Yet again a Radio 4 interview with someone moderately fairly important
(on "PM" with the Czech Foreign Minister) frustrated by a bad "line".
I recall when complaints were made about this c. 10 years ago the Lord
High Technologist insisted they did everything they can to avoid these glitches which were very occasional. Does "everything" include
collecting evidence of when a phone would have been better?
I can understand that a phone may not be practicable for a journalist reporting live from the middle a field on a plain in rural Ukraine. But
is it ignored even for a foreign minister in a European capital because
it's 20th century technology and not /technically/ as good a quality as
a "line"?
On 15/03/2022 17:50, Robin wrote:
Yet again a Radio 4 interview with someone moderately fairly important
(on "PM" with the Czech Foreign Minister) frustrated by a bad "line".
I recall when complaints were made about this c. 10 years ago the Lord
High Technologist insisted they did everything they can to avoid these
glitches which were very occasional. Does "everything" include
collecting evidence of when a phone would have been better?
One reason the connection may not be brilliant now is that a lot of >interviews with officials seem to be done using Zoom over a cellular >connection even if they are sitting in their office.
I can understand that a phone may not be practicable for a journalist
reporting live from the middle a field on a plain in rural Ukraine. But
is it ignored even for a foreign minister in a European capital because
it's 20th century technology and not /technically/ as good a quality as
a "line"?
The same applies to radio, they just don't broadcast the video part of
the call.
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of nowhere.......
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being >interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of >nowhere.......
Yet again a Radio 4 interview with someone moderately fairly important
(on "PM" with the Czech Foreign Minister) frustrated by a bad "line".
I recall when complaints were made about this c. 10 years ago the Lord
High Technologist insisted they did everything they can to avoid these glitches which were very occasional. Does "everything" include
collecting evidence of when a phone would have been better?
I can understand that a phone may not be practicable for a journalist reporting live from the middle a field on a plain in rural Ukraine.
But is it ignored even for a foreign minister in a European capital
because it's 20th century technology and not /technically/ as good a
quality as a "line"?
On 15/03/2022 17:50, Robin wrote:
Yet again a Radio 4 interview with someone moderately fairly importantVideo conferencing systems (Zoom, Teams, Skype, Facetime, etc) require a robust and low jitter _upstream_ connection. The problem is, many participants are interviewed at home.
(on "PM" with the Czech Foreign Minister) frustrated by a bad "line".
I recall when complaints were made about this c. 10 years ago the Lord
High Technologist insisted they did everything they can to avoid these
glitches which were very occasional. Does "everything" include
collecting evidence of when a phone would have been better?
I can understand that a phone may not be practicable for a journalist
reporting live from the middle a field on a plain in rural Ukraine.
But is it ignored even for a foreign minister in a European capital
because it's 20th century technology and not /technically/ as good a
quality as a "line"?
The average person will have crappy extension wiring, some turd on a
cable ISP supplied router, and a congested wifi network.
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of nowhere.......
In article <t0s8pj$j8q$1@dont-email.me>,
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 16/03/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:I'm a not-too-fsr-from-London rural area. FTTP being installed as I type.
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon beingAnd after moving to living in the middle of nowhere, they will complain
interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of
nowhere.......
about why they do not get the same high speed connection as someone
living in a cabled apartment block in a big city - at no extra cost of
course.
If someone set up up a small company in a rural area that needed lots of
power and water then they would cost for the upgrades to their
electricity and water supplies but expect the rest of us to subsidise
them having a very high speed broadband connection at no extra cost.
On 16/03/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of nowhere.......
And after moving to living in the middle of nowhere, they will complain
about why they do not get the same high speed connection as someone
living in a cabled apartment block in a big city - at no extra cost of course.
If someone set up up a small company in a rural area that needed lots of power and water then they would cost for the upgrades to their
electricity and water supplies but expect the rest of us to subsidise
them having a very high speed broadband connection at no extra cost.
I'm a not-too-fsr-from-London rural area. FTTP being installed as I type.
On 16/03/2022 09:18, charles wrote:
In article <t0s8pj$j8q$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 16/03/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:I'm a not-too-fsr-from-London rural area. FTTP being installed as I
What astounds me is that people that have their career based uponAnd after moving to living in the middle of nowhere, they will
being interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional
grade internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the
middle of nowhere.......
complain about why they do not get the same high speed connection as
someone living in a cabled apartment block in a big city - at no extra
cost of course. If someone set up up a small company in a rural area
that needed lots of power and water then they would cost for the
upgrades to their electricity and water supplies but expect the rest
of us to subsidise them having a very high speed broadband connection
at no extra cost.
type.
KT24 is suburban, not rural.
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 16/03/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being
interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of
nowhere.......
And after moving to living in the middle of nowhere, they will complain
about why they do not get the same high speed connection as someone
living in a cabled apartment block in a big city - at no extra cost of
course.
If someone set up up a small company in a rural area that needed lots of
power and water then they would cost for the upgrades to their
electricity and water supplies but expect the rest of us to subsidise
them having a very high speed broadband connection at no extra cost.
It's what the poiticians have been promising us (without the faintest
idea of the problems involved in delivering it). It comes in the same >category as the promises of electric vehicles and wind power totally >replacing the existing systems.
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 11:21:00 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 16/03/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being >> > interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of
nowhere.......
And after moving to living in the middle of nowhere, they will complain
about why they do not get the same high speed connection as someone
living in a cabled apartment block in a big city - at no extra cost of
course.
If someone set up up a small company in a rural area that needed lots of >> power and water then they would cost for the upgrades to their
electricity and water supplies but expect the rest of us to subsidise
them having a very high speed broadband connection at no extra cost.
It's what the poiticians have been promising us (without the faintest
idea of the problems involved in delivering it). It comes in the same >category as the promises of electric vehicles and wind power totally >replacing the existing systems.
They need to leave the engineering to the engineers.
Build a better car and people will beat a path to your door.
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 11:21:00 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 16/03/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being >>>> interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of
nowhere.......
And after moving to living in the middle of nowhere, they will complain
about why they do not get the same high speed connection as someone
living in a cabled apartment block in a big city - at no extra cost of
course.
If someone set up up a small company in a rural area that needed lots of >>> power and water then they would cost for the upgrades to their
electricity and water supplies but expect the rest of us to subsidise
them having a very high speed broadband connection at no extra cost.
It's what the poiticians have been promising us (without the faintest
idea of the problems involved in delivering it). It comes in the same
category as the promises of electric vehicles and wind power totally
replacing the existing systems.
They need to leave the engineering to the engineers.
On 16/03/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of nowhere.......
And after moving to living in the middle of nowhere, they will complain
about why they do not get the same high speed connection as someone
living in a cabled apartment block in a big city - at no extra cost of course.
If someone set up up a small company in a rural area that needed lots of power and water then they would cost for the upgrades to their
electricity and water supplies but expect the rest of us to subsidise
them having a very high speed broadband connection at no extra cost.
In article <j9dp8bF4mvlU1@mid.individual.net>, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 16/03/2022 09:18, charles wrote:Part of the village is an AONB and there are still two working farms,
In article <t0s8pj$j8q$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:KT24 is suburban, not rural.
On 16/03/2022 08:29, Mark Carver wrote:I'm a not-too-fsr-from-London rural area. FTTP being installed as I
What astounds me is that people that have their career based uponAnd after moving to living in the middle of nowhere, they will
being interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional
grade internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the
middle of nowhere.......
complain about why they do not get the same high speed connection as
someone living in a cabled apartment block in a big city - at no extra >>>> cost of course. If someone set up up a small company in a rural area
that needed lots of power and water then they would cost for the
upgrades to their electricity and water supplies but expect the rest
of us to subsidise them having a very high speed broadband connection
at no extra cost.
type.
What astounds me is that people that have their career based upon being interviewed by the media, don't have a proper professional grade
internet provision. Of course many insist on living in the middle of nowhere.......
KT24 is suburban, not rural.
Part of the village is an AONB and there are still two working farms,Best pop down to your lower field and check the drainage later today ?
And for supposedly intelligent people they seem to have little knowledge
or common sense when it comes to room acoustics/mic placement, focussing
on the person and not the bookcase, or avoiding white backgrounds when
using auto exposure. There was a bloke on last night with a white wall filling 75% of the screen area and he looked as black as the ace of
spades (and I don't think he was).
KT24 is suburban, not rural.
Part of the village is an AONB and there are still two working farms,
On Wed, 16 Mar 2022 10:34:34 +0000 (GMT), charles
<charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
KT24 is suburban, not rural.
Part of the village is an AONB and there are still two working farms,
Not for much longer Chuck. I'm sure the planning application is already
in to build houses for Ukrainians. What they're gonna eat I don't know.
It's what the poiticians have been promising us (without the faintest
idea of the problems involved in delivering it). It comes in the same >>category as the promises of electric vehicles and wind power totally >>replacing the existing systems.
They need to leave the engineering to the engineers.
Build a better car and people will beat a path to your door.
For the vast majority of people, it is cheaper to hire a vehicle than
keep one solely for the few journeys they make that exceed the range.
The reduction in running costs of the electric vehicle more than pays
the hire charges. If used to commute to work, my electric car would have
been 5 per day cheaper than the petrol one I have been using for the
last 30 years.
On 17/03/2022 10:11, NY wrote:
Range and recharging time is something which I don't see being fixed (*) any time soon. It doesn't matter that 90% of journeys are local, and
well within the range of the battery. You want a car which can also be
used for the 10% of journeys which are much further, without needing to
buy a short-range EV and a long-range fossil-fuel car.
For the vast majority of people, it is cheaper to hire a vehicle than
keep one solely for the few journeys they make that exceed the range.
The reduction in running costs of the electric vehicle more than pays
the hire charges. If used to commute to work, my electric car would have
been 5 per day cheaper than the petrol one I have been using for the
last 30 years.
John Williamson wrote:
For the vast majority of people, it is cheaper to hire a vehicle than
keep one solely for the few journeys they make that exceed the range.
The reduction in running costs of the electric vehicle more than pays
the hire charges. If used to commute to work, my electric car would have
been 5 per day cheaper than the petrol one I have been using for the
last 30 years.
However, the rapidly increasing cost of all forms of power means
that the numbers are constantly changing.
In article <j9gjjjFdjniU1@mid.individual.net>,
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
For the vast majority of people, it is cheaper to hire a vehicle than
keep one solely for the few journeys they make that exceed the range.
The reduction in running costs of the electric vehicle more than pays
the hire charges. If used to commute to work, my electric car would have
been 5 per day cheaper than the petrol one I have been using for the
last 30 years.
That was my initial thought. I then discoverd that if you are cover 80,
most hire companies don't want to know.
Range and recharging time is something which I don't see being fixed (*)
any time soon. It doesn't matter that 90% of journeys are local, and
well within the range of the battery. You want a car which can also be
used for the 10% of journeys which are much further, without needing to
buy a short-range EV and a long-range fossil-fuel car.
(*) I consider "fixed" to be 700 miles range on one charge, with it only taking a few minutes to add another 700 miles range, because that's what
my diesel car gives me. Changing to an EV shouldn't require me to accept
a poorer level of service (range and recharge).
I then discoverd that if you are over 80,
most hire companies don't want to know.
(*) I consider "fixed" to be 700 miles range on one charge, with it only
taking a few minutes to add another 700 miles range, because that's what
my diesel car gives me. Changing to an EV shouldn't require me to accept
a poorer level of service (range and recharge).
How often do you make trips of more than a hundred miles each way, without spending enough time at your destination to recharge? An hour on charge
can take you from totally flat to 80% charge, if the charger is available.
On 17/03/2022 11:34, charles wrote:
In article <j9gjjjFdjniU1@mid.individual.net>,
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
There will always be exceptions to any rule.For the vast majority of people, it is cheaper to hire a vehicle than
keep one solely for the few journeys they make that exceed the range.
The reduction in running costs of the electric vehicle more than pays
the hire charges. If used to commute to work, my electric car would have >>> been £5 per day cheaper than the petrol one I have been using for the
last 30 years.
That was my initial thought. I then discoverd that if you are cover 80,
most hire companies don't want to know.
On 17/03/2022 11:34, Chris J Dixon wrote:
However, the rapidly increasing cost of all forms of power meansAt the moment, electricity is going up more slowly than petrol and diesel.
that the numbers are constantly changing.
