https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.'
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a heated altercation.
On 9 Mar 2024 at 09:14:43 GMT, "The Todal" <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable
recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this
alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.' >>
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a
heated altercation.
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will is likely to be contentious.
On 9 Mar 2024 at 09:14:43 GMT, "The Todal" <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable
recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this
alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.' >>
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a
heated altercation.
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective >fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will is likely >to be contentious.
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan say in the
middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you weren't going to get
anything' to be too selective to be a reliable recollection. There is no indication
what was said before and after this alleged statement, there were a lot of people
simultaneously making a great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where
this alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin whom he says
had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.'
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a heated
altercation.
On 9 Mar 2024 at 09:14:43 GMT, "The Todal" <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable
recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this
alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.' >>
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a
heated altercation.
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will is likely to be contentious.
"Everyone will have seen it in the movies; a gathering of potential >beneficiaries gathered in a solicitor’s office, listening to the formal >reading of the will of their recently deceased relative. It’s an
evocative image, and one that many people believe is the truth. The
reality is that this does not happen – there is no actual formal reading
of the will."
On 9 Mar 2024 10:05:34 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
On 9 Mar 2024 at 09:14:43 GMT, "The Todal" <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable
recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this >>> alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.' >>>
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a
heated altercation.
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective
fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will is likely >> to be contentious.
It's not that uncommon. For some people, it's part of the rite of passage following the death of a member of the family. It has no legal significance (and never has, that is pure fiction), but it does serve as an important marker in the process.
On 09/03/2024 in message <l53d2dF2sjnU1@mid.individual.net> Norman Wells wrote:
"Everyone will have seen it in the movies; a gathering of potential
beneficiaries gathered in a solicitor’s office, listening to the
formal reading of the will of their recently deceased relative. It’s
an evocative image, and one that many people believe is the truth. The
reality is that this does not happen – there is no actual formal
reading of the will."
It may have no legal status but there is no reason why people can't do
it if they want to?
On 09/03/2024 11:40, Mark Goodge wrote:
On 9 Mar 2024 10:05:34 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective
fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will is likely
to be contentious.
It's not that uncommon. For some people, it's part of the rite of passage
following the death of a member of the family. It has no legal significance >> (and never has, that is pure fiction), but it does serve as an important
marker in the process.
"Everyone will have seen it in the movies; a gathering of potential >beneficiaries gathered in a solicitor’s office, listening to the formal >reading of the will of their recently deceased relative. It’s an
evocative image, and one that many people believe is the truth. The
reality is that this does not happen – there is no actual formal reading
of the will."
https://probate-a-will.co.uk/2018/09/the-reading-of-the-will/
On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 15:20:45 +0000, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 09/03/2024 11:40, Mark Goodge wrote:
On 9 Mar 2024 10:05:34 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective >>>> fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will
is likely
to be contentious.
It's not that uncommon. For some people, it's part of the rite of passage >>> following the death of a member of the family. It has no legal significance >>> (and never has, that is pure fiction), but it does serve as an important >>> marker in the process.
"Everyone will have seen it in the movies; a gathering of potential >>beneficiaries gathered in a solicitor’s office, listening to the formal >>reading of the will of their recently deceased relative. It’s an >>evocative image, and one that many people believe is the truth. The
reality is that this does not happen – there is no actual formal reading >>of the will."
https://probate-a-will.co.uk/2018/09/the-reading-of-the-will/
And yet, it did happen in the case referred to at the head of this thread. >But I suspect that what the article is saying is essentially the same as
what I said - that is, the reading of the will has no legal significance
(or, in other words, there is no "formal" reading of the will). But it does >happen informally, and possibly more often than people may think.
After my dad died, my mum asked if I wanted to go to the reading of the
will. I declined, partly on the basis that I didn't expect there would be >anything particularly noteworthy in it (and I was right),
and partly because I wasn't really feeling up to it (dad died while I
was laid up with Covid). But my mum and my brother both went along to
the solicitor's office to hear the will read.
Mark
On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 15:20:45 +0000, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 09/03/2024 11:40, Mark Goodge wrote:
On 9 Mar 2024 10:05:34 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective >>>> fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will is likely
to be contentious.
It's not that uncommon. For some people, it's part of the rite of passage >>> following the death of a member of the family. It has no legal significance >>> (and never has, that is pure fiction), but it does serve as an important >>> marker in the process.
