• Not so much VVS as 45-degree VS ;-)

    From NY@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 21 14:12:04 2022
    Why do people with mobile phones have so much difficulty holding them
    straight? I can understand vertical video (portrait format) if the subject
    is shaped that way, although it doesn't lend itself to being shown on TV and it's very unconventional.

    But what's with 45-degree video? https://westleedsdispatch.com/incredible-footage-shows-pontoon-destroy-bridge-near-armley-mills/
    (second video on the page). Warning: the F-word is used several times,
    hardly surprising given what they are witnessing ;-)


    For the benefit of Brian, both videos show (from different angles) a flowing pontoon that had been moored on the River Aire upstream of the centre of
    Leeds to do flood-remediation work (how ironic) and had been wrenched free
    by the strong current, taking a couple of JCB-like diggers and a tank of
    diesel with it. The diggers were knocked off by collision with an earlier bridge and are probably at the bottom of the river, but the pontoon has continued and now hits a low footbridge (looks like concrete slabs just
    above the water level), fracturing it and tipping the slabs on end so they
    too are carried downstream.

    I presume a lot of the debris will have been stopped by a weir further on
    and can be retrieved when the river level and speed goes down, although on
    an earlier video someone posted that the diggers were now underneath "the station" and causing havoc - surely that isn't "the dark arches" below Leeds City Station...

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  • From John Williamson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 21 14:26:46 2022
    On 21/02/2022 14:12, NY wrote:
    Why do people with mobile phones have so much difficulty holding them straight? I can understand vertical video (portrait format) if the
    subject is shaped that way, although it doesn't lend itself to being
    shown on TV and it's very unconventional.

    But what's with 45-degree video? https://westleedsdispatch.com/incredible-footage-shows-pontoon-destroy-bridge-near-armley-mills/
    (second video on the page). Warning: the F-word is used several times,
    hardly surprising given what they are witnessing ;-)

    "Don't worry, they will fix it in post"

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

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  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to me@privacy.invalid on Mon Feb 21 15:51:41 2022
    NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    But what's with 45-degree video?

    It was highly praised when used artistically in "The Third Man".

    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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  • From Max Demian@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 21 17:01:24 2022
    On 21/02/2022 14:12, NY wrote:
    Why do people with mobile phones have so much difficulty holding them straight? I can understand vertical video (portrait format) if the
    subject is shaped that way, although it doesn't lend itself to being
    shown on TV and it's very unconventional.

    But what's with 45-degree video? https://westleedsdispatch.com/incredible-footage-shows-pontoon-destroy-bridge-near-armley-mills/
    (second video on the page). Warning: the F-word is used several times,
    hardly surprising given what they are witnessing ;-)

    It switches to horizontal half way through. That's not uncommon on
    YouTube: or they start vertical and switch to horizontal. Or upside down.

    --
    Max Demian

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  • From John Williamson@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Mon Feb 21 17:10:44 2022
    On 21/02/2022 15:51, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    But what's with 45-degree video?

    It was highly praised when used artistically in "The Third Man".

    Not to mention the 1960s Batman series. IIRC, it was called "Dutch Tilt!

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

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  • From NY@21:1/5 to John Williamson on Mon Feb 21 22:17:45 2022
    "John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:j7hvclFk8fkU1@mid.individual.net...
    On 21/02/2022 15:51, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    But what's with 45-degree video?

    It was highly praised when used artistically in "The Third Man".

    Not to mention the 1960s Batman series. IIRC, it was called "Dutch Tilt!

    There was a trend in the 1990s for documentary directors to use a Dutch tilt whenever presenters were delivering their piece to camera during a report,
    so you got their head in the top left corner and their feet/waist in the
    bottom right. It looked very naff. Like all gimmicks it should be used sparingly and when there is a compelling reason for it - for example to
    convey a POV of a disorientated character, as for the "Hitchcock shot" dolly/zoom (*) that was used in Vertigo to convey the character's vertigo
    when he looked down.