On 17/03/2022 11:34, Chris J Dixon wrote:
John Williamson wrote:
For the vast majority of people, it is cheaper to hire a vehicle than
keep one solely for the few journeys they make that exceed the range.
The reduction in running costs of the electric vehicle more than pays
the hire charges. If used to commute to work, my electric car would have >> been 5 per day cheaper than the petrol one I have been using for the
last 30 years.
However, the rapidly increasing cost of all forms of power means
that the numbers are constantly changing.
At the moment, electricity is going up more slowly than petrol and diesel.
Well next month my electricity will be costing just under 38%
more per kWh, and 87% more per day. Thankfully my diesel hasn't
yet passed 2/litre, which would be equivalent, but who knows?
That was my initial thought. I then discoverd that if you are cover 80,
most hire companies don't want to know.
How often do you make trips of more than a hundred miles each way,
without spending enough time at your destination to recharge? An hour on charge can take you from totally flat to 80% charge, if the charger is available.
My wife used to work about 90 minutes / 76 miles from where we live, until Covid rules allowed her to work from home (and it looks as if that will continue indefinitely) and she said that if she'd had an electric car she
was worried that even if she found a vacant charging point in the car park, she might come back to find that charging had failed and she'd not have enough charge to get back home. Or else she'd be late for meetings because she'd still be chasing round the car park trying to find a charging point.
Apart from the fact that you have find a hire car available, go and
collect it or pay for it to be delivered to your house.
"Chris J Dixon" <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message >news:7q473h10qhn7qah8bfti25t801inmvdsrd@4ax.com...
Well next month my electricity will be costing just under 38%
more per kWh, and 87% more per day. Thankfully my diesel hasn't
yet passed 2/litre, which would be equivalent, but who knows?
I'd expect the cost per kWhr and cost per day to increase by the same >proportion, unless your consumption is about to increase. Or have I
missed something?
"John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message >news:j9gjjjFdjniU1@mid.individual.net...
(*) I consider "fixed" to be 700 miles range on one charge, with it only >>> taking a few minutes to add another 700 miles range, because that's what >>> my diesel car gives me. Changing to an EV shouldn't require me to accept >>> a poorer level of service (range and recharge).
How often do you make trips of more than a hundred miles each way, without >> spending enough time at your destination to recharge? An hour on charge
can take you from totally flat to 80% charge, if the charger is available.
When we go down to see our parents (a 4-hour journey) one of use normally >drives the whole way in one go - or if we stop, it's just a few minutes for
a pee-stop. When we go out, it's rare that we'll stop in one place long >enough to do much recharging of a battery.
My wife used to work about 90 minutes / 76 miles from where we live, until >Covid rules allowed her to work from home (and it looks as if that will >continue indefinitely) and she said that if she'd had an electric car she
was worried that even if she found a vacant charging point in the car park, >she might come back to find that charging had failed and she'd not have >enough charge to get back home. Or else she'd be late for meetings because >she'd still be chasing round the car park trying to find a charging point.
It's perfectly clear that although electric cars might suit some
people they're not the answer for everyone, and the infrastructure is
nowhere near sufficient to enable them to replace what we already
have. Maybe one day, but not yet. Probably not in my lifetime.
"Chris J Dixon" <chris@cdixon.me.uk> wrote in message >news:7q473h10qhn7qah8bfti25t801inmvdsrd@4ax.com...
Well next month my electricity will be costing just under 38%
more per kWh, and 87% more per day. Thankfully my diesel hasn't
yet passed 2/litre, which would be equivalent, but who knows?
I'd expect the cost per kWhr and cost per day to increase by the same >proportion, unless your consumption is about to increase. Or have I missed >something?
NY wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:
next month my electricity will be costing just under 38%
more per kWh, and 87% more per day. Thankfully my diesel hasn't
yet passed £2/litre, which would be equivalent, but who knows?
I'd expect the cost per kWhr and cost per day to increase by the same
proportion, unless your consumption is about to increase. Or have I missed >> something?
Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%
Chris J Dixon wrote:
NY wrote:
Chris J Dixon wrote:
next month my electricity will be costing just under 38%
more per kWh, and 87% more per day. Thankfully my diesel hasn't
yet passed 2/litre, which would be equivalent, but who knows?
I'd expect the cost per kWhr and cost per day to increase by the same
proportion, unless your consumption is about to increase. Or have I missed >>> something?
Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%
I think the way you initially phrased it, could be taken as though your overall
daily cost (not just the standing charge) was going up by 87%
On 18/03/2022 08:35, Mark Carver wrote:
As for replacing the main car, well, as discussed, currently lots of
pitfalls
I used to see a few people on a forum who were always going on about
how marvellous battery cars were but when you looked closely, they had battery cars for commuting (with free charging at work) but a proper
petrol or diesel car as second car for longer journeys. Most of us
can't afford to have two cars.
As for replacing the main car, well, as discussed, currently lots of
pitfalls
My wife's car could easily be replaced with an electric one, her pattern
of driving is ideal, never goes more than 15 miles from home,
always returns home, and routinely just tizzes about in the local area.
In fact, an electric car is more ideal, short journeys are killers for
fuel economy and exhaust pipes !
And if she did have an electric car, we'd probably use my one (the main
car) less for the local stuff, because of the above.
As for replacing the main car, well, as discussed, currently lots of
pitfalls
Get a hybrid then ?
My new Octopus rates:
Flexible Avro October 2021 v1 from 02/04/22
E7 in LE12
Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%
Gas new rates
Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.24%
Cost per kWh 7.2765p +84.68%
On 18/03/2022 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:
My new Octopus rates:
Flexible Avro October 2021 v1 from 02/04/22
E7 in LE12
Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%
Gas new rates
Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.24%
Cost per kWh 7.2765p +84.68%
My charges on a shiny new Scottish Power account are 27.09 p per unit
at any time, and 23.59 p per day standing charge, fixed for 12 months.
And I though *I* was being ripped off...
On 18/03/2022 10:39, John Williamson wrote:
On 18/03/2022 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:
My new Octopus rates:
Flexible Avro October 2021 v1 from 02/04/22
E7 in LE12
Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%
Gas new rates
Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.24%
Cost per kWh 7.2765p +84.68%
My charges on a shiny new Scottish Power account are 27.09 p per unit
at any time, and 23.59 p per day standing charge, fixed for 12 months.
And I though *I* was being ripped off...
Out of interest how, 'shiny new' ? You must have signed up for it a few months ago ?
On 18/03/2022 11:38, Mark Carver wrote:
On 18/03/2022 10:39, John Williamson wrote:
On 18/03/2022 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:
My new Octopus rates:
Flexible Avro October 2021 v1 from 02/04/22
E7 in LE12
Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%
Gas new rates
Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.24%
Cost per kWh 7.2765p +84.68%
My charges on a shiny new Scottish Power account are 27.09 p per unit
at any time, and 23.59 p per day standing charge, fixed for 12 months.
And I though *I* was being ripped off...
Out of interest how, 'shiny new' ? You must have signed up for it a few
months ago ?
November, but there has been some confusion about the meter, so I now
have a smart one instead of the 50 year old whirly one.
My charges on a shiny new Scottish Power account are 27.09 p per unit at any time, and 23.59 p per day standing charge
John Williamson wrote:
My charges on a shiny new Scottish Power account are 27.09 p per unit
at any time, and 23.59 p per day standing charge
Their shiniest newest tariff is 55.28p per unit and 38.98p per day,
fixed for 14 months.
On 18/03/2022 12:13, John Williamson wrote:I wasn't given the option, possibly because it is a reconnection of a commercial supply after an 8 year gap. Scottish Power are not easy to
On 18/03/2022 11:38, Mark Carver wrote:Oh, well, there we are, November was before all of this palaver kicked
Out of interest how, 'shiny new' ? You must have signed up for it a few
months ago ?
November, but there has been some confusion about the meter, so I now
have a smart one instead of the 50 year old whirly one.
off. You'll wish you didn't sign up for two years though, when we get > to October !
November was before all of this palaver kicked off.
Mark Carver wrote:
November was before all of this palaver kicked off.
"This palaver"? the wholesale gas prices had bust plenty of suppliers
by November
<https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/information-consumers/energy-advice-households/what-happens-if-your-energy-supplier-goes-bust>
On 18/03/2022 12:43, Andy Burns wrote:
the wholesale gas prices had bust plenty of suppliers by November
Oh yes, you're right ! I'm getting my crisis timelines muddled !
Mark Carver wrote:Is the correct answer.
On 18/03/2022 12:43, Andy Burns wrote:
the wholesale gas prices had bust plenty of suppliers by November
Oh yes, you're right ! I'm getting my crisis timelines muddled !
I presume most of them hadn't hedged their future purchases as far ahead
as they'd got customers locked into sales ...
Mark Carver wrote:
On 18/03/2022 12:43, Andy Burns wrote:
the wholesale gas prices had bust plenty of suppliers by November
Oh yes, you're right ! I'm getting my crisis timelines muddled !
I presume most of them hadn't hedged their future purchases as far
ahead as they'd got customers locked into sales ...
On 18/03/2022 09:07, Mark Carver wrote:
Get a hybrid then ?
Might do when I come to replace the car but they are more expensive.
Perhaps as we near the date when they are going to restrict sales of
petrol and diesel cars though I suspect the demand for hybrids will
increase then though could be balanced by an increase in demand for
second hand petrol cars.
I am nor particularly a greeny but do worry about the effect on the >environment of battery cars but it seems to be acceptable to the
greenies to have young children mining Lithium.
On 18/03/2022 09:04, MB wrote:
On 18/03/2022 08:35, Mark Carver wrote:
As for replacing the main car, well, as discussed, currently lots of
pitfalls
I used to see a few people on a forum who were always going on about
how marvellous battery cars were but when you looked closely, they had >>battery cars for commuting (with free charging at work) but a proper
petrol or diesel car as second car for longer journeys. Most of us
can't afford to have two cars.
Get a hybrid then ?
On 19/03/2022 20:06, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:My daughter and son-in-law were doing the three Peaks - came off Ben Nevis
I'd like to go green (or rather electric), but there are lots of
drawbacks - mainly, "range anxiety", mainly based on the paucity of charging points: another concern to_me_ is the fact that, as I
understand it, a_lot_ of the charging points are_only_ usable if you
have a smartphone (and the necessary permanently-on data contract).
I have probably mentioned before but here in the Highlands, if there is
an accident then there can often be a full road closure which can mean a hundred mile diversion which could be awkward if you are relying topping
up the battery.
I'd like to go green (or rather electric), but there are lots of
drawbacks - mainly, "range anxiety", mainly based on the paucity of
charging points: another concern to_me_ is the fact that, as I
understand it, a_lot_ of the charging points are_only_ usable if you
have a smartphone (and the necessary permanently-on data contract).
On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 at 09:07:27, Mark Carver
<mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
On 18/03/2022 09:04, MB wrote:
On 18/03/2022 08:35, Mark Carver wrote:
As for replacing the main car, well, as discussed, currently lots of
pitfalls
I used to see a few people on a forum who were always going on about
how marvellous battery cars were but when you looked closely, they
had battery cars for commuting (with free charging at work) but a
proper petrol or diesel car as second car for longer journeys. Most
of us can't afford to have two cars.
And (a) many of the population don't have _space_ to keep two, even if
they could afford them, and (b) - flat-dwellers in particular - the
are nowhere near enough public-access charging points.
Everyone keeps saying, well fit a socket to the lamp posts. Well,
there's only a lamp post every 5 or 6 houses, and the supply capacity available is tiny.
BrightsideS9 wrote:
Anyone explain why Octopus who is bragging (at this very moment on its
web site) about all its electricity is from green sources has raised
its capped electricity prices to the permitted level
Because we haven't got a separate set of wires that drop from 230V to
0V when it's dark and not windy?
On 20/03/2022 15:10, Mark Carver wrote:
Everyone keeps saying, well fit a socket to the lamp posts. Well,
there's only a lamp post every 5 or 6 houses, and the supply capacity
available is tiny.
Needs a bit more than a socket, it needs similar to what you see on
charge points in car parks etc to identify the user and make them pay.
Also obviously safety features.
Also has to be vandal-proof.
Unless the government (of any colour) implements a _profit_ cap rather
than a _price_ cap, any provider will charge as near to the price cap as
is practicable, whatever the _production_ cost is. And such a profit cap would, as well as causing howls of protest from the providers, be I
suspect very difficult to implement.