"Everyone will have seen it in the movies; a gathering of potential
beneficiaries gathered in a solicitor’s office, listening to the formal
reading of the will of their recently deceased relative. It’s an
evocative image, and one that many people believe is the truth. The
reality is that this does not happen – there is no actual formal reading >> of the will."
https://probate-a-will.co.uk/2018/09/the-reading-of-the-will/
And yet, it did happen in the case referred to at the head of this thread. But I suspect that what the article is saying is essentially the same as
what I said - that is, the reading of the will has no legal significance
(or, in other words, there is no "formal" reading of the will). But it does happen informally, and possibly more often than people may think.
After my dad died, my mum asked if I wanted to go to the reading of the
will. I declined, partly on the basis that I didn't expect there would be anything particularly noteworthy in it (and I was right), and partly because I wasn't really feeling up to it (dad died while I was laid up with Covid). But my mum and my brother both went along to the solicitor's office to hear the will read.
On 10/03/2024 17:39, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Sat, 9 Mar 2024 15:20:45 +0000, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 09/03/2024 11:40, Mark Goodge wrote:And yet, it did happen in the case referred to at the head of this >>thread.
On 9 Mar 2024 10:05:34 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective >>>>> fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will >>>>>is likely
to be contentious.
It's not that uncommon. For some people, it's part of the rite of passage >>>> following the death of a member of the family. It has no legal significance
(and never has, that is pure fiction), but it does serve as an important >>>> marker in the process.
"Everyone will have seen it in the movies; a gathering of potential
beneficiaries gathered in a solicitor’s office, listening to the formal >>> reading of the will of their recently deceased relative. It’s an
evocative image, and one that many people believe is the truth. The
reality is that this does not happen – there is no actual formal reading >>> of the will."
https://probate-a-will.co.uk/2018/09/the-reading-of-the-will/
But I suspect that what the article is saying is essentially the same as
what I said - that is, the reading of the will has no legal significance
(or, in other words, there is no "formal" reading of the will). But it does >> happen informally, and possibly more often than people may think.
After my dad died, my mum asked if I wanted to go to the reading of
the
will. I declined, partly on the basis that I didn't expect there would be
anything particularly noteworthy in it (and I was right), and partly because >> I wasn't really feeling up to it (dad died while I was laid up with Covid). >> But my mum and my brother both went along to the solicitor's office to hear >> the will read.
If a solicitor does it, it's probably because it's another hour he can
charge for, and either because he has been appointed as executor or
because the executor has watched all those movies mentioned above,
thinks it's the way things are always done, and has instructed him to
do so.
Since the Will is the property of the executors, a solicitor is not
entitled to read it to anyone else without such instruction, and may
not even be entitled to read it to himself before Probate is granted
and it becomes publicly available anyway.
It is the executors' responsibility of course to execute the contents
of the Will, and most will inform at least the residue beneficiaries of
the contents relevant to them, just as a courtesy.
I believe there are futuristic but scarcely credible machines being
developed now that can actually copy paper documents. In due course, I >suspect these may remove the need for people to gather in person to
hear written words read out by a venerable legal professional.
I believe there are futuristic but scarcely credible machines being
developed now that can actually copy paper documents. In due course, I >suspect these may remove the need for people to gather in person to hear >written words read out by a venerable legal professional.
Since the Will is the property of the executors, a solicitor is not
entitled to read it to anyone else without such instruction, and may
not even be entitled to read it to himself before Probate is granted
and it becomes publicly available anyway.
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.'
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a heated altercation.
On 9 Mar 2024 at 09:14:43 GMT, "The Todal" <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable
recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this
alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.' >>
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a
heated altercation.
I didn't realise people actually had will readings, except in detective fiction. Is it common? It seems to be a very poor idea if the will is likely to be contentious.
Obviously we see cases in the media when cases have ended up in Court etc - generally when the estates have been larger than most people leave. I am thinking more of those where ‘ordinary’ people leave perhaps a few million-
easy enough these days when you allow for a house, maybe two, a decent portfolio of ISAs etc.
The Todal <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable
recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this
alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.' >>
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a
heated altercation.
I’m curious.
In your experience - I understand you are, our were, in the legal
profession and I assume on occasion had to deal with Wills etc., are
serious disputes in families common?
Obviously we see cases in the media when cases have ended up in Court etc - generally when the estates have been larger than most people leave. I am thinking more of those where ‘ordinary’ people leave perhaps a few million-
easy enough these days when you allow for a house, maybe two, a decent portfolio of ISAs etc.
