• Classic ignition problems

    From Dave Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 9 16:30:42 2021
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Theo@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Wed Jun 9 18:37:22 2021
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

    If it's misfiring on one cylinder that suggests the plug/coil on that
    cylinder. If it has a classic distributor then suggests that or the HT
    leads.

    Or anything perhaps related to moisture in the air intake?

    Theo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Thu Jun 10 12:13:59 2021
    In article <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.

    A few points.

    Older plug leads (carbon string) can fail. Examine them carefully for
    signs of cracking. Measure their resistance (they are so much per foot, so
    will vary by length) But a faulty one will be very much higher per foot.
    Don't forget to check the king lead too.

    While the leads are off, look for signs of corrosion where they plug in.

    If replacing, get a decent quality conductive plastic type. Bosch, for
    example. No need to buy expensive snake oil ones.

    Examine the cap and rotor arm for damage and tracking. And note many replacements are pretty poor quality. Same applied to the ignition amp, if
    it has one.

    --
    *Always remember you're unique, just like everyone else.

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 10 15:05:12 2021
    On 10/06/2021 12:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
    In article <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.

    A few points.

    Older plug leads (carbon string) can fail. Examine them carefully for
    signs of cracking. Measure their resistance (they are so much per foot, so will vary by length) But a faulty one will be very much higher per foot. Don't forget to check the king lead too.

    While the leads are off, look for signs of corrosion where they plug in.

    If replacing, get a decent quality conductive plastic type. Bosch, for example. No need to buy expensive snake oil ones.

    Examine the cap and rotor arm for damage and tracking. And note many replacements are pretty poor quality. Same applied to the ignition amp, if
    it has one.

    In the 'good ole days' I would typically pull leads off spark plugs to
    find the offending cylinder.

    If random misfiring I would suspect mixture rather than ignition.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Johnson@21:1/5 to theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk on Thu Jun 10 22:29:48 2021
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
    any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Fri Jun 11 00:58:47 2021
    In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
    any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?

    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay grade just by new ones. ;-)

    --
    *I finally got my head together, now my body is falling apart.

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Johnson@21:1/5 to dave@davenoise.co.uk on Fri Jun 11 09:14:32 2021
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
    any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?

    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay >grade just by new ones. ;-)

    yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
    And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
    resistance.
    I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
    with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
    use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
    misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
    clearing up when you spray.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Fri Jun 11 10:35:50 2021
    In article <mk66cgtto94vq5vr0tf103bl63at7jbmsf@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your
    pay grade just by new ones. ;-)

    yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.

    You do that by a careful visual examination. Any tracking will show. And
    you also need to check the connections between the leads and cap etc for corrosion.

    And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
    resistance.

    Because not all makes are the same. Somewhere about 5000 ohms per foot.
    Total, including king lead and carbon brush of the order of 30k. But the
    idea is to find the faulty one or ones. Which will read very much higher
    per foot than the rest.

    I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
    with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
    use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
    misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
    clearing up when you spray.

    If you want to invent and test a new method, carry on. Let us know how it succeeds.

    --
    *Give me ambiguity or give me something else.

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Fri Jun 11 14:13:01 2021
    On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth >>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out >>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>> could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
    any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?

    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay >> grade just by new ones. ;-)

    yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
    And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
    resistance.
    I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
    with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
    use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
    misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
    clearing up when you spray.

    I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
    idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.

    The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
    remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you hear
    the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug or
    something more serious.

    If you can't decipher which cylinder it is then I would pursue the mixture/carburation route.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to Peter Hill on Fri Jun 11 15:54:43 2021
    In article <s9vrpq$1up9$1@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Peter Hill <skyshac@yahoo.com> wrote:
    My car was left at Heysham docks for a long weekend when I went to the
    Manx GP with a friend. Got back to it and it wouldn't start, everything
    under the bonnet was damp. Towed it out off the docks using the van. Eventually it started firing on one or 2. Popped the bonnet and my mate sprayed the sparks with WD40. Though the gap at the back of the bonnet I
    saw the look of surprise his face as the can of WD40 turned into a
    veritable flame thrower. The flame was about 6ft long and lit up the
    night really well.

    Friend was carrying out a compression check on an early injection engine.
    Which runs the fuel pump with the starter motor. Dizzy ignition.
    With all the plugs out, a spark occurred somewhere and ignited the mixture being pumped out of the spark plug holes. He's in the US, and it was 'his' mechanic carrying out the test.

