Although some are still using these transmission systems, very few radios >will receive them.I'd have thought that it might have made talk radio on >medium wave work better through the interference, or was it scuttled by the >fading and co channel problems in the end?
Brian
On Thu, 9 Dec 2021 08:21:53 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Although some are still using these transmission systems, very few radios >>will receive them.I'd have thought that it might have made talk radio on >>medium wave work better through the interference, or was it scuttled by
the
fading and co channel problems in the end?
Brian
Essentially I think it was overtaken by DAB. AIUI, DRM sets are very expensive and offer little benefit over the existing DAB networks (particularly if bitrates could be upgraded). There is now a phased
closure programme for MW transmitters so I assume it would be
impossible to create a business case to invest in DRM via this
platform.
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system as it stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it should have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk stuff was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good unprocessed output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the talk stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band, have better coverage and
by the economy of scale decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to decode them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should work.
Just an opinion
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV world there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content, but one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Brian
This DAB knocking by the HiFi community is getting tedious. Regardless of
how it might have been sold by marketing folk in years gone by, it’s perfectly good enough for in car listening. I spent ages wondering why folk moaned about coverage, as listening to BBC stations in my car never caused
me a problem. Only when Times Radio came along did I tumble. It seems that some of the commercial multiplexes have transmitters few and far between, unlike the BBC. That’s not a failing of DAB as a technology.
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 09:53:26 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system as it >> stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it should >> have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk stuff >> was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good unprocessed >> output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the talk
stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band,
But the problem is that the BBC is committed to closing the medium
wave transmitters, so why would anyone want to invest money when
essentially this would simply replicate DAB?
have better coverage and
by the economy of scale
Economy would depend on closing DAB, which won't be happening.
Simulcasting is by definition not economy.
decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM
short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to decode >> them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should
work.
Just an opinion
But where is the market? Home has Internet radio and car radios do
not receive short wave.
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed
digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals
dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV world
there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content, but >> one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Not DAB. I thought the extra signal was on AM to provide stereo AM.
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system as it stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it should have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk stuff was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good unprocessed output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the talk stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band, have better coverage and
by the economy of scale decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to decode them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should work.
Just an opinion
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV world there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content, but one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Brian
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system as it >stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it should >have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk stuff >was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good unprocessed >output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the talk >stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band,
have better coverage and
by the economy of scale
decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM
short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to decode >them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should
work.
Just an opinion
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed >digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals >dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV world >there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content, but >one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Woody wrote:
It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
Is this for car radios in India
On Sat 11/12/2021 11:23, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 09:53:26 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"ISTR that DRM was used on MW at least for a trial by a local radio
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system as it
stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it should
have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk stuff >>> was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good unprocessed >>> output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the talk >>> stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band,
But the problem is that the BBC is committed to closing the medium
wave transmitters, so why would anyone want to invest money when
essentially this would simply replicate DAB?
have better coverage and
by the economy of scale
Economy would depend on closing DAB, which won't be happening.
Simulcasting is by definition not economy.
decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM
short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to decode >>> them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should >>> work.
Just an opinion
But where is the market? Home has Internet radio and car radios do
not receive short wave.
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed
digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals >>> dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV world >>> there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content, but >>> one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Not DAB. I thought the extra signal was on AM to provide stereo AM.
station in the Ipswich area, and a quick Google shows it was also tried
on BBC Devon in about 2007. It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
How many cars have a HiFi system?
Scott wrote:
Woody wrote:
It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
Is this for car radios in India
<https://www.drm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/DRM-in-the-World-Leaflet-10.11.2021.pdf>
"There are over 4.2 million cars fitted with DRM receivers
already on the roads in India"
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
Andy Burns wrote:
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
Lets assume six listeners per set. This would mean 150 million
receivers. Surely if anyone had manufactured this number there would
be a documentary record and a global market?
