• The podcast industry

    From Pamela@21:1/5 to All on Tue Feb 8 15:35:18 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    Some radio stations, such as LBC, put old programmes as a podcast.
    These can be streamed from various podcast outlets with apps like
    Spotify, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, etc.

    Where do the podcast outlets obtain their podcasts from? Is there a
    central clearing place which a podcaster like LBC uploads its podcast
    to and then the streaming companies take a copy? Alternatively, does
    LBC upload to each individual podcast streaming outlet separately?

    Do the competing "big player" podcast outlets have broadly similar
    catalogues or would a listener need several different apps to track
    down a particular podcast?

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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to Pamela on Wed Feb 9 07:45:30 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    It used to be so simple. You put up your file then did an rss link to it and sent it to google, or had feedburner look at the rss and keep a master list. Then Goggle withdrew the service and the whole thing became a mess. Apple
    tend to do a directory, but they prefer it in their format, not rss and that enables them to use DRM.
    Now the big players all tend to have a chargeable podcast tier and even
    attach adverts to the free stuff to make money. Now I know that everyone has
    to fund a bit of web space, bandwidth etc, but it is beginning to look like
    the one man band podcast days are numbered now. I tend these days to say,
    if its not got an rss feed then get stuffed.
    Brian

    --

    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Pamela" <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote in message news:XnsAE389E92B604737B93@144.76.35.252...
    Some radio stations, such as LBC, put old programmes as a podcast.
    These can be streamed from various podcast outlets with apps like
    Spotify, Pocket Casts, Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, etc.

    Where do the podcast outlets obtain their podcasts from? Is there a
    central clearing place which a podcaster like LBC uploads its podcast
    to and then the streaming companies take a copy? Alternatively, does
    LBC upload to each individual podcast streaming outlet separately?

    Do the competing "big player" podcast outlets have broadly similar
    catalogues or would a listener need several different apps to track
    down a particular podcast?


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  • From Max Demian@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 9 11:55:41 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 09/02/2022 07:45, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

    It used to be so simple. You put up your file then did an rss link to it and sent it to google, or had feedburner look at the rss and keep a master list. Then Goggle withdrew the service and the whole thing became a mess. Apple tend to do a directory, but they prefer it in their format, not rss and that enables them to use DRM.
    Now the big players all tend to have a chargeable podcast tier and even attach adverts to the free stuff to make money. Now I know that everyone has to fund a bit of web space, bandwidth etc, but it is beginning to look like the one man band podcast days are numbered now. I tend these days to say,
    if its not got an rss feed then get stuffed.

    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The search
    box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the BBC
    Sounds app even if all you want is information about the programme, and
    they don't properly distinguish between programmes which are podcasts
    and those that aren't. It's also difficult to find the RSS feed address
    to put into a third party podcatcher such as Podcast Addict.

    --
    Max Demian

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to All on Wed Feb 9 11:19:52 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 07:45 9 Feb 2022, Brian Gaff (Sofa) said:

    It used to be so simple. You put up your file then did an rss link to
    it and sent it to google, or had feedburner look at the rss and keep
    a master list. Then Goggle withdrew the service and the whole thing
    became a mess. Apple tend to do a directory, but they prefer it in
    their format, not rss and that enables them to use DRM.

    Now the big players all tend to have a chargeable podcast tier and
    even attach adverts to the free stuff to make money. Now I know that
    everyone has to fund a bit of web space, bandwidth etc, but it is
    beginning to look like the one man band podcast days are numbered
    now. I tend these days to say, if its not got an rss feed then get
    stuffed.
    Brian

    Thanks for the info. I hadn't realised Google had run that service. I'd
    been looking at how the how the podcasting industry works in the present (distribution, lack of royalties, catalogues, main players, etc) but the history seems important. Wikipedia has an entry on this.

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  • From MB@21:1/5 to Max Demian on Wed Feb 9 12:20:10 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 09/02/2022 11:55, Max Demian wrote:
    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The search
    box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the BBC
    Sounds app even if all you want is information about the programme, and
    they don't properly distinguish between programmes which are podcasts
    and those that aren't. It's also difficult to find the RSS feed address
    to put into a third party podcatcher such as Podcast Addict.

    That applies to find anything on the BBC website, the search system is
    too crude and difficult to target the search precisely.

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Max Demian on Wed Feb 9 19:51:06 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 11:55 9 Feb 2022, Max Demian said:

    On 09/02/2022 07:45, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

    It used to be so simple. You put up your file then did an rss link
    to it and sent it to google, or had feedburner look at the rss and
    keep a master list. Then Goggle withdrew the service and the whole
    thing became a mess. Apple tend to do a directory, but they prefer
    it in their format, not rss and that enables them to use DRM.

    Now the big players all tend to have a chargeable podcast tier and
    even attach adverts to the free stuff to make money. Now I know that
    everyone has to fund a bit of web space, bandwidth etc, but it is
    beginning to look like the one man band podcast days are numbered
    now. I tend these days to say, if its not got an rss feed then get
    stuffed.

    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The
    search box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the
    BBC Sounds app even if all you want is information about the
    programme, and they don't properly distinguish between programmes
    which are podcasts and those that aren't. It's also difficult to find
    the RSS feed address to put into a third party podcatcher such as
    Podcast Addict.

    To complicate matters, programmes like Radio 4's "More of Less" are split
    into chunks of 7 or 8 minutes on the Sounds app, while the full programme
    is a bit hidden. I seem to recall subscribing to chunks does not also
    subscribe you to the full programme.

    It's not really as straighforward as I would like especially as the web
    site has not one but two pages for such a programme and it offers various different clips to the Sounds app.

    I asked about the two web pages for programmes a couple of weeks ago in uk.tech.digital-tv. ...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qshd

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p02nrss1

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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to Pamela on Thu Feb 10 07:52:55 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    I had the opposite issue, I wanted meet the leader on bbc radio London.
    Found the file OK it said it ran for 35mins or some such, but after I got it
    it was the whole morning show, several hours in length and I had to shove it into a sound editor and find the bit I needed,cutting the rest out.
    Bah humbug.
    Brian

    --

    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Pamela" <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote in message news:XnsAE39C9F11F60337B93@144.76.35.252...
    On 11:55 9 Feb 2022, Max Demian said:

    On 09/02/2022 07:45, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

    It used to be so simple. You put up your file then did an rss link
    to it and sent it to google, or had feedburner look at the rss and
    keep a master list. Then Goggle withdrew the service and the whole
    thing became a mess. Apple tend to do a directory, but they prefer
    it in their format, not rss and that enables them to use DRM.

