• Trivial - impractical requirement from DVLA on driving licence renewal

    From David@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 26 11:55:44 2024
    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was illegal
    to have two licences.
    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but that
    you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the new
    one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.
    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done (by fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).

    It all seems to be a wasteful and impractical exercise.

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on your driving licence as ID.
    Nor if you intend to hire a car, for example.

    Cheers



    Dave R

    --
    AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Peter Johnson@21:1/5 to David on Fri Apr 26 15:49:23 2024
    On 26 Apr 2024 11:55:44 GMT, David <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote:

    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was illegal
    to have two licences.
    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but that
    you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the new
    one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.
    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done (by >fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).

    I didn't send mine back and I didn't have any complaint from DVLA.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Colin Bignell@21:1/5 to David on Fri Apr 26 16:24:52 2024
    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:
    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was illegal
    to have two licences.
    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but that
    you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    In practice, I requested mine on 22nd April and it arrived today.

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the new
    one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done (by fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).

    It all seems to be a wasteful and impractical exercise.

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on your driving licence as ID.
    Nor if you intend to hire a car, for example.

    I'm not sure that the last time I hired a car in the UK (2-3 years ago)
    they even bothered to look at my licence. They did, however, ask my
    permission to access my data on the DVLA database, which would, of
    course, also tell them that the licence was not invalid due to disqualification.

    --
    Colin Bignell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to David on Fri Apr 26 19:27:06 2024
    On 26-Apr-24 12:55, David wrote:
    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was illegal
    to have two licences.
    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but that
    you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the new
    one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.
    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done (by fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).

    It all seems to be a wasteful and impractical exercise.

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on your driving licence as ID.

    Hmm... Suppose you are waiting for your new licence - after the expiry
    date on the old one.
    Would your expired licence be accepted as valid ID at a polling station?

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 26 19:23:42 2024
    In message <pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com>, at 16:24:52
    on Fri, 26 Apr 2024, Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
    remarked:
    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was illegal
    to have two licences.

    You don't have two until the new one arrives.

    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but that
    you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    In practice, I requested mine on 22nd April and it arrived today.

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the new
    one arrives.

    Indeed.

    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.
    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    They should have a Freepost address for this if it's important to them.
    --
    Roland Perry

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to David on Fri Apr 26 15:26:21 2024
    On 26/04/2024 12:55 pm, David wrote:

    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was illegal
    to have two licences.
    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but that
    you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the new
    one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.
    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done (by fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).

    It all seems to be a wasteful and impractical exercise.

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on your driving licence as ID.
    Nor if you intend to hire a car, for example.

    I renewed mine a few months ago. I still have the older licence (expired
    now, of course), but in two pieces.

    When I remember, I'll shred it through the credit card slot in the
    cross-cur shredder out in the garage.

    I certainly haven't heard any more from DVLC about sending it (or the
    pieces) to them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to Colin Bignell on Fri Apr 26 16:55:41 2024
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine


    bb

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  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to David on Fri Apr 26 13:12:48 2024
    David wrote:

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on your driving licence as ID.
    Nor if you intend to hire a car, for example.

    You can get a code from DVLA to give to hire companies as proof of your
    licence

    <https://www.viewdrivingrecord.service.gov.uk/driving-record/licence-number>

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  • From Smolley@21:1/5 to Colin Bignell on Fri Apr 26 16:54:01 2024
    On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 16:24:52 +0100, Colin Bignell wrote:

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:
    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was
    illegal to have two licences.
    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but
    that you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    In practice, I requested mine on 22nd April and it arrived today.

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the
    new one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done
    (by fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).

    It all seems to be a wasteful and impractical exercise.

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on
    your driving licence as ID.
    Nor if you intend to hire a car, for example.

    I'm not sure that the last time I hired a car in the UK (2-3 years ago)
    they even bothered to look at my licence. They did, however, ask my permission to access my data on the DVLA database, which would, of
    course, also tell them that the licence was not invalid due to disqualification.

    I have not hired a car since it cost 17/6 a day for a Ford Anglia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to David on Fri Apr 26 15:41:26 2024
    "David" <wibble@btinternet.com> wrote in message news:l91j20Fth4vU4@mid.individual.net...

    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was illegal
    to have two licences.

    Not according to this

    quote:

    You must send your old photocard licence to DVLA when you get
    your new licence. You'll be told the address to use when you
    finish the application

    :unquote:

    https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence

    Or this

    quote:

    Remember, you must send your old photocard licence back to us
    once you get your new licence. The address will be provided
    on completion of your application.

    unquote

    https://dvladigital.blog.gov.uk/2022/12/13/how-to-renew-your-driving-licence-online/


    Which I seem to remember was the procedure with the cut-up licence
    last time I renewed mine

    bb

    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but that
    you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the new
    one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.
    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done (by fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).

