I believe the Rolling Stones have stopped playing 'Brown Sugar' at
concerts as they are retrospectively unhappy with the lyrics. Can
they withdraw consent for radio play or does the broadcaster have
perpetual rights to its back catalogue?
On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:26:24 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I believe the Rolling Stones have stopped playing 'Brown Sugar' at
concerts as they are retrospectively unhappy with the lyrics. Can
they withdraw consent for radio play or does the broadcaster have
perpetual rights to its back catalogue?
It's a bit more complicated than that - ask Taylor Swift! The Stones
can choose not to sing anything they choose but stopping other people
playing their music is something else. The Stones asked Donald Trump
not to play "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and he ignored them
because they don't own the song. BMG who DO own the song ordered him
to stop and I believe that's still an ongoing matter. Brown Sugar is
owned by ABKCO so stopping other people playing it is a matter for
them.
On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:26:24 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I believe the Rolling Stones have stopped playing 'Brown Sugar' at
concerts as they are retrospectively unhappy with the lyrics. Can
they withdraw consent for radio play or does the broadcaster have
perpetual rights to its back catalogue?
It's a bit more complicated than that - ask Taylor Swift! The Stones
can choose not to sing anything they choose but stopping other people
playing their music is something else. The Stones asked Donald Trump
not to play "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and he ignored them
because they don't own the song. BMG who DO own the song ordered him
to stop and I believe that's still an ongoing matter. Brown Sugar is
owned by ABKCO so stopping other people playing it is a matter for
them.
I believe the Rolling Stones have stopped playing 'Brown Sugar' at
concerts as they are retrospectively unhappy with the lyrics. Can
they withdraw consent for radio play or does the broadcaster have
perpetual rights to its back catalogue?
On 22/12/2021 19:34, Nick Odell wrote:
On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:26:24 +0000, Scott(UK rules) Another thing to consider is that most radio stations and other outlets such as music venues don't submit a playlist to the rights administrators until after the show is broadcast or performed, so unless
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I believe the Rolling Stones have stopped playing 'Brown Sugar' at
concerts as they are retrospectively unhappy with the lyrics. Can
they withdraw consent for radio play or does the broadcaster have
perpetual rights to its back catalogue?
It's a bit more complicated than that - ask Taylor Swift! The Stones
can choose not to sing anything they choose but stopping other people
playing their music is something else. The Stones asked Donald Trump
not to play "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and he ignored them
because they don't own the song. BMG who DO own the song ordered him
to stop and I believe that's still an ongoing matter. Brown Sugar is
owned by ABKCO so stopping other people playing it is a matter for
them.
the copyright holder gets proactive and tells *everyone* beforehand it's
too late by the time they find out.
When I looked into setting up a restricted licence station, I would have
been allowed to broadcast anything the presenters wanted to, with
limitations for decency and such, then just tell the MCPS and PRS what we
had sent out, and they sent the copyright fees to the holder. Approval for broadcast is assumed.
--
Tciao for Now!
John.
On Wed, 22 Dec 2021 18:26:24 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
I believe the Rolling Stones have stopped playing 'Brown Sugar' at
concerts as they are retrospectively unhappy with the lyrics. Can
they withdraw consent for radio play or does the broadcaster have
perpetual rights to its back catalogue?
It's a bit more complicated than that - ask Taylor Swift! The Stones
can choose not to sing anything they choose but stopping other people
playing their music is something else. The Stones asked Donald Trump
not to play "You Can't Always Get What You Want" and he ignored them
because they don't own the song. BMG who DO own the song ordered him
to stop and I believe that's still an ongoing matter. Brown Sugar is
owned by ABKCO so stopping other people playing it is a matter for
them.
Nick
Another thing now seems to be that you do not even need to log what you play >any more. Several people tell me there are special licences now, often used >by internet radio stations.
The whole field is a bit of a mess, I think.
Brian
My rudimentary understanding is that there are three rights -
composer's rights, performer's rights and mechanical rights. Does
ABKCO own all three, or do the mechanical rights trump the others?
Well you cannot change history, they of all people should know that. I think we are far too sensitive personally. Culture and acceptability changes over time, but it should be continued as it serves to educate people what has
gone before.
For a station like Radio 2 or Smooth, I assume the process is
virtually automated.
On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:54:46 +0000, Scott
<newsgroups@gefion.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:48:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" >><briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Another thing now seems to be that you do not even need to log what you play >>>any more. Several people tell me there are special licences now, often used >>>by internet radio stations.
The whole field is a bit of a mess, I think.
Brian
I assume this is for very small stations with modest royalty payments.
For a station like Radio 2 or Smooth, I assume the process is
virtually automated.
On TV drama shoots, I've seen PAs (amongst their many other duties)
logging any copyright tune that any character whistled, hummed or sang
by timing it *to the second* with a stopwatch. The same would also
have to be done for any other music added during the edit.
Permission would of course have to be obtained or assured before the
shoot because if it later turned out that there was no permission for >somebody to sing something, the whole scene would have to be re-shot,
or dropped entirely. Music in TV dramas is never spontaneous; somebody
always has to do the paperwork.