On 11/03/2024 04:40, Roland Perry wrote:
Since the Will is the property of the executors, a solicitor is not
entitled to read it to anyone else without such instruction, and may
not even be entitled to read it to himself before Probate is granted
and it becomes publicly available anyway.
A similar Catch-22 situation occurs when a will is stored by a bank.
The bank cannot open (or allow a third party to open) the will to
determine the executor.
I would be interested to know how this situation is to be resolved.
If a solicitor draws up the will can they add a signed sheet of paper to
be attached to the will stating " My executor is xxx".
On 11/03/2024 04:40, Roland Perry wrote:
Since the Will is the property of the executors, a solicitor is not
entitled to read it to anyone else without such instruction, and may
not even be entitled to read it to himself before Probate is granted
and it becomes publicly available anyway.
A similar Catch-22 situation occurs when a will is stored by a bank.
The bank cannot open (or allow a third party to open) the will to
determine the executor.
I would be interested to know how this situation is to be resolved.
If a solicitor draws up the will can they add a signed sheet of paper to
be attached to the will stating " My executor is xxx".
The Todal <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Ch/2024/347.html
I consider Andrew's evidence that, at the will reading, he heard Susan
say in the middle of an outburst to Carol that 'we made sure that you
weren't going to get anything' to be too selective to be a reliable
recollection. There is no indication what was said before and after this
alleged statement, there were a lot of people simultaneously making a
great deal of commotion (as is clear from the recording, where this
alleged comment cannot be heard), and he does not identify the cousin
whom he says had a swing at Ann at the same time.
Terence: What arguments! What have you lost your brain as well?
Carol: No I haven't lost my brain, don't be so rude.
Man: Well you slagged me off, you slagged me off you slagged granddad off.' >>
It was shortly after this exchange that the occasion degenerated into a
heated altercation.
I’m curious.
In your experience - I understand you are, our were, in the legal
profession and I assume on occasion had to deal with Wills etc., are
serious disputes in families common?
Obviously we see cases in the media when cases have ended up in Court etc - generally when the estates have been larger than most people leave. I am thinking more of those where ‘ordinary’ people leave perhaps a few million-
easy enough these days when you allow for a house, maybe two, a decent portfolio of ISAs etc.
On 11/03/2024 12:21, Brian wrote:
More recently, some people I know were distraught when their father died
but left all his money and property to his children from his second
marriage and none to the children of his first marriage who only learned
this after arranging the funeral and giving moving eulogies to their
beloved and much missed father. I suggested they go to one of the many
no win no fee law firms who apply under the Inheritance Act for a will
to be varied because it has made insufficient provision for the children
of the deceased. I think the case is still ongoing and the estate is gradually diminishing because of the legal fees but it has become a
matter of principle.
Obviously we see cases in the media when cases have ended up in Court
etc -
generally when the estates have been larger than most people leave. I am
thinking more of those where ‘ordinary’ people leave perhaps a few
million-
easy enough these days when you allow for a house, maybe two, a decent
portfolio of ISAs etc.
I gather that people can get very indignant and hurt if they feel
excluded from a will. It's not just the money (though maybe they were
pinning their hopes on a few thousand quid to pay for a holiday) but
it's the belief that someone has cheated them out of what should be theirs.
On 11/03/2024 12:43, The Todal wrote:
On 11/03/2024 12:21, Brian wrote:
More recently, some people I know were distraught when their father
died but left all his money and property to his children from his
second marriage and none to the children of his first marriage who
only learned this after arranging the funeral and giving moving
eulogies to their beloved and much missed father. I suggested they go
to one of the many no win no fee law firms who apply under the
Inheritance Act for a will to be varied because it has made
insufficient provision for the children of the deceased. I think the
case is still ongoing and the estate is gradually diminishing because
of the legal fees but it has become a matter of principle.
Oh dear. Or, oh great if you're one of the lawyers involved.
Children have no right to any inheritance from a deceased parent unless
they were financially dependent on him leading up to his death.
I suggested they go to one of the many
no win no fee law firms who apply under the Inheritance Act for a will
to be varied because it has made insufficient provision for the children
of the deceased. I think the case is still ongoing and the estate is gradually diminishing because of the legal fees but it has become a
matter of principle.
Obviously we see cases in the media when cases have ended up in Court etc - >> generally when the estates have been larger than most people leave. I am
thinking more of those where ‘ordinary’ people leave perhaps a few million-
easy enough these days when you allow for a house, maybe two, a decent
portfolio of ISAs etc.
