• Legality of operating a portable HF station + antenna from a Council al

    From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to All on Tue Apr 27 14:56:22 2021
    Hi,

    1) Can a fully licensed amateur radio operator, in principle, transmit
    from their allotment provided by the local council? Is the allotment technically public space, private space?

    2) Can the above mentioned raise a makeshift temporary antenna (let's
    say a vertical antenna over a fishing pole or an inverted V) for the
    duration of the operation?

    I dare not ask the Council as they probably have little clue what
    Amateur portable operation is.

    Many thanks in advance.

    --
    Ottavio Caruso

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  • From mm0fmf@21:1/5 to Ottavio Caruso on Tue Apr 27 23:22:42 2021
    On 27/04/2021 14:56, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    Hi,

    1) Can a fully licensed amateur radio operator, in principle, transmit
    from their allotment provided by the local council? Is the allotment technically public space, private space?

    2) Can the above mentioned raise a makeshift temporary antenna (let's
    say a vertical antenna over a fishing pole or an inverted V) for the
    duration of the operation?

    I dare not ask the Council as they probably have little clue what
    Amateur portable operation is.

    Many thanks in advance.


    Yes

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  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 28 08:49:20 2021
    In message <s6a2ri$ibh$1@dont-email.me>, mm0fmf <none@invalid.com>
    writes
    On 27/04/2021 14:56, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    Hi,
    1) Can a fully licensed amateur radio operator, in principle,
    transmit from their allotment provided by the local council? Is the >>allotment technically public space, private space?
    2) Can the above mentioned raise a makeshift temporary antenna
    (let's say a vertical antenna over a fishing pole or an inverted V)
    for the duration of the operation?
    I dare not ask the Council as they probably have little clue what
    Amateur portable operation is.
    Many thanks in advance.


    Yes

    Probably.

    The allotment behind me is owned by the parish council, and until
    recently, I used to wander in and have a look at how things were doing -
    so I guess it was a privately owned public space. However, because of
    vandalism and some theft, they have now improved the fencing and put a
    lock on the gate. Only the plot-holders have access, so I guess it's no
    longer so 'public'.

    The only restriction I know of in the actual amateur licence was (IIRC)
    one about not operating in a public service vehicle (presumably meaning
    a bus or a train), but I'm sure that's long gone. There's certainly no
    general law preventing amateur operation in a public space, but there
    could be antiquated by-laws in certain area about playing radios or
    gramophones (eg in certain royal parks) that could be invoked if a
    malicious jobsworth takes a dislikes to you.

    But as for allotments, if you're a plot-holder, it's unlikely that
    anyone is going to object to a bit of discrete amateur activity (provide
    that such operation doesn't disturb the horticultural tranquility). But
    as you suggest, I'm sure that by far the best course of action is simply
    not to ask for permission.
    --
    Ian

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  • From David Wade@21:1/5 to Ottavio Caruso on Wed Apr 28 09:51:17 2021
    On 27/04/2021 14:56, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
    Hi,

    1) Can a fully licensed amateur radio operator, in principle, transmit
    from their allotment provided by the local council? Is the allotment technically public space, private space?

    2) Can the above mentioned raise a makeshift temporary antenna (let's
    say a vertical antenna over a fishing pole or an inverted V) for the
    duration of the operation?

    I dare not ask the Council as they probably have little clue what
    Amateur portable operation is.

    Many thanks in advance.

    You should have a lease agreement that tells you what you can, and
    cannot do. If it has catch-alls that say no temporary structures then it
    may be "out".

    My wife's allotment is run by a committee and if I erected a temporary
    antenna and one of them didn't like it, a new rule would quickly be
    added to the list to stop me going it.

    I am also not sure how you prevent access with the ICNIRP guidelines as
    in my experience folks just wander onto our plot...

    Dave
    G4UGM

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  • From Brian Howie@21:1/5 to ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com on Wed Apr 28 09:11:30 2021
    In message <s69567$98q$1@dont-email.me>, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> writes
    Hi,

    1) Can a fully licensed amateur radio operator, in principle, transmit
    from their allotment provided by the local council? Is the allotment >technically public space, private space?

    2) Can the above mentioned raise a makeshift temporary antenna (let's
    say a vertical antenna over a fishing pole or an inverted V) for the
    duration of the operation?

    I dare not ask the Council as they probably have little clue what
    Amateur portable operation is.

    Many thanks in advance.

    There was an event a few years ago.

    Https://www.essexham.co.uk/saghota-launches-today.html

    Sheds, allotments and greenhouses on the air. Given then launch date, it
    may have been an April Fools Joke but it seemed to have legs and there
    was a bit of reported activity.