    Now the big players all tend to have a chargeable podcast tier and
    even attach adverts to the free stuff to make money. Now I know that
    everyone has to fund a bit of web space, bandwidth etc, but it is
    beginning to look like the one man band podcast days are numbered
    now. I tend these days to say, if its not got an rss feed then get
    stuffed.

    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The
    search box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the
    BBC Sounds app even if all you want is information about the
    programme, and they don't properly distinguish between programmes
    which are podcasts and those that aren't. It's also difficult to find
    the RSS feed address to put into a third party podcatcher such as
    Podcast Addict.

    To complicate matters, programmes like Radio 4's "More of Less" are split into chunks of 7 or 8 minutes on the Sounds app, while the full programme
    is a bit hidden. I seem to recall subscribing to chunks does not also subscribe you to the full programme.

    It's not really as straighforward as I would like especially as the web
    site has not one but two pages for such a programme and it offers various different clips to the Sounds app.

    I asked about the two web pages for programmes a couple of weeks ago in uk.tech.digital-tv. ...

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b006qshd

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/brand/p02nrss1

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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 10 07:48:30 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    Yes that is very true. Indeed the one on In Touch is the only one I seem to
    be able to find relatively easily, and many so called podcasts are not,
    they are simply either files to download or play in an on line
    player.Stitcher are a pain as are Spotify.
    The rather oddly named ami podcasts, Accessible media inc, is anything but accessible as you cannot actually find the feed quite often. There is a
    podcast on there called Shawn of the shed that is for blind people starting
    out on line, and yet actually finding the files in any form you can download them seems to need a PhD in computer science.
    Brian

    --

    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:qNidnYfGI4smNp7_nZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
    On 09/02/2022 07:45, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:

    It used to be so simple. You put up your file then did an rss link to it
    and
    sent it to google, or had feedburner look at the rss and keep a master
    list.
    Then Goggle withdrew the service and the whole thing became a mess. Apple
    tend to do a directory, but they prefer it in their format, not rss and
    that
    enables them to use DRM.
    Now the big players all tend to have a chargeable podcast tier and even
    attach adverts to the free stuff to make money. Now I know that everyone
    has
    to fund a bit of web space, bandwidth etc, but it is beginning to look
    like
    the one man band podcast days are numbered now. I tend these days to
    say,
    if its not got an rss feed then get stuffed.

    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The search
    box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the BBC Sounds
    app even if all you want is information about the programme, and they
    don't properly distinguish between programmes which are podcasts and those that aren't. It's also difficult to find the RSS feed address to put into
    a third party podcatcher such as Podcast Addict.

    --
    Max Demian

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 10 09:12:04 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 07:52 10 Feb 2022, Brian Gaff (Sofa) said:

    I had the opposite issue, I wanted meet the leader on bbc radio
    London. Found the file OK it said it ran for 35mins or some such, but
    after I got it it was the whole morning show, several hours in length
    and I had to shove it into a sound editor and find the bit I
    needed,cutting the rest out.

    Bah humbug.
    Brian

    I don't have the option of downloading the programme audio file because I listen to the BBC almost exclusively on the Sounds app. This brings up
    another difficulty which is its poor navigation through a programme.

    For example the time markings on the slider are in very small type, when
    the slider is used it doesn't display the time of where you are, the
    buttons provided offer only 20 second skips, and more. It would be
    relatively straightforward to design a less constrained interface. Similar screen controls are found in several other music/podcast players which
    seems to show a lack of imagination.

    However I mustn't look a gift horse in the mouth because streaming BBC programmes is really useful and I'm grateful for it.

    By the way, how do the BBC's servers handle all the demands made by
    thousands (if not millions) of listeners starting at different points in
    their chosen programme and skipping about. There must be a lot of traffic
    to service all the requests. I'm sure caches somewhere along the route
    help out but it still seems quite a lot of traffic and the BBC handles it almost faultlessly.

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to briang1@blueyonder.co.uk on Wed Feb 9 10:17:38 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    FWIW personally I'd be more attacted to making any such content available
    via a suitable AV file people can download and then access. That's easy
    enough to set up if you have some space online - or can set up something on your home system so the file(s) are public without compromising the rest of your home system/data.

    But then I don't want people like YT, google, etc, making money off the
    back of my work. Or using it to get the personal data of others.

    Sadly, a few big companies have largely monopolised and monitised this sort
    of area, in the process being willing to promote crap and disinformation
    for their own profit.

    That said, I doubt anyone sane would want to watch/hear me in a 'podcast'.
    So I cannae be bothered. :-)

    Jim


    In article <stvret$mmn$1@dont-email.me>, Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
    It used to be so simple. You put up your file then did an rss link to it
    and sent it to google, or had feedburner look at the rss and keep a
    master list. Then Goggle withdrew the service and the whole thing became
    a mess. Apple tend to do a directory, but they prefer it in their
    format, not rss and that enables them to use DRM. Now the big players
    all tend to have a chargeable podcast tier and even attach adverts to
    the free stuff to make money. Now I know that everyone has to fund a bit
    of web space, bandwidth etc, but it is beginning to look like the one
    man band podcast days are numbered now. I tend these days to say, if
    its not got an rss feed then get stuffed. Brian

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Thu Feb 10 10:41:16 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <XnsAE39C9F11F60337B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
    To complicate matters, programmes like Radio 4's "More of Less" are
    split into chunks of 7 or 8 minutes on the Sounds app, while the full programme is a bit hidden. I seem to recall subscribing to chunks does
    not also subscribe you to the full programme.

    The short WS/podcast examples might sometimes contain info not in the R4 'broadcasts' because they were on the WS while the programme wasn't on R4.
    But it is a tad confusing given how many examples there are! Excellent
    info, though.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Thu Feb 10 10:38:58 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <XnsAE3A5D99E30AF37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

    I don't have the option of downloading the programme audio file because
    I listen to the BBC almost exclusively on the Sounds app. This brings
    up another difficulty which is its poor navigation through a programme.

    What type of 'device'/computer are you using?

    I find that get-iplayer works nicely and gives me 320k aac files which may sound better than lower formats. get-iplayer runs on various OSs. Works for
    BBC 'podcast' files as well as sheduled ones.

    For example the time markings on the slider are in very small type, when
    the slider is used it doesn't display the time of where you are, the
    buttons provided offer only 20 second skips, and more. It would be
    relatively straightforward to design a less constrained interface.
    Similar screen controls are found in several other music/podcast
    players which seems to show a lack of imagination.

