I am asking this question here as many contributors to this newsgroup
have good knowledge of radio communications. Here's the story.

SMETS 2 gas / electric meters communicate via 400MHz bad,( Arqiva's
allocation I think) to an access point (somewhere or other). The
meters are "programmed" by the utility company to connect to the WAP
access point , every now and then, to send usage data to the Data Communications Company (DCC) for billing use and for use by the user
with a mobile phone app.

However to set up the meters the utility company must be able to
communicate with the meters at the time of installation. (Octopus web
FAQ has examples of the sequence of commands to set up the meters).

My SMETS 2 meters used to work fine, in that the in house display
(IHD) showed meter readings, usage, tariff and supplier, and the
utility company could take meter readings and got the billing correct. (Hooray!!). All was ticketyboo until June 2021 when the IHD lost
communication with the meters.

The end result of the diagnosis of the problem is that the meters had
also lost communication with the DCC. A replacement communication
unit was fitted to the electric meter but the meters still don't
communicate with the DCC. There are leds on the comms unit which, the 'engineer' who came to look at the problem (last week, 8.5 months
after I reported the problem) said was indicating it was trying to
poll the WAP access point.

The 'engineer' had no sort of any radio test equipment but made the
observation that as the meters were not in an outside meter cabinet
the radio waves couldn't get to the meters and it was a common
problem. Even though my next door neighbour has SMETS 2 meters that
have communicate properly, for over a year, in identical places in an
identical house (I know there may be other non visible / obvious
factors that could attenuate the signal). I am now left in the
situation with failing meter communications and no-one will take on responsibility for progressing the problem to a resolution.

I cannot believe that the current SMETS 2 meter installation campaign
relies on meters being in an outside cupboard for reliability. Hence I
need some knowledge / information to press my utility supplier to get
the problem fixed.

So I am asking here about 400MHz band, which I understand, maybe
incorrectly, is used to communicate with Smets 2 meters, amongst other
devices my searching brought to my attention.

Simple Questions
1. How reliable is the 400MZ signal at penetration into buildings, or
in my case through a brick / thermalite block wall?

2. Is the communications network operated by Arqiva?

3. Is there any test (reasonable priced, or rental) equipment that
would measure the radio signal to and from the meters communications
unit? (As my PC / mobile phone tells me the strength of wifi signal in
and around my house). I could then compare the signal strength at my
failing location and the working neighbour's location.

4. Anyone poster with any knowledge of the Smets 2 meters and the
radio communication used to read them, and test equipment to measure
signals please please enlighten me.

*** Please note: This is a problem with Smets 2 maters, not Smets 1,
and I do have access to another property with identical working meters
and communications unit installed 2 weeks before my failing meters.
Hence comparison of radio signals, polling, etc is possible.

Thanks for reading.
--
brigfhtside S9

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BrightsideS9 wrote:

the meters were not in an outside meter cabinet
the radio waves couldn't get to the meters and it was a common
problem. Even though my next door neighbour has SMETS 2 meters that
have communicate properly

DCC have the option to form a mesh network from your meter that's apparently not
getting a good enough signal, and your neighbour's meter that does get a good signal ... maybe you need to gently remind them of that feature?

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On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 10:13:06 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

BrightsideS9 wrote:

the meters were not in an outside meter cabinet
the radio waves couldn't get to the meters and it was a common
problem. Even though my next door neighbour has SMETS 2 meters that
have communicate properly

DCC have the option to form a mesh network from your meter that's apparently not
getting a good enough signal, and your neighbour's meter that does get a good >signal ... maybe you need to gently remind them of that feature?

Thanks Andy. Useful information.

--
brightsude s9

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BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 10:13:06 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

BrightsideS9 wrote:

the meters were not in an outside meter cabinet
the radio waves couldn't get to the meters and it was a common
problem. Even though my next door neighbour has SMETS 2 meters that
have communicate properly

DCC have the option to form a mesh network from your meter that's apparently not
getting a good enough signal, and your neighbour's meter that does get a good
signal ... maybe you need to gently remind them of that feature?

Thanks Andy. Useful information.

Op: do you live in the north or south? The south of the UK uses the
cellular network

There is a map on this page

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

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On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 12:32:13 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:

Op: do you live in the north or south? The south of the UK uses the
cellular network

There is a map on this page

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

Not really useful, where is the boundary between North and Central and
South?

More useful is this:- https://www.edmi-meters.com/europe/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/EDMI-420-Comms-Hub-User-Manual-Rev-1.0.pdf
There you have the specs.
Page 4 of 20 shows photograph of unit. Exactly as mine (clue in the
model number)
Page 6 of 20 shows WAN Specification:-
Transmit: 412-414 and 422-424 MHz
Receive: 422-424 MHz
TRP: 1W Maximum
Page 14 of 20 shows product naming convention code meaning. Code on
unit here is:- CS010A-08-82 (That says customer is Arqiva.).
The communication to DCC and IHD worked reliably for 2 to 3 months
after installation. The utility supplier and meter installing company (Lowry-Beck AISTR) seemed to think I was in the 'north'. I agree.

Now all I need is something to measure the signal in those bands at
the meter. Something I would have thought the engineer who came on
site for the problem would have carried but didn't.

--
he S9

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On 13:32 26 Mar 2022, Tweed said:

BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:

On Sat, 26 Mar 2022 10:13:06 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:

BrightsideS9 wrote:

the meters were not in an outside meter cabinet
the radio waves couldn't get to the meters and it was a common
problem. Even though my next door neighbour has SMETS 2 meters
that have communicate properly

DCC have the option to form a mesh network from your meter that's
apparently not getting a good enough signal, and your neighbour's
meter that does get a good signal ... maybe you need to gently
remind them of that feature?

Thanks Andy. Useful information.

Op: do you live in the north or south? The south of the UK uses the
cellular network

There is a map on this page

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

Interesting site. The impression it gives is SMETS1 meters are still being installed. Is this correct?

I'm thinking of having a meter installed and wanted SMETS2. Can I ensure
this?

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Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

Interesting site. The impression it gives is SMETS1 meters are still being installed. Is this correct?

Only in very limited circumstances, where a SMETS2 meter is not suitable. Suspect that's either to do with lack of signal, or something about the installation makes it difficult (I think three phase SMETS2 meters are still
in testing, for example).

I'm thinking of having a meter installed and wanted SMETS2. Can I ensure this?

It is almost certain to be SMETS2. The energy company doesn't get paid if
they install a SMETS1, so they won't do that unless they are forced to.
I don't have the numbers to hand, but it's only a handful of installs that
are SMETS1 these days.

Theo

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On 30/03/2022 10:25, Theo wrote:

Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

Interesting site. The impression it gives is SMETS1 meters are still being >> installed. Is this correct?

Only in very limited circumstances, where a SMETS2 meter is not suitable. Suspect that's either to do with lack of signal, or something about the installation makes it difficult (I think three phase SMETS2 meters are still in testing, for example).

3 phase SMETS2 (for up to 3x100A only?) were being offered during 2021
by at least some suppliers for some customers.



--
Robin
reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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Pamela wrote:

Tweed said:

https://www.smartme.co.uk/technical.html

Interesting site. The impression it gives is SMETS1 meters are still being installed. Is this correct?

Not being installed, but still being used (most of them have probably gone "dumb" due to supplier churn).

I'm thinking of having a meter installed and wanted SMETS2. Can I ensure this?

Yes.

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