    It all seems to be a wasteful and impractical exercise.

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on your driving licence as ID.
    Nor if you intend to hire a car, for example.

    Cheers



    Dave R

    --
    AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Colin Bignell@21:1/5 to Smolley on Fri Apr 26 22:03:10 2024
    On 26/04/2024 17:54, Smolley wrote:
    On Fri, 26 Apr 2024 16:24:52 +0100, Colin Bignell wrote:

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:
    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was
    illegal to have two licences.
    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but
    that you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).

    In practice, I requested mine on 22nd April and it arrived today.

    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when the
    new one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done
    (by fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).

    It all seems to be a wasteful and impractical exercise.

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on
    your driving licence as ID.
    Nor if you intend to hire a car, for example.

    I'm not sure that the last time I hired a car in the UK (2-3 years ago)
    they even bothered to look at my licence. They did, however, ask my
    permission to access my data on the DVLA database, which would, of
    course, also tell them that the licence was not invalid due to
    disqualification.

    I have not hired a car since it cost 17/6 a day for a Ford Anglia.


    It was a courtesy car arranged by my insurers after my car was in for
    repair, following an accident where the other driver admitted full responsibility.

    --
    Colin Bignell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Colin Bignell@21:1/5 to billy bookcase on Fri Apr 26 22:03:00 2024
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked 'Please check weight and use correct postage'.

    --
    Colin Bignell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Apr 26 22:36:58 2024
    In message <YlSWN.371$JxS3.138@fx10.ams1>, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com>
    writes
    On 26-Apr-24 12:55, David wrote:
    Just renewed my driving licence on line.
    One requirement was to cut up your licence immediately as it was illegal
    to have two licences.
    Then you are told delivery of the new licence should be 2 weeks, but that
    you can drive legally without a licence (subject to constraints).
    Logically you should cut up your old (still in date) licence when
    the new
    one arrives.
    Especially given the (alleged) unreliability of DVLA in general.
    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.
    I wonder if everyone does this and who checks that this has been done (by
    fitting the cut up bits back together, presumably).
    It all seems to be a wasteful and impractical exercise.
    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying
    on your
    driving licence as ID.

    Hmm... Suppose you are waiting for your new licence - after the expiry
    date on the old one.
    Would your expired licence be accepted as valid ID at a polling station?

    I believe that most election ID documents are still acceptable after
    they have expired. I guess that that an expired document that you really
    should no longer have will also be OK. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/voter-identification-faqs
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to Colin Bignell on Sat Apr 27 08:30:29 2024
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked 'Please check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the address given
    on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a pristine repurposed and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it never came back.

    Whereas I'm assuming that its only necessary to fill in a form if there's
    been a change to the information shown on the licence; as maybe applies to
    the OP ? : a change of address, photo, categories etc.

    Where, as it's an offence to produce a licence containing the wrong information,
    it makes sense that the original licence is immediately cut up and despatched before receipt of the amended one

    In which they probably feel they can make you pay; as you've got
    more to lose if you don't.


    bb

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Colin Bignell@21:1/5 to billy bookcase on Sat Apr 27 11:42:23 2024
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked 'Please check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I renewed mine online*, but the prompt was a letter telling me that it
    was due for renewal (which I already knew) that included a form to fill
    in, the envelope mentioned to return it in and instructions on how to do
    it online instead.

    * Done on 22nd with new licence arriving on 26th.


    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the address given on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a pristine repurposed
    and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it never came back.

    Whereas I'm assuming that its only necessary to fill in a form if there's been a change to the information shown on the licence; as maybe applies to the OP ? : a change of address, photo, categories etc.

    Where, as it's an offence to produce a licence containing the wrong information,
    it makes sense that the original licence is immediately cut up and despatched before receipt of the amended one

    In which they probably feel they can make you pay; as you've got
    more to lose if you don't.


    bb









    --
    Colin Bignell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Max Demian@21:1/5 to Andy Burns on Sat Apr 27 12:13:37 2024
    On 26/04/2024 13:12, Andy Burns wrote:
    David wrote:

    Also not to be undertaken near any polling date if you are relying on
    your
    driving licence as ID.
    Nor if you intend to hire a car, for example.

    You can get a code from DVLA to give to hire companies as proof of your licence

    <https://www.viewdrivingrecord.service.gov.uk/driving-record/licence-number>

    Don't they need the photocard licence to check that it is you?