    I just use VLC (or Audacity on Linux for audio). Again, the question is wrt your choice of device/computer, but VLC runs on various OSs.


    However I mustn't look a gift horse in the mouth because streaming BBC programmes is really useful and I'm grateful for it.

    By the way, how do the BBC's servers handle all the demands made by
    thousands (if not millions) of listeners starting at different points in their chosen programme and skipping about. There must be a lot of
    traffic to service all the requests. I'm sure caches somewhere along
    the route help out but it still seems quite a lot of traffic and the
    BBC handles it almost faultlessly.

    They use some 'content delivery network' (CDN) services that keep copies of their files in various machines around the country. This means you can have many servers providing the material. If you wish, get-iplayer will let you decide which delivery supplier to use (or ignore) if they vary. And the
    BBC's own servers can then palm off a lot of the loading to the other CDNs. Means the system can be scaled up or down by the BBC without the BBC having
    to buy more hardware or bin it, or change their own staff involved.

    FWIW This may give the general idea http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/AudioFactory/AudioFactory.html
    but it is now out of date in some ways. Maybe time I did a new version,
    however it gives the general idea. Note that 'Flash' is now an unloved
    memory we don't regret having cease! It was a PITA.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From MB@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 10 12:45:41 2022
    I have asked before, there are a number of Internet streaming services
    carrying BBC radio comedy programmes (and Just a Minute). There are no
    adverts so I wonder how they are funded and how they get around BBC
    copyright?

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to Max Demian on Thu Feb 10 12:57:33 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    Max Demian wrote:

    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The search box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the BBC Sounds app

    Because the BBC are obsessed with gathering audience statistics, to the point they remove their podcasts from other platforms (likely shrinking the potential audience).

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  • From Max Demian@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Thu Feb 10 16:49:26 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 10/02/2022 12:57, Andy Burns wrote:
    Max Demian wrote:

    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The
    search box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the
    BBC Sounds app

    Because the BBC are obsessed with gathering audience statistics, to the
    point they remove their podcasts from other platforms (likely shrinking
    the potential audience).

    If I subscribe to the podcast on another app it would still show up as a stream/download as it comes from the BBC server. I just need to know
    what the address is.

    --
    Max Demian

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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 11 09:59:11 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    Well, the alexa skill radio player obviously knows what it is, since alexa
    ask radio player to play radio Solent starts it without bbc sounds jingle,
    but it does have the drawback that some content does not go onto it for
    rights reasons, mostly foot ball.


    Brian

    --

    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:4oqdna3zOoGL35j_nZ2dnUU7-d2dnZ2d@brightview.co.uk...
    On 10/02/2022 12:57, Andy Burns wrote:
    Max Demian wrote:

    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The search
    box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the BBC
    Sounds app

    Because the BBC are obsessed with gathering audience statistics, to the
    point they remove their podcasts from other platforms (likely shrinking
    the potential audience).

    If I subscribe to the podcast on another app it would still show up as a stream/download as it comes from the BBC server. I just need to know what
    the address is.

    --
    Max Demian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to max_demian@bigfoot.com on Fri Feb 11 10:33:30 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <qNidnYfGI4smNp7_nZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Max
    Demian
    <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:


    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The search
    box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the BBC
    Sounds app even if all you want is information about the programme, and
    they don't properly distinguish between programmes which are podcasts
    and those that aren't.

    I need to listen again in case I misheard. However this morning I was
    listening to the version of a recent "Inside Science" that I'd fetched with get-iplayer. Used the pid from the relevant day's radio schedule page. This often gets an extended version, presumably as podcast. This time the
    programme seemed to start with statement that in future Inside Science
    would appear via 'Sounds' *28 days before being broadcast*.

    i.e. if you use ye olde radio or - by implication - listen to the version
    from the broadcast shedules on the web - you get what was available 28 days earlier via Zounds! i.e. an enforced delay.

    Need to check this, I was making breakfast at the time so may have
    misheard. But it seems really weird given that the point of the programme
    is to keep listeners up to date with recent developments in science. Bit
    like deciding to delay the News broadcasts on TV for a month to push people
    to use the net!

    Irony is that I tend to run a week or two late in listening to these things anyway! But if correct it still seems a weird decision driven by an
    obsession with pushing Zounds!

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Jim Lesurf on Fri Feb 11 13:18:22 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 10:38 10 Feb 2022, Jim Lesurf said:

    In article <XnsAE3A5D99E30AF37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

    I don't have the option of downloading the programme audio file
    because I listen to the BBC almost exclusively on the Sounds app.
    This brings up another difficulty which is its poor navigation
    through a programme.

    What type of 'device'/computer are you using?

    I find that get-iplayer works nicely and gives me 320k aac files
    which may sound better than lower formats. get-iplayer runs on
    various OSs. Works for BBC 'podcast' files as well as sheduled ones.

    For example the time markings on the slider are in very small type,
    when the slider is used it doesn't display the time of where you
    are, the buttons provided offer only 20 second skips, and more. It
    would be relatively straightforward to design a less constrained
    interface. Similar screen controls are found in several other
    music/podcast players which seems to show a lack of imagination.

    I just use VLC (or Audacity on Linux for audio). Again, the question
    is wrt your choice of device/computer, but VLC runs on various OSs.


    However I mustn't look a gift horse in the mouth because streaming
    BBC programmes is really useful and I'm grateful for it.

    By the way, how do the BBC's servers handle all the demands made by
    thousands (if not millions) of listeners starting at different
    points in their chosen programme and skipping about. There must be a
    lot of traffic to service all the requests. I'm sure caches
    somewhere along the route help out but it still seems quite a lot of
    traffic and the BBC handles it almost faultlessly.

    They use some 'content delivery network' (CDN) services that keep
    copies of their files in various machines around the country. This
    means you can have many servers providing the material. If you wish, get-iplayer will let you decide which delivery supplier to use (or
    ignore) if they vary. And the BBC's own servers can then palm off a
    lot of the loading to the other CDNs. Means the system can be scaled
    up or down by the BBC without the BBC having to buy more hardware or
    bin it, or change their own staff involved.

    FWIW This may give the general idea http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/BBC/AudioFactory/AudioFactory.html
    but it is now out of date in some ways. Maybe time I did a new
    version, however it gives the general idea. Note that 'Flash' is now
    an unloved memory we don't regret having cease! It was a PITA.

    Jim

    Downloading audio or multimedia files with Get-iplayer is a bit too fiddly
    for me and the controls for skipping through such a file in VLC (skip
    forward or back and goto) aren't that much better compared to the BBC
    Sounds App.