    However I doubt very much that any thoughts like this were going through the mind of the woman who was filming this. She just couldn't hold the camera
    even approximately level.

    I am occasionally guilty of VVS or upside-down video when using a phone
    camera (I can never remember which way round is the right way up for
    landscape shots), but that's what the "rotate" facility of most video
    editing packages is there for ;-) Even with a conventional SLR I've done it very occasionally when I've been taking still photos in portrait mode and I switch to video without remembering to re-frame for landscape video.

    I had to rescue a video that my wife shot as she walked around the garden of our new house, describing parts of it for her parents for whom she was
    making the video. She alternated between portrait and landscape, and had a tendency to move the camera violently for the first and last few seconds of each segment, so I chose to rotate the VVS bits to portrait-within-black-landscape-borders (**), and to freeze to a still frame just before she jerked the camera. She was filming and giving a commentary
    as she went (ie she wasn't in shot) I thought about removing the synchronous commentary altogether, editing the shots and then putting back an edited version of the commentary so the voice and pictures still roughly
    corresponded - but I couldn't be arsed to go to those lengths.


    (*) I remember at my old school there was a long corridor with slightly
    smaller doorframes every so often. I had never seen Vertigo, but as I walked along the corridor I wondered idly what it would look like if you dollied in and zoomed out (or vice versa) to keep one of the door frames the same size.
    I was a bit miffed to discover that Hitch had got there about 20 years
    before me ;-)

    (**) In some cases zoomed-in slightly if there wasn't anything too critical
    and top and bottom, so as to reduce the width of the borders a little.

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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to John Williamson on Tue Feb 22 09:13:51 2022
    Well I never knew that. Back in the mid 80s, I could see photos and have a great picture taken out from behind the pilot of the plane, with the camera level with the plane, of the island of Alderney and the sea around it at an angle as we made our approach from the left of the runway, so to speak. It
    was a blue sky calm day. Very interesting shot I thought.
    Sadly these arty farty shots are now no good to me.
    Brian

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    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "John Williamson" <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:j7hvclFk8fkU1@mid.individual.net...
    On 21/02/2022 15:51, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    NY <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    But what's with 45-degree video?

    It was highly praised when used artistically in "The Third Man".

    Not to mention the 1960s Batman series. IIRC, it was called "Dutch Tilt!

    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.

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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to me@privacy.invalid on Tue Feb 22 09:08:52 2022
    That is odd as my phone feeds back to me the angle as well, though
    headphones.
    Most people can see however.
    I often wonder if its really worth me doing a video, I did try it when I
    got the new IOS with these functions, like it would say things like one
    person to left of centre tilt left.
    You could get the knack of it, but I don't bother any more as I obviously cannot see the result so what is the point?

    The camera mainly gets used for bar codes qrk nd Navilens codes, and OCR now
    to help me read packaging and letters.
    Brian

    --

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    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote in message
    news:sv06l4$lim$1@dont-email.me...
    Why do people with mobile phones have so much difficulty holding them straight? I can understand vertical video (portrait format) if the subject
    is shaped that way, although it doesn't lend itself to being shown on TV
    and it's very unconventional.

    But what's with 45-degree video? https://westleedsdispatch.com/incredible-footage-shows-pontoon-destroy-bridge-near-armley-mills/
    (second video on the page). Warning: the F-word is used several times,
    hardly surprising given what they are witnessing ;-)


    For the benefit of Brian, both videos show (from different angles) a
    flowing pontoon that had been moored on the River Aire upstream of the
    centre of Leeds to do flood-remediation work (how ironic) and had been wrenched free by the strong current, taking a couple of JCB-like diggers
    and a tank of diesel with it. The diggers were knocked off by collision
    with an earlier bridge and are probably at the bottom of the river, but
    the pontoon has continued and now hits a low footbridge (looks like
    concrete slabs just above the water level), fracturing it and tipping the slabs on end so they too are carried downstream.