Scott wrote:
Woody wrote:
It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
Is this for car radios in India
<https://www.drm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/DRM-in-the-World-Leaflet-10.11.2021.pdf>
"There are over 4.2 million cars fitted with DRM receivers
already on the roads in India"
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
How many cars have a HiFi system?
Scott wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
Lets assume six listeners per set. This would mean 150 million
receivers. Surely if anyone had manufactured this number there would
be a documentary record and a global market?
I assumed it meant 900m live within DRM coverage
On 11/12/2021 10:20, Tweed wrote:
This DAB knocking by the HiFi community is getting tedious. Regardless of
how it might have been sold by marketing folk in years gone by, it’s
perfectly good enough for in car listening. I spent ages wondering why
folk
moaned about coverage, as listening to BBC stations in my car never
caused
me a problem. Only when Times Radio came along did I tumble. It seems
that
some of the commercial multiplexes have transmitters few and far between,
unlike the BBC. That’s not a failing of DAB as a technology.
It is surprising how well DAB coverage is even in the Highlands, places
where it is poor tend to be places where VHF FM is poor and often worse.
 It would not need much to fill in many of the gaps, the money saved
from closing the VHF FM network could fund it though not going to happen unfortunately.
On Sat 11/12/2021 11:23, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 09:53:26 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system
as it
stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it
should
have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk
stuff
was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good
unprocessed
output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the
talk
stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band,
But the problem is that the BBC is committed to closing the medium
wave transmitters, so why would anyone want to invest money when
essentially this would simply replicate DAB?
have better coverage and
by the economy of scale
Economy would depend on closing DAB, which won't be happening.
Simulcasting is by definition not economy.
decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM
short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to
decode
them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should >>> work.
Just an opinion
But where is the market? Home has Internet radio and car radios do
not receive short wave.
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed
digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the
signals
dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV
world
there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content,
but
one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Not DAB. I thought the extra signal was on AM to provide stereo AM.
ISTR that DRM was used on MW at least for a trial by a local radio station
in the Ipswich area, and a quick Google shows it was also tried on BBC
Devon in about 2007. It would appear that it is still widely used on MW across the whole of India.
On Sat 11/12/2021 11:44, MB wrote:
On 11/12/2021 10:20, Tweed wrote:
This DAB knocking by the HiFi community is getting tedious. Regardless
of
how it might have been sold by marketing folk in years gone by, it's
perfectly good enough for in car listening. I spent ages wondering why
folk
moaned about coverage, as listening to BBC stations in my car never
caused
me a problem. Only when Times Radio came along did I tumble. It seems
that
some of the commercial multiplexes have transmitters few and far
between,
unlike the BBC. That's not a failing of DAB as a technology.
It is surprising how well DAB coverage is even in the Highlands, places
where it is poor tend to be places where VHF FM is poor and often worse.
It would not need much to fill in many of the gaps, the money saved from
closing the VHF FM network could fund it though not going to happen
unfortunately.
Yes, but they would need to make it sound better first by changing all
music stations to DAB+ - which is more resilient anyway.
I am in Harrogate. The nearest ClassicFM DAB muxes to which there might be
a viable signal path are Emley Moor, Holme Moss, Belmont, and Bilsdale as was. The new mini-Bilsdale clearly doesn't cover as well as the old mast
did* as we have holes in Classic all over the place around here that were
not holes before the fire.
(*Given of course that the new aerials are only about 60m up whereas the
old ones were in the high 200's, plus the 3dB-ish less erp of
mini-Bilsdale.)
If you have a car radio that will work with DAB+ try JazzFM, Smooth Extra, Gold, or Heart Extra - just 4 of the 11 national stations - or any one of about 130 local stations using it (Google is your friend!) You will soon notice the difference - especially when you go back to Radio2!!
Brian Gaff \(Sofa\) <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system as
it
stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it
should
have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk
stuff
was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good
unprocessed
output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the talk
stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band, have better coverage
and
by the economy of scale decoding it would be cheap After all there are
DRM
short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to
decode
them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should
work.