    I've opted to play BBC Sounds on my Android smartphone carried around the house. I can call up old BBC radio programmes on Sounds or I can "live
    rewind" a live broadcast. Unfortunately I can't feed Android Sounds
    output wirelessly into the wi-fi speakers, so they get used for playing
    live radio in the background.

    It's crazy because most rooms I'm in during the day have a Sonos speaker
    and also an Amazon Echo speaker and some have the two together, yet I use
    the squawky transducer in my Android phone because it provides programme
    skip backs and easy selection.

    Thanks for the Audio Factory link. I hadn't realised you were HiFi News aristocracy! The AF seems for input feeds although it involves some rationalisation of output stream types. You also mentioned a "content
    delivery network" service which is probably what I am asking about.
    Playing BBC radio through Sounds has remarkably little latency and the
    listener can then skip about the programme with little buffering delay.
    It's works rather well.

    So I'm impressed a CDN can handle so much traffic and in near real-time.
    If 100 listeners all started the same audio programme and then each
    skipped to a different part of it, there could be 100 times the traffic
    unless there is some clever caching going on in the network and, depending
    of the exact situation, even that may not reduce total traffic much. There
    must be some interesting network balancing going on.

    Netflix takes approx 35% of all internet capacity at peak viewing times. Although data rates for audio are less than a tenth for those of video,
    audio traffic must still add up and each skip back is more or less a new stream. I guess music providers such as Spotify have exactly the same considerations to make.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Fri Feb 11 13:35:45 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 13:18:22, Pamela
    <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually follow
    points raised):
    []
    Downloading audio or multimedia files with Get-iplayer is a bit too fiddly

    Me too; I find youtube-dl (and now yt-dlp) much easier. [Unfortunate
    name: people assume they're only for YouTube. I've very rarely found a
    webpage with a video on it that it won't fetch, regardless of site.]

    for me and the controls for skipping through such a file in VLC (skip
    forward or back and goto) aren't that much better compared to the BBC
    Sounds App.

    Hmm, I find them OK - left, right, and shift-left and shift-right for
    smaller jumps. (And IIRR you can set how long those jumps are, but I'
    not sure about that.) Out of curiosity, what more do you want of a
    player (than back, forward, and goto)?
    []
    So I'm impressed a CDN can handle so much traffic and in near real-time.
    If 100 listeners all started the same audio programme and then each
    skipped to a different part of it, there could be 100 times the traffic >unless there is some clever caching going on in the network and, depending
    of the exact situation, even that may not reduce total traffic much. There >must be some interesting network balancing going on.

    Indeed!

    Netflix takes approx 35% of all internet capacity at peak viewing times.

    That's quite a startling statistic! You'd think _they_ would benefit
    from some regional cacheing, if that's the case.
    []
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    A biochemist walks into a student bar and says to the barman: "I'd like a pint of adenosine triphosphate, please." "Certainly," says the barman, "that'll be ATP." (Quoted in) The Independent, 2013-7-13

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  • From Robin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 11 13:49:09 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 11/02/2022 13:35, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    <snip>

    Netflix takes approx 35% of all internet capacity at peak viewing times.

    That's quite a startling statistic! You'd think _they_ would benefit
    from some regional cacheing, if that's the case.


    Netflix embed hardware in ISPs.

    https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/




    --
    Robin
    reply-to address is (intended to be) valid

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to Robin on Fri Feb 11 14:14:06 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 13:49:09, Robin <rbw@outlook.com> wrote (my
    responses usually follow points raised):
    On 11/02/2022 13:35, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
    <snip>

    Netflix takes approx 35% of all internet capacity at peak viewing times.
    That's quite a startling statistic! You'd think _they_ would benefit
    from some regional cacheing, if that's the case.


    Netflix embed hardware in ISPs.

    https://openconnect.netflix.com/en/

    Thanks; interesting. Of course, it requires ISPs themselves to also be "localizing"; some years ago I expressed the opinion that doing such for popular content would substantially reduce traffic, but at that time the general consensus was that it wasn't worth it. Though now the rise of
    content of the Netflix type where lots of people nation-wide will be
    accessing substantially the same content, which perhaps wasn't the case
    when I first thought about it) has presumably changed matters.



    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    People worry that computers will get too smart and take over the world, but
    the real problem is that they're too stupid and they've already taken over the world (Pedro Domingos, quoted by Wolf K in alt.windows7.general 2018-12-10)

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  • From Java Jive@21:1/5 to Jim Lesurf on Fri Feb 11 20:33:28 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 11/02/2022 10:33, Jim Lesurf wrote:

    In article <qNidnYfGI4smNp7_nZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Max
    Demian
    <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    I need to listen again in case I misheard. However this morning I was listening to the version of a recent "Inside Science" that I'd fetched with get-iplayer. Used the pid from the relevant day's radio schedule page. This often gets an extended version, presumably as podcast. This time the programme seemed to start with statement that in future Inside Science
    would appear via 'Sounds' *28 days before being broadcast*.

    Yes, you heard correctly, crazy if you ask me, as you say, it'll be like listening to the news from a month ago.

    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website:
    www.macfh.co.uk

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Pamela on Fri Feb 11 22:57:31 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 22:50 11 Feb 2022, Pamela said:

    On 13:35 11 Feb 2022, J. P. Gilliver (John) said:

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 13:18:22, Pamela
    <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually
    follow points raised): []
    Downloading audio or multimedia files with Get-iplayer is a bit too >>>fiddly

    Me too; I find youtube-dl (and now yt-dlp) much easier. [Unfortunate
    name: people assume they're only for YouTube. I've very rarely found
    a webpage with a video on it that it won't fetch, regardless of
    site.]

    for me and the controls for skipping through such a file in VLC
    (skip forward or back and goto) aren't that much better compared to
    the BBC Sounds App.

    Hmm, I find them OK - left, right, and shift-left and shift-right
    for smaller jumps. (And IIRR you can set how long those jumps are,
    but I' not sure about that.) Out of curiosity, what more do you want
    of a player (than back, forward, and goto)?

    On my PC multimedia player (Gom) I can skip fowards in three
    user-defined steps such as 15 secs, 2 minutes, 10 minutes with a
    single key depression, which is very useful. Backwards too. Very
    useful for short and long videos.

    I just discovered BBC Sounds has recently been migrated onto the Sonos
    app, which seems great until you realise it has no ability to skip at all.
    It hs only a position slider and with poor "handle-ability". Imagine
    using that to navigate from one 5 minute topic to the next on Radio 4's
    Today programme which is 3 hours long.