    --
    * I like you. You remind me of when I was young and stupid

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Hill@21:1/5 to Fredxx on Fri Jun 11 15:26:04 2021
    On 11/06/2021 14:13, Fredxx wrote:
    On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
       Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth >>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out >>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was >>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run
    properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues
    with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. >>>>>> But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya  permanent one (assuming my >>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>>> could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor? >>>
    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for >>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?

    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside
    your pay
    grade just by new ones. ;-)

    yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
    And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
    resistance.
    I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
    with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
    use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
    misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
    clearing up when you spray.

    I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
    idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.

    The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
    remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you hear
    the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug or
    something more serious.

    If you can't decipher which cylinder it is then I would pursue the mixture/carburation route.


    Salt water is not a good idea. Nor is WD40 or any other can filled with
    propane if there is any sign of external sparks.

    My car was left at Heysham docks for a long weekend when I went to the
    Manx GP with a friend. Got back to it and it wouldn't start, everything
    under the bonnet was damp. Towed it out off the docks using the van.
    Eventually it started firing on one or 2. Popped the bonnet and my mate
    sprayed the sparks with WD40. Though the gap at the back of the bonnet I
    saw the look of surprise his face as the can of WD40 turned into a
    veritable flame thrower. The flame was about 6ft long and lit up the
    night really well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to Peter Hill on Fri Jun 11 15:51:44 2021
    On 11/06/2021 15:26, Peter Hill wrote:
    On 11/06/2021 14:13, Fredxx wrote:
    On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
       Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as
    smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it >>>>>>> out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was >>>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run
    properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues >>>>>>> with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the
    plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya  permanent one (assuming my >>>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>>>> could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and
    distributor?

    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for >>>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying >>>>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?

    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside
    your pay
    grade just by new ones. ;-)

    yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
    And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
    resistance.
    I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
    with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
    use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
    misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
    clearing up when you spray.

    I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
    idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.

    The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
    remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you
    hear the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug
    or something more serious.

    If you can't decipher which cylinder it is then I would pursue the
    mixture/carburation route.


    Salt water is not a good idea. Nor is WD40 or any other can filled with propane if there is any sign of external sparks.

    My car was left at Heysham docks for a long weekend when I went to the
    Manx GP with a friend. Got back to it and it wouldn't start, everything
    under the bonnet was damp. Towed it out off the docks using the van. Eventually it started firing on one or 2. Popped the bonnet and my mate sprayed the sparks with WD40. Though the gap at the back of the bonnet I
    saw the look of surprise his face as the can of WD40 turned into a
    veritable flame thrower. The flame was about 6ft long and lit up the
    night really well.

    A good lesson for all.

    I recall when cans were filled with CFCs, you didn't have the problem of flammability.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Johnson@21:1/5 to dave@davenoise.co.uk on Fri Jun 11 22:12:27 2021
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 10:35:50 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <mk66cgtto94vq5vr0tf103bl63at7jbmsf@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your
    pay grade just by new ones. ;-)

    yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.

    You do that by a careful visual examination. Any tracking will show. And
    you also need to check the connections between the leads and cap etc for >corrosion.

    And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
    resistance.

    Because not all makes are the same. Somewhere about 5000 ohms per foot. >Total, including king lead and carbon brush of the order of 30k. But the
    idea is to find the faulty one or ones. Which will read very much higher
    per foot than the rest.

    That's the bit I needed to know; many thanks.


    I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
    with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
    use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
    misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
    clearing up when you spray.

    If you want to invent and test a new method, carry on. Let us know how it >succeeds.

    The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
    However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
    variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
    I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
    metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
    WD40 in there is impossible.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From newshound@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Fri Jun 11 23:32:29 2021
    On 10/06/2021 22:29, Dave Johnson wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
    any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?


    I've certainly done the "lightning" check successfully in the dim and
    distant past on British 4 cylinder cars. I think salt water would be
    asking for trouble, but WD40 makes more sense. You could also often
    detect leakage by touching a lead or plug cap.

    The classic way to find which cylinder was not firing (e.g. because of a
    fouled plug) was to remove the plug caps one at a time and see which one
    did *not* cause the tickover to collapse. Usually best to do this by
    unclipping the plug caps and letting them rest on top of the plugs.