Just an opinion
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed
digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals
dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV world
there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content,
but
one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Brian
This DAB knocking by the HiFi community is getting tedious. Regardless of
how it might have been sold by marketing folk in years gone by, it's perfectly good enough for in car listening. I spent ages wondering why
folk
moaned about coverage, as listening to BBC stations in my car never caused
me a problem. Only when Times Radio came along did I tumble. It seems that some of the commercial multiplexes have transmitters few and far between, unlike the BBC. That's not a failing of DAB as a technology.
If you want to listen in better quality at home there's plenty of high quality Internet streams available.
Likewise, DRM on shortwave is a dead end technology because everything is available on Internet streams around the world. The only real
justification
for shortwave broadcasting is to reach populations suffering under
repressive regimes where Internet streams may be blocked or give away what you are listening to. I suspect it would be fairly hard to obtain a DRM capable receiver in those countries.
As to Medium Wave DRM transmissions, where's the market these days? You aren't going to get the public to rush out to buy a suitable receiver in anything like the numbers needed to make a station viable.
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:45:26 +0000, Woody <harrogate3@ntlworld.com>
wrote:
On Sat 11/12/2021 11:23, Scott wrote:Is this for car radios in India as I cannot find any domestic
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 09:53:26 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)"ISTR that DRM was used on MW at least for a trial by a local radio
<briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system >>>> as it
stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it
should
have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk
stuff
was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good
unprocessed
output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the
talk
stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band,
But the problem is that the BBC is committed to closing the medium
wave transmitters, so why would anyone want to invest money when
essentially this would simply replicate DAB?
have better coverage and
by the economy of scale
Economy would depend on closing DAB, which won't be happening.
Simulcasting is by definition not economy.
decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM
short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to
decode
them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but
should
work.
Just an opinion
But where is the market? Home has Internet radio and car radios do
not receive short wave.
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed >>>> digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the
signals
dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV
world
there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content, >>>> but
one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Not DAB. I thought the extra signal was on AM to provide stereo AM.
station in the Ipswich area, and a quick Google shows it was also tried
on BBC Devon in about 2007. It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
equipment at a reasonable price?
Is it broadcast on MW? Also, does DRM have exclusive use of the
frequency or does the AM signal remain?
Scott wrote:
Woody wrote:
It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
Is this for car radios in India
<https://www.drm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/DRM-in-the-World-Leaflet-10.11.2021.pdf>
"There are over 4.2 million cars fitted with DRM receivers
already on the roads in India"
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to.
Scott wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
Lets assume six listeners per set. This would mean 150 million
receivers. Surely if anyone had manufactured this number there would
be a documentary record and a global market?
I assumed it meant 900m live within DRM coverage
Well If you base everything on in car results then we are not talking the same language, the huge compression used on fm and dab are not needed on the transmission of dab, since all of that can be done receiver side if need be. Then if a decent bit rate was used the muddling of phase info would be much reduced as well.
We need another hi fi boom perhaps?
Brian
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 11:39:14 +0000, MB wrote:
How many cars have a HiFi system?
My Nissan Leaf has a Bose audio system but I don't know how high its fi
is as I have considerable hearing loss.
--
TOJ
DRM is not am compatible as far as I know. It sounds very like a radio
jammer in am, and has very sharp cut offs after what looks like about 7khz but its hard to be sure as I cannot see waterfall or spectrum displays.
Brian
DRM is not am compatible as far as I know. It sounds very like a radio
jammer in am, and has very sharp cut offs after what looks like about 7khz but its hard to be sure as I cannot see waterfall or spectrum displays.
Brian
In that case then receivers should be cheap.
However from the guy i spoke to the USA has near the transmitters some piggy backed hi fi digital signals on many fm outlets on the same transmitter. How its done, I have no idea, but it must obviously take some bandwidth or signal away from FM as you don't get extra stuff for free, just look at the his levels in multiplex stereo.
Brian
I don't think so. I think what you get is Sirius XM satellite radio, for which you have to pay a subscription.