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to All on Fri Feb 11 22:50:08 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 13:35 11 Feb 2022, J. P. Gilliver (John) said:

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 13:18:22, Pamela
    <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually follow
    points raised):
    []
    Downloading audio or multimedia files with Get-iplayer is a bit too
    fiddly

    Me too; I find youtube-dl (and now yt-dlp) much easier. [Unfortunate
    name: people assume they're only for YouTube. I've very rarely found
    a webpage with a video on it that it won't fetch, regardless of
    site.]

    for me and the controls for skipping through such a file in VLC (skip >>forward or back and goto) aren't that much better compared to the BBC >>Sounds App.

    Hmm, I find them OK - left, right, and shift-left and shift-right for
    smaller jumps. (And IIRR you can set how long those jumps are, but I'
    not sure about that.) Out of curiosity, what more do you want of a
    player (than back, forward, and goto)?

    On my PC multimedia player (Gom) I can skip fowards in three user-defined
    steps such as 15 secs, 2 minutes, 10 minutes with a single key depression, which is very useful. Backwards too. Very useful for short and long
    videos.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Fri Feb 11 23:14:30 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 22:50:08, Pamela
    <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually follow
    points raised):
    On 13:35 11 Feb 2022, J. P. Gilliver (John) said:

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 13:18:22, Pamela
    <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually follow
    points raised):
    []
    for me and the controls for skipping through such a file in VLC (skip >>>forward or back and goto) aren't that much better compared to the BBC >>>Sounds App.

    Hmm, I find them OK - left, right, and shift-left and shift-right for
    smaller jumps. (And IIRR you can set how long those jumps are, but I'
    not sure about that.) Out of curiosity, what more do you want of a
    player (than back, forward, and goto)?

    On my PC multimedia player (Gom) I can skip fowards in three user-defined >steps such as 15 secs, 2 minutes, 10 minutes with a single key depression, >which is very useful. Backwards too. Very useful for short and long
    videos.

    For VLC (I have 3.0.11):
    Very short backwards/forwards jump: Shift+Left/Right
    Short: Alt+Left/Right
    Medium: Ctrl+Left/Right
    Long: Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right

    as well as Left/Right on their own (which repeat if you hold them down).

    The distances jumped are settable - mine are set to (I think the
    defaults):
    Very short 3
    Short 10
    Medium 60
    Long 300 (seconds I presume)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    How could you be expected to know that picnics were originally held indoors,
    or that a slow loris has poisonous elbows?
    - Sandi Toksvig on QI, in RT 2018/9/15-21

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 10:44:03 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 23:14 11 Feb 2022, J. P. Gilliver (John) said:

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 22:50:08, Pamela
    <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually follow
    points raised):
    On 13:35 11 Feb 2022, J. P. Gilliver (John) said:

    On Fri, 11 Feb 2022 at 13:18:22, Pamela
    <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually
    follow points raised):
    []
    for me and the controls for skipping through such a file in VLC
    (skip forward or back and goto) aren't that much better compared to
    the BBC Sounds App.

    Hmm, I find them OK - left, right, and shift-left and shift-right
    for smaller jumps. (And IIRR you can set how long those jumps are,
    but I' not sure about that.) Out of curiosity, what more do you
    want of a player (than back, forward, and goto)?

    On my PC multimedia player (Gom) I can skip fowards in three
    user-defined steps such as 15 secs, 2 minutes, 10 minutes with a
    single key depression, which is very useful. Backwards too. Very
    useful for short and long videos.

    For VLC (I have 3.0.11):
    Very short backwards/forwards jump: Shift+Left/Right
    Short: Alt+Left/Right
    Medium: Ctrl+Left/Right
    Long: Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right

    as well as Left/Right on their own (which repeat if you hold them
    down).

    The distances jumped are settable - mine are set to (I think the
    defaults):
    Very short 3
    Short 10
    Medium 60
    Long 300 (seconds I presume)

    I have VLC version 3.0.16 and was referring to the three entries in the "Playback" menu. I tried what you posted and the skips work. Thank you
    very much for taking the trouble.

    I can see I should use VLC more. I have had VLC for over a decade but
    use it mainly to play "awkward" videos my ther video players can't
    handle. I Its interface is less friendly than all my other players and,
    for that reason, I tend not to use it.

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Sat Feb 12 11:11:23 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <XnsAE3C6D32254E737B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

    I can see I should use VLC more. I have had VLC for over a decade but
    use it mainly to play "awkward" videos my ther video players can't
    handle. I Its interface is less friendly than all my other players and,
    for that reason, I tend not to use it.

    It is worth spending some time investigating the setup and interface of VLC
    if you play a lot of videos.

    If you find some files 'awkward' then investigate the usefulness of ffmpeg
    and ffplay. Harder to use than VLC but very powerful and flexible.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Sat Feb 12 12:05:48 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 10:44:03, Pamela
    <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote (my responses usually follow
    points raised):
    []
    for me and the controls for skipping through such a file in VLC
    (skip forward or back and goto) aren't that much better compared to >>>>>the BBC Sounds App.
    []
    For VLC (I have 3.0.11):
    Very short backwards/forwards jump: Shift+Left/Right
    Short: Alt+Left/Right
    Medium: Ctrl+Left/Right
    Long: Ctrl+Alt+Left/Right

    as well as Left/Right on their own (which repeat if you hold them
    down).

    The distances jumped are settable - mine are set to (I think the
    defaults):
    Very short 3
    Short 10
    Medium 60
    Long 300 (seconds I presume)

    I have VLC version 3.0.16 and was referring to the three entries in the

    (I turned off updating as the version or two after '11, on W7-32 anyway,
    was broken in that the metadata editing function [e. g. accessed via
    Ctrl-I] stopped working [it seemed to work but any change didn't get
    stored]. I haven't tried a recent version to see if they've fixed that:
    if anyone knows it has, please share.)

    "Playback" menu. I tried what you posted and the skips work. Thank you
    very much for taking the trouble.

    you're welcome. I don't think I found them for a while - well, I think I
    found left and right (I tend to use the keyboard more than a lot of
    people do), but it didn't occur to me to try them with modifiers until,
    I think, I happened to see them in one of the configuration pages. (The
    option to _change_ the jump size is under the "Advanced" button.)

    I can see I should use VLC more. I have had VLC for over a decade but
    use it mainly to play "awkward" videos my ther video players can't
    handle. I Its interface is less friendly than all my other players and,
    for that reason, I tend not to use it.