On 20/03/2022 16:49, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Unless the government (of any colour) implements a _profit_ cap rather
than a _price_ cap, any provider will charge as near to the price cap as
is practicable, whatever the _production_ cost is. And such a profit cap
would, as well as causing howls of protest from the providers, be I
suspect very difficult to implement.
Compare with the University education market where the Gibberment said
that no university could charge *more than" 9,000 per annum tuition
fees, so they obviously all went for that as the standard fee.
BrightsideS9 wrote:
Anyone explain why Octopus who is bragging (at this very moment on its
web site) about all its electricity is from green sources has raised
its capped electricity prices to the permitted level
Because we haven't got a separate set of wires that drop from 230V to 0V when >it's dark and not windy?
BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:39:42 +0000, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 18/03/2022 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:
My new Octopus rates:
Flexible Avro October 2021 v1 from 02/04/22
E7 in LE12
Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%
Gas new rates
Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.24%
Cost per kWh 7.2765p +84.68%
My charges on a shiny new Scottish Power account are 27.09 p per unit at >>> any time, and 23.59 p per day standing charge, fixed for 12 months. And
I though *I* was being ripped off...
No gas, as the payback period for installing gas heating is longer than
I currently plan to stay here.
Anyone explain why Octopus who is bragging (at this very moment on its
web site) about all its electricity is from green sources has raised
its capped electricity prices to the permitted level, which of course
covers the generation from ungreen sources.
So I paid over the odds for several years for totally green
electricity, and now I am paying same as the uncaring ungreen
consumers.
Octoupus must be coining it in. All our electriciy is green, they say,
but we will charge you for all the dirty stuff we don't provide.
Market forces. Octopus dont own any significant generation so have to buy
on the open market. Green electricity will rise to the price of fossil fuel >electricity because why would a green energy producer sell for less? Only >when there is a huge surplus of green electricity will prices fall. We are >nowhere near that. Electricity producers dont sell at the cost of >generation, they sell at the highest price the market will tolerate.
On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 13:24:41 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On Fri, 18 Mar 2022 10:39:42 +0000, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 18/03/2022 08:31, Chris J Dixon wrote:
My new Octopus rates:
Flexible Avro October 2021 v1 from 02/04/22
E7 in LE12
Electricity new rates
Standing daily charge 44.5725p +86.89%
Cost per kWh (day) 29.9985p +37.86%
Cost per kWh (night) 20.6955p +37.52%
Gas new rates
Standing daily charge 27.216p +4.24%
Cost per kWh 7.2765p +84.68%
My charges on a shiny new Scottish Power account are 27.09 p per unit at >>>> any time, and 23.59 p per day standing charge, fixed for 12 months. And >>>> I though *I* was being ripped off...
No gas, as the payback period for installing gas heating is longer than >>>> I currently plan to stay here.
Anyone explain why Octopus who is bragging (at this very moment on its
web site) about all its electricity is from green sources has raised
its capped electricity prices to the permitted level, which of course
covers the generation from ungreen sources.
So I paid over the odds for several years for totally green
electricity, and now I am paying same as the uncaring ungreen
consumers.
Octoupus must be coining it in. All our electriciy is green, they say,
but we will charge you for all the dirty stuff we don't provide.
Market forces. Octopus dont own any significant generation so have to buy >> on the open market. Green electricity will rise to the price of fossil fuel >> electricity because why would a green energy producer sell for less? Only
when there is a huge surplus of green electricity will prices fall. We are >> nowhere near that. Electricity producers dont sell at the cost of
generation, they sell at the highest price the market will tolerate.
If, as a well run utility company I imagine Octopus has a long term
fixed price contract for their green electricity (remember Octopus
claim ALL their electricity is green) then your premise that they have
to sell to cover market prices is wrong. Can you provide a better
explanation for their use of capped electricity prices.
On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 15:10:29 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
BrightsideS9 wrote:
Anyone explain why Octopus who is bragging (at this very moment on its
web site) about all its electricity is from green sources has raised
its capped electricity prices to the permitted level
Because we haven't got a separate set of wires that drop from 230V to 0V >when it's dark and not windy?
Morrisons, ASDA, Ocado, Sainsbuyrs and Tesco deliver groceries etc round here. They all use the roads to get here. They don't have separate
driveways from their stores to my house. Sheesh!
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your
locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
But I don't think they'd take away the empties.
In article <3cff3htdqdqctlqk048ueff8mmquqeugiq@4ax.com>, BrightsideS9 <reply_to_address_is_not@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 15:10:29 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
BrightsideS9 wrote:
Anyone explain why Octopus who is bragging (at this very moment on its >>>> web site) about all its electricity is from green sources has raised
its capped electricity prices to the permitted level
Because we haven't got a separate set of wires that drop from 230V to 0V >>> when it's dark and not windy?
Morrisons, ASDA, Ocado, Sainsbuyrs and Tesco deliver groceries etc round
here. They all use the roads to get here. They don't have separate
driveways from their stores to my house. Sheesh!
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
On 21/03/2022 09:36, Robin wrote:
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your >> locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
But I don't think they'd take away the empties.
I love the way shops hide out of sight their battery recycling containers.
In my local Mini-Tescos I had to shift several trolley cages out of the
way, and stand on a pile of Sunday newspapers, to drop my 4 x AA cells
into the container.
SuperDrug had theirs behind their counter
In article <j9qvk5Fdm7cU1@mid.individual.net>,
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 21/03/2022 09:36, Robin wrote:
I love the way shops hide out of sight their battery recycling containers. >> In my local Mini-Tescos I had to shift several trolley cages out of theI'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your >>>> locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.But I don't think they'd take away the empties.
way, and stand on a pile of Sunday newspapers, to drop my 4 x AA cells
into the container.
SuperDrug had theirs behind their counter
our council refuse collection also takes batteries - in a separate bag.
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s,
"Two Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
On 21/03/2022 08:46, charles wrote:
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your
locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s, "Two Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
While I was on short time at Stevens I sometimes went with my friend
Harold Wilson on his round delivering accumulators for wirelesses.
Harold worked for the Forward Stores at Bentley. He drove an Austin Ten
van and had several “rounds” delivering charged accumulators to people with battery wireless sets, and collecting the discharged ones, so that
they could be charged up at the shop. Most of these rounds were in the countryside north of Askern. I would meet him at the shop and we would
load up the van with accumulators and high tension batteries and off we
went.
While I was on short time at Stevens I sometimes went with my friend
Harold Wilson on his round delivering accumulators for wirelesses.
Harold worked for the Forward Stores at Bentley. He drove an Austin Ten
van and had several “rounds” delivering charged accumulators to people
On 21/03/2022 08:46, charles wrote:
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your
locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s, "Two Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
While I was on short time at Stevens I sometimes went with my friend
Harold Wilson on his round delivering accumulators for wirelesses.
Harold worked for the Forward Stores at Bentley. He drove an Austin Ten
van and had several “rounds” delivering charged accumulators to people with battery wireless sets, and collecting the discharged ones, so that
they could be charged up at the shop. Most of these rounds were in the countryside north of Askern. I would meet him at the shop and we would
load up the van with accumulators and high tension batteries and off we
went. Most of the customers were farms and cottages so we did quite a
lot of travelling. Harold would call at a pub and buy us a pie each for dinner, we would get back to the shop in time to put all the batteries
on charge ready for the next day. One day as we were going along the
Selby road we came up behind an open backed lorry loaded with people who could have been going pea picking or something like that. As we were
about to pass the lorry it moved over to the right and forced the van
off the road. The offside wheels went over the verge and the van slowly turned over and finished on its side on the grass. Acid from the
batteries was all over the place. We washed our hands and faces in the
dyke the best we could do. Eddie Crannich who owned the Forward Stores
came out with his car — he had a big old-fashioned Bentley — and he
towed the van back to the shop. I went home to get my acid-soaked
clothes off. Mam washed my overalls and my trousers and when they were
dried the trousers weren’t too bad; they could be patched, but the
overalls – they were past redemption.
On 21/03/2022 09:36, Robin wrote:
I love the way shops hide out of sight their battery recycling containers.
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your >>> locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
But I don't think they'd take away the empties.
In my local Mini-Tescos I had to shift several trolley cages out of the
way, and stand on a pile of Sunday newspapers, to drop my 4 x AA cells
into the container.
SuperDrug had theirs behind their counter
On 21/03/2022 14:22, williamwright wrote:
On 21/03/2022 08:46, charles wrote:
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your >> locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s, "Two Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
While I was on short time at Stevens I sometimes went with my friend
Harold Wilson on his round delivering accumulators for wirelesses.
Harold worked for the Forward Stores at Bentley. He drove an Austin Ten
van and had several “rounds” delivering charged accumulators to people with battery wireless sets, and collecting the discharged ones, so that they could be charged up at the shop. Most of these rounds were in the countryside north of Askern. I would meet him at the shop and we would
load up the van with accumulators and high tension batteries and off we went.
I assume that the HT batteries were zinc/carbon, with lots of
cylindrical cells wired in series with soldered connections. My father
said that it was possible to get lead/acid HT batteries for a price; I
assume that the same people would be able to charge them.
Max Demian <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:
On 21/03/2022 14:22, williamwright wrote:
On 21/03/2022 08:46, charles wrote:
I'm sure you could have your electricialy delivered in batteries by your >>>> locsl supermarket instead of by wire if you wanted.
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s, "Two
Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
While I was on short time at Stevens I sometimes went with my friend
Harold Wilson on his round delivering accumulators for wirelesses.
Harold worked for the Forward Stores at Bentley. He drove an Austin Ten
van and had several “rounds†delivering charged accumulators to people
with battery wireless sets, and collecting the discharged ones, so that
they could be charged up at the shop. Most of these rounds were in the
countryside north of Askern. I would meet him at the shop and we would
load up the van with accumulators and high tension batteries and off we
went.
I assume that the HT batteries were zi/carbon, with lots of
cylindrical cells wired in series with soldered connections. My father
said that it was possible to get lead/acid HT batteries for a price; I
assume that the same people would be able to charge them.
There were HT batteries with nickel-iron cells and a clever
series-parallel switch that allowed them to be charged like normal accumulators. They still occasionally turn up and only need fresh electrolyte to start working again like new.
On 17/03/2022 12:27, NY wrote:
My wife used to work about 90 minutes / 76 miles from where we live, until >> Covid rules allowed her to work from home (and it looks as if that will
continue indefinitely) and she said that if she'd had an electric car she
was worried that even if she found a vacant charging point in the car park, >> she might come back to find that charging had failed and she'd not have
enough charge to get back home. Or else she'd be late for meetings because >> she'd still be chasing round the car park trying to find a charging point.
And of course if you do find a charge point, I doubt you can leave the
car plugged in there all day so you might to park and put on charge then >return a few hours later to move the car.
Heres a side street in Romsey town in Cambridge, here we have a full on
green sort of council that thinks cars are the biggest bad thing on the
go thats why its sometimes called "cycle city" which is a very good
answer to carbon reduction yada yada!, but it seems electric cars are a lesser evil but as to charging them how do you do that if you live on
streets like this one?...
https://goo.gl/maps/G7Sg9e7Y34ZyA42R9
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working class people. Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car charged
up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys think the working classes should use public transport, or walk.
On 25/03/2022 13:00, williamwright wrote:
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working class people.
Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car charged
up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys think the
working classes should use public transport, or walk.
Leave more room on the road for their large SUVs.
I was talking to a relative who was a HGV driver, I was saying there are >occasional claims about battery powered HGVs and vans but I not seen of
any in the real world. I wonder if the middle class greenies will be
able to get their groceries delivered and tradesmen able to get to their >homes to do work
On 25/03/2022 10:58, tony sayer wrote:
Heres a side street in Romsey town in Cambridge, here we have a full on
green sort of council that thinks cars are the biggest bad thing on the
go thats why its sometimes called "cycle city" which is a very good
answer to carbon reduction yada yada!, but it seems electric cars are a
lesser evil but as to charging them how do you do that if you live on
streets like this one?...
https://goo.gl/maps/G7Sg9e7Y34ZyA42R9
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working class people. >Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car charged
up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys think the >working classes should use public transport, or walk.
Bill
On 25/03/2022 10:58, tony sayer wrote:
Heres a side street in Romsey town in Cambridge, here we have a full on
green sort of council that thinks cars are the biggest bad thing on the
go thats why its sometimes called "cycle city" which is a very good
answer to carbon reduction yada yada!, but it seems electric cars are a
lesser evil but as to charging them how do you do that if you live on
streets like this one?...
https://goo.gl/maps/G7Sg9e7Y34ZyA42R9
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working class
people. Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car
charged up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys
think the working classes should use public transport, or walk.
