Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.
In article <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.
A few points.
Older plug leads (carbon string) can fail. Examine them carefully for
signs of cracking. Measure their resistance (they are so much per foot, so will vary by length) But a faulty one will be very much higher per foot. Don't forget to check the king lead too.
While the leads are off, look for signs of corrosion where they plug in.
If replacing, get a decent quality conductive plastic type. Bosch, for example. No need to buy expensive snake oil ones.
Examine the cap and rotor arm for damage and tracking. And note many replacements are pretty poor quality. Same applied to the ignition amp, if
it has one.
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
The latter.
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
The latter.
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay >grade just by new ones. ;-)
I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your
pay grade just by new ones. ;-)
yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
resistance.
I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
clearing up when you spray.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth >>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out >>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>> could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
The latter.
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay >> grade just by new ones. ;-)
yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
resistance.
I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
clearing up when you spray.
My car was left at Heysham docks for a long weekend when I went to the
Manx GP with a friend. Got back to it and it wouldn't start, everything
under the bonnet was damp. Towed it out off the docks using the van. Eventually it started firing on one or 2. Popped the bonnet and my mate sprayed the sparks with WD40. Though the gap at the back of the bonnet I
saw the look of surprise his face as the can of WD40 turned into a
veritable flame thrower. The flame was about 6ft long and lit up the
night really well.
On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
  Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:The latter.
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth >>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out >>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was >>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run
properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues
with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. >>>>>> But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my >>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>>> could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor? >>>
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for >>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside
your pay
grade just by new ones. ;-)
yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
resistance.
I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
clearing up when you spray.
I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.
The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you hear
the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug or
something more serious.
If you can't decipher which cylinder it is then I would pursue the mixture/carburation route.
On 11/06/2021 14:13, Fredxx wrote:
On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
  Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as
smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it >>>>>>> out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was >>>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run
properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues >>>>>>> with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the
plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my >>>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>>>> could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and
distributor?
The latter.
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for >>>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying >>>>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside
your pay
grade just by new ones. ;-)
yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
resistance.
I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
clearing up when you spray.
I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.
The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you
hear the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug
or something more serious.
If you can't decipher which cylinder it is then I would pursue the
mixture/carburation route.
Salt water is not a good idea. Nor is WD40 or any other can filled with propane if there is any sign of external sparks.
My car was left at Heysham docks for a long weekend when I went to the
Manx GP with a friend. Got back to it and it wouldn't start, everything
under the bonnet was damp. Towed it out off the docks using the van. Eventually it started firing on one or 2. Popped the bonnet and my mate sprayed the sparks with WD40. Though the gap at the back of the bonnet I
saw the look of surprise his face as the can of WD40 turned into a
veritable flame thrower. The flame was about 6ft long and lit up the
night really well.
In article <mk66cgtto94vq5vr0tf103bl63at7jbmsf@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your
pay grade just by new ones. ;-)
yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
You do that by a careful visual examination. Any tracking will show. And
you also need to check the connections between the leads and cap etc for >corrosion.
And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
resistance.
Because not all makes are the same. Somewhere about 5000 ohms per foot. >Total, including king lead and carbon brush of the order of 30k. But the
idea is to find the faulty one or ones. Which will read very much higher
per foot than the rest.
I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
clearing up when you spray.
If you want to invent and test a new method, carry on. Let us know how it >succeeds.
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
The latter.
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
In article <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.
A few points.
Older plug leads (carbon string) can fail. Examine them carefully for
signs of cracking. Measure their resistance (they are so much per foot, so will vary by length) But a faulty one will be very much higher per foot. Don't forget to check the king lead too.
While the leads are off, look for signs of corrosion where they plug in.
If replacing, get a decent quality conductive plastic type. Bosch, for example. No need to buy expensive snake oil ones.
Examine the cap and rotor arm for damage and tracking. And note many replacements are pretty poor quality. Same applied to the ignition amp, if
it has one.
The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
WD40 in there is impossible.
In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
WD40 in there is impossible.
I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.
I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic >spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a >better spark.
I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.
The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you hear
the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug or
something more serious.
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately >>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded >>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
WD40 in there is impossible.
I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking. >>>
I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking, >>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a >>> better spark.
I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.
The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of converting to this.
Indeed, yes. Another brainwave I've come up with is to record the
sound from the exhaust. The problem with V8 engines is that it's
possible to have them running on only 7 cylinders without knowing it.
So I thought about setting up a laptop running Audacity (or whatever
other you please sound recording app) next to each of the exhausts in
turn (2 in total in my case) and then view the graphical results
expanded in the timeline so all the pulses are visible. In this way
any regular or irregular loss of a cylinder would be easy to spot and hopefully trace to the cylinder responsible. The addition of a piece
of tracing paper taped as a flap over the exhaust outlet would perhaps improve the sound level and crispen-up the pulses.
Having said that, I do have a habit of coming up with overly
complicated solutions with a less than stellar success rate. But hell,
I'm not short of imagination!
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
WD40 in there is impossible.
I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.
I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a
better spark.
I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.
On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately >>>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded >>>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
WD40 in there is impossible.
I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking. >>>>
I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking, >>>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep >>>> them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic >>>> spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a >>>> better spark.
I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.
The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the
distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of >> converting to this.
On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
plug too.
Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons. >>>>>> However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately >>>>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded >>>>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of >>>>>> WD40 in there is impossible.
I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking. >>>>>
I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking, >>>>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep >>>>> them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic >>>>> spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a >>>>> better spark.
I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under >>>> the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would >>>> imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.
The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the
distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of >>> converting to this.
On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
plug too.
