broadcast at high power (250kW) from Sandale. At first I thought
    Radio Scotland must be beamed north, but Carlisle is north of Sandale.
    Yep, Radio Scotland is directional to the north only, though quite
    frankly I've found it's just as 'receivable' south of Sandale, as the
    other services

    Do they try to keep Radio Scotland out of
    England :-)

    mb21 is your friend http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=66&pageid=4122

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  • From williamwright@21:1/5 to Scott on Sat May 21 18:48:03 2022
    On 21/05/2022 09:54, Scott wrote:
    I visited Carlisle during the week. I found there was no BBC national
    DAB reception, which seems odd as I see it is broadcast from Sandale,
    not that far away.


    Shurely some mistake?

    Bill

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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to mark.carver@invalid.invalid on Mon May 23 21:45:18 2022
    On Sat, 21 May 2022 15:10:44 +0100, Mark Carver
    <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 21/05/2022 09:54, Scott wrote:
    I visited Carlisle during the week. I found there was no BBC national
    DAB reception, which seems odd as I see it is broadcast from Sandale,
    not that far away.

    That's very odd. I can't explain why you couldn't get any BBC national
    DAB reception, was this moving about on the car radio, or a portable
    radio where you were staying ?

    It was in the ibis hotel with the radio in the window ledge.

    BBC Radio Cumbria is available at 64 kbps. I
    believe this is DAB+. Is this the only BBC station to broadcast on
    DAB+?
    No. BBC Radios Jersey and Guernsey are the other two in DAB+ at present

    I then tried FM and found Radio 4 and Radio Scotland both available.
    However, Radio Scotland seemed to be distorted. I see both are
    broadcast at high power (250kW) from Sandale. At first I thought
    Radio Scotland must be beamed north, but Carlisle is north of Sandale.
    Yep, Radio Scotland is directional to the north only, though quite
    frankly I've found it's just as 'receivable' south of Sandale, as the
    other services

    Do they try to keep Radio Scotland out of
    England :-)

    mb21 is your friend >http://tx.mb21.co.uk/gallery/gallerypage.php?txid=66&pageid=4122

    I have looked but I could not find a map specifically for Radio
    Scotland. However, looking at the FM map, Carlisle is north of
    Sandale so why is it outside the beam? I am confused (again!).

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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to wrightsaerials@f2s.com on Mon May 23 22:29:33 2022
    On Sat, 21 May 2022 18:48:03 +0100, williamwright
    <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:

    On 21/05/2022 09:54, Scott wrote:
    I visited Carlisle during the week. I found there was no BBC national
    DAB reception, which seems odd as I see it is broadcast from Sandale,
    not that far away.

    Shurely some mistake?

    That's what I thought too. I tried a rescan and placing the radio on
    the window ledge.

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  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to Scott on Tue May 24 08:11:17 2022
    On 23/05/2022 21:45, Scott wrote:
    That's very odd. I can't explain why you couldn't get any BBC national
    DAB reception, was this moving about on the car radio, or a portable
    radio where you were staying ?
    It was in the ibis hotel with the radio in the window ledge.
    And which way was the window facing ? Towards or away from
    Sandale/Caldbeck ?
    How high up were you, etc etc  ?
    Metal film windows ?

    I have looked but I could not find a map specifically for Radio
    Scotland. However, looking at the FM map, Carlisle is north of

    Sandale so why is it outside the beam? I am confused (again!).

    See above !

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  • From MB@21:1/5 to Scott on Tue May 24 08:56:21 2022
    On 24/05/2022 08:40, Scott wrote:
    Problem 2 was that Radio Scotland on FM was distorted when Radio 4 was
    not, coming from the same transmitter. I understand the Radio
    Scotland signal is beamed north, but the map shows that Carlisle is
    north of Sandale so I don't see how Carlisle can be outside the beam.

    If Radio Scotland is beamed North then could it be there is more signal
    being reflected / scattered back from the hills North of there?

    We had a VHF FM relay station where a mistake was made with the antenna
    feeds so most power was being beamed in the wrong direction at some
    nearby hills. It was some time before it was realised why the
    distortion from multi-path was higher than expected!

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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to mark.carver@invalid.invalid on Tue May 24 08:40:41 2022
    On Tue, 24 May 2022 08:11:17 +0100, Mark Carver
    <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/05/2022 21:45, Scott wrote:
    That's very odd. I can't explain why you couldn't get any BBC national
    DAB reception, was this moving about on the car radio, or a portable
    radio where you were staying ?
    It was in the ibis hotel with the radio in the window ledge.
    And which way was the window facing ? Towards or away from
    Sandale/Caldbeck ?
    How high up were you, etc etc  ?
    Metal film windows ?

    I don't know but I accept reception conditions were difficult. I
    think it is only the second time I have ever been able to find BBC
    National on a scan.

    I have looked but I could not find a map specifically for Radio
    Scotland. However, looking at the FM map, Carlisle is north of

    Sandale so why is it outside the beam? I am confused (again!).

    See above !

    No, problem 1 was the lack of DAB.

    Problem 2 was that Radio Scotland on FM was distorted when Radio 4 was
    not, coming from the same transmitter. I understand the Radio
    Scotland signal is beamed north, but the map shows that Carlisle is
    north of Sandale so I don't see how Carlisle can be outside the beam..