    I suspect the interface of any player comes with familiarity; I find
    that of most of the others I have less intuitive, simply because )I
    suspect) I use VLC as my default, rather than it being easier or the
    others harder. My usual one for files VLC won't play is IrfanView (which started out as mainly for - and I still use it mainly for - dealing with
    still images, but can now do many audio and video formats, though with
    fewer controls [unless I just haven't found them!] than VLC).
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "... all your hard work in the hands of twelve people too stupid to get off jury
    duty." CSI, 200x

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Sat Feb 12 11:05:04 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <XnsAE3B875BC6CF037B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

    Downloading audio or multimedia files with Get-iplayer is a bit too
    fiddly for me

    I wrote a simple ROX app that lets me simply type in the pid or drop a text file listing pids. It then chuggs though getting the items. Easy. Usually
    let it run though a list of 'items from yesterday' as I make breakfast. One advantage is that because this is before 9am the data isn't added to my
    monthly total. So I can get far more than my 'capped amount'. Also tends to come faster.


    and the controls for skipping through such a file in VLC
    (skip forward or back and goto) aren't that much better compared to the
    BBC Sounds App.

    They seem fine to me.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Sat Feb 12 11:07:32 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <XnsAE3BE84BCE05C37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

    On my PC multimedia player (Gom) I can skip fowards in three
    user-defined steps such as 15 secs, 2 minutes, 10 minutes with a single
    key depression, which is very useful. Backwards too. Very useful for
    short and long videos.

    Perhaps worth pointing out that VLC lets the user reconfigure the effects
    of keypresses, etc.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Sat Feb 12 11:19:13 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <XnsAE3B875BC6CF037B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:
    Thanks for the Audio Factory link. I hadn't realised you were HiFi News aristocracy! The AF seems for input feeds although it involves some rationalisation of output stream types. You also mentioned a "content delivery network" service which is probably what I am asking about.
    Playing BBC radio through Sounds has remarkably little latency and the listener can then skip about the programme with little buffering delay.
    It's works rather well.

    That's a result of providers of AV streams using some form of 'CDN'.

    In effect they put copies of the files people are asking form onto many machines disributed around the net. Then when you ask for something they arrange it gets sent to you from the 'most convenient' machine in you
    specific case at the time.

    So I'm impressed a CDN can handle so much traffic and in near real-time.
    If 100 listeners all started the same audio programme and then each
    skipped to a different part of it, there could be 100 times the traffic unless there is some clever caching going on in the network and,
    depending of the exact situation, even that may not reduce total
    traffic much. There must be some interesting network balancing going on.

    Yes. :-) FWIW The BBC have run their own small CDN and also employed two different commercial ones that are bigger. If you use get-iplayer it can be told to fetch from a specific CDN or exclude one. That has occasionally
    been useful in the past when providers or the net have had problems.

    The result tends to be like the old comment about swans. On the surface
    they seem to glide across the pond effortlessly. But under the water they
    are paddling furiously to get though the weeds! :-)

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Sat Feb 12 11:23:16 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <dpW3dTjxYmBiFwbk@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    Me too; I find youtube-dl (and now yt-dlp) much easier. [Unfortunate
    name: people assume they're only for YouTube. I've very rarely found a webpage with a video on it that it won't fetch, regardless of site.]

    I'd be interested in more info about that. Couple of examples?

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 12:17:35 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 11:11:23, Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
    wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
    []
    It is worth spending some time investigating the setup and interface of VLC >if you play a lot of videos.

    (Yes, I've changed the button bar in mine. I would agree with Pamela or
    anyone else that _that_ aspect of VLC - _changing_ the control bar - is
    very far from intuitive, to the extent that I'd say it was buggy.)

    If you find some files 'awkward' then investigate the usefulness of ffmpeg >and ffplay. Harder to use than VLC but very powerful and flexible.

    Jim

    (Paul, in the Windows groups, is an expert on ffmpeg [and much else].)
    If you search your system for files with ffmpeg in their name, its
    amazing how many utilities are actually GUI wrappers for ffmpeg! (I. e.,
    they generate the switches it needs.) On my system, at least the
    following are ffmpeg-based or contain it: K-Lite Codec Pack; Best_Video_Converter; Any Video Converter plugins; KMPlayer; Bigasoft
    Video Downloader; Pazera Audio Extractor; get_iplayer; downloadhelper; ClipGrab; Deshaker; and Skype.

    (I hadn't come across ffplay, but on checking, I find at least three of
    the above - Bigasoft, Pazera, and downloadhelper - use it. Is it to do
    with flash?)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    "... all your hard work in the hands of twelve people too stupid to get off jury
    duty." CSI, 200x

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 14:01:45 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 11:23:16, Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
    wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
    In article <dpW3dTjxYmBiFwbk@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    Me too; I find youtube-dl (and now yt-dlp) much easier. [Unfortunate
    name: people assume they're only for YouTube. I've very rarely found a
    webpage with a video on it that it won't fetch, regardless of site.]

    I'd be interested in more info about that. Couple of examples?

    Jim

    The old youtube-dl - which apparently does work on Unix/Linux - is at http://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/; yt-dlp is at https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp (scroll down a bit to get to the
    "friendly" bit; like all github pages, the top of the page is straight
    into technical bits).

    If you mean examples of where it/they work on other than youTube URLs -
    I've found most BBC programme pages, and also IIRR ones with "vimeo" in
    the URL. If you like ffmpeg, you'll like these two; I usually just run
    them by typing "yt-dlp URL", but if you type (IIRR) "yt-dlp --help"
    you'll find it has oodles of possible parameters.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    The thing about smut is it harms no one and it's rarely cruel. Besides, it's a gleeful rejection of the dreary and the "correct".
    - Alison Graham, RT 2014/10/25-31

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Sat Feb 12 13:21:43 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <XT9VjN7fV6BiFw4z@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 11:11:23, Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk>

    If you find some files 'awkward' then investigate the usefulness of
    ffmpeg and ffplay. Harder to use than VLC but very powerful and
    flexible.

    Jim

    (Paul, in the Windows groups, is an expert on ffmpeg [and much else].)
    If you search your system for files with ffmpeg in their name, its
    amazing how many utilities are actually GUI wrappers for ffmpeg!

    Yes. :-) I used Linux and RISC OS, not 'doze, but it is similar there in
    that ffmpeg tends to lurk in various corners of other parts of the software
    or 'OS'.

    (re ffplay)

    (I hadn't come across ffplay, but on checking, I find at least three of
    the above - Bigasoft, Pazera, and downloadhelper - use it. Is it to do
    with flash?)

    No. (shudder!) It is a simple 'play the file' utility that is a part of the ffmpeg 'family' of programs. It can be used to see if you can play a file
    which may not work with some other programs, or to check it in some way.