    Of course if you go right back to the days *before* plug caps, where
    each plug had an exposed screw terminal, you could short these out one
    at a time with a screwdriver resting on the block, or with an "earthed" screwdriver.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From newshound@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 11 23:35:08 2021
    On 10/06/2021 12:13, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
    In article <rdn1cg5othgvtsln48bjsjr72u2docaq2k@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.

    A few points.

    Older plug leads (carbon string) can fail. Examine them carefully for
    signs of cracking. Measure their resistance (they are so much per foot, so will vary by length) But a faulty one will be very much higher per foot. Don't forget to check the king lead too.

    While the leads are off, look for signs of corrosion where they plug in.

    If replacing, get a decent quality conductive plastic type. Bosch, for example. No need to buy expensive snake oil ones.

    Examine the cap and rotor arm for damage and tracking. And note many replacements are pretty poor quality. Same applied to the ignition amp, if
    it has one.

    +1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Sat Jun 12 12:06:58 2021
    In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
    However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
    variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
    I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
    metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
    WD40 in there is impossible.

    I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.

    I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
    but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
    them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
    spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a better spark.

    --
    *My luck is so bad that if I bought a cemetery, people would stop dying.

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Johnson@21:1/5 to dave@davenoise.co.uk on Sat Jun 12 18:41:10 2021
    On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
    However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
    variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
    I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
    metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
    WD40 in there is impossible.

    I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.

    I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
    but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
    them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic >spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a >better spark.

    I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
    the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
    exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
    imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 12 19:00:09 2021
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:13:01 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk>
    wrote:

    I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
    idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.

    That was NOT my idea, though! I came up with the WD40 variant (which
    I"ve since binned as a result of the flamethrower post).


    The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
    remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves. If you hear
    the 'tick' from the spark jumping the gap you know it's the plug or
    something more serious.

    Indeed, yes. Another brainwave I've come up with is to record the
    sound from the exhaust. The problem with V8 engines is that it's
    possible to have them running on only 7 cylinders without knowing it.
    So I thought about setting up a laptop running Audacity (or whatever
    other you please sound recording app) next to each of the exhausts in
    turn (2 in total in my case) and then view the graphical results
    expanded in the timeline so all the pulses are visible. In this way
    any regular or irregular loss of a cylinder would be easy to spot and
    hopefully trace to the cylinder responsible. The addition of a piece
    of tracing paper taped as a flap over the exhaust outlet would perhaps
    improve the sound level and crispen-up the pulses.
    Having said that, I do have a habit of coming up with overly
    complicated solutions with a less than stellar success rate. But hell,
    I'm not short of imagination!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 12 19:27:10 2021
    On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
    However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
    variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately >>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded >>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
    WD40 in there is impossible.

    I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking. >>>
    I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking, >>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
    them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
    spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a >>> better spark.

    I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
    the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
    exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
    imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.


    The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of converting to this.

    On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
    plug too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Sat Jun 12 19:40:01 2021
    In article <uvs9cglmcppktpcs62qmtm4taqgkcv0d8n@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Indeed, yes. Another brainwave I've come up with is to record the
    sound from the exhaust. The problem with V8 engines is that it's
    possible to have them running on only 7 cylinders without knowing it.

    A standard 90 degree V-8 has a burble due to irregular firing intervals.
    But with a cylinder down, it sounds very different.

    So I thought about setting up a laptop running Audacity (or whatever
    other you please sound recording app) next to each of the exhausts in
    turn (2 in total in my case) and then view the graphical results
    expanded in the timeline so all the pulses are visible. In this way
    any regular or irregular loss of a cylinder would be easy to spot and hopefully trace to the cylinder responsible. The addition of a piece
    of tracing paper taped as a flap over the exhaust outlet would perhaps improve the sound level and crispen-up the pulses.
    Having said that, I do have a habit of coming up with overly
    complicated solutions with a less than stellar success rate. But hell,
    I'm not short of imagination!

    A well designed twin pipe system will have a balance pipe between them. To
    even out the extraction effect. But even without, all you've done is half
    the choices.

    A decent rev counter will show which cylinder is poor by unplugging each
    plug in turn, and noting the engine speed. But you should be able to hear
    this anyway.

    --
    *He's not dead - he's electroencephalographically challenged

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim+@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Sat Jun 12 18:19:46 2021
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
    However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
    variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately
    I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded
    metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
    WD40 in there is impossible.

    I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking.

    I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking,
    but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep
    them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic
    spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a
    better spark.

    I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
    the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
    exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.