    --
    Max Demian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Max Demian@21:1/5 to billy bookcase on Sat Apr 27 12:15:51 2024
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked 'Please check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the address given on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a pristine repurposed
    and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it never came back.

    How would that work? Where would it go and who would pay the postage?

    --
    Max Demian

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to Colin Bignell on Sat Apr 27 13:38:52 2024
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:tfCdnaH2dc7-S7H7nZ2dnZeNn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked 'Please
    check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I renewed mine online*, but the prompt was a letter

    Ah right that explains it. I probably got letters as well which I
    seem to have forgotten all about.

    Just as in the speed limit thread I thought the altered speed limit
    on the North Circular was 2 or 3 years ago. In fact I later remebered a
    famous celebrity was caught out as well, James May. September
    2016. In fact 8 years ago, Whreas I can get an elephant from 1952
    spot in.

    telling me that it was due for renewal (which I already knew) that included a form to
    fill in, the envelope mentioned to return it in and instructions on how to do it online
    instead.

    * Done on 22nd with new licence arriving on 26th.

    Anyway having applied online this is part of the email I recieved in
    2016, 2019 and 2022 from driving.licence@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    quote:

    Thank you for submitting your driving licence application online.

    Your driving licence application has been submitted for validation checks. The driving licence should arrive in the post within 2 weeks.

    If you are still in possession of your old driving licence, cut into two and return it
    to:

    DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW

    unquote:

    Please note no mention of postage

    And contrary to the clear instruction included in the two official links I posted
    before

    https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence

    and

    https://dvladigital.blog.gov.uk/2022/12/13/how-to-renew-your-driving-licence-online/

    which was to return the old licence only "after" recieving the new one, here the instruction was to send it before recieving the new one.

    Which as the OP originally said is indeed is both illogical and impractical.


    bb

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to Max Demian on Sat Apr 27 13:48:35 2024
    "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:v0imp2$b5l7$2@dont-email.me...
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked 'Please
    check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the address given >> on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a pristine repurposed
    and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it never came back.

    How would that work? Where would it go and who would pay the postage?

    That's not really my problem

    I sent it to "DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW" as instructed by the email acknowledging my application With no mention of postage

    Had there been news stories of drivers being prosecuted for not returning old licences
    then it would indeed be my problem.

    But there haven't been, so it isn't.

    But then again why should people be denied the chance to make pointless gestures /


    bb

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Colin Bignell@21:1/5 to billy bookcase on Sat Apr 27 15:56:39 2024
    On 27/04/2024 13:38, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:tfCdnaH2dc7-S7H7nZ2dnZeNn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked 'Please
    check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I renewed mine online*, but the prompt was a letter

    Ah right that explains it. I probably got letters as well which I
    seem to have forgotten all about.

    Just as in the speed limit thread I thought the altered speed limit
    on the North Circular was 2 or 3 years ago. In fact I later remebered a famous celebrity was caught out as well, James May. September
    2016. In fact 8 years ago, Whreas I can get an elephant from 1952
    spot in.

    A sign of old age :-)


    telling me that it was due for renewal (which I already knew) that included a form to
    fill in, the envelope mentioned to return it in and instructions on how to do it online
    instead.

    * Done on 22nd with new licence arriving on 26th.

    Anyway having applied online this is part of the email I recieved in
    2016, 2019 and 2022 from driving.licence@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    quote:

    Thank you for submitting your driving licence application online.

    Your driving licence application has been submitted for validation checks. The
    driving licence should arrive in the post within 2 weeks.

    If you are still in possession of your old driving licence, cut into two and return it
    to:

    DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW

    unquote:

    Please note no mention of postage

    Possibly because they assume that people will know that, other than when
    using a pre-paid envelope, the address has to contain the word FREEPOST
    not to require postage to be paid.


    And contrary to the clear instruction included in the two official links I posted
    before

    https://www.gov.uk/renew-driving-licence

    and

    https://dvladigital.blog.gov.uk/2022/12/13/how-to-renew-your-driving-licence-online/

    which was to return the old licence only "after" recieving the new one, here the instruction was to send it before recieving the new one.

    Which as the OP originally said is indeed is both illogical and impractical.


    bb




    --
    Colin Bignell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Hayter@21:1/5 to billy bookcase on Sat Apr 27 15:50:11 2024
    On 27 Apr 2024 at 13:48:35 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:


    "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:v0imp2$b5l7$2@dont-email.me...
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA.

    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked >>>> 'Please
    check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the address given >>> on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a pristine repurposed
    and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it never came >>> back.

    How would that work? Where would it go and who would pay the postage?

    That's not really my problem

    I sent it to "DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW" as instructed by the email acknowledging
    my application With no mention of postage

    Had there been news stories of drivers being prosecuted for not returning old licences
    then it would indeed be my problem.