On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 09:48:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" ><briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Another thing now seems to be that you do not even need to log what you play >>any more. Several people tell me there are special licences now, often used >>by internet radio stations.
The whole field is a bit of a mess, I think.
Brian
I assume this is for very small stations with modest royalty payments.
For a station like Radio 2 or Smooth, I assume the process is
virtually automated.
For a station like Radio 2 or Smooth, I assume the process is
virtually automated.
Most of the commercial stations have a very limited playlist, perhaps couple of
hundred songs they play daily, or even more than once a day, every day, every >week, with rare changes. All automated.
Some even have two or more songs by the same artist on heavy rotation so you >hear that artist maybe once an hour. Can not imagine people stay listening to >such stations for many days.
I listen to Soho Radio (via Mixcloud), where hearing the same song more than >once a year is rare, so much new music and so many volunteer presenters from >different genres. Don't know how they handle mechanical rights, hopefully by >the hour.
Angus
On 23/12/2021 09:41, Scott wrote:
My rudimentary understanding is that there are three rights -As I understand it, in the UK, a broadcaster informs the MCPS that they
composer's rights, performer's rights and mechanical rights. Does
ABKCO own all three, or do the mechanical rights trump the others?
have played a track, and the money is then apportioned to the
performers, writers and publishers according to a fixed schedule set
down in their licence conditions. One person or organisation can hold
all three sets of rights,usually by paying the original holders a fee.
If they play out a live performance, or one they have themselves
recorded, the money goes to the same people through the PRS.
Stations with a small audience pay less, but their plays are ignored
when calculating the payments to the rights holders. If I play, say,
Brown Sugar, to my couple of thousand listeners,(I would be running a
upto a few watts into AM or FM, and the usable radius is less than five >miles) the Stones (Or whoever owns the rights) doesn't get any richer,
but if Radio 1 or Eadio 2 plays it, then they become noticeably better
off. They also get very, very sightly better off if I stream it at home
from one of the licenced streaming services. If they wished to, the
Stones could issue a take down order to a streaming service such as
Spotify or Youtube, but not so easily, if at all, to a radio station.
In the USA, "permitted usage" and "fair usage" rights come into play,
and these can not be overridden by the rights holder.
For a station like Radio 2 or Smooth, I assume the process is
virtually automated.
Most of the commercial stations have a very limited playlist, perhaps couple of
hundred songs they play daily, or even more than once a day, every day, every week, with rare changes. All automated.
Some even have two or more songs by the same artist on heavy rotation so you hear that artist maybe once an hour. Can not imagine people stay listening to
such stations for many days.
I listen to Soho Radio (via Mixcloud), where hearing the same song more than once a year is rare, so much new music and so many volunteer presenters from different genres. Don't know how they handle mechanical rights, hopefully by the hour.
Angus
Some even have two or more songs by the same artist on heavyrotation so you >hear that artist maybe once an hour.
I assume this is for station 'image' not a way of saving money?
Does every track cost the same in royalties or does it depend on
length, age or individual agreement with each artist?
On Thu, 23 Dec 2021 11:09:26 +0000, John Williamson <johnwilliamson@btinternet.com> wrote:
On 23/12/2021 09:41, Scott wrote:
My rudimentary understanding is that there are three rights -As I understand it, in the UK, a broadcaster informs the MCPS that they
composer's rights, performer's rights and mechanical rights. Does
ABKCO own all three, or do the mechanical rights trump the others?
have played a track, and the money is then apportioned to the
performers, writers and publishers according to a fixed schedule set
down in their licence conditions. One person or organisation can hold
all three sets of rights,usually by paying the original holders a fee.
If they play out a live performance, or one they have themselves
recorded, the money goes to the same people through the PRS.
What constitutes a 'performer' then? Do backing singers and session musicians count? If it's an orchestra, does every musician get a cut
or is there effectively a 'lead performer' with all the rights
assigned to him/her/it? This would make the orchestra the performer
rather than its members.
Stations with a small audience pay less, but their plays are ignored
when calculating the payments to the rights holders. If I play, say,
Brown Sugar, to my couple of thousand listeners,(I would be running a
upto a few watts into AM or FM, and the usable radius is less than five
miles) the Stones (Or whoever owns the rights) doesn't get any richer,
but if Radio 1 or Eadio 2 plays it, then they become noticeably better
off. They also get very, very sightly better off if I stream it at home >>from one of the licenced streaming services. If they wished to, the
Stones could issue a take down order to a streaming service such as
Spotify or Youtube, but not so easily, if at all, to a radio station.
Does PRS deal with all three rights?
Most of the commercial stations have a very limited playlist, perhaps couple of
hundred songs they play daily, or even more than once a day, every day, every week, with rare changes. All automated.
Well you cannot change history, they of all people should know that. I think we are far too sensitive personally. Culture and acceptability changes over time, but it should be continued as it serves to educate people what has
gone before.