    The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of converting to this.

    Tim

    --
    Please don't feed the trolls

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tim+@21:1/5 to Fredxx on Sat Jun 12 19:09:15 2021
    Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
    On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
    However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
    variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately >>>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded >>>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of
    WD40 in there is impossible.

    I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking. >>>>
    I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking, >>>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep >>>> them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic >>>> spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a >>>> better spark.

    I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under
    the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
    exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would
    imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.


    The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the
    distributor and HT leads. If it was my car I’d be researching the cost of >> converting to this.

    On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
    plug too.


    Yaris packs seem to be very popular for conversions. £100 for 8 (or thereabouts). Of course you’re gonna need other sensors and engine management systems as well.

    Tim

    --
    Please don't feed the trolls

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to tim.downie@gmail.com on Sat Jun 12 21:04:08 2021
    On 12 Jun 2021 19:09:15 GMT, Tim+ <tim.downie@gmail.com> wrote:

    Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
    On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons. >>>>>> However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
    variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but unfortunately >>>>>> I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run through grounded >>>>>> metal sheaths for most of their routing and access to get a can of >>>>>> WD40 in there is impossible.

    I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the trunking. >>>>>
    I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal trunking, >>>>> but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal way is to keep >>>>> them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by the use of plastic >>>>> spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has been upgraded to produce a >>>>> better spark.

    I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat under >>>> the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the entry and
    exit points which over time could lead to insulation breakdown I would >>>> imagine - and right up against grounded metal to boot.


    The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the
    distributor and HT leads. If it was my car Id be researching the cost of >>> converting to this.

    On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
    plug too.


    Yaris packs seem to be very popular for conversions. 100 for 8 (or >thereabouts). Of course youre gonna need other sensors and engine >management systems as well.

    Those plug-top coils don't have a very long service life, though. They
    tend to fail far more frequently than the single, distantly-placed
    coils. The cost of that could really add up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 12 20:51:07 2021
    On 12/06/2021 19:40, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
    In article <uvs9cglmcppktpcs62qmtm4taqgkcv0d8n@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Indeed, yes. Another brainwave I've come up with is to record the
    sound from the exhaust. The problem with V8 engines is that it's
    possible to have them running on only 7 cylinders without knowing it.

    A standard 90 degree V-8 has a burble due to irregular firing intervals.
    But with a cylinder down, it sounds very different.

    So I thought about setting up a laptop running Audacity (or whatever
    other you please sound recording app) next to each of the exhausts in
    turn (2 in total in my case) and then view the graphical results
    expanded in the timeline so all the pulses are visible. In this way
    any regular or irregular loss of a cylinder would be easy to spot and
    hopefully trace to the cylinder responsible. The addition of a piece
    of tracing paper taped as a flap over the exhaust outlet would perhaps
    improve the sound level and crispen-up the pulses.
    Having said that, I do have a habit of coming up with overly
    complicated solutions with a less than stellar success rate. But hell,
    I'm not short of imagination!

    A well designed twin pipe system will have a balance pipe between them. To even out the extraction effect. But even without, all you've done is half
    the choices.

    A decent rev counter will show which cylinder is poor by unplugging each
    plug in turn, and noting the engine speed. But you should be able to hear this anyway.

    Funny, those were my precise thoughts too. An eye on the rev counter
    should be sufficient to see the change.

    I have known someone have a faulty ignition lead on his Rover V8 and not
    know about it for months. He was an artist whose job was to airbrush
    celebrity photos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 12 21:16:17 2021
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:13:01 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk>
    wrote:

    On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth >>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out >>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was >>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my >>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>>> could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor? >>>
    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for >>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?

    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay >>> grade just by new ones. ;-)

    yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
    And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
    resistance.
    I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
    with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
    use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
    misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
    clearing up when you spray.

    I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
    idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.

    The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
    remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves.

    Or no gloves at all. Then if you cop a belt you'll know the
    insulation's duff on that lead/cap.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sat Jun 12 21:47:31 2021
    On 12/06/2021 21:16, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 14:13:01 +0100, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk>
    wrote:

    On 11/06/2021 09:14, Dave Johnson wrote:
    On Fri, 11 Jun 2021 00:58:47 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <pr05cg56kof3510t207jqut01uongu00dn@4ax.com>,
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth >>>>>>> as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out >>>>>>> on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was >>>>>>> running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>>>>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>>>>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>>>>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my >>>>>>> guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it >>>>>>> could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor? >>>>
    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for >>>>> any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying >>>>> salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?