    I presume a lot of the debris will have been stopped by a weir further on
    and can be retrieved when the river level and speed goes down, although on
    an earlier video someone posted that the diggers were now underneath "the station" and causing havoc - surely that isn't "the dark arches" below
    Leeds City Station...

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  • From Roderick Stewart@21:1/5 to me@privacy.invalid on Tue Feb 22 09:44:03 2022
    On Mon, 21 Feb 2022 14:12:04 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    Why do people with mobile phones have so much difficulty holding them >straight? I can understand vertical video (portrait format) if the subject
    is shaped that way, although it doesn't lend itself to being shown on TV and >it's very unconventional.

    But what's with 45-degree video? >https://westleedsdispatch.com/incredible-footage-shows-pontoon-destroy-bridge-near-armley-mills/
    (second video on the page). Warning: the F-word is used several times,
    hardly surprising given what they are witnessing ;-)

    Not to mention recording on the soundtrack "I got that on video",
    sometimes several times, a fact that will be self evident if true. Professionals never do this.

    Rod.

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  • From NY@21:1/5 to Roderick Stewart on Tue Feb 22 14:33:42 2022
    "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message news:7rb91h9b8ub1ce4kfuqqja2ccemp67jpn8@4ax.com...
    Not to mention recording on the soundtrack "I got that on video",
    sometimes several times, a fact that will be self evident if true. Professionals never do this.

    I presume the "I got that on video" is telling a friend who is with you that you are filming, rather than as a commentary to whoever watches it
    afterwards. A classic case of forgetting that whatever you say will be
    picked up by the mike.

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  • From williamwright@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 22 14:41:11 2022
    On 22/02/2022 14:33, NY wrote:
    "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message news:7rb91h9b8ub1ce4kfuqqja2ccemp67jpn8@4ax.com...
    Not to mention recording on the soundtrack "I got that on video",
    sometimes several times, a fact that will be self evident if true.
    Professionals never do this.

    I presume the "I got that on video" is telling a friend who is with you
    that you are filming, rather than as a commentary to whoever watches it afterwards. A classic case of forgetting that whatever you say will be
    picked up by the mike.

    I have a video of the floods presently threatening Fishlake and the
    soundtrack is mostly an insistent little voice saying, "I want a wee! I
    really really do need a wee Mummy!"

    Incidentally did anyone see or hear my daughter and her husband talking
    about the floods on Sky News or LBC?

    Bill

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  • From Roderick Stewart@21:1/5 to me@privacy.invalid on Wed Feb 23 09:26:10 2022
    On Tue, 22 Feb 2022 14:33:42 -0000, "NY" <me@privacy.invalid> wrote:

    "Roderick Stewart" <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote in message >news:7rb91h9b8ub1ce4kfuqqja2ccemp67jpn8@4ax.com...
    Not to mention recording on the soundtrack "I got that on video",
    sometimes several times, a fact that will be self evident if true.
    Professionals never do this.

    I presume the "I got that on video" is telling a friend who is with you that >you are filming, rather than as a commentary to whoever watches it >afterwards. A classic case of forgetting that whatever you say will be
    picked up by the mike.

    They often seem to forget what they're doing themselves, and that
    nobody will see anything of what is happening if they don't keep the
    camera framed and focused upon it. A common feature of amateur video
    is that the camera pans away from the action the moment the amusing
    thing happens, so that we miss the start of it, and then it's as if
    the operator suddenly remembers they're using a camera and hastily
    restores a wobbly badly framed shot of the aftermath, at which point
    we are presumably expected to join in with the distorted manic
    laughter on the soundtrack, even though it may not be obvious what is
    supposed to be funny.

    Keeping a shot framed in a viewfinder looks like a simple skill, but
    not everyone can do it. Inevitably when you are photographing
    something you are physically present at the scene, so must mentally
    detach your view of the image from your direct view of the subject.
    Some people just don't seem to get it at all.

    Rod.