Otherwise most radio is relatively local - there's no national stations so drivers typically move through areas of multiple stations on a journey. I think this results in radio being relatively parochial (local talk stations, etc) and so people tend to use either internet streaming or media stored on their device. Apple Carplay and Android Auto are popular for this.
On 12/12/2021 12:14, Tweed wrote:
If you want to increase bit rates on
DAB you have two choices: force everyone to DAB+ and consequently obsolete >> a lot of hardware, or cut down the number if stations being transmitted, or >> both.
But frequencies aren't the problem. It's transmission costs and
regulation. Most DAB frequencies are empty.
As a matter of interest, does each multiplex have its own antenna onAt some sites all the muxes share the same antenna, at others one or
the transmitter mast or can they be broadcast from the same antenna?
Where is the main additional cost in adding another multiplex?The cost of the transmitter.
If you want to increase bit rates on
DAB you have two choices: force everyone to DAB+ and consequently obsolete
a lot of hardware, or cut down the number if stations being transmitted, or both.
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:
Scott wrote:
Woody wrote:
It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
Is this for car radios in India
<https://www.drm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/DRM-in-the-World-Leaflet-10.11.2021.pdf>
"There are over 4.2 million cars fitted with DRM receivers
already on the roads in India"
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
There’s around 300 million cars in India….
Op 11-12-2021 om 14:25 schreef Tweed:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:and almost 1.300.000.000 people.....
Scott wrote:There’s around 300 million cars in India….
Woody wrote:
It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
Is this for car radios in India
<https://www.drm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/DRM-in-the-World-Leaflet-10.11.2021.pdf>
"There are over 4.2 million cars fitted with DRM receivers
already on the roads in India"
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
ISTR that DRM was used on MW at least for a trial by a local radio station in the Ipswich area, and a quick Google shows it was also tried on BBC Devon in about 2007.
ISTR that DRM was used on MW at least for a trial by a local radioNo. That was AM Stereo back in the 1980s, nothing to do with DRM
station in the Ipswich area,
and a quick Google shows it was also tried on BBC Devon in about 2007. I
On 12/12/2021 12:14, Tweed wrote:
If you want to increase bit rates on
DAB you have two choices: force everyone to DAB+ and consequently obsolete >> a lot of hardware, or cut down the number if stations being transmitted, or >> both.
But frequencies aren't the problem. It's transmission costs and
regulation. Most DAB frequencies are empty.
Bill
The cost of the transmitter.
The cost of providing the feed of that mux to the site.
The cost of modifying the antenna combining unit to accept another mux
(or the cost of installing an antenna to radiate the mux).
Sometimes the cost to provide an additional cabin to house the transmitter.
On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 17:54:05 +0100, Rink
<rink.hof.haalditmaarweg@planet.nl> wrote:
Op 11-12-2021 om 14:25 schreef Tweed:
Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk> wrote:and almost 1.300.000.000 people.....
Scott wrote:There’s around 300 million cars in India….
Woody wrote:
It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.
Is this for car radios in India
<https://www.drm.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/11/DRM-in-the-World-Leaflet-10.11.2021.pdf>
"There are over 4.2 million cars fitted with DRM receivers
already on the roads in India"
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
This sounds reasonable if you assume two or three children per family,
many non-drivers and probably two car households being in the
minority.
DRM RECEIVERS FOR INDIA
https://trai.gov.in › sites › default › files › DRM_...
are growing by the month with DRM radios incorporated at no extra
charge to the user (as it is an extra free feature in any new car);.
5 pages
"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:[]
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed
Otherwise most radio is relatively local - there's no national stations so >drivers typically move through areas of multiple stations on a journey. I >think this results in radio being relatively parochial (local talk stations, >etc) and so people tend to use either internet streaming or media stored on >their device. Apple Carplay and Android Auto are popular for this.
Theo
Some years ago, while on a visit to USA, my brother and his partner
decided to see the Grand Canyon - but didn't go direct to it, they
landed at (IIRR) Flagstaff, and drove to it (I forget why). He told me
he couldn't find anything but country music right across the band.