    Similarly there is ffprobe which will list the details of a file. e.g. I
    use it to read chapter mark locations in a file before using a simple
    ffmpeg based program to snip it. Or more often to generate a series of
    'start here' files I can then simply click on the start VLC playing from
    that place. Again, I wrote a ROX app to help make this simpler. I like ROX
    on Linux as it gives me a good user interface in terms of filer actions.

    FWIW I tend to get the 'current' ffmpeg family and put them in user space
    as a better alternative to the versions (sometimes renamed) that come with
    a Linux distro.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Sat Feb 12 13:48:36 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 13:21:43, Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
    wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
    In article <XT9VjN7fV6BiFw4z@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 11:11:23, Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
    []
    (I hadn't come across ffplay, but on checking, I find at least three of
    the above - Bigasoft, Pazera, and downloadhelper - use it. Is it to do
    with flash?)

    No. (shudder!) It is a simple 'play the file' utility that is a part of the

    (I didn't think it was, but when I searched for ffplay, I found I had
    something from 2009 called SwiffPlayerSetup15.exe, which I vaguely think
    I remember was a Flash player. Might not be.)

    ffmpeg 'family' of programs. It can be used to see if you can play a file >which may not work with some other programs, or to check it in some way.

    Similarly there is ffprobe which will list the details of a file. e.g. I

    At first I thought you meant like gspot (which I recently searched for,
    but explained with amusement to the lady I was helping that a lot of the
    hits were unrelated - only to discover she didn't know about that sort
    of G-spot!). But ...

    use it to read chapter mark locations in a file before using a simple

    .. suggests it isn't. (gspot, if you don't know, is a utility that tells
    you things like what CoDecs were used to make a file, and probably lots
    of other such things.)

    ffmpeg based program to snip it. Or more often to generate a series of
    'start here' files I can then simply click on the start VLC playing from
    that place. Again, I wrote a ROX app to help make this simpler. I like ROX
    on Linux as it gives me a good user interface in terms of filer actions.

    (On checking, I find I have ffprobe too - not quite so many, but it's
    there as part of Pazera and downloadhelper.)

    FWIW I tend to get the 'current' ffmpeg family and put them in user space
    as a better alternative to the versions (sometimes renamed) that come with
    a Linux distro.

    Jim

    I'd like to just have one common copy - it'd be tidier - but (a) I don't
    know if the versions that came with the various utilities (wrappers for
    it) that I use are compatible with each other, and (b) I don't know if
    those utilities would _find_ it if I just put it in system32 or similar.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Veni Vidi Visa [I came, I saw, I did a little shopping] - Mik from S+AS Limited (mik@saslimited.demon.co.uk), 1998

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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to Java Jive on Sat Feb 12 14:43:54 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    Yes I heard this, maybe the term should have been up to, since not all of
    the stuff will be new.
    What about the world services Science in Action though, is that the same,
    they often seem more on the ball. How may others will be done, In Touch is already seeming to be about a month behind the podcasts from the likes of
    RNIB connect, and in my view anything purporting to have any kind of up to
    date news should be up to date, not put together in a couple of months.
    Brian

    --

    This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...
    The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
    briang1@blueyonder.co.uk
    Blind user, so no pictures please
    Note this Signature is meaningless.!
    "Java Jive" <java@evij.com.invalid> wrote in message news:su6h6r$oa6$1@dont-email.me...
    On 11/02/2022 10:33, Jim Lesurf wrote:

    In article <qNidnYfGI4smNp7_nZ2dnUU7-d3NnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>, Max
    Demian
    <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote:

    I need to listen again in case I misheard. However this morning I was
    listening to the version of a recent "Inside Science" that I'd fetched
    with
    get-iplayer. Used the pid from the relevant day's radio schedule page.
    This
    often gets an extended version, presumably as podcast. This time the
    programme seemed to start with statement that in future Inside Science
    would appear via 'Sounds' *28 days before being broadcast*.

    Yes, you heard correctly, crazy if you ask me, as you say, it'll be like listening to the news from a month ago.

    --

    Fake news kills!

    I may be contacted via the contact address given on my website: www.macfh.co.uk

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  • From Mike@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Sat Feb 12 14:50:51 2022
    In article <e8on4gBJ37BiFwrs@a.a>,
    J. P. Gilliver (John) <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    If you mean examples of where it/they work on other than youTube URLs -
    I've found most BBC programme pages, and also IIRR ones with "vimeo" in
    the URL.

    Examples? It's a huge list. :)

    There are specific "extractors" in youtube-dl (and yt-dlp) designed
    to work on specific websites. There are a LOT of them. But, sometimes
    if you point at at www.j-random-website.com that is hosting its
    own videos via no recognisable other-server (e.g. embedded YouTube) then
    it will say "Falling back on generic extractor", which appears to
    be just a rather smart web-scraper that just looks for anything
    that looks like video and scarf it down.

    youtube-dl --list-extractors

    Shows the list of sites it supports, and

    youtube-dl --list-extractors | wc -l

    1249

    That's how many extractors it confesses to, with a few "duplicates"
    maybe.

    It's likely if video CAN be downloaded, then it will.
    --
    --------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Sat Feb 12 18:12:10 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <e8on4gBJ37BiFwrs@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    The old youtube-dl - which apparently does work on Unix/Linux - is at http://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/; yt-dlp is at https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp (scroll down a bit to get to the
    "friendly" bit; like all github pages, the top of the page is straight
    into technical bits).

    Yes, I've used the 'original' for some time, and now the dlp version. I was asking about...

    If you mean examples of where it/they work on other than youTube URLs -
    I've found most BBC programme pages, and also IIRR ones with "vimeo" in
    the URL. If you like ffmpeg, you'll like these two; I usually just run
    them by typing "yt-dlp URL", but if you type (IIRR) "yt-dlp --help"
    you'll find it has oodles of possible parameters.

    IIRR?

    I was wondering about videos on various sites/locations more generally.
    e.g. I'm currently interested in ones about the James Webb Space Telescope,
    but try to avoid YT itself if I can.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Sat Feb 12 18:15:36 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <Ts3kMjA0q7BiFwLh@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    I'd like to just have one common copy - it'd be tidier - but (a) I don't
    know if the versions that came with the various utilities (wrappers for
    it) that I use are compatible with each other, and (b) I don't know if
    those utilities would _find_ it if I just put it in system32 or similar.