    I doubt if anyone would notice.

    Brian GM4DIJ
    --
    Brian Howie

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  • From Jeff@21:1/5 to All on Wed Apr 28 12:06:37 2021
    I am also not sure how you prevent access with the ICNIRP guidelines as
    in my experience folks just wander onto our plot...

    You don't actually have to prevent access, only stop transmitting if a
    member of the public comes writhing the area where the EMF limits are
    exceeded (if any at ground level).

    Jeff

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  • From Dave Sergeant@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 29 06:46:13 2021
    In article <s6bfjs$fce$1@gioia.aioe.org>, jeff@ukra.com says...

    You don't actually have to prevent access, only stop transmitting if a
    member of the public comes writhing the area where the EMF limits are exceeded (if any at ground level).

    Jeff


    Yes, you have to watch out for those writhing members of the public....

    Will your antenna be confined to just your own allotment or will it
    possibly go over others? In which case there may be an issue if the
    owner notices.

    We had a case many years ago when we put on one of the 160m DF hunt
    stations on what we thought was public land as marked on the OS map but
    the owner appeared just before we were going to leave and told us
    otherwise.

    I also remember working a chap /M many years ago who was heading for the
    Humber Ferry. We decided to break the QSO until he reached the other
    side as we were not sure what he should operate as when he got stuck on
    the sandbank in the middle (a common occurance in those days) Maybe
    'maritime mobile static...

    73 Dave G3YMC

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  • From Ottavio Caruso@21:1/5 to Dave Sergeant on Thu Apr 29 08:39:59 2021
    On 29/04/2021 06:46, Dave Sergeant wrote:
    Will your antenna be confined to just your own allotment or will it
    possibly go over others? In which case there may be an issue if the
    owner notices.

    In my plans, this would be a pop-up antenna (either a vertical over a
    pole or a makeshift dipole or even an end fed) and it would be confined
    to my allotment and then removed after the QS0.

    I have no other place to have a QSO over HF. I tried the local park a
    couple of years ago and somebody shouted at me thinking I was a
    terrorist plotting a bomb. Real story, not making it up.

    --
    Ottavio Caruso

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  • From Jeff@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 30 09:27:38 2021
    we were not sure what he should operate as when he got stuck on
    the sandbank in the middle (a common occurance in those days) Maybe
    'maritime mobile static...

    73 Dave G3YMC


    Back in the day when you had to get a separate Maritime Mobile licence
    it would have been /MA (maritime at anchor), that suffix confused many
    people and was quite rare!

    Jeff

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  • From gareth evans@21:1/5 to Jeff on Fri Apr 30 13:34:06 2021
    On 30/04/2021 09:27, Jeff wrote:
    we were not sure what he should operate as when he got stuck on
    the sandbank in the middle (a common occurance in those days) Maybe
    'maritime mobile static...


    Back in the day when you had to get a separate Maritime Mobile licence
    it would have been /MA (maritime at anchor), that suffix confused many
    people and was quite rare!

    ISTR that /MM applied in seagoing.

    For inland rivers, canals and estuaries, it is /M.

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  • From Anthony R. Gold@21:1/5 to Dave Sergeant on Sat May 1 08:24:03 2021
    On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 06:46:13 +0100, Dave Sergeant <davews2@sky.com> wrote:

    Will your antenna be confined to just your own allotment or will it
    possibly go over others? In which case there may be an issue if the
    owner notices.

    I would never have guessed that allotment tenants could also control the air space above their shed and vegetables.

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  • From Roger Hayter@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 1 08:24:27 2021
    On 1 May 2021 at 08:24:03 BST, ""Anthony R. Gold"" <not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:

    On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 06:46:13 +0100, Dave Sergeant <davews2@sky.com> wrote:

    Will your antenna be confined to just your own allotment or will it
    possibly go over others? In which case there may be an issue if the
    owner notices.

    I would never have guessed that allotment tenants could also control the air space above their shed and vegetables.

    An interesting legal question. But a complaint to the allotment committee or the allotment's landlord is quite likely to succeed, and the latter organisations probably do have the power to forbid aerial structures if they uphold the complaint.

    --
    Roger Hayter

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  • From Jeff@21:1/5 to gareth evans on Sat May 1 11:49:48 2021
    On 30/04/2021 13:34, gareth evans wrote:
    On 30/04/2021 09:27, Jeff wrote:
    we were not sure what he should operate as when he got stuck on
    the sandbank in the middle (a common occurance in those days) Maybe
    'maritime mobile static...