On Sun, 12 Dec 2021 at 12:11:05, Theo <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
"Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:[]
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed
Otherwise most radio is relatively local - there's no national stations so >>drivers typically move through areas of multiple stations on a journey. I >>think this results in radio being relatively parochial (local talk >>stations,
etc) and so people tend to use either internet streaming or media stored
on
their device. Apple Carplay and Android Auto are popular for this.
Theo
Some years ago, while on a visit to USA, my brother and his partner
decided to see the Grand Canyon - but didn't go direct to it, they landed
at (IIRR) Flagstaff, and drove to it (I forget why). He told me he
couldn't find anything but country music right across the band.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
Everybody has the right to their own personal opinions. But nobody has a right to their own personal facts. The world just doesn't work that way. --scott (Dorsey, 2021-10-10)
That's quite good, was it modern country or the classic stuff. I have[]
This newsgroup posting comes to you directly from...[]
The Sofa of Brian Gaff...
"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6JPG@255soft.uk> wrote in message >news:6yhOr+BcUlthFwD6@255soft.uk...[]
[]Some years ago, while on a visit to USA, my brother and his partner
decided to see the Grand Canyon - but didn't go direct to it, they landed
at (IIRR) Flagstaff, and drove to it (I forget why). He told me he
couldn't find anything but country music right across the band.
That's quite good, was it modern country or the classic stuff. I have
noticed recently that many artists are putting out two albums of their
music, one very country, and one more aimed at the rock and pop market, so
be careful what you buy!
Brian
On 11/12/2021 09:53, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system as it >> stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it should >> have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk stuff >> was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good unprocessed >> output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the talk
stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band, have better coverage and >> by the economy of scale decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM >> short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to decode >> them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should >> work.
Just an opinion
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed
digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals
dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV world
there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content, but >> one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Brian
DAB is better than other MW or VHF FM in cars which is what it was
designed for.
How many cars have a HiFi system? The ones who spend a lot of money on
the car audio mostly seem to be just interested in it being loud.
I think all new cars have had DAB for some years, I don't have any
figures but suspect it the most used mode in cars.
I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend millions on switching to DRM
when there virtually no receivers around.
Does DRM perform better than DAB where the radio will combine more than
one received signal to give better reception. I have never seen a DRM
radio so no idea.
I remember discussions on the USENET digital radio newsgroup years ago. >Someone explained that the concept of a single MUX shared between a
number of stations, all giving equal signals, does not fit with the way
the Americans operate. They want the person with most money to have the >loudest signal.
Their digital system uses a combination of satellite and terrestrial and
I think is a subscription system.
In article <sp22l2$o04$1@dont-email.me>, MB <MB@nospam.net> scribethSome core channels are free, others are subs only.
thus
On 11/12/2021 09:53, Brian Gaff (Sofa) wrote:Well some quite recent cars i know of DAB isn't fitted..
Yes but I'm thinking not about DAB which in my view is a flawed system as itDAB is better than other MW or VHF FM in cars which is what it was
stands, its not hi fi and not really as mass market as one thought it should
have been since its bit rates have steadily reduced. If all the talk stuff >>> was removed from DAB and the stations had to adhere to a good unprocessed >>> output standard and used bit rates it had at the start, then all the talk >>> stations could be on drm medium wave narrow band, have better coverage and >>> by the economy of scale decoding it would be cheap After all there are DRM >>> short wave stations which I have heard demos of using a computer to decode >>> them and it takes a lot of interference to make them drop out.
It might mean making sure not too many co channels were used, but should >>> work.
Just an opinion
In the states, is DAB used? I know for some time a kind of piggy backed
digital mode was transmitted on fm which fell back to fm when the signals >>> dropped, but I'm not up to date with what they are up to. In the TV world >>> there does seem to be a lot more cable and internet delivered content, but >>> one supposes they must have digital TV transmission, similar to ours?
Brian
designed for.