Well those houses were built for railway staff around 1865 "ish" but now going prices are around £700K odd;!.
And hardly anywhere to park the car let alone charge it!..
I
Well those houses were built for railway staff around 1865 "ish" but now going prices are around £700K odd;!.
And hardly anywhere to park the car let alone charge it!..
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working classI tend to agree, however loads of posh Middle Class Greenies live in
people. Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car
charged up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys
think the working classes should use public transport, or walk.
posh terraced streets (Islington and Hampstead Heath are prime
examples) so it'll be interesting how these streets will be enabled ?
There are close on fist fights anyone delivering in that area! Nowhere
to park and block the road for more than 10 seconds and wow!...
I did wonder about that. If the numbers are relatively small they'll
probably be sacrificed as 'collateral damage'. Of course middle income
and above people have access to more choices generally, including
transport modes.
On 25/03/2022 13:00, williamwright wrote:
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working class people.
Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car charged
up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys think the
working classes should use public transport, or walk.
Leave more room on the road for their large SUVs.
I was talking to a relative who was a HGV driver, I was saying there are occasional claims about battery powered HGVs and vans but I not seen of
any in the real world.
It's the same today with brand new developments, no where much to park
on the property, and one visitor space for about 6 houses.
The 'golden age' for family homes with enough drive space was probably
1950 to mid 80s ?
Both council and private housing of that era usually had space for the occupier to build a drive and even add a garage if required. Well,
that's round here. It might be different in deprived areas like the
south of England, I don't know, never been.
Bill
I hate it when people us the whole front 'garden' area for parking
(usally without planning permission).
On 26/03/2022 20:12, williamwright wrote:
You don't need it for a hard surface on which to park.
Doesn't removing the wall require planning permission?
I think you need permission to drop the kerb and pay, otherwise you are breaking the law by driving over the pavement - some areas are quite hot
on enforcing the rules.
You don't need it for a hard surface on which to park.
I think you need permission to drop the kerb and pay,
otherwise you are
breaking the law by driving over the pavement - some areas are quite hot
on enforcing the rules.
On 26/03/2022 20:12, williamwright wrote:
You don't need it for a hard surface on which to park.
Doesn't removing the wall require planning permission?
On 26/03/2022 20:29, MB wrote:
On 26/03/2022 20:12, williamwright wrote:
You don't need it for a hard surface on which to park.Doesn't removing the wall require planning permission?
Yes, but you don't need PP to simply make a hard standing.
Bill
On 26/03/2022 20:29, MB wrote:
On 26/03/2022 20:12, williamwright wrote:
You don't need it for a hard surface on which to park.
Doesn't removing the wall require planning permission?
Yes, but you don't need PP to simply make a hard standing.
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s,
"Two Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
Ta, that's on top of my 'to read' pile.
Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s,
"Two Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
Ta, that's on top of my 'to read' pile.
Very interesting and a good read, Bill, thanks.
It's important that folk history such as this isn't lost.
Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s,
"Two Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
Ta, that's on top of my 'to read' pile.
Very interesting and a good read, Bill, thanks.
It's important that folk history such as this isn't lost.
On Sun, 27 Mar 2022 at 23:38:44, Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
Sn!pe <snipeco.2@gmail.com> wrote:If we're onto history of life in ..., I recommend "Glide Path", about
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
An extract from my dad's astonishing book about life in the 1930s,
"Two Bentley Lads" (Amazon/Kindle)
Ta, that's on top of my 'to read' pile.
Very interesting and a good read, Bill, thanks.
It's important that folk history such as this isn't lost.
what it was like to be associated with the development of radar and the
like; it's by Arthur C. Clarke, yes the sci-fi author, but factual, or
mostly so (he _was_ thus involved, as a lowly engineer or technician
IIRR). Probably out of print though, and I've no idea how you'd find it;
I read it as a library book decades ago.
If we're onto history of life in ..., I recommend "Glide Path", about
what it was like to be associated with the development of radar and the
like; it's by Arthur C. Clarke, yes the sci-fi author, but factual, or
mostly so (he_was_ thus involved, as a lowly engineer or technician
IIRR). Probably out of print though, and I've no idea how you'd find it;
I read it as a library book decades ago.
On 28/03/2022 05:27, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
If we're onto history of life in ..., I recommend "Glide Path", about
what it was like to be associated with the development of radar and the
like; it's by Arthur C. Clarke, yes the sci-fi author, but factual, or
mostly so (he_was_ thus involved, as a lowly engineer or technician
IIRR). Probably out of print though, and I've no idea how you'd find it;
I read it as a library book decades ago.
There are lots of books now on radar (one due out this week).
Robert Buderi's book gives a very good picture of the whole story. Even >though he is American, he gives lots of credit to the UK for its >contribution. He goes on to show the number of areas that owe their >development to radar - the humble diode developed for radar receivers
was a major factor in semiconductors and then transistors etc.
On Mon, 28 Mar 2022 at 09:20:13, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
On 28/03/2022 05:27, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
If we're onto history of life in ..., I recommend "Glide Path", about
what it was like to be associated with the development of radar and the
like; it's by Arthur C. Clarke, yes the sci-fi author, but factual, or
mostly so (he_was_ thus involved, as a lowly engineer or technician
IIRR). Probably out of print though, and I've no idea how you'd find it; >> I read it as a library book decades ago.
There are lots of books now on radar (one due out this week).
Robert Buderi's book gives a very good picture of the whole story. Even >though he is American, he gives lots of credit to the UK for its >contribution. He goes on to show the number of areas that owe their >development to radar - the humble diode developed for radar receivers
was a major factor in semiconductors and then transistors etc.
Clarke's account - though it does have some technical detail, he was of
a scientific background (what made his SF so sound) - is more an account
of life around it. At least that's what I remember - it's decades
(probably over four of them) since I read it.
The only 'fiction' is the characters and the relocation and
concatenation of some of the real events. He very strongly denies that
any of the characters are based on real people and warns against trying
to identify them, but "Basil Deveraux", who was in charge when he first arrived at the experimental station, bears a striking resemblance to
Fred Deveraux who became Editor of Wireless World and which published Clarke's treatise on geostationary satellites.
I've re-read it recently. It is not only very accurate about what was already public at the time he wrote it, but it contains some detail
(slightly fudged) of things that have only come to light since. He must
have had access to inside knowledge.
The only 'fiction' is the characters and the relocation and
concatenation of some of the real events. He very strongly denies that
any of the characters are based on real people and warns against trying
to identify them, but "Basil Deveraux", who was in charge when he first arrived at the experimental station, bears a striking resemblance to
Fred Deveraux who became Editor of Wireless World and which published Clarke's treatise on geostationary satellites.
On 29/03/2022 12:35, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I've re-read it recently. It is not only very accurate about what was already public at the time he wrote it, but it contains some detail (slightly fudged) of things that have only come to light since. He must have had access to inside knowledge.
He did. He was very close to the heart of the program, and the only real restriction on what he was could write about was what he was allowed to
write by the Official Secrets Act.
How close was he to the military science of the time? Among other
things, he was the first person to propose using the geostationary orbit
for communications, though his inhabited "studios on space stations" transmuted into satellites that are purely transponders.
The only 'fiction' is the characters and the relocation and
concatenation of some of the real events. He very strongly denies that
any of the characters are based on real people and warns against trying
to identify them, but "Basil Deveraux", who was in charge when he first arrived at the experimental station, bears a striking resemblance to
Fred Deveraux who became Editor of Wireless World and which published Clarke's treatise on geostationary satellites.
The denial clause is standard in "fiction" purely to avoid legal problems.
In most, if not all, books and other material of this type, anyone even remotely involved knows *exactly* who is who.
In article <jagfb1Fi44aU1@mid.individual.net>, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 29/03/2022 12:35, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I've re-read it recently. It is not only very accurate about what
was already public at the time he wrote it, but it contains some
detail (slightly fudged) of things that have only come to light
since. He must have had access to inside knowledge.
He did. He was very close to the heart of the program, and the only
real restriction on what he was could write about was what he was
allowed to write by the Official Secrets Act.
How close was he to the military science of the time? Among other
things, he was the first person to propose using the geostationary
orbit for communications, though his inhabited "studios on space
stations" transmuted into satellites that are purely transponders.
The only 'fiction' is the characters and the relocation and
concatenation of some of the real events. He very strongly denies
that any of the characters are based on real people and warns against trying to identify them, but "Basil Deveraux", who was in charge when
he first arrived at the experimental station, bears a striking resemblance to Fred Deveraux who became Editor of Wireless World and which published Clarke's treatise on geostationary satellites.
The denial clause is standard in "fiction" purely to avoid legal
problems.
In most, if not all, books and other material of this type, anyone even remotely involved knows *exactly* who is who.
I prefer the Good disclaimer: "If anyone believes they are represented in this work, they should be bloody well ashamed of themselves."
On 29/03/2022 12:35, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I've re-read it recently. It is not only very accurate about what was already public at the time he wrote it, but it contains some detail (slightly fudged) of things that have only come to light since. He must have had access to inside knowledge.
He did. He was very close to the heart of the program, and the only real restriction on what he was could write about was what he was allowed to
write by the Official Secrets Act.
How close was he to the military science of the time? Among other
things, he was the first person to propose using the geostationary orbit
for communications, though his inhabited "studios on space stations" transmuted into satellites that are purely transponders.
The only 'fiction' is the characters and the relocation and
concatenation of some of the real events. He very strongly denies that
any of the characters are based on real people and warns against trying
to identify them, but "Basil Deveraux", who was in charge when he first arrived at the experimental station, bears a striking resemblance to
Fred Deveraux who became Editor of Wireless World and which published Clarke's treatise on geostationary satellites.
The denial clause is standard in "fiction" purely to avoid legal problems.
In most, if not all, books and other material of this type, anyone even remotely involved knows *exactly* who is who.
KT24 is suburban, not rural.
Part of the village is an AONB and there are still two working farms,
Not for much longer Chuck. I'm sure the planning application is already
in to build houses for Ukrainians. What they're gonna eat I don't know.
Fields in the next door village usually grow maise
I have probably mentioned before but here in the Highlands, if there is
an accident then there can often be a full road closure which can mean a
hundred mile diversion which could be awkward if you are relying topping
up the battery.
My daughter and son-in-law were doing the three Peaks - came off Ben Nevis
to find Glencoe closed.
Yes it's a long detour.
In article <59d0cdd702charles@candehope.me.uk>, charles ><charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:[]
In article <jagfb1Fi44aU1@mid.individual.net>, John Williamson
<johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
The denial clause is standard in "fiction" purely to avoid legal
problems.
In most, if not all, books and other material of this type, anyone even
remotely involved knows *exactly* who is who.
I prefer the Good disclaimer: "If anyone believes they are represented in
this work, they should be bloody well ashamed of themselves."
Shoold be GOON disclaimer
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working class people. Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car charged
up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys think the working classes should use public transport, or walk.
I was determined not to have a 'Butterflies household' scenario every
morning !
Twenty six years ago when my dad rang at 8am to say that he'd found my
mother dead in bed I was unable to move my car until I'd woken three teenagers and got their car keys from them.
On Fri, 25 Mar 2022 13:00:45 +0000, williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working class people.
Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car charged
up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys think the
working classes should use public transport, or walk.
Public transport has just been cut again round our way.
There are now about 9 buses a day, M-F, roughly every 90 mins. and
nothing at all now at weekends.
The first one used to be just after 6am, now it's 8:30 or so.
Probably useless for people who need to get to work before 9:15.
The last one is about 18:30; the previous round of cuts stopped them
at about 20:15 and killed the Sunday service.
Prior to that there was a decent service till about 23:15 and a
reasonable weekend service.
This is less than 10 miles from one of England's bigger cities.
Is there any wonder people drive?
Trouble with that is the c*nts who run the council have stuck in
parking charges over huge areas of the city, if you can park at all
because great swathes are dedicated to residents - who do not own the
streets but seem to have privileges as if they did.
And then there's the 'clean-air charging zone' that cuts off loads of
people and businesses with the wrong sort of vehicle from even going
there or transiting through. And there are no realistic alternatives
that don't involve at least a 15 mile detour to get from one side
of the city to another. How fucking stupid is that?