If you stop Brown Sugar that probably would put most releases in the mid 60s to the late 70s of all kinds out of the question.
There are some old blues numbers out there with very obvious sexual references in them after all. Depends how far you want to go.
Have a listen to a 90s album recorded by Dana Gillespie called hot stuff. They are all very old compositions and do not leave much to the imagination on their sexual content.
Brian
On 23/12/2021 09:34, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Well you cannot change history, they of all people should know that. I think
we are far too sensitive personally. Culture and acceptability changes over time, but it should be continued as it serves to educate people what has gone before.
If you stop Brown Sugar that probably would put most releases in the mid 60s
to the late 70s of all kinds out of the question.
There are some old blues numbers out there with very obvious sexual references in them after all. Depends how far you want to go.
Have a listen to a 90s album recorded by Dana Gillespie called hot stuff. They are all very old compositions and do not leave much to the imagination on their sexual content.
Brian
What about "She had to go and lose it at the Astor"?
What about "She had to go and lose it at the Astor"?...or "The Wedding of the Gigolo".
..or almost anything by Ronald Frankau. The material he wrote and
performed is still quite 'surprising', even nowadays, and was totally
banned by the BBC..
...or Annette Mills, who performed cabaret for the troops during WWII
and certainly understood her audience and their sense of humour.
...or Max Miller...
...or Billy Bennett (who carefully slipped a few old army jokes in
amongst apparent nonsense).
On 23/12/2021 18:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
What about "She had to go and lose it at the Astor"?...or "The Wedding of the Gigolo".
..or almost anything by Ronald Frankau. The material he wrote and
performed is still quite 'surprising', even nowadays, and was totally
banned by the BBC..
...or Annette Mills, who performed cabaret for the troops during WWII
and certainly understood her audience and their sense of humour.
...or Max Miller...
...or Billy Bennett (who carefully slipped a few old army jokes in
amongst apparent nonsense).
Durium Dance Band?
Cliff Edwards-- I'm a bear in a lady's boudoir
Sophie Tucker?
Mae West -- A guy that takes his time
Bill
On 23/12/2021 18:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
What about "She had to go and lose it at the Astor"?...or "The Wedding of the Gigolo".
..or almost anything by Ronald Frankau. The material he wrote and performed is still quite 'surprising', even nowadays, and was totally banned by the BBC..
...or Annette Mills, who performed cabaret for the troops during WWII
and certainly understood her audience and their sense of humour.
...or Max Miller...
...or Billy Bennett (who carefully slipped a few old army jokes in
amongst apparent nonsense).
Durium Dance Band?
Cliff Edwards-- I'm a bear in a lady's boudoir
Sophie Tucker?
Mae West -- A guy that takes his time
Didn't Noddy Holder once say Merry Xmas Everybody is his pension fund.
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:
On 23/12/2021 18:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
What about "She had to go and lose it at the Astor"?...or "The Wedding of the Gigolo".
..or almost anything by Ronald Frankau. The material he wrote and
performed is still quite 'surprising', even nowadays, and was totally
banned by the BBC..
...or Annette Mills, who performed cabaret for the troops during WWII
and certainly understood her audience and their sense of humour.
...or Max Miller...
...or Billy Bennett (who carefully slipped a few old army jokes in
amongst apparent nonsense).
Durium Dance Band?
Cliff Edwards-- I'm a bear in a lady's boudoir
Sophie Tucker?
Mae West -- A guy that takes his time
...or even Gracie Fields:
It was a stormy Winter's night
The wind was blowin' wild.
When down the village street
There came the father of her child.
She wasn't married...
...but he was!
On Fri, 24 Dec 2021 at 09:26:16, Liz Tuddenham ><liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid> wrote (my responses usually follow
points raised):
williamwright <wrightsaerials@f2s.com> wrote:Or Eartha Kitt, "Give me a Knight for my Nights" - _can_ be interpreted
On 23/12/2021 18:54, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
What about "She had to go and lose it at the Astor"?...or "The Wedding of the Gigolo".
..or almost anything by Ronald Frankau. The material he wrote and
performed is still quite 'surprising', even nowadays, and was totally
banned by the BBC..
...or Annette Mills, who performed cabaret for the troops during WWII
and certainly understood her audience and their sense of humour.
...or Max Miller...
...or Billy Bennett (who carefully slipped a few old army jokes in
amongst apparent nonsense).
Durium Dance Band?
Cliff Edwards-- I'm a bear in a lady's boudoir
Sophie Tucker?
Mae West -- A guy that takes his time
...or even Gracie Fields:
It was a stormy Winter's night
The wind was blowin' wild.
When down the village street
There came the father of her child.
She wasn't married...
...but he was!
as quite innocent, but sure isn't intended to be, especially the way she >sings it! (Given it's the title music for a Frankie Howerd film ...)
Or Eartha Kitt, "Give me a Knight for my Nights" - _can_ be interpreted as quite innocent, but sure isn't intended to be, especially the way she
sings it! (Given it's the title music for a Frankie Howerd film ...)
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