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Roderick Stewart on Wed Feb 23 10:08:22 2022
    Roderick Stewart wrote:

    A common feature of amateur video
    is that the camera pans away from the action the moment the amusing
    thing happens, so that we miss the start of it, and then it's as if
    the operator suddenly remembers they're using a camera and hastily
    restores a wobbly badly framed shot of the aftermath

    Pretty much the case with that church steeple the other day.

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  • From Robin@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Feb 23 10:38:26 2022
    On 23/02/2022 10:16, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

    ...Inevitably when you are photographing
    something you are physically present at the scene, so must mentally
    detach your view of the image from your direct view of the subject.
    Some people just don't seem to get it at all.

    Some do it a little too successfully, such as the photographer during
    the trial of the 'Panjandrum', who nearly got run over by the thing he
    was filming.


    His was just part of the wider fortitude ;)

    --
    Robin
    reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Roderick Stewart on Wed Feb 23 10:16:32 2022
    Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

    ...Inevitably when you are photographing
    something you are physically present at the scene, so must mentally
    detach your view of the image from your direct view of the subject.
    Some people just don't seem to get it at all.

    Some do it a little too successfully, such as the photographer during
    the trial of the 'Panjandrum', who nearly got run over by the thing he
    was filming.

    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 25 10:19:56 2022
    There have been many times in the past where cine photographers using hand
    held devices have been so intent on following the action that they got
    involved in it themselves. I bet there are quite a few on youtube. Obviously
    I cannot see them these days, but two sprint to mind. They guy during the
    war panning around a V2 rocket launch site and then when the rocket lit, the thrust was not high enough and it went sideways toward him and likely for
    him, exploded before it got to him. Then there was the Hindenburg fire not the one taken from the tripod but the obviously hand held one you often see where he pans over the burning airship.
    There was also one at a rally in the UK where a cameraman was still controlling his camera when the car left the road on a corner and rolled
    over toward him at obvious close quarters.

    I think people become detached from the scene by looking at the viewfinder, not the world outside.
    A Russian army officer was killed at a launch some years ago when a rocket malfunctioned just above the clouds and fell back down and killed him. The
    film showed him standing watching far too close in for safety.

    Brian

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    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Robin" <rbw@outlook.com> wrote in message news:f7b86644-4bcc-db98-ff87-3b35b7efd6d8@outlook.com...
    On 23/02/2022 10:16, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    Roderick Stewart <rjfs@escapetime.myzen.co.uk> wrote:

    ...Inevitably when you are photographing
    something you are physically present at the scene, so must mentally
    detach your view of the image from your direct view of the subject.
    Some people just don't seem to get it at all.

    Some do it a little too successfully, such as the photographer during
    the trial of the 'Panjandrum', who nearly got run over by the thing he
    was filming.


    His was just part of the wider fortitude ;)

    --
    Robin
    reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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  • From Robin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 25 11:06:15 2022
    Although by "part of the wider fortitude" I had in mind the theory that
    the Panjandrum was never intended for use but was part of Operation
    Fortitude. That was the operation to persuade the Germans the landings
    would be in Pas de Calais.

    On 25/02/2022 10:19, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
    There have been many times in the past where cine photographers using hand held devices have been so intent on following the action that they got involved in it themselves. I bet there are quite a few on youtube. Obviously I cannot see them these days, but two sprint to mind. They guy during the
    war panning around a V2 rocket launch site and then when the rocket lit, the thrust was not high enough and it went sideways toward him and likely for him, exploded before it got to him. Then there was the Hindenburg fire not the one taken from the tripod but the obviously hand held one you often see where he pans over the burning airship.
    There was also one at a rally in the UK where a cameraman was still controlling his camera when the car left the road on a corner and rolled
    over toward him at obvious close quarters.

    I think people become detached from the scene by looking at the viewfinder, not the world outside.
    A Russian army officer was killed at a launch some years ago when a rocket malfunctioned just above the clouds and fell back down and killed him. The film showed him standing watching far too close in for safety.

    Brian



    --
    Robin
    reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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