    But there haven't been, so it isn't.

    But then again why should people be denied the chance to make pointless gestures /


    bb

    It really mystifies me why people fuss about postage. In the old days, and now when a physical letter is needed for evidence or signature or returning an item, it was taken for granted that each side would pay its own postage. Why, especially with government departments, people get worked up about a pound or two as part of ordinary, civilised correspondence I cannot imagine.

    I blame Brexit - it's often the same people involved.


    --

    Roger Hayter

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Colin Bignell@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Sat Apr 27 17:13:34 2024
    On 27/04/2024 16:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 27 Apr 2024 at 13:48:35 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:


    "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:v0imp2$b5l7$2@dont-email.me...
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA. >>>>>>>
    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked >>>>> 'Please
    check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the address given
    on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a pristine repurposed
    and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it never came >>>> back.

    How would that work? Where would it go and who would pay the postage?

    That's not really my problem

    I sent it to "DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW" as instructed by the email acknowledging
    my application With no mention of postage

    Had there been news stories of drivers being prosecuted for not returning old
    licences
    then it would indeed be my problem.

    But there haven't been, so it isn't.

    But then again why should people be denied the chance to make pointless
    gestures /


    bb

    It really mystifies me why people fuss about postage. In the old days, and now
    when a physical letter is needed for evidence or signature or returning an item, it was taken for granted that each side would pay its own postage. Why, especially with government departments, people get worked up about a pound or two as part of ordinary, civilised correspondence I cannot imagine.

    This is a case where a government department is expecting pensioners to
    pay an exorbitant amount, simply to prove that they have destroyed the
    old driving licence, when an emailed photo of it having ben cut in two
    would do the same.


    I blame Brexit - it's often the same people involved.

    It could be an effect of Brexit. Government departments will be having
    to make cuts to try to make it seem as though it hasn't damaged the
    economy as much as was predicted before it happened.

    --
    Colin Bignell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to All on Sat Apr 27 18:27:16 2024
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:8CGdnfVvPspmjLD7nZ2dnZeNn_WdnZ2d@giganews.com...

    snippage

    On 27/04/2024 13:38, billy bookcase wrote:

    Anyway having applied online this is part of the email I recieved in
    2016, 2019 and 2022 from driving.licence@dvla.gsi.gov.uk

    quote:

    Thank you for submitting your driving licence application online.

    Your driving licence application has been submitted for validation checks. The
    driving licence should arrive in the post within 2 weeks.

    If you are still in possession of your old driving licence, cut into two and return it
    to:

    DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW

    unquote:

    Please note no mention of postage

    Possibly because they assume that people will know that, other than when using a
    pre-paid envelope, the address has to contain the word FREEPOST not to require postage
    to be paid.

    I noticed at the time that there were many different DVLA postcodes

    The postcode you send old licences to is DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW

    Whereas other DVLA postcodes include SA99 IBN, SA99 IBE, SA99 IBP

    So I assumed those addressed to SA99 1ZW went straight into the bin/skip/furnace whether with or without a stamp.

    As its not exactly as if they send out any acknowledgements for
    licences recieved, or take sanctions against non-compliance;
    at least AFAIAA


    bb

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Sat Apr 27 18:24:37 2024
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message news:3301142951.69d96ad2@uninhabited.net...
    On 27 Apr 2024 at 13:48:35 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:


    "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:v0imp2$b5l7$2@dont-email.me...
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA. >>>>>>>
    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly marked >>>>> 'Please
    check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the address given
    on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a pristine repurposed
    and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it never came >>>> back.

    How would that work? Where would it go and who would pay the postage?

    That's not really my problem

    I sent it to "DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW" as instructed by the email acknowledging
    my application With no mention of postage

    Had there been news stories of drivers being prosecuted for not returning old
    licences
    then it would indeed be my problem.

    But there haven't been, so it isn't.

    But then again why should people be denied the chance to make pointless
    gestures /


    bb

    It really mystifies me why people fuss about postage. In the old days, and now
    when a physical letter is needed for evidence or signature or returning an item, it was taken for granted that each side would pay its own postage. Why, especially with government departments, people get worked up about a pound or two as part of ordinary, civilised correspondence I cannot imagine.

    What exactly is "civilised" about sending someone an envelope containing nothing more than the the two halves of a cut-up driving licence ?

    Unless of course you include a covering letter.

    And they in turn reply.

    Some hopes.

    What's the betting they all go straight into the bin/furnace/skip, whether stamped or not
    ?


    I blame Brexit - it's often the same people involved.