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  • From Scott@21:1/5 to newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk on Tue May 24 10:27:37 2022
    On Tue, 24 May 2022 08:40:41 +0100, Scott
    <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

    On Tue, 24 May 2022 08:11:17 +0100, Mark Carver
    <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/05/2022 21:45, Scott wrote:
    That's very odd. I can't explain why you couldn't get any BBC national >>>> DAB reception, was this moving about on the car radio, or a portable
    radio where you were staying ?
    It was in the ibis hotel with the radio in the window ledge.
    And which way was the window facing ? Towards or away from
    Sandale/Caldbeck ?
    How high up were you, etc etc  ?
    Metal film windows ?

    I don't know but I accept reception conditions were difficult. I
    think it is only the second time I have ever been able to find BBC
    National on a scan.

    Should read - this is only the second time I have ever been *unable*
    to find BBC National in a scan.

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  • From charles@21:1/5 to Scott on Tue May 24 11:51:55 2022
    In article <hm2p8h12863r676q9nf133gq0iefbfn329@4ax.com>,
    Scott <newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    On Tue, 24 May 2022 08:11:17 +0100, Mark Carver
    <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 23/05/2022 21:45, Scott wrote:
    That's very odd. I can't explain why you couldn't get any BBC national >>> DAB reception, was this moving about on the car radio, or a portable
    radio where you were staying ?
    It was in the ibis hotel with the radio in the window ledge.
    And which way was the window facing ? Towards or away from
    Sandale/Caldbeck ?
    How high up were you, etc etc ?
    Metal film windows ?

    I don't know but I accept reception conditions were difficult. I
    think it is only the second time I have ever been able to find BBC
    National on a scan.

    I have looked but I could not find a map specifically for Radio
    Scotland. However, looking at the FM map, Carlisle is north of

    Sandale so why is it outside the beam? I am confused (again!).

    See above !

    No, problem 1 was the lack of DAB.

    Problem 2 was that Radio Scotland on FM was distorted when Radio 4 was
    not, coming from the same transmitter. I understand the Radio
    Scotland signal is beamed north, but the map shows that Carlisle is
    north of Sandale so I don't see how Carlisle can be outside the beam..

    Not the same transmitter. Same site, though. Could be a fault at Radio Scotland? Probably nothing to do with the transmitter Or, because you
    were ouside the main beam of the service, you were getting multpath
    reception.

    --
    from KT24 in Surrey, England
    "I'd rather die of exhaustion than die of boredom" Thomas Carlyle

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  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to charles on Tue May 24 15:37:11 2022
    On 24/05/2022 11:51, charles wrote:

    Not the same transmitter. Same site, though. Could be a fault at Radio Scotland? Probably nothing to do with the transmitter Or, because you
    were ouside the main beam of the service, you were getting multpath reception.

    According to Ofcom's Tech Parameters, the ERP of R Scotland FM towards
    Carlisle (about 45 degs ETN from Sandale) is only 1.5dB down on max HP
    ERP, and is 0dB down in the vertical plane.

    In other words, bugger all attenuation in Carlisle's direction, so about
    180 kW ERP going that way..

    Compare with BBC Radio Cumbria FM, which is 3dB down in Carlisle's
    direction on its 15 kW ERP,  so 7.5 kW

    In other words, in Carlisle, Radio Scotland is probably about 10 dB
    stronger than Radio Cumbria

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  • From Mark Carver@21:1/5 to Scott on Wed May 25 15:13:49 2022
    On 23/05/2022 21:45, Scott wrote:

    It was in the ibis hotel with the radio in the window ledge.

    LOL. I stupidly looked up the hotel to see photos of it, and didn't
    realise I was still logged into my Acor account on the PC, so I keep
    getting nagged now by them to complete my booking for a stay there !

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  • From williamwright@21:1/5 to Mark Carver on Wed May 25 21:10:21 2022
    On 25/05/2022 15:13, Mark Carver wrote:
    On 23/05/2022 21:45, Scott wrote:

    It was in the ibis hotel with the radio in the window ledge.

    LOL. I stupidly looked up the hotel to see photos of it, and didn't
    realise I was still logged into my Acor account on the PC, so I keep
    getting nagged now by them to complete my booking for a stay there !

    What i can't understand is why it5 is that after you've bought something
    you start getting adverts for it! I'm not likely to get another fucker am I?

    Bill

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  • From Max Demian@21:1/5 to williamwright on Thu May 26 11:29:46 2022
    On 25/05/2022 21:10, williamwright wrote:
    On 25/05/2022 15:13, Mark Carver wrote:
    On 23/05/2022 21:45, Scott wrote:

    It was in the ibis hotel with the radio in the window ledge.

    LOL. I stupidly looked up the hotel to see photos of it, and didn't
    realise I was still logged into my Acor account on the PC, so I keep
    getting nagged now by them to complete my booking for a stay there !

    What i can't understand is why it5 is that after you've bought something
    you start getting adverts for it! I'm not likely to get another fucker
    am I?

    I don't know why Amazon has decided that I run a school or business on
    the basis that a year ago I bought two, TWO, 12V power supplies.

    (I'm sure I've missed things I might have bought because Amazon inundate
    me with adverting emails.)

    --
    Max Demian

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