How many cars have a HiFi system? The ones who spend a lot of money on
the car audio mostly seem to be just interested in it being loud.
I think all new cars have had DAB for some years, I don't have any
figures but suspect it the most used mode in cars.
But have discovered that a friends 2006! Audi A6 does have DAB in!..
I can't imagine anyone wanting to spend millions on switching to DRM
when there virtually no receivers around.
But do bear in mind that not everywhere is the UK or Europe, there are
places that are a lot larger and a conventional DAB or FM setup will
cost too much whereas DRM on HF could be of use!
ISTR that some chipsets had DRM included?, may be wrong on that but as
its just not used on the UK maybe its just not implemented!
Does DRM perform better than DAB where the radio will combine more thanThats just Audio Processing which on DAB can be louder!.. No need to
one received signal to give better reception. I have never seen a DRM
radio so no idea.
I remember discussions on the USENET digital radio newsgroup years ago.
Someone explained that the concept of a single MUX shared between a
number of stations, all giving equal signals, does not fit with the way
the Americans operate. They want the person with most money to have the
loudest signal.
worry about over deviating the FM exciter!. Ands as its down to a
regulatory constraint money doesn't come into it as such!.
Their digital system uses a combination of satellite and terrestrial andSort of IIRC!..
I think is a subscription system.
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 13:40:17 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Scott wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
Lets assume six listeners per set. This would mean 150 million
receivers. Surely if anyone had manufactured this number there would
be a documentary record and a global market?
I assumed it meant 900m live within DRM coverage
The initial claim was: 'It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.'
Probably most of the UK population live within LW coverage but this
does not make it 'widely used' for listening to Radio 4.
I would be interested to know if domestic DRM receivers are available
at all, let alone in a mass market.
On 11/12/2021 16:44, Scott wrote:
On Sat, 11 Dec 2021 13:40:17 +0000, Andy Burns <usenet@andyburns.uk>
wrote:
Scott wrote:
Andy Burns wrote:
but the same document claims 900m [potential] Indian listeners
Lets assume six listeners per set. This would mean 150 million
receivers. Surely if anyone had manufactured this number there would
be a documentary record and a global market?
I assumed it meant 900m live within DRM coverage
The initial claim was: 'It would appear that it is still widely used
on MW across the whole of India.'
Probably most of the UK population live within LW coverage but this
does not make it 'widely used' for listening to Radio 4.
I would be interested to know if domestic DRM receivers are available
at all, let alone in a mass market.
https://www.drm.org/drm-receivers/
Australia is making DRM radios as they have started DRM services.
I would be interested to know if domestic DRM receivers are available
at all, let alone in a mass market.
https://www.drm.org/drm-receivers/
Avion is flagged up as a suspicious website.
Australia is making DRM radios as they have started DRM services.
Is this the one? https://www.tecsunradios.com.au/store/product/tecsun-drm-radio/
I can't see the price point being attractive to the Indian market.
On 17/12/2021 18:40, Scott wrote:
I would be interested to know if domestic DRM receivers are available
at all, let alone in a mass market.
https://www.drm.org/drm-receivers/
Avion is flagged up as a suspicious website.
So it is.
Australia is making DRM radios as they have started DRM services.
Is this the one?
https://www.tecsunradios.com.au/store/product/tecsun-drm-radio/
I can't see the price point being attractive to the Indian market.
Yes, that's it. Prices may fall when the Aussies start services
properly. Also the Chinese seem to be using DRM.
On Mon, 13 Dec 2021 08:27:03 -0000, "Brian Gaff \(Sofa\)" <briang1@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
That's quite good, was it modern country or the classic stuff. I have >>noticed recently that many artists are putting out two albums of their >>music, one very country, and one more aimed at the rock and pop market, so >>be careful what you buy!
Brian
Friend of mine said she liked all types of music. 'Not folk?', I
asked. She replied, 'No, not folk - or country'. I said, 'The one
thing that can be said about country is that it's not as bad as folk'. 'That's true', she replied.
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