    Back in the day when you had to get a separate Maritime Mobile licence
    it would have been /MA (maritime at anchor), that suffix confused many
    people and was quite rare!

    ISTR that /MM applied in seagoing.

    For inland rivers, canals and estuaries, it is /M.


    In the days where you had to get a separate Maritime Mobile (and Mobile)
    licence the normal licence had the clause:

    "The Station shall not be established or used on the sea, or within any
    dock harbour or estuary, or in any moving vehicle vessel or aircraft."

    The separate MM licence, applicable to a particular named vessel,
    allowed you to operate from that vessel at sea or within any dock
    harbour or estuary, with the suffixes /MM when underway, or /MA when
    berthed, moored or anchored.

    /M was applicable on non-tidal waterways.

    Jeff

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  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to roger@hayter.org on Sat May 1 10:30:13 2021
    In message <if4hhrF684bU1@mid.individual.net>, Roger Hayter
    <roger@hayter.org> writes
    On 1 May 2021 at 08:24:03 BST, ""Anthony R. Gold"" <not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> >wrote:

    On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 06:46:13 +0100, Dave Sergeant <davews2@sky.com> wrote: >>
    Will your antenna be confined to just your own allotment or will it
    possibly go over others? In which case there may be an issue if the
    owner notices.

    I would never have guessed that allotment tenants could also control the air >> space above their shed and vegetables.

    An interesting legal question. But a complaint to the allotment committee or >the allotment's landlord is quite likely to succeed, and the latter >organisations probably do have the power to forbid aerial structures if they >uphold the complaint.

    Regardless of any legalities, unless you know that the local council is
    100% on your side, it would only be good manners to ask the holder of an allotment over which you want to run an aerial it it's OK.
    --
    Ian

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  • From Nobody@21:1/5 to ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com on Wed May 12 17:41:14 2021
    On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 08:39:59 +0100, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 29/04/2021 06:46, Dave Sergeant wrote:
    Will your antenna be confined to just your own allotment or will it
    possibly go over others? In which case there may be an issue if the
    owner notices.

    In my plans, this would be a pop-up antenna (either a vertical over a
    pole or a makeshift dipole or even an end fed) and it would be confined
    to my allotment and then removed after the QS0.

    I have no other place to have a QSO over HF. I tried the local park a
    couple of years ago and somebody shouted at me thinking I was a
    terrorist plotting a bomb. Real story, not making it up.

    Not only amateurs, but even we poor DXers get targeted.

    I was on a Brit-based Fred Olsen cruise up the South Atlantic a few
    years back, using a simple Tecsun PL-380 hand-held rx while lounging
    on open deck near the rail, and listening to Conakry/Guinée on 9650.

    I was approached by a ship's officer, who gently queried my
    activity... and once satisfied it and I were harmless... volunteered
    that someone had complained I was fishing over the rail with the
    extended antenna!

    I kid you not.

    Night-time deck loitering on other cruises has brought surreptitious
    checks... though I appreciate those might have been for suspicion of possible/intended jumping.

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  • From Jim GM4DHJ ...@21:1/5 to Nobody on Fri May 14 09:29:25 2021
    On 13/05/2021 01:41, Nobody wrote:
    On Thu, 29 Apr 2021 08:39:59 +0100, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 29/04/2021 06:46, Dave Sergeant wrote:
    Will your antenna be confined to just your own allotment or will it
    possibly go over others? In which case there may be an issue if the
    owner notices.

    In my plans, this would be a pop-up antenna (either a vertical over a
    pole or a makeshift dipole or even an end fed) and it would be confined
    to my allotment and then removed after the QS0.

    I have no other place to have a QSO over HF. I tried the local park a
    couple of years ago and somebody shouted at me thinking I was a
    terrorist plotting a bomb. Real story, not making it up.

    Not only amateurs, but even we poor DXers get targeted.

    I was on a Brit-based Fred Olsen cruise up the South Atlantic a few
    years back, using a simple Tecsun PL-380 hand-held rx while lounging
    on open deck near the rail, and listening to Conakry/Guinée on 9650.

    I was approached by a ship's officer, who gently queried my
    activity... and once satisfied it and I were harmless... volunteered
    that someone had complained I was fishing over the rail with the
    extended antenna!

    I kid you not.

    Night-time deck loitering on other cruises has brought surreptitious checks... though I appreciate those might have been for suspicion of possible/intended jumping.

    great story I remember in the mid 70's being asked to go up to the
    bridge of the car ferry to Bute after coming on in my mini clubman with
    a G-WHIP multi mobile 71 on the roof......turned out the captain was
    interested in amateur radio and just wanted a chat.....

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