Yaris packs seem to be very popular for conversions. £100 for 8 (or >thereabouts). Of course you’re gonna need other sensors and engine >management systems as well.
In article <uvs9cglmcppktpcs62qmtm4taqgkcv0d8n@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Indeed, yes. Another brainwave I've come up with is to record the
sound from the exhaust. The problem with V8 engines is that it's
possible to have them running on only 7 cylinders without knowing it.
A standard 90 degree V-8 has a burble due to irregular firing intervals.
But with a cylinder down, it sounds very different.
So I thought about setting up a laptop running Audacity (or whatever
other you please sound recording app) next to each of the exhausts in
turn (2 in total in my case) and then view the graphical results
expanded in the timeline so all the pulses are visible. In this way
any regular or irregular loss of a cylinder would be easy to spot and
hopefully trace to the cylinder responsible. The addition of a piece
of tracing paper taped as a flap over the exhaust outlet would perhaps
improve the sound level and crispen-up the pulses.
Having said that, I do have a habit of coming up with overly
complicated solutions with a less than stellar success rate. But hell,
I'm not short of imagination!
A well designed twin pipe system will have a balance pipe between them. To even out the extraction effect. But even without, all you've done is half
the choices.
A decent rev counter will show which cylinder is poor by unplugging each
plug in turn, and noting the engine speed. But you should be able to hear this anyway.
On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:The latter.
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth >>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out >>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was >>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my >>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>>> could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor? >>>
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for >>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay >>> grade just by new ones. ;-)
yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
resistance.
I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
clearing up when you spray.
I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.
The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves.
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:13:01 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk>
wrote:
On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:The latter.
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth >>>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out >>>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was >>>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>>>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>>>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>>>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my >>>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>>>> could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor? >>>>
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for >>>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying >>>>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay >>>> grade just by new ones. ;-)
yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
resistance.
I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
clearing up when you spray.
I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.
The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves.
Or no gloves at all. Then if you cop a belt you'll know the
insulation's duff on that lead/cap.
I have known someone have a faulty ignition lead on his Rover V8 and not
know about it for months. He was an artist whose job was to airbrush celebrity photos.
On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
<dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:
In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>, Dave
Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but
unfortunately I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run
through grounded metal sheaths for most of their routing and access
to get a can of WD40 in there is impossible.
I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the
trunking.
I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal
trunking, but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal
way is to keep them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by
the use of plastic spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has
been upgraded to produce a better spark.
I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat
under the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the
entry and exit points which over time could lead to insulation
breakdown I would imagine - and right up against grounded metal to
boot.
The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I‘d be researching the
cost of converting to this.
On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
plug too.
I'm wondering if the leads being in trunking makes them very difficult to
do a visual check on. Making them all the more likely to be the source of
the problem, if difficult to change. ;-)
On 10/06/2021 22:29, Dave Johnson wrote:
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:The latter.
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
I can remember cars of a certain age having carbon(??) core HT
suppression leads and after a few years caused all sorts of starting
problems in damp or cold weather. The starting problems were cured with
a simple change to new copper core leads.
On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
<theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
The latter.
I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
ideas?
I can remember cars of a certain age having carbon(??) core HT
suppression leads and after a few years caused all sorts of starting
problems in damp or cold weather. The starting problems were cured with
a simple change to new copper core leads.
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.
On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.
I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in this thread.
AT
On 24/07/2021 07:41, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:I presume that no-one has fiddled with the ignition wiring recently?
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.
I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in
this thread.
AT
About 30 years I had a car which was factory fitted with a 9v coil, fed through a ballast resistor. When the starter motor was operated, the
resistor was by-passed to give the ignition a bit more oomph.
I had some work done by a garage who reconnected the wires in such a way
that the resistor was always out of circuit. With the full 12+ volts
going to the coil all the time, the engine misfired profusely - and
wrote off the coil *and* the points in short order.
That couldn't be the OP's problem could it?
On 24/07/2021 07:41, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:I presume that no-one has fiddled with the ignition wiring recently?
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.
I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in
this thread.
AT
About 30 years I had a car which was factory fitted with a 9v coil, fed through a ballast resistor. When the starter motor was operated, the
resistor was by-passed to give the ignition a bit more oomph.
I had some work done by a garage who reconnected the wires in such a way
that the resistor was always out of circuit. With the full 12+ volts
going to the coil all the time, the engine misfired profusely - and
wrote off the coil *and* the points in short order.
That couldn't be the OP's problem could it?
On 24/07/2021 20:03, Roger Mills wrote:
On 24/07/2021 07:41, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:I presume that no-one has fiddled with the ignition wiring recently?
Hi,
I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
could be).
cheers,
Dave,
Dagenham UK.
I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in
this thread.
AT
About 30 years I had a car which was factory fitted with a 9v coil, fed through a ballast resistor. When the starter motor was operated, the resistor was by-passed to give the ignition a bit more oomph.
I had some work done by a garage who reconnected the wires in such a way that the resistor was always out of circuit. With the full 12+ volts
going to the coil all the time, the engine misfired profusely - and
wrote off the coil *and* the points in short order.
That couldn't be the OP's problem could it?
In my youth you sometimes found 6 volt coils with a ballast. But there
were (just about) 6 volt cars still around in those days, and I never
owned a 12 volt motorcycle.
Think most recent ones are 9v. On the principle that if the battery volts dropped below 9, it is probably too clapped to turn the starter.
On 27/07/2021 00:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
Think most recent ones are 9v. On the principle that if the battery volts dropped below 9, it is probably too clapped to turn the starter.
It's more that the internal resistance of the battery when the starter
is pulling a few hundered amps from the coil to around 9V. V8 landrovers
had such a dropper but I though 6V coils.
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