And they wonder why city centres are dead or dying, apart from thugs
and louts who seem to inhabit such places.
No normal people would want to go there anyway any more.
On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 13:44:01 +0000, williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
Twenty six years ago when my dad rang at 8am to say that he'd found my
mother dead in bed I was unable to move my car until I'd woken three
teenagers and got their car keys from them.
17, 18 & 19 ?
And then there's the 'clean-air charging zone' that cuts off loads of
people and businesses with the wrong sort of vehicle from even going
there or transiting through. And there are no realistic alternatives
that don't involve at least a 15 mile detour to get from one side
of the city to another. How fucking stupid is that?
One of my local councillors said delightedly "So you're going to get a
new van then?" (E6 compliant and permitted in the CAZ until they change
the rules again).
I live on the outskirts of a CAZ:
My local shop can't get their usual supplies of milk.
My local butcher can't get deliveries of pork pies.
Builders merchants, car spares suppliers and other business inside the
zone have reported a big drop in trade.
A friend near the CAZ had three plumbers in a row refuse to call when he
told them his address.
One of my local councillors said delightedly "So you're going to get a
new van then?" (E6 compliant and permitted in the CAZ until they change
the rules again). I replied that it had taken me a year to get the van
I wanted and do it up, so I would just be doing my shopping in another
nearby town. She was furious "That's not how it's supposed to work!!!".
For less than the CAZ charge, I can drive well over 30 miles even at the present high price of diesel, so a 20-mile round trip to a nearby town
with free unlimited parking and a leisurely stroll around a good
selection of shops with reasonable prices makes complete sense.
I was in Dingwall last week, all parking in the town is still free. It
has been commented on many time and I don't think anyone knows why. I
think many other towns in the Highland area have similar free parking
though some of the smaller (tourist orientated) ones do have charges.
On 16/04/2022 09:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I live on the outskirts of a CAZ:Sound about right, your plumber would have to add about fifty quid to
My local shop can't get their usual supplies of milk.
My local butcher can't get deliveries of pork pies.
Builders merchants, car spares suppliers and other business inside the
zone have reported a big drop in trade.
A friend near the CAZ had three plumbers in a row refuse to call when he
told them his address.
his bill to get to you.
One of my local councillors said delightedly "So you're going to get aNice to see thinking being "joined up".
new van then?" (E6 compliant and permitted in the CAZ until they change
the rules again). I replied that it had taken me a year to get the van
I wanted and do it up, so I would just be doing my shopping in another
nearby town. She was furious "That's not how it's supposed to work!!!".
For less than the CAZ charge, I can drive well over 30 miles even at theWe are about to get that in the Potteries. Hanley, AKA the "city centre" charges a fortune for parking and will soon have a clean air zone along
present high price of diesel, so a 20-mile round trip to a nearby town
with free unlimited parking and a leisurely stroll around a good
selection of shops with reasonable prices makes complete sense.
the main road leading to the biggest shopping centre in the area, as
well as one of the main roads into the centre. Incidentally, Hanley has
the worst ratio of open shops in the area, with about half of the main shopping street vacant. Some owners have even resorted to putting fake displays in the windows to make the street less depressing, or letting
nearby open shops use the windows for their goods.
Newcastle, Longton and Tunstall, all within less than five miles, have
free parking, and will not be installing clean air zones. Guess where I
don't go shopping unless desperate, and then by bus as often as not?
Mind you, the pandemic has just about killed off all our high streets
round here, except for fast food outlets who use Just Eat or similar.
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 09:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
I live on the outskirts of a CAZ:Sound about right, your plumber would have to add about fifty quid to
My local shop can't get their usual supplies of milk.
My local butcher can't get deliveries of pork pies.
Builders merchants, car spares suppliers and other business inside the
zone have reported a big drop in trade.
A friend near the CAZ had three plumbers in a row refuse to call when he >> told them his address.
his bill to get to you.
One of my local councillors said delightedly "So you're going to get aNice to see thinking being "joined up".
new van then?" (E6 compliant and permitted in the CAZ until they change
the rules again). I replied that it had taken me a year to get the van
I wanted and do it up, so I would just be doing my shopping in another
nearby town. She was furious "That's not how it's supposed to work!!!". >>
For less than the CAZ charge, I can drive well over 30 miles even at the >> present high price of diesel, so a 20-mile round trip to a nearby townWe are about to get that in the Potteries. Hanley, AKA the "city centre" charges a fortune for parking and will soon have a clean air zone along
with free unlimited parking and a leisurely stroll around a good
selection of shops with reasonable prices makes complete sense.
the main road leading to the biggest shopping centre in the area, as
well as one of the main roads into the centre. Incidentally, Hanley has
the worst ratio of open shops in the area, with about half of the main shopping street vacant. Some owners have even resorted to putting fake displays in the windows to make the street less depressing, or letting nearby open shops use the windows for their goods.
Newcastle, Longton and Tunstall, all within less than five miles, have
free parking, and will not be installing clean air zones. Guess where I don't go shopping unless desperate, and then by bus as often as not?
Mind you, the pandemic has just about killed off all our high streets
round here, except for fast food outlets who use Just Eat or similar.
The clean air zones are a thinly disguised attempt to fill holes in council budgets. The reality is that the worst polluting vehicles are largely going to go to the scrap heap in the next few years. And some of the worst offenders are the public transport we are encouraged to use.
On Sun, 20 Mar 2022 11:04:47 +0000, Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:If only we had had doorbell CCTV back then, I'd have kept a look out of chauffeur driven Ford Granadas
I was determined not to have a 'Butterflies household' scenario everyBut what was Mrs.C up to when you were off on all those jollies, er
morning !
business trips, abroad?
I enquired about conversion kits for lorries and vans, but these aren't available.
The clean air zones are a thinly disguised attempt to fill holes in council budgets.
The reality is that the worst polluting vehicles are largely going
to go to the scrap heap in the next few years. And some of the worst offenders are the public transport we are encouraged to use.
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
[...]
The clean air zones are a thinly disguised attempt to fill holes in council >> budgets.
I was 'caught' because of inadequate and misleading signage. I won on
appeal but the signs are still wrong.6 months later.
The reality is that the worst polluting vehicles are largely going
to go to the scrap heap in the next few years. And some of the worst
offenders are the public transport we are encouraged to use.
In Bath most of the pollution was from the buses. When the CAZ came
into force a load of very old buses with conversion kits appeared,
emblazoned with "I'm a clean bus" stickers. The adverts on the side suggested they had come from Cardiff.
I enquired about conversion kits for lorries and vans, but these aren't available.
One of my local councillors said delightedly "So you're going to get a
new van then?" (E6 compliant and permitted in the CAZ until they change
the rules again). I replied that it had taken me a year to get the van
I wanted and do it up, so I would just be doing my shopping in another
nearby town. She was furious "That's not how it's supposed to work!!!".
For less than the CAZ charge, I can drive well over 30 miles even at the present high price of diesel, so a 20-mile round trip to a nearby town
with free unlimited parking and a leisurely stroll around a good
selection of shops with reasonable prices makes complete sense.
"Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message news:t3e2ec$709$1@dont-email.me...
One of my local councillors said delightedly "So you're going to get a >>> new van then?" (E6 compliant and permitted in the CAZ until they change >>> the rules again). I replied that it had taken me a year to get the van >>> I wanted and do it up, so I would just be doing my shopping in another >>> nearby town. She was furious "That's not how it's supposed to work!!!".
Who wants to have to replace a perfectly serviceable go-anywhere vehicle
with an electric one which doesn't produce any pollution where it is driven but has such a poor range that you need to have a second vehicle for any longer journeys?
And the bar is raised too high with the E6 rating because it means that even vehicles which are a ten years old but have DPF and cat are banned, never mind any buses and lorries that may be much older and have no DPF, cat or AdBlue.
"Tweed" <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote in message news:t3e2ec$709$1@dont-email.me...
One of my local councillors said delightedly "So you're going to get
a new van then?" (E6 compliant and permitted in the CAZ until they
change the rules again). I replied that it had taken me a year to
get the van I wanted and do it up, so I would just be doing my
shopping in another nearby town. She was furious "That's not how
it's supposed to work!!!".
Who wants to have to replace a perfectly serviceable go-anywhere vehicle
with an electric one which doesn't produce any pollution where it is
driven but has such a poor range that you need to have a second vehicle
for any longer journeys?
In article <t3e2ec$709$1@dont-email.me>,[]
Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The clean air zones are a thinly disguised attempt to fill holes in council >> budgets. The reality is that the worst polluting vehicles are largely going >> to go to the scrap heap in the next few years. And some of the worst
offenders are the public transport we are encouraged to use.
Bristol decided to enforce a CAZ; the next day they ordered s new fleet of >diesel busses.
On 16/04/2022 09:19, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
For less than the CAZ charge, I can drive well over 30 miles even at the present high price of diesel, so a 20-mile round trip to a nearby town
with free unlimited parking and a leisurely stroll around a good
selection of shops with reasonable prices makes complete sense.
In a smaller way, we have this. Some years ago Doncaster Council started
to charge for parking in Bawtry. A friend of mine had a shop in the
town. Trade slumped disastrously when the parking charge came in and he
had to close the shop in Bawtry. The shop in a nearby town continues to trade. I'm also told by 'someone who knows' (can't name) that other businesses have been similarly affected. It's four miles from Bawtry to Tickhill, where there is a good selection of shops and a free car park.
It's nine miles to Retford, which is a far better shopping town than Bawtry.
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:[]
And the bar is raised too high with the E6 rating because it means that even >> vehicles which are a ten years old but have DPF and cat are banned, never
mind any buses and lorries that may be much older and have no DPF, cat or
AdBlue.
...and, of course the ban will have to apply to hydrogen-powered I.C. >engines, which generate more NOX than a diesel.
In article <t3f0a4$2tg$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:[]
Who wants to have to replace a perfectly serviceable go-anywhere vehicle
with an electric one which doesn't produce any pollution where it is
driven but has such a poor range that you need to have a second vehicle
for any longer journeys?
How long? I've, last week, driven to Edinburgh & back from Surrey.
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 at 20:28:17, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote
How long? I've, last week, driven to Edinburgh & back from Surrey.In an all-electric vehicle? Without stopping to charge part way?
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 at 20:14:00, Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:[]
And the bar is raised too high with the E6 rating because it means that
even vehicles which are a ten years old but have DPF and cat are
banned, never mind any buses and lorries that may be much older and
have no DPF, cat or AdBlue.
...and, of course the ban will have to apply to hydrogen-powered I.C. >engines, which generate more NOX than a diesel.
Should, yes; it won't surprise me if it doesn't, though.
On 16/04/2022 20:59, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 at 20:28:17, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote
How long? I've, last week, driven to Edinburgh & back from Surrey.In an all-electric vehicle? Without stopping to charge part way?
If you want infinite range, then nuclear is the way to go. All cars need
to stop to fuel up, and any sensible driver factors this in to their
journey times. My car, for instance has to stop to be refuelled every
150 miles or so. It's a handy excuse for a sandwich and drink, as well
as using the loo.
My brother's new Nuissan Leaf is only ever recharged at home. If you
want to get yourself from Surrey to Scotland, the train is a sensible
way to do the job anyway, as you can sleep all the way.
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 at 20:28:17, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
In article <t3f0a4$2tg$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:[]
Who wants to have to replace a perfectly serviceable go-anywhere vehicle >> with an electric one which doesn't produce any pollution where it is
driven but has such a poor range that you need to have a second vehicle
for any longer journeys?
How long? I've, last week, driven to Edinburgh & back from Surrey.
In an all-electric vehicle? Without stopping to charge part way?
If no stop, what percentage charge (or miles if it shows that instead)
was showing at the end of each journey?
What make and model of vehicle? I'm definitely interested.
(I presume you _at least_ charged in Edinburgh.)
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 at 12:19:17, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
In article <t3e2ec$709$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com>[]
wrote:
The clean air zones are a thinly disguised attempt to fill holes in
council budgets. The reality is that the worst polluting vehicles are
largely going to go to the scrap heap in the next few years. And some
of the worst offenders are the public transport we are encouraged to
use.
Bristol decided to enforce a CAZ; the next day they ordered s new fleet
of diesel busses.
Was this glaring point covered much by local papers and TV?