    Credulity of that staggering magnitude predates Brexit by several millienia,
    I can safely assure you.


    bb

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to Colin Bignell on Sat Apr 27 21:17:07 2024
    On 27-Apr-24 17:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
    On 27/04/2024 16:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 27 Apr 2024 at 13:48:35 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com>
    wrote:


    "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:v0imp2$b5l7$2@dont-email.me...
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA. >>>>>>>>
    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly
    marked
    'Please
    check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form
    or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the
    address given
    on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a
    pristine repurposed
    and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it
    never came
    back.

    How would that work? Where would it go and who would pay the postage?

    That's not really my problem

    I sent it to "DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW" as instructed by the email
    acknowledging
    my application  With no mention of postage

    Had there been news stories of drivers being prosecuted for not
    returning old
    licences
    then it would indeed be my problem.

    But there haven't been, so it isn't.

    But then again why should people be denied the chance to make pointless
    gestures /


    bb

    It really mystifies me why people fuss about postage. In the old days,
    and now
    when a physical letter is needed for evidence or signature or
    returning an
    item, it was taken for granted that each side would pay its own
    postage. Why,
    especially with government departments, people get worked up about a
    pound or
    two as part of ordinary, civilised correspondence I cannot imagine.

    This is a case where a government department is expecting pensioners to
    pay an exorbitant amount, simply to prove that they have destroyed the
    old driving licence, when an emailed photo of it having ben cut in two
    would do the same.

    Why bother with any of this?
    The old licence has past its expiry date, and is thus no longer a
    licence for anything - simply a curiosity and a lump of plastic.

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Colin Bignell@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Sat Apr 27 21:25:09 2024
    On 27/04/2024 21:17, Sam Plusnet wrote:
    On 27-Apr-24 17:13, Colin Bignell wrote:
    On 27/04/2024 16:50, Roger Hayter wrote:
    On 27 Apr 2024 at 13:48:35 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com>
    wrote:


    "Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
    news:v0imp2$b5l7$2@dont-email.me...
    On 27/04/2024 08:30, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message
    news:I8acncLuR_S1i7H7nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
    On 26/04/2024 16:55, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message >>>>>>>> news:pb2cnQ_2MPekWrb7nZ2dnZeNn_udnZ2d@giganews.com...

    On 26/04/2024 12:55, David wrote:

    Again you are supposed to post the cut up bits back to the DVLA. >>>>>>>>>
    The price of postage is a disincentive to do that.

    It was a freepost address when I returned mine

    The addressed envelope that came with the renewal form is clearly >>>>>>> marked
    'Please
    check
    weight and use correct postage'.

    I simply renewed mine online and so didn't need to send in any form >>>>>> or get sent any addressed envelope.

    I simply sent the cut-up old licence back a bit later, to the
    address given
    on the website with no mention of any postage. Using IIRR a
    pristine repurposed
    and relabelled BT or Barclaycard reply envelope. I only know it
    never came
    back.

    How would that work? Where would it go and who would pay the postage? >>>>
    That's not really my problem

    I sent it to "DVLA, Swansea SA99 1ZW" as instructed by the email
    acknowledging
    my application  With no mention of postage

    Had there been news stories of drivers being prosecuted for not
    returning old
    licences
    then it would indeed be my problem.

    But there haven't been, so it isn't.

    But then again why should people be denied the chance to make pointless >>>> gestures /


    bb

    It really mystifies me why people fuss about postage. In the old
    days, and now
    when a physical letter is needed for evidence or signature or
    returning an
    item, it was taken for granted that each side would pay its own
    postage. Why,
    especially with government departments, people get worked up about a
    pound or
    two as part of ordinary, civilised correspondence I cannot imagine.

    This is a case where a government department is expecting pensioners
    to pay an exorbitant amount, simply to prove that they have destroyed
    the old driving licence, when an emailed photo of it having ben cut in
    two would do the same.

    Why bother with any of this?
    The old licence has past its expiry date,

    Mine has not yet. You can apply for a renewal up to 90 days before the
    expiry date of the old licence.

    and is thus no longer a
    licence for anything - simply a curiosity and a lump of plastic.


    --
    Colin Bignell

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From nibble@21:1/5 to Colin Bignell on Sun Apr 28 15:33:17 2024
    On 27/04/2024 17:13, Colin Bignell wrote:

    This is a case where a government department is expecting pensioners to
    pay an exorbitant amount, simply to prove that they have destroyed the
    old driving licence, when an emailed photo of it having ben cut in two
    would do the same.
    ...

    On the other hand the oldie licence itself is free, rather than the 14£ non-pensioners (or at least the under 70s) have to pay!

    nib

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)