    I gave you the method of checking them. If using a DVM is outside your pay >>>> grade just by new ones. ;-)

    yes, but that's not going to show up any insulation breakdown, though.
    And you didn't say what values I should expect when I measure for
    resistance.
    I guess the reverse of the spraying salt water idea would be spraying
    with WD40. Use salt water if the air is dry and warm when you test;
    use WD40 when it's cold and damp. In the first instance, listen for
    misfiring when you spray and in the second, listen for any misfiring
    clearing up when you spray.

    I think you get the impression DR is not impressed with your idea. The
    idea of spraying salt water over high voltage electrics sound perverse.

    The stock way to check for a faulty plug or HT lead is to manually
    remove them one at a time. Ideally using decent dry gloves.

    Or no gloves at all. Then if you cop a belt you'll know the
    insulation's duff on that lead/cap.

    Are you a masochist? :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to Fredxx on Sun Jun 13 00:29:24 2021
    In article <sa337b$7vt$1@dont-email.me>,
    Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk> wrote:
    I have known someone have a faulty ignition lead on his Rover V8 and not
    know about it for months. He was an artist whose job was to airbrush celebrity photos.

    Yup. They don't tend to run rough like a four cylinder does when you lose
    a cylinder. Just down on power.

    --
    *I'm already visualizing the duct tape over your mouth

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 13 00:27:20 2021
    In article <sa2u9t$72f$2@dont-email.me>, Fredxx <fredxx@nospam.co.uk>
    wrote:
    On 12/06/2021 19:19, Tim+ wrote:
    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    On Sat, 12 Jun 2021 12:06:58 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)"
    <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    In article <g4k7cg1argsh7hfjd8ei3i25sk6ft2er64@4ax.com>, Dave
    Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    The salt water spray just seems kind of wrong for obvious reasons.
    However, it seems to be regularly promoted on US websites. My
    variation was intended to be a kinder version of it, but
    unfortunately I can't use it on my left 'ooker cos the HT leads run
    through grounded metal sheaths for most of their routing and access
    to get a can of WD40 in there is impossible.

    I'd be looking for problems where the leads enter and exit the
    trunking.

    I know it was once common to run the HT leads in earthed metal
    trunking, but to me, this is simply asking for trouble. The normal
    way is to keep them a reasonable distance clear of any grounds, by
    the use of plastic spacers, etc. Even more so if the ignition has
    been upgraded to produce a better spark.

    I fully agree. It does seem a daft idea just to keep things neat
    under the bonnet and like you say, there will be stresses at the
    entry and exit points which over time could lead to insulation
    breakdown I would imagine - and right up against grounded metal to
    boot.


    The modern way seem to be to move to coil packs and do away with the distributor and HT leads. If it was my car Id be researching the
    cost of converting to this.

    On a V8 that can get expensive! There might be limited room above the
    plug too.

    With older pushrod engines (like my Rover V8) you can't really use Coil on
    Plug because of the heat from the exhaust manifold. But there are
    individual smart coils where you use a short plug lead to them, so can be situated anywhere convenient.

    But I'm using wasted spark. One coil per pair of cylinders, and only needs
    a crank trigger. Ford EDIS was an early type and still works well as it is virtually bomb proof. It is pretty well maintenance free. But does need an
    ECU to control the advance curve.

    --
    *I like cats, too. Let's exchange recipes.

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 13 00:31:34 2021
    I'm wondering if the leads being in trunking makes them very difficult to
    do a visual check on. Making them all the more likely to be the source of
    the problem, if difficult to change. ;-)

    --
    *If one synchronized swimmer drowns, do the rest have to drown too?

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to dave@davenoise.co.uk on Sun Jun 13 10:12:51 2021
    On Sun, 13 Jun 2021 00:31:34 +0100, "Dave Plowman (News)" <dave@davenoise.co.uk> wrote:

    I'm wondering if the leads being in trunking makes them very difficult to
    do a visual check on. Making them all the more likely to be the source of
    the problem, if difficult to change. ;-)

    Asking for trouble on multiple levels. A better idea if neatness was a consideration was to use those rubber spreaders, then it's simple to
    inspect the leads and remove them for easier testing if suspect.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to junk@admac.myzen.co.uk on Sun Jun 13 14:53:27 2021
    In message <iimf3tF9fdfU1@mid.individual.net>, alan_m
    <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> writes
    On 10/06/2021 22:29, Dave Johnson wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?
    The latter.
    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
    any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?