In article <IuJCskvQAyWiFwhy@a.a>,
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 at 20:28:17, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
In article <t3f0a4$2tg$1@dont-email.me>, NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:[]
In an all-electric vehicle? Without stopping to charge part way?Who wants to have to replace a perfectly serviceable go-anywhere vehicle >>>> with an electric one which doesn't produce any pollution where it is
driven but has such a poor range that you need to have a second vehicle >>>> for any longer journeys?
How long? I've, last week, driven to Edinburgh & back from Surrey.
Yes and No. I'd never drive 400+ miles non stop, so my coffee stops have charging a dded.
If no stop, what percentage charge (or miles if it shows that instead)
was showing at the end of each journey?
What make and model of vehicle? I'm definitely interested.
(I presume you _at least_ charged in Edinburgh.)
When I could find a working charging point that took credit cards.
The thing that put me off an electric car was observing the two chargers at Scotch Corner services. Both in use and working - good. However there was a third vehicle waiting. So that driver not only has to hang around for the time to charge their vehicle but has to wait for one of the others to
finish. This is only going to get worse before it gets better. At the
moment such chargers largely leech of spare capacity of the existing electrical infrastructure. There’s going to have to be some very expensive fresh infrastructure before we can support mass introduction of electric vehicles. It’s not obvious to me that there is a plan to do this.
The thing that put me off an electric car was observing the two chargers at >Scotch Corner services. Both in use and working - good. However there was a >third vehicle waiting. So that driver not only has to hang around for the >time to charge their vehicle but has to wait for one of the others to
finish. This is only going to get worse before it gets better. At the
moment such chargers largely leech of spare capacity of the existing >electrical infrastructure. Theres going to have to be some very expensive >fresh infrastructure before we can support mass introduction of electric >vehicles. Its not obvious to me that there is a plan to do this.
On 17/04/2022 08:50, Tweed wrote:
The thing that put me off an electric car was observing the two chargers at >> Scotch Corner services. Both in use and working - good. However there was a >> third vehicle waiting. So that driver not only has to hang around for the
time to charge their vehicle but has to wait for one of the others to
finish. This is only going to get worse before it gets better. At the
moment such chargers largely leech of spare capacity of the existing
electrical infrastructure. There’s going to have to be some very expensive >> fresh infrastructure before we can support mass introduction of electric
vehicles. It’s not obvious to me that there is a plan to do this.
That has always struck me as a problem with chargers. Do you wait for
a charger to become free and once you get onto one, you cannot really
go off for hours because you are stopping someone else using it.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 07:50:11 -0000 (UTC), Tweed
<usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
The thing that put me off an electric car was observing the two chargers at >>Scotch Corner services. Both in use and working - good. However there was a >>third vehicle waiting. So that driver not only has to hang around for the >>time to charge their vehicle but has to wait for one of the others to >>finish.
This is only going to get worse before it gets better. At the
moment such chargers largely leech of spare capacity of the existing >>electrical infrastructure. There’s going to have to be some very expensive >>fresh infrastructure before we can support mass introduction of electric >>vehicles. It’s not obvious to me that there is a plan to do this.
Apart from the above, the thing that puts me off an electric car is
the extra twenty grand or more it would cost me to buy one.
Also the fact that the small petrol car I already have is reasonably >economic, doesn't need replacing, and may very well outlast me.
Rod.
Yes. Which could be mitigated to_some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
In article <jc1j7lF1k1oU1@mid.individual.net>,
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 16/04/2022 20:59, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Sat, 16 Apr 2022 at 20:28:17, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote >> >> How long? I've, last week, driven to Edinburgh & back from Surrey.If you want infinite range, then nuclear is the way to go. All cars need
In an all-electric vehicle? Without stopping to charge part way?
to stop to fuel up, and any sensible driver factors this in to their
journey times. My car, for instance has to stop to be refuelled every
150 miles or so. It's a handy excuse for a sandwich and drink, as well
as using the loo.
My brother's new Nuissan Leaf is only ever recharged at home. If you
want to get yourself from Surrey to Scotland, the train is a sensible
way to do the job anyway, as you can sleep all the way.
True and I did that in January. However, I was bringing a lot of equipment >with me, so the car was the logical method of travel.
On 17/04/2022 15:33, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Yes. Which could be mitigated to_some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Not sure about ejecting, might fall in the roadway and be damaged or
damage a passing vehicle or pedestrian.
I would have thought the locking system could unlock the plug allowing someone else to use. But I don't know if that is feasible.
On 17/04/2022 15:33, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Yes. Which could be mitigated to_some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Not sure about ejecting, might fall in the roadway and be damaged or
damage a passing vehicle or pedestrian.
I would have thought the locking system could unlock the plug allowing >someone else to use. But I don't know if that is feasible.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 at 09:19:59, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
On 17/04/2022 08:50, Tweed wrote:
The thing that put me off an electric car was observing the two chargers at
Scotch Corner services. Both in use and working - good. However there was a
third vehicle waiting. So that driver not only has to hang around for the >> time to charge their vehicle but has to wait for one of the others to
finish. This is only going to get worse before it gets better. At the
moment such chargers largely leech of spare capacity of the existing
electrical infrastructure. Theres going to have to be some very expensive >> fresh infrastructure before we can support mass introduction of electric >> vehicles. Its not obvious to me that there is a plan to do this.
That has always struck me as a problem with chargers. Do you wait for
a charger to become free and once you get onto one, you cannot really
go off for hours because you are stopping someone else using it.
Yes. Which could be mitigated to _some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
--
On 17/04/2022 15:33, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Yes. Which could be mitigated to_some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Not sure about ejecting, might fall in the roadway and be damaged or
damage a passing vehicle or pedestrian.
I would have thought the locking system could unlock the plug allowing someone else to use. But I don't know if that is feasible.
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:33, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
Yes. Which could be mitigated to_some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Not sure about ejecting, might fall in the roadway and be damaged or
damage a passing vehicle or pedestrian.
I would have thought the locking system could unlock the plug allowing someone else to use. But I don't know if that is feasible.
Starting to bill a punative parking fee per minute overstay would be more effective.
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is Motorail (drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around the country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but Eurotunnel seem to manage,
so maybe it could be again. (Though of course if they set up a hub in London - or probably most other large cities, if not now then soon -
it'd be inside the congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: they are uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around 100 for a one-way, 35 minute
journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London and see
who's willing to pay.
And they never did and never could carry high volumes of traffic. Bear
in mind various routes already lack capacity for extra services.
-
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is Motorail
(drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around the country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but Eurotunnel seem to manage,
so maybe it could be again. (Though of course if they set up a hub in
London - or probably most other large cities, if not now then soon -
it'd be inside the congestion zone.)
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is Motorail
(drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around the country. I
presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but Eurotunnel seem to manage,
so maybe it could be again. (Though of course if they set up a hub in
London - or probably most other large cities, if not now then soon -
it'd be inside the congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: they are
uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around £100 for a one-way, 35 minute
journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London and see
who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
And they never did and never could carry high volumes of traffic. Bear
in mind various routes already lack capacity for extra services.
-
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is Motorail
(drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around the country. I
presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but Eurotunnel seem to manage,
so maybe it could be again. (Though of course if they set up a hub in
London - or probably most other large cities, if not now then soon -
it'd be inside the congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: they are
uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around £100 for a one-way, 35 minute
journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London and see
who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 at 08:31:24, charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote
(my responses usually FOLLOW):
In article <jc1j7lF1k1oU1@mid.individual.net>,
John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
If you want infinite range, then nuclear is the way to go. All cars need
And a flux-capacitor (-:
to stop to fuel up, and any sensible driver factors this in to their
journey times. My car, for instance has to stop to be refuelled every
150 miles or so. It's a handy excuse for a sandwich and drink, as well
as using the loo.
Yes, but you've got to factor in
o finding the charger
o it being in working order
o other people not using it
o it not needing a moan app to make it work
o quite a _long_ time compared to a petrol/diesel fill.
When I go to Newcastle (from Kent), it is to stay with a blind couple I
know - usually for a fortnight or more; while there, I want to take them places, so need my car. (Newcastle actually has good public transport,
so going into town shopping we take the bus, but say going to the
seaside, or to visit their friend the remote sheep-farmer in the wilds
of Northumberland, or many other things, it's either not possible or
would make the exercise a lot less pleasant.)
On 17/04/2022 17:45, charles wrote:
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is
Motorail (drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around the
country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but Eurotunnel
seem to manage, so maybe it could be again. (Though of course if they
set up a hub in London - or probably most other large cities, if not
now then soon - it'd be inside the congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: they are
uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around 100 for a one-way, 35 minute
journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London and see
who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
Disaggregate into component costs; park those which are fixed (e.g.
possibly the operating cost of loading/unloading); scale up or down
those which scale; reaggregate. And big ones which scale include cost
of rolling stock and staff on them.
-
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:Easy enough, but that would only be usable when the cable is tethered to
I would have thought the locking system could unlock the plug allowing
someone else to use. But I don't know if that is feasible.
Starting to bill a punative parking fee per minute overstay would be more effective.
Somewhere in the last fortnight, I heard a prog. on R4 (I think it was
called "sliced bread"!) that was looking into electric vehicles, from
both the plain cost and the ecological point of view. And that started
from the position your fuel car was beyond economic repair, so was
comparing buying a new fuel-only or a new electric-only, and running it.
I think they used a Vauxhall Corsa, which was/is available in both. (I
don't think they considered the energy cost of scrapping the old
vehicle, as you'd have to do that either way.)
That has always struck me as a problem with chargers. Do you wait for
a charger to become free and once you get onto one, you cannot really
go off for hours because you are stopping someone else using it.
Yes. Which could be mitigated to _some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
In article <778e7cfa-3d11-f330-ae13-fce1c0d1ed68@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 17:45, charles wrote:
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is
Motorail (drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around the >>>>> country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but Eurotunnel
seem to manage, so maybe it could be again. (Though of course if they >>>>> set up a hub in London - or probably most other large cities, if not >>>>> now then soon - it'd be inside the congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: they are >>>> uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around £100 for a one-way, 35 minute
journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London and see >>>> who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
Disaggregate into component costs; park those which are fixed (e.g.
possibly the operating cost of loading/unloading); scale up or down
those which scale; reaggregate. And big ones which scale include cost
of rolling stock and staff on them.
and the Tunnel paying off its debts.
On 17/04/2022 18:36, charles wrote:
In article <778e7cfa-3d11-f330-ae13-fce1c0d1ed68@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 17:45, charles wrote:and the Tunnel paying off its debts.
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is
Motorail (drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around the >>>>>> country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but Eurotunnel >>>>>> seem to manage, so maybe it could be again. (Though of course if they >>>>>> set up a hub in London - or probably most other large cities, if not >>>>>> now then soon - it'd be inside the congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: they are >>>>> uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around 100 for a one-way, 35 minute
journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London and see >>>>> who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
Disaggregate into component costs; park those which are fixed (e.g.
possibly the operating cost of loading/unloading); scale up or down
those which scale; reaggregate. And big ones which scale include cost
of rolling stock and staff on them.
which costs around a third of their revenues. So call it 60 for a 35
minute journey (and I'll let you ignore the financing costs of new
trains and hubs for Motorail 2.0).
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:33:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)" ><G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
That has always struck me as a problem with chargers. Do you wait for
a charger to become free and once you get onto one, you cannot really
go off for hours because you are stopping someone else using it.
Yes. Which could be mitigated to _some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Would it also eject the car from the parking place?
Rod.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 13:38:53, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
On 17/04/2022 18:36, charles wrote:I can't help wondering how much of the 60 (say) is because of the
In article <778e7cfa-3d11-f330-ae13-fce1c0d1ed68@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 17:45, charles wrote:and the Tunnel paying off its debts.
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
<snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is
Motorail (drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around the >>>>>>> country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but Eurotunnel >>>>>>> seem to manage, so maybe it could be again. (Though of course if they >>>>>>> set up a hub in London - or probably most other large cities, if not >>>>>>> now then soon - it'd be inside the congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: they are >>>>>> uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around £100 for a one-way, 35 minute >>>>>> journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London and see >>>>>> who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
Disaggregate into component costs; park those which are fixed (e.g.
possibly the operating cost of loading/unloading); scale up or down
those which scale; reaggregate. And big ones which scale include cost >>>> of rolling stock and staff on them.
which costs around a third of their revenues. So call it £60 for a 35
minute journey (and I'll let you ignore the financing costs of new
trains and hubs for Motorail 2.0).
duopoly situation with Eurotunnel and the ferries - monopoly, if you're
in a hurry. I still think economies of scale - combined with some
lateral thinking on someone's part - _could_ make it work.