    Other programs may assume a specific version. So I tend to have a 'system' version which installed-from-the-disro-repos uses, plus my up to date
    versio that is sometimes more flexible in my user space which I then write simple ROX apps to automate using via a click or a drag-and-drop.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From Graham Harrison@21:1/5 to MB@nospam.net on Sun Feb 13 21:02:02 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Wed, 9 Feb 2022 12:20:10 +0000, MB <MB@nospam.net> wrote:

    On 09/02/2022 11:55, Max Demian wrote:
    It's quite difficult to find a BBC podcast on the BBC site. (The search
    box searches the whole BBC site.) They keep pushing you to the BBC
    Sounds app even if all you want is information about the programme, and
    they don't properly distinguish between programmes which are podcasts
    and those that aren't. It's also difficult to find the RSS feed address
    to put into a third party podcatcher such as Podcast Addict.

    That applies to find anything on the BBC website, the search system is
    too crude and difficult to target the search precisely.




    My father did quite a lot of work for the BBC from 1924 until 1983. I
    can look him up on https://genome.ch.bbc.co.uk/ (the digitised Radio
    Times) and if I simply search for his name I get 675 results including
    people with the same surname but different christian name. Put his
    name in quotes and it drops to 570 - just him as far as I can see. Do
    the same on the main BBC website and quotes make no difference, in
    fact, as far as I can see, he doesn't appear at all. It feels like the
    genome project uses a different search technique to the rest of the
    BBC.

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Sun Feb 13 23:15:42 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 18:12:10, Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
    wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
    In article <e8on4gBJ37BiFwrs@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    The old youtube-dl - which apparently does work on Unix/Linux - is at
    http://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/; yt-dlp is at
    https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp (scroll down a bit to get to the
    "friendly" bit; like all github pages, the top of the page is straight
    into technical bits).

    Yes, I've used the 'original' for some time, and now the dlp version. I was >asking about...

    If you mean examples of where it/they work on other than youTube URLs -
    I've found most BBC programme pages, and also IIRR ones with "vimeo" in
    the URL. If you like ffmpeg, you'll like these two; I usually just run
    them by typing "yt-dlp URL", but if you type (IIRR) "yt-dlp --help"
    you'll find it has oodles of possible parameters.

    IIRR?

    Sorry - "if I remember/recall rightly". Maybe not as common as I
    thought, though I think does predate texting.

    I was wondering about videos on various sites/locations more generally.
    e.g. I'm currently interested in ones about the James Webb Space Telescope, >but try to avoid YT itself if I can.

    Jim

    If you find any web page with a video (of the telescope or anything
    else) somewhere on it, just try throwing the URL of the webpage at
    yt-dlp; IME, there's a fair chance it will download the video.
    Especially if you help it along with a parameter or two, but usually
    even without.

    (In My Experience.)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    ... and how lovely, warm, funny, and just all-round Victoria Woodish she was.
    - Richard Osman on Victoria Wood, RT 2017/4/8-14

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  • From John Williamson@21:1/5 to All on Mon Feb 14 09:24:13 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 13/02/2022 23:15, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

    IIRR?

    Sorry - "if I remember/recall rightly". Maybe not as common as I
    thought, though I think does predate texting.

    Most use IIRC - If I Remember. Recall Correctly....

    Also IME, both of which have been in use since the days of dial up
    bulletin boards.

    HTH, HAND.... (1)


    --
    Tciao for Now!

    John.
    (1) Hope this helps/ Happy to help. Have a nice day.

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Thu Feb 17 10:25:09 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <e8on4gBJ37BiFwrs@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    If you mean examples of where it/they work on other than youTube URLs -
    I've found most BBC programme pages, and also IIRR ones with "vimeo" in
    the URL. If you like ffmpeg, you'll like these two; I usually just run
    them by typing "yt-dlp URL", but if you type (IIRR) "yt-dlp --help"
    you'll find it has oodles of possible parameters.

    Thanks for the info! :-) I had a go and, yes, yt-dlp let me fetch the
    video from here OK.

    https://renegadeinc.com/steve-keen-this-is-where-we-are-and-how-we-got-here/

    I've written a simple ROX app for Linux that lets me drag-and-drop a file containing the URL, and that gave me an mpeg of the video. As fetched, it lacked timestamps so didn't play perfectly with VLC becase you couldn't
    jump to an arbitrary time. But a pass though ffmpeg fixed that. :-)

    Result well worth watching. :-)

    I'll make more use of yt-dlp. :-))

    FWIW I switched to yt-dlp when yt started throttling.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 17 10:36:27 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    On 14:01 12 Feb 2022, J. P. Gilliver (John) said:

    On Sat, 12 Feb 2022 at 11:23:16, Jim Lesurf <noise@audiomisc.co.uk>
    wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
    In article <dpW3dTjxYmBiFwbk@a.a>, J. P. Gilliver (John)
    <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote:
    Me too; I find youtube-dl (and now yt-dlp) much easier.
    [Unfortunate name: people assume they're only for YouTube. I've
    very rarely found a webpage with a video on it that it won't fetch,
    regardless of site.]

    I'd be interested in more info about that. Couple of examples?

    Jim

    The old youtube-dl - which apparently does work on Unix/Linux - is at http://ytdl-org.github.io/youtube-dl/; yt-dlp is at https://github.com/yt-dlp/yt-dlp (scroll down a bit to get to the
    "friendly" bit; like all github pages, the top of the page is
    straight into technical bits).

    If you mean examples of where it/they work on other than youTube URLs
    - I've found most BBC programme pages, and also IIRR ones with
    "vimeo" in the URL. If you like ffmpeg, you'll like these two; I
    usually just run them by typing "yt-dlp URL", but if you type (IIRR)
    "yt-dlp --help" you'll find it has oodles of possible parameters.

    Google shows there are several fork versions.

    Are there any with a GUI?

    Do you know which is the best version for Windows?

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  • From Jim Lesurf@21:1/5 to pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com on Thu Feb 17 12:38:11 2022
    XPost: uk.tech.digital-tv

    In article <XnsAE416BE7CB9FD37B93@144.76.35.252>, Pamela <pamela.private.mailbox@gmail.com> wrote:

    Are there any with a GUI?

    Do you know which is the best version for Windows?

    Can't comment on 'doze. But I wrote a simple app for the ROX filer on
    Linux. That lets me drop a file containing the page URL. So useable via drag-and-drop.

    Jim

    --
    Please use the address on the audiomisc page if you wish to email me. Electronics https://www.st-andrews.ac.uk/~www_pa/Scots_Guide/intro/electron.htm
    biog http://jcgl.orpheusweb.co.uk/history/ups_and_downs.html
    Audio Misc http://www.audiomisc.co.uk/index.html

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