    I can remember cars of a certain age having carbon(??) core HT
    suppression leads and after a few years caused all sorts of starting
    problems in damp or cold weather. The starting problems were cured with
    a simple change to new copper core leads.

    IIRC, carbon impregnated HT leads were introduced because they were
    better at suppressing radio interference than resistive plug connectors
    (or using individual series resistors).

    Having a high-resistance (or even open-circuit) HT lead can have
    knock-on effects. I recall that in one of my cars the shortest lead went
    almost O/C, with the subsequent misfiring problems. As the coil could
    not deliver a spark across the plug gap, the spark chose instead to
    track between the coil HT terminal and the 'LT' spade terminal. This
    carbonised the insulating material, and I still had tracking problems
    after I had replaced the faulty lead. As a 'temporary' fix (until I got
    a new coil) I sawed a chunk out of the insulation, and filled it with.
    The fix became permanent, and I never used the new coil.
    --
    Ian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From alan_m@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Sun Jun 13 14:22:04 2021
    On 10/06/2021 22:29, Dave Johnson wrote:
    On 09 Jun 2021 18:37:22 +0100 (BST), Theo
    <theom+news@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:

    Dave Johnson <davejonno@pcl.co.uk> wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).

    Does it have individual coil packs, or a classic coil and distributor?

    The latter.

    I recall from somewhere it's possible to check the HT leads by
    watching the running engine in the dark with the hood up and check for
    any visible sparks around the leads. Someone else suggested spraying
    salt water over the leads while it's running AFTER having run long
    enough to idle smoothly. Not sure what you lot think about those
    ideas?


    I can remember cars of a certain age having carbon(??) core HT
    suppression leads and after a few years caused all sorts of starting
    problems in damp or cold weather. The starting problems were cured with
    a simple change to new copper core leads.

    --
    mailto : news {at} admac {dot} myzen {dot} co {dot} uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to junk@admac.myzen.co.uk on Sun Jun 13 17:17:02 2021
    In article <iimf3tF9fdfU1@mid.individual.net>,
    alan_m <junk@admac.myzen.co.uk> wrote:
    I can remember cars of a certain age having carbon(??) core HT
    suppression leads and after a few years caused all sorts of starting
    problems in damp or cold weather. The starting problems were cured with
    a simple change to new copper core leads.

    Replacing carbon string leads with copper is an absolute no-no. The
    ignition system is designed to work with a total resistance between coil
    and plug of about 30,000 ohms. And that's before you blot out surrounding
    TV etc reception with the interference it would generate. And on a modern
    car, that interference can also zap the engine management.

    Suppressor leads using conductive plastic rather than carbon string have
    been around for many a year now, and have a very long life.

    --
    *Why were the Indians here first? They had reservations.*

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Abandoned_Trolley@21:1/5 to Dave Johnson on Sat Jul 24 07:41:55 2021
    On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.


    I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
    its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in this
    thread.

    AT

    --
    random signature text inserted here

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Roger Mills@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 24 20:03:04 2021
    On 24/07/2021 07:41, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
    On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya  permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.


    I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
    its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in this thread.

    AT

    I presume that no-one has fiddled with the ignition wiring recently?
    About 30 years I had a car which was factory fitted with a 9v coil, fed
    through a ballast resistor. When the starter motor was operated, the
    resistor was by-passed to give the ignition a bit more oomph.

    I had some work done by a garage who reconnected the wires in such a way
    that the resistor was always out of circuit. With the full 12+ volts
    going to the coil all the time, the engine misfired profusely - and
    wrote off the coil *and* the points in short order.

    That couldn't be the OP's problem could it?
    --
    Cheers,
    Roger

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From newshound@21:1/5 to Roger Mills on Sun Jul 25 21:46:47 2021
    On 24/07/2021 20:03, Roger Mills wrote:
    On 24/07/2021 07:41, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
    On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya  permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.


    I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
    its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in
    this thread.

    AT

    I presume that no-one has fiddled with the ignition wiring recently?
    About 30 years I had a car which was factory fitted with a 9v coil, fed through a ballast resistor. When the starter motor was operated, the
    resistor was by-passed to give the ignition a bit more oomph.

    I had some work done by a garage who reconnected the wires in such a way
    that the resistor was always out of circuit. With the full 12+ volts
    going to the coil all the time, the engine misfired profusely - and
    wrote off the coil *and* the points in short order.