Or, even if not, whether green pressure should make it work anyway. But that's unlikely, as (a) no government is keen on subsidies, (b) green
people hate [at least private] cars anyway. (OK, I'm oversimplifying considerably in that last bit. But there's more than a grain of truth in
it.)
charles <charles@candehope.me.uk> wrote:
In article <t3js17$1sv$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 13:38:53, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
On 17/04/2022 18:36, charles wrote:I can't help wondering how much of the 60 (say) is because of the
In article <778e7cfa-3d11-f330-ae13-fce1c0d1ed68@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 17:45, charles wrote:and the Tunnel paying off its debts.
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>, >>>>>>> Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: <snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is >>>>>>>>> Motorail (drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs
around the country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, >>>>>>>>> but Eurotunnel seem to manage, so maybe it could be again. >>>>>>>>> (Though of course if they set up a hub in London - or probably >>>>>>>>> most other large cities, if not now then soon - it'd be inside >>>>>>>>> the congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: >>>>>>>> they are uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around 100 for a one-way, 35
minute journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and >>>>>>>> London and see who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
Disaggregate into component costs; park those which are fixed
(e.g. possibly the operating cost of loading/unloading); scale up >>>>>> or down those which scale; reaggregate. And big ones which scale >>>>>> include cost of rolling stock and staff on them.
which costs around a third of their revenues. So call it 60 for a
35 minute journey (and I'll let you ignore the financing costs of
new trains and hubs for Motorail 2.0).
duopoly situation with Eurotunnel and the ferries - monopoly, if
you're in a hurry. I still think economies of scale - combined with
some lateral thinking on someone's part - _could_ make it work.
Or, even if not, whether green pressure should make it work anyway.
But that's unlikely, as (a) no government is keen on subsidies, (b)
green people hate [at least private] cars anyway. (OK, I'm
oversimplifying considerably in that last bit. But there's more than
a grain of truth in it.)
Just stand by a railway where you can also see a major motorway and
youll soon appreciate how a train carrying cars will make little
impact on road traffic volumes. Alternatively, think how much
equivalent passenger train seating area a car will take up, then add
on the seats in another carriage the car occupants will need. Being
generous, Id estimate my car would need 6 seats equivalent (more
likely 8) , plus two seat in the passenger coach for the driver and
one passenger. Thats 8 train fares you need. Two long distance train
fares are bad enough.
but, if its an overnight service, you'd save hotel bills
That would cost you even more if you added a sleeper. Have you looked at
the prices of the Caledonian Sleeper of late? And that is very heavily subsidised.
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 13:38:53, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
On 17/04/2022 18:36, charles wrote:I can't help wondering how much of the 60 (say) is because of the
In article <778e7cfa-3d11-f330-ae13-fce1c0d1ed68@outlook.com>, Robin
<rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 17:45, charles wrote:and the Tunnel paying off its debts.
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: <snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is
Motorail (drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around >>>>>>> the country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but
Eurotunnel seem to manage, so maybe it could be again. (Though of >>>>>>> course if they set up a hub in London - or probably most other >>>>>>> large cities, if not now then soon - it'd be inside the
congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe:
they are uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around 100 for a one-way, 35 minute >>>>>> journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London
and see who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
Disaggregate into component costs; park those which are fixed (e.g.
possibly the operating cost of loading/unloading); scale up or down
those which scale; reaggregate. And big ones which scale include
cost of rolling stock and staff on them.
which costs around a third of their revenues. So call it 60 for a 35
minute journey (and I'll let you ignore the financing costs of new
trains and hubs for Motorail 2.0).
duopoly situation with Eurotunnel and the ferries - monopoly, if you're
in a hurry. I still think economies of scale - combined with some
lateral thinking on someone's part - _could_ make it work.
Or, even if not, whether green pressure should make it work anyway. But that's unlikely, as (a) no government is keen on subsidies, (b) green people hate [at least private] cars anyway. (OK, I'm oversimplifying considerably in that last bit. But there's more than a grain of truth
in it.)
Just stand by a railway where you can also see a major motorway and
youll soon appreciate how a train carrying cars will make little impact
on road traffic volumes. Alternatively, think how much equivalent
passenger train seating area a car will take up, then add on the seats in another carriage the car occupants will need. Being generous, Id
estimate my car would need 6 seats equivalent (more likely 8) , plus two
seat in the passenger coach for the driver and one passenger. Thats 8
train fares you need. Two long distance train fares are bad enough.
In article <t3js17$1sv$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 13:38:53, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote (my
responses usually FOLLOW):
On 17/04/2022 18:36, charles wrote:I can't help wondering how much of the 60 (say) is because of the
In article <778e7cfa-3d11-f330-ae13-fce1c0d1ed68@outlook.com>, Robin >>>>> <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 17:45, charles wrote:and the Tunnel paying off its debts.
In article <792dad93-dfd5-8ba0-789b-503bb14104d5@outlook.com>,
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 17/04/2022 15:31, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote: <snip>
One thing I think someone should investigate bringing back is >>>>>>>>> Motorail (drive your car onto a train): set up a few hubs around >>>>>>>>> the country. I presume it was killed off as uneconomic, but
Eurotunnel seem to manage, so maybe it could be again. (Though of >>>>>>>>> course if they set up a hub in London - or probably most other >>>>>>>>> large cities, if not now then soon - it'd be inside the
congestion zone.)
There's a reason very few autorail services survive in Europe: >>>>>>>> they are uneconomic.
Eurotunnel prices /start/ at around £100 for a one-way, 35 minute >>>>>>>> journey. Scale that up for a trip between Edinburgh and London >>>>>>>> and see who's willing to pay.
You can't scale it up.
Disaggregate into component costs; park those which are fixed (e.g. >>>>>> possibly the operating cost of loading/unloading); scale up or down >>>>>> those which scale; reaggregate. And big ones which scale include
cost of rolling stock and staff on them.
which costs around a third of their revenues. So call it £60 for a 35 >>>> minute journey (and I'll let you ignore the financing costs of new
trains and hubs for Motorail 2.0).
duopoly situation with Eurotunnel and the ferries - monopoly, if you're
in a hurry. I still think economies of scale - combined with some
lateral thinking on someone's part - _could_ make it work.
Or, even if not, whether green pressure should make it work anyway. But
that's unlikely, as (a) no government is keen on subsidies, (b) green
people hate [at least private] cars anyway. (OK, I'm oversimplifying
considerably in that last bit. But there's more than a grain of truth
in it.)
Just stand by a railway where you can also see a major motorway and
youll soon appreciate how a train carrying cars will make little impact
on road traffic volumes. Alternatively, think how much equivalent
passenger train seating area a car will take up, then add on the seats in
another carriage the car occupants will need. Being generous, Id
estimate my car would need 6 seats equivalent (more likely 8) , plus two
seat in the passenger coach for the driver and one passenger. Thats 8
train fares you need. Two long distance train fares are bad enough.
but, if its an overnight service, you'd save hotel bills
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 11:25:15, Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:33:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
That has always struck me as a problem with chargers. Do you wait for >>>> a charger to become free and once you get onto one, you cannot really
go off for hours because you are stopping someone else using it.
Yes. Which could be mitigated to _some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Would it also eject the car from the parking place?
I did think about that, and thought it'd really involve redesign of the charging stations into more of a star arrangement. But the (lazy) idea
others have suggested of just imposing high charges after 45-60 minutes
will probably prevail in the short to medium term, with enough chargers
being present that it's not a problem being - hopefully! - the solution
in the long term.
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 11:25:15, Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:33:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
That has always struck me as a problem with chargers. Do you wait for >>>> a charger to become free and once you get onto one, you cannot really
go off for hours because you are stopping someone else using it.
Yes. Which could be mitigated to _some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Would it also eject the car from the parking place?
Rod.
I did think about that, and thought it'd really involve redesign of the charging stations into more of a star arrangement. But the (lazy) idea
others have suggested of just imposing high charges after 45-60 minutes
will probably prevail in the short to medium term, with enough chargers
being present that it's not a problem being - hopefully! - the solution
in the long term.
but, if its an overnight service, you'd save hotel bills
They aren't making a big fuss about it nowadays, but I keep seeing chargers popping up an all sorts of places where cars get parked.
Just stand by a railway where you can also see a major motorway and you’ll soon appreciate how a train carrying cars will make little impact on road traffic volumes. Alternatively, think how much equivalent passenger train seating area a car will take up, then add on the seats in another carriage the car occupants will need. Being generous, I’d estimate my car would need 6 seats equivalent (more likely 8) , plus two seat in the passenger coach
for the driver and one passenger. That’s 8 train fares you need. Two long distance train fares are bad enough.
On 18/04/2022 18:00, John Williamson wrote:
They aren't making a big fuss about it nowadays, but I keep seeing chargers popping up an all sorts of places where cars get parked.
Which tends to suggest the site owners are finding it profitable.
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 18/04/2022 18:00, John Williamson wrote:
They aren't making a big fuss about it nowadays, but I keep seeing chargers popping up an all sorts of places where cars get parked.
Which tends to suggest the site owners are finding it profitable.
...Or is a good way of signalling their virtue.
On 18/04/2022 18:00, John Williamson wrote:
They aren't making a big fuss about it nowadays, but I keep seeing
chargers popping up an all sorts of places where cars get parked.
Which tends to suggest the site owners are finding it profitable.
In article <1pqmh60.qyqebdgt4k00N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 18/04/2022 18:00, John Williamson wrote:
They aren't making a big fuss about it nowadays, but I keep seeing
chargers popping up an all sorts of places where cars get parked.
Which tends to suggest the site owners are finding it profitable.
...Or is a good way of signalling their virtue.
Not if it costs them money
In article <1pqmh60.qyqebdgt4k00N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>,
Liz Tuddenham <liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote:
MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:
On 18/04/2022 18:00, John Williamson wrote:
They aren't making a big fuss about it nowadays, but I keep seeing >>>> chargers popping up an all sorts of places where cars get parked.
Which tends to suggest the site owners are finding it profitable.
...Or is a good way of signalling their virtue.
Not if it costs them money
In article <jc5jpgFp4dfU1@mid.individual.net>, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> scribeth thus
On 18/04/2022 14:37, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 11:25:15, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:33:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
That has always struck me as a problem with chargers. Do you wait for >>>>>> a charger to become free and once you get onto one, you cannot really >>>>>> go off for hours because you are stopping someone else using it.
Yes. Which could be mitigated to _some_ extent by having the charger >>>>> eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Would it also eject the car from the parking place?
Rod.
I did think about that, and thought it'd really involve redesign of the
charging stations into more of a star arrangement. But the (lazy) idea
others have suggested of just imposing high charges after 45-60 minutes
will probably prevail in the short to medium term, with enough chargers
being present that it's not a problem being - hopefully! - the solution
in the long term.
They aren't making a big fuss about it nowadays, but I keep seeing
chargers popping up an all sorts of places where cars get parked. Just
look for the empty spaces in otherwise full car parks. For instance,
there are four chargers in a retail park car park near me, and I have
never seen one in use when driving past. Even the local footballs clubs
have some, but the only cars I see using them are company cars used by
staff between matches. (They tend not to be used by fans)
There are also proposals to install slow chargers on street lamps,
though they would need to upgrade the wiring, so it would probably be
done while upgrading the lighting. Round here, they have been upgrading
the mains feeds in a lot of streets, but that is also linked with the
expected push for heat pumps as gas is retired as well as new housing.
Now these streets in Cambridge may tax the best brains around for a
practical solution!
Perhaps some overhead hanging wires like very old petrol pumps that
were used many years ago!
In roadway inductive systems perhaps?
And the local green council what peeps to give up their fossil cars;!..
On 18/04/2022 14:37, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
On Mon, 18 Apr 2022 at 11:25:15, Roderick Stewart
<rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote (my responses usually FOLLOW):
On Sun, 17 Apr 2022 15:33:50 +0100, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
That has always struck me as a problem with chargers. Do you wait for >>>>> a charger to become free and once you get onto one, you cannot really >>>>> go off for hours because you are stopping someone else using it.
Yes. Which could be mitigated to _some_ extent by having the charger
eject the plug when either full or after a fixed time.
