• Atrocious subtitles - why STILL?

    From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 12 15:08:55 2021
    I've just watched (14:30-14:57, BBC News channel) the (depressing but informative) documentary on Afghanistan, made by Clan Productions
    (though with BBC producers, or something like that, in the credits).

    WHY, after what must be 40-50 YEARS of subtitles, are companies (Clan
    are not alone) still producing illegible subtitles? Does nobody check
    them? (The obvious answer is no.)

    It's not as if it's a technology problem: the BBC's own subtitles, which
    I turned on to see, are clear white on a black strip. The subtitles for
    the Afghan speakers were white, with a black (or dark) shadow to the
    bottom right, slightly larger than, or the same size as, the letters.
    This must be _more_ difficult to generate, technically, than white text
    on a black strip. The shadow to the bottom right of the letters meant
    the top left was bare against the background - not very useful with
    white text against white beards.

    Sorry, rant over - it just does make me cross that, after all this time, apparently professional companies - this was a (nearly) half-hour
    programme, otherwise quite well done by the look of it, not just some
    video grabbed from a security camera or similar. And that the BBC are
    accepting such material, and presumably paying quite a lot for it. (And
    I'm not just talking about subtitles for the hearing-impaired [though
    those are important too - but on the whole BBC News does those OK]:
    these are needed for the _majority_ of viewers [I don't think many of us
    speak the Afghani languages].)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 12 15:58:53 2021
    J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

    The subtitles for the Afghan speakers were white, with a black (or dark) shadow to the bottom right, slightly larger than, or the same size as,
    the letters. This must be _more_ difficult to generate, technically,
    than white text on a black strip. The shadow to the bottom right of the letters meant the top left was bare against the background - not very
    useful with white text against white beards.

    Seems pretty sharp and legible to me ...

    <http://andyburns.uk/misc/bbc-subtitles.png>

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  • From J. P. Gilliver (John)@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sun Sep 12 17:41:30 2021
    On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 at 15:58:53, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote
    (my responses usually follow points raised):
    J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

    The subtitles for the Afghan speakers were white, with a black (or
    dark) shadow to the bottom right, slightly larger than, or the same
    size as, the letters. This must be _more_ difficult to generate, >>technically, than white text on a black strip. The shadow to the
    bottom right of the letters meant the top left was bare against the >>background - not very useful with white text against white beards.

    Seems pretty sharp and legible to me ...

    <http://andyburns.uk/misc/bbc-subtitles.png>

    I agree, your example seems fairly clear. Though I think you're viewing
    at more than SD, and perhaps there were some whiter beards ...

    But even if this doc. was fine, the fact remains that quite a few
    hard-to-read subtitles are still being put out.
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Heaven forbid today's audience should feel bombarded with information or
    worse, lectured. Dont'scare the horses by waving facts around.
    - David Butcher, RT 2014/11/29-12/5

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 12 17:59:13 2021
    J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

    Andy Burns wrote:

    <http://andyburns.uk/misc/bbc-subtitles.png>

    I agree, your example seems fairly clear. Though I think you're viewing
    at more than SD

    yes, it's semi-HD from iPlayer, would be better res from my tuner card

    and perhaps there were some whiter beards ...

    :-)

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  • From Stephen Wolstenholme@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 12 18:24:53 2021
    On Sun, 12 Sep 2021 15:58:53 +0100, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
    wrote:

    J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

    The subtitles for the Afghan speakers were white, with a black (or dark)
    shadow to the bottom right, slightly larger than, or the same size as,
    the letters. This must be _more_ difficult to generate, technically,
    than white text on a black strip. The shadow to the bottom right of the
    letters meant the top left was bare against the background - not very
    useful with white text against white beards.

    Seems pretty sharp and legible to me ...

    <http://andyburns.uk/misc/bbc-subtitles.png>

    I think those subtitles are better than the simple white on black or
    black on white. The timing and duration of the subtitles are better as
    well. I had time to read them!

    --
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  • From Brian Gaff (Sofa)@21:1/5 to G6JPG@255soft.uk on Mon Sep 13 08:34:44 2021
    I give up watching programs like these where there is no audio translation present. What is the point of leaving the afghan language in there and not adding ad at least of the bits that need translation? I don't know in this case as I missed it but it seems to happen a lot on documentaries but less often in news packages where I suspect it is less of a problem to do as its fairly short.
    Brian

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    "J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message news:2+Ltkc+3ngPhFwjz@255soft.uk...
    I've just watched (14:30-14:57, BBC News channel) the (depressing but informative) documentary on Afghanistan, made by Clan Productions (though with BBC producers, or something like that, in the credits).

    WHY, after what must be 40-50 YEARS of subtitles, are companies (Clan are
    not alone) still producing illegible subtitles? Does nobody check them?
    (The obvious answer is no.)

    It's not as if it's a technology problem: the BBC's own subtitles, which I turned on to see, are clear white on a black strip. The subtitles for the Afghan speakers were white, with a black (or dark) shadow to the bottom right, slightly larger than, or the same size as, the letters. This must
    be _more_ difficult to generate, technically, than white text on a black strip. The shadow to the bottom right of the letters meant the top left
    was bare against the background - not very useful with white text against white beards.

    Sorry, rant over - it just does make me cross that, after all this time, apparently professional companies - this was a (nearly) half-hour
    programme, otherwise quite well done by the look of it, not just some
    video grabbed from a security camera or similar. And that the BBC are accepting such material, and presumably paying quite a lot for it. (And
    I'm not just talking about subtitles for the hearing-impaired [though
    those are important too - but on the whole BBC News does those OK]: these
    are needed for the _majority_ of viewers [I don't think many of us speak
    the Afghani languages].)
    --
    J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

    Never raise your hand to your children. It leaves your mid-section unprotected

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