    That couldn't be the OP's problem could it?

    In my youth you sometimes found 6 volt coils with a ballast. But there
    were (just about) 6 volt cars still around in those days, and I never
    owned a 12 volt motorcycle.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to Roger Mills on Sun Jul 25 22:49:55 2021
    On 24/07/2021 20:03, Roger Mills wrote:
    On 24/07/2021 07:41, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
    On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I
    can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with
    damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But
    what's the proper solution? Preferablya  permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.


    I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
    its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in
    this thread.

    AT

    I presume that no-one has fiddled with the ignition wiring recently?
    About 30 years I had a car which was factory fitted with a 9v coil, fed through a ballast resistor. When the starter motor was operated, the
    resistor was by-passed to give the ignition a bit more oomph.

    Fords used this technique. The spark was marginal when cold and a
    consequence was that the engine died as soon as you let go of the starter.

    I had some work done by a garage who reconnected the wires in such a way
    that the resistor was always out of circuit. With the full 12+ volts
    going to the coil all the time, the engine misfired profusely - and
    wrote off the coil *and* the points in short order.

    That couldn't be the OP's problem could it?

    The OP seems to have abandoned this thread so we'll never know.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to newshound on Tue Jul 27 00:33:08 2021
    In article <ZMidneFQxbcqUGD9nZ2dnUU78SnNnZ2d@brightview.co.uk>,
    newshound <newshound@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote:
    On 24/07/2021 20:03, Roger Mills wrote:
    On 24/07/2021 07:41, Abandoned_Trolley wrote:
    On 09/06/2021 16:30, Dave Johnson wrote:
    Hi,
    I have an American V8 that I bought 2 months ago. It's been as smooth
    as a baby's bum up until today which was the first time I took it out
    on a cool, damp day. It misfired from the very first moment it was
    running and took about 40mins before it cleared up and run properly. I >>> can only think of something from the past where I once had issues with >>> damp in the ign system: distributor cap and HT leads to the plugs. But >>> what's the proper solution? Preferablya permanent one (assuming my
    guess is accurate about the cause but I really cant see what else it
    could be).
    cheers,
    Dave,
    Dagenham UK.


    I am assuming that theres a capacitor inside the distributor, and that
    its been checked, although I can find no mention of it anywhere in
    this thread.

    AT

    I presume that no-one has fiddled with the ignition wiring recently?
    About 30 years I had a car which was factory fitted with a 9v coil, fed through a ballast resistor. When the starter motor was operated, the resistor was by-passed to give the ignition a bit more oomph.

    I had some work done by a garage who reconnected the wires in such a way that the resistor was always out of circuit. With the full 12+ volts
    going to the coil all the time, the engine misfired profusely - and
    wrote off the coil *and* the points in short order.

    That couldn't be the OP's problem could it?

    In my youth you sometimes found 6 volt coils with a ballast. But there
    were (just about) 6 volt cars still around in those days, and I never
    owned a 12 volt motorcycle.

    Think most recent ones are 9v. On the principle that if the battery volts dropped below 9, it is probably too clapped to turn the starter.

    --
    *Hard work pays off in the future. Laziness pays off now *

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AJH@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 28 21:51:13 2021
    On 27/07/2021 00:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
    Think most recent ones are 9v. On the principle that if the battery volts dropped below 9, it is probably too clapped to turn the starter.

    It's more that the internal resistance of the battery when the starter
    is pulling a few hundered amps from the coil to around 9V. V8 landrovers
    had such a dropper but I though 6V coils.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Plowman (News)@21:1/5 to AJH on Fri Jul 30 12:11:00 2021
    In article <imdua1F83d0U1@mid.individual.net>,
    AJH <news@loampitsfarm.co.uk> wrote:
    On 27/07/2021 00:33, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:
    Think most recent ones are 9v. On the principle that if the battery volts dropped below 9, it is probably too clapped to turn the starter.

    It's more that the internal resistance of the battery when the starter
    is pulling a few hundered amps from the coil to around 9V. V8 landrovers
    had such a dropper but I though 6V coils.

    Bit wasteful having to drop the voltage more than needed using a power resistor?

    It could be early cold start systems use a 6v coil because they were a
    standard item. But once common makes sense to use one designed for the job.

    --
    *Can fat people go skinny-dipping?

    Dave Plowman dave@davenoise.co.uk London SW
    To e-mail, change noise into sound.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)