Would it also eject the car from the parking place?
Rod.
I did think about that, and thought it'd really involve redesign of the
charging stations into more of a star arrangement. But the (lazy) idea
others have suggested of just imposing high charges after 45-60 minutes
will probably prevail in the short to medium term, with enough chargers
being present that it's not a problem being - hopefully! - the solution
in the long term.
They aren't making a big fuss about it nowadays, but I keep seeing
chargers popping up an all sorts of places where cars get parked. Just
look for the empty spaces in otherwise full car parks. For instance,
there are four chargers in a retail park car park near me, and I have
never seen one in use when driving past. Even the local footballs clubs
have some, but the only cars I see using them are company cars used by
staff between matches. (They tend not to be used by fans)
There are also proposals to install slow chargers on street lamps,
though they would need to upgrade the wiring, so it would probably be
done while upgrading the lighting. Round here, they have been upgrading
the mains feeds in a lot of streets, but that is also linked with the >expected push for heat pumps as gas is retired as well as new housing.
Now these streets in Cambridge may tax the best brains around for a
practical solution!
How many of the people in that street actually *need* a car of their own?
On 19/04/2022 14:43, tony sayer wrote:
Now these streets in Cambridge may tax the best brains around for a
practical solution!
Pavement ducts are being trialled by various councils which allow
charging from homes. See e.g. the other place:
https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/1956/volunteers_sought_for_electric_vehicle_charging_trials_in_oxfordshire
On 19/04/2022 17:38, Tweed wrote:
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 19/04/2022 14:43, tony sayer wrote:
Now these streets in Cambridge may tax the best brains around for a
practical solution!
Pavement ducts are being trialled by various councils which allow
charging from homes. See e.g. the other place:
https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/1956/volunteers_sought_for_electric_vehicle_charging_trials_in_oxfordshire
So what do you do when someone parks on the road outside your house?
a non-exhaustive list of options:
1. wait until you can get outside your house
2. use a supply from a lamp post (which in that road could also involve
a pavement slot)
3. accept that things change, not always for the better, and consider no longer owning a car
So what do you do when someone parks on the road outside your house?
a non-exhaustive list of options:
1. wait until you can get outside your house
2. use a supply from a lamp post (which in that road could also
involve a pavement slo
3. accept that things change, not always for the better, and consider no longer owning a car
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 19/04/2022 14:43, tony sayer wrote:
Now these streets in Cambridge may tax the best brains around for a
practical solution!
Pavement ducts are being trialled by various councils which allow
charging from homes. See e.g. the other place:
https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/1956/volunteers_sought_for_electric_vehicle_charging_trials_in_oxfordshire
So what do you do when someone parks on the road outside your house?
Or
does everyone get an allocated space?
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 19/04/2022 17:38, Tweed wrote:Having see the problems my son had finding a parking space anywhere near
Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote:
On 19/04/2022 14:43, tony sayer wrote:
Now these streets in Cambridge may tax the best brains around for a
practical solution!
Pavement ducts are being trialled by various councils which allow
charging from homes. See e.g. the other place:
https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/1956/volunteers_sought_for_electric_vehicle_charging_trials_in_oxfordshire
So what do you do when someone parks on the road outside your house?
a non-exhaustive list of options:
1. wait until you can get outside your house
2. use a supply from a lamp post (which in that road could also involve
a pavement slot)
3. accept that things change, not always for the better, and consider no >> longer owning a car
his rented house in Brighton (that was covered by a resident parking
scheme), the idea that you can wait for the spot outside your house to
become free in fanciful. I suspect most streets without off street parking suffer from this, so the idea of a lead from your own house seems a non starter to me for most.
There are very many jobs that need a car to get to, either because the job isn’t on a convenient bus route, or because of the hours worked.
There are very many jobs that need a car to get to, either because the job >isn’t on a convenient bus route, or because of the hours worked.
On 19/04/2022 14:43, tony sayer wrote:
Now these streets in Cambridge may tax the best brains around for a
practical solution!
Pavement ducts are being trialled by various councils which allow
charging from homes. See e.g. the other place:
https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/1956/volunteers_sought_for_electr >ic_vehicle_charging_trials_in_oxfordshire
There are indeed many such jobs in absolute terms. But what
proportion of residents in streets like that one in Cambridge
objectively need a car for such travel? And how many of them work
close enough for [cheaper when driverless] taxis to deal with out of
hours travel?
On 19/04/2022 20:05, Robin wrote:
There are indeed many such jobs in absolute terms. But what
proportion of residents in streets like that one in Cambridge
objectively need a car for such travel? And how many of them work
close enough for [cheaper when driverless] taxis to deal with out of
hours travel?
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
On 19/04/2022 20:05, Robin wrote:
There are indeed many such jobs in absolute terms. But what
proportion of residents in streets like that one in Cambridge
objectively need a car for such travel? And how many of them work
close enough for [cheaper when driverless] taxis to deal with out of
hours travel?
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
On 20/04/2022 08:46, Mark Carver wrote:
On 19/04/2022 20:05, Robin wrote:That works well, as long as there are enough charging points at work.
There are indeed many such jobs in absolute terms. But what
proportion of residents in streets like that one in Cambridge
objectively need a car for such travel? And how many of them work
close enough for [cheaper when driverless] taxis to deal with out of
hours travel?
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
When I was doing it, I had to work out a way to get a secure, metered
supply to where I parked mine.
Usually there are just enough points for the boss and their deputy,
and maybe the occasional visitor.
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
On 20/04/2022 08:46, Mark Carver wrote:
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
Many factors, if there is a company car park then perhaps convenient
though many councils discourage companies providing parking.
On 20/04/2022 11:43, MB wrote:
On 20/04/2022 08:46, Mark Carver wrote:Yerss, some are now charging rates on parking spaces and a levy on
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
Many factors, if there is a company car park then perhaps convenient
though many councils discourage companies providing parking.
parking spaces at new sites.
On 20/04/2022 13:00, John Williamson wrote:
On 20/04/2022 11:43, MB wrote:However, 'letric parking spaces ought to be levy exempt, and/or gain
On 20/04/2022 08:46, Mark Carver wrote:Yerss, some are now charging rates on parking spaces and a levy on
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge >>>> it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
Many factors, if there is a company car park then perhaps convenient
though many councils discourage companies providing parking.
parking spaces at new sites.
brownie points.
It requires proper legislative joined up thinking (Yes, I know !)
On 19/04/2022 20:05, Robin wrote:
There are indeed many such jobs in absolute terms. But what
proportion of residents in streets like that one in Cambridge
objectively need a car for such travel? And how many of them work
close enough for [cheaper when driverless] taxis to deal with out of
hours travel?
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
In article <t3park$cfd$1@dont-email.me>, Tweed <usenet.tweed@gmail.com> wrote:
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/04/2022 20:05, Robin wrote:In the utopian world your local hospital will have a charge point in
There are indeed many such jobs in absolute terms. But what
proportion of residents in streets like that one in Cambridge
objectively need a car for such travel? And how many of them work
close enough for [cheaper when driverless] taxis to deal with out of
hours travel?
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
every staff parking bay, and every staff member will have a bay.
Meanwhile in the real world..
I've seen a photo of a car park in Sweden where every slot had an
elctricity supply for a sump heater. The concept exists.
Mark Carver <mark.carver@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 19/04/2022 20:05, Robin wrote:
There are indeed many such jobs in absolute terms. But what
proportion of residents in streets like that one in Cambridge
objectively need a car for such travel? And how many of them work
close enough for [cheaper when driverless] taxis to deal with out of
hours travel?
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
In the utopian world your local hospital will have a charge point in
every staff parking bay, and every staff member will have a bay.
Meanwhile in the real world..
Yes. My son works for a large company, and they have free charging for
staff. Fortunately his hours are 6am to 3pm !
On 20/04/2022 09:36, Mark Carver wrote:
Yes. My son works for a large company, and they have free charging
for staff. Fortunately his hours are 6am to 3pm !
Do you get free milk and cream?
On 20/04/2022 17:55, williamwright wrote:
On 20/04/2022 09:36, Mark Carver wrote:
Yes. My son works for a large company, and they have free charging
for staff. Fortunately his hours are 6am to 3pm !
Do you get free milk and cream?
No, but we get the company's primary products at a useful discount
On 20/04/2022 18:03, Mark Carver wrote:Some of it, yes.
On 20/04/2022 17:55, williamwright wrote:
On 20/04/2022 09:36, Mark Carver wrote:
Yes. My son works for a large company, and they have free charging
for staff. Fortunately his hours are 6am to 3pm !
Do you get free milk and cream?
No, but we get the company's primary products at a useful discount
Is it cheesy stuff?
Indeed it does, but this is the UK that builds hospitals without adequate staff parking, often with the excuse that they have a bus service, which
then doesn’t run 24/7.
On 19/04/2022 14:43, tony sayer wrote:
Now these streets in Cambridge may tax the best brains around for a
practical solution!
Pavement ducts are being trialled by various councils which allow
charging from homes. See e.g. the other place:
https://www.oxford.gov.uk/news/article/1956/volunteers_sought_for_electric_vehic
le_charging_trials_in_oxfordshire
On 20/04/2022 18:02, Tweed wrote:
Indeed it does, but this is the UK that builds hospitals without adequate
staff parking, often with the excuse that they have a bus service, which
then doesn’t run 24/7.
And often charges their own staff for parking.
OK so maybe thats where the idea of an overhead system will work clear
of the pavement but how will it be implemented maybe an arm thats on
most every house that swings out and a cable can be pulled down and the
car plugged in.
Yes they do they here, farm that out to a parking company the profits
are to go to the running of the hospital!.
... farm that out to a parking company the profits
are to go to the running of the hospital!.
Bristol decided to enforce a CAZ; the next day they ordered s new fleet of >>diesel busses.Was this glaring point covered much by local papers and TV?
On 20/04/2022 23:31, tony sayer wrote:
Yes they do they here, farm that out to a parking company the profits
are to go to the running of the hospital!.
And the parking company will make a nice profit as well dishing out
penalty notices as often as possible to maximise profits.
Well the ones at Addenbrookes aren't too expensive, if your a in-patient there you get a concession.
Had to go there the other day mate of mine left his car lights on
overnight so needed a jump start. I was there for around 15 mins went to
go out seemed that was free of charge!...
My local hospital lets you stay for 20 minutes free of charge, and uses
ANPR to calculate the amount you need to pay, only opening the exit
barrier after you have paid. This is also done usig ANPR. If you are an
in patient, you get free parking for the duration of your stay.
Surely a solution for a vehicle mostly used for commuting, is to charge
it at the workplace, rather than at home ?
Middle class greenys don't give a fig for ordinary working class people. >>> Ultimately it will be the car owner's problem to keep his car charged
up. If he can't, well that just too bad. No car. The greenys think the
working classes should use public transport, or walk.
Public transport has just been cut again round our way.
There are now about 9 buses a day, M-F, roughly every 90 mins. and
nothing at all now at weekends.
The first one used to be just after 6am, now it's 8:30 or so.
Probably useless for people who need to get to work before 9:15.
The last one is about 18:30; the previous round of cuts stopped them
at about 20:15 and killed the Sunday service.
Prior to that there was a decent service till about 23:15 and a
reasonable weekend service.
This is less than 10 miles from one of England's bigger cities.
Is there any wonder people drive?
Trouble with that is the c*nts who run the council have stuck in
parking charges over huge areas of the city, if you can park at all
because great swathes are dedicated to residents - who do not own the
streets but seem to have privileges as if they did.
And then there's the 'clean-air charging zone' that cuts off loads of
people and businesses with the wrong sort of vehicle from even going
there or transiting through. And there are no realistic alternatives
that don't involve at least a 15 mile detour to get from one side
of the city to another. How fucking stupid is that?
And they wonder why city centres are dead or dying, apart from thugs
and louts who seem to inhabit such places.
No normal people would want to go there anyway any more.
Nottingham.
Twenty six years ago when my dad rang at 8am to say that he'd found my
mother dead in bed I was unable to move my car until I'd woken three
teenagers and got their car keys from them.
17, 18 & 19 ?
17, 17, and 19.
Indeed it does, but this is the UK that builds hospitals without adequate staff parking, often with the excuse that they have a bus service, which
then doesn???t run 24/7.
Yes. My son works for a large company, and they have free charging for
staff.
Oh, I never realised reading all your ramblings all this time that there
were twins there.
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