The answer is to do what my great grandfather did: spend it or give it
away before dying.
On 11/03/2024 14:24, Norman Wells wrote:
On 11/03/2024 12:43, The Todal wrote:
On 11/03/2024 12:21, Brian wrote:
More recently, some people I know were distraught when their father
died but left all his money and property to his children from his
second marriage and none to the children of his first marriage who
only learned this after arranging the funeral and giving moving
eulogies to their beloved and much missed father. I suggested they go
to one of the many no win no fee law firms who apply under the
Inheritance Act for a will to be varied because it has made
insufficient provision for the children of the deceased. I think the
case is still ongoing and the estate is gradually diminishing because
of the legal fees but it has become a matter of principle.
Oh dear. Or, oh great if you're one of the lawyers involved.
I would hope that if the application is futile the solicitors would say
so promptly. And if it is meritorious the opposing solicitors ought to negotiate promptly. Incidentally there was also at least one mistress
who hadn't been bequeathed anything and wanted to make her own application.
Children have no right to any inheritance from a deceased parent
unless they were financially dependent on him leading up to his death.
Incorrect. You have not stated the law correctly.
There is no requirement that the child must prove he was financially dependant upon the deceased. That is a separate category of applicant.
But your financial needs (and the size of the estate) would have a
bearing on whether you are awarded anything or how much you might be
awarded, so it is certainly a type of claim that requires a specialist lawyer.
The case that is most often cited is that of Ilott https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2017/17.html
In message <k-mcnW7F5LSiZHP4nZ2dnZeNn_idnZ2d@giganews.com>, at 12:35:16
on Mon, 11 Mar 2024, Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> remarked:
Obviously we see cases in the media when cases have ended up in Court
etc -
generally when the estates have been larger than most people leave. I am >>> thinking more of those where ‘ordinary’ people leave perhaps a few
million-
easy enough these days when you allow for a house, maybe two, a decent
portfolio of ISAs etc.
The answer is to do what my great grandfather did: spend it or give it
away before dying.
Which is fine if you don't get run over by a bus, or diagnosed with pancreatic cancer.
If a solicitor draws up the will can they add a signed sheet of paper
to be attached to the will stating " My executor is xxx".
If the deceased trusts their executor(s)
then they will have given them a sealed carbon copy of the Will or >alternatively a letter of authority and/or a list of notable valuables
and where they are located or hidden. Rare books or antiques for
example are not always obvious to anyone other than a collector of such >artefacts.
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds of issues- >especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry >around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 Mar
2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds of issues-
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry
around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about *intestacy*,
rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled to inherit when
there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in it have pre-deceased.
On 11/03/2024 15:23, The Todal wrote:
On 11/03/2024 14:24, Norman Wells wrote:
On 11/03/2024 12:43, The Todal wrote:
On 11/03/2024 12:21, Brian wrote:
More recently, some people I know were distraught when their father
died but left all his money and property to his children from his
second marriage and none to the children of his first marriage who
only learned this after arranging the funeral and giving moving
eulogies to their beloved and much missed father. I suggested they
go to one of the many no win no fee law firms who apply under the
Inheritance Act for a will to be varied because it has made
insufficient provision for the children of the deceased. I think the
case is still ongoing and the estate is gradually diminishing
because of the legal fees but it has become a matter of principle.
Oh dear. Or, oh great if you're one of the lawyers involved.
I would hope that if the application is futile the solicitors would
say so promptly. And if it is meritorious the opposing solicitors
ought to negotiate promptly. Incidentally there was also at least one
mistress who hadn't been bequeathed anything and wanted to make her
own application.
Children have no right to any inheritance from a deceased parent
unless they were financially dependent on him leading up to his death.
Incorrect. You have not stated the law correctly.
There is no requirement that the child must prove he was financially
dependant upon the deceased. That is a separate category of applicant.
But your financial needs (and the size of the estate) would have a
bearing on whether you are awarded anything or how much you might be
awarded, so it is certainly a type of claim that requires a specialist
lawyer.
The case that is most often cited is that of Ilott
https://www.bailii.org/uk/cases/UKSC/2017/17.html
Despite that:
"All but spouses and civil partners who were in that relationship at the
time of death can claim only what is needed for their maintenance; they cannot make a claim on the general basis that it was unfair that they
did not receive any, or a larger, slice of the estate".
Tellingly, you mentioned nothing about any of those who were left
nothing being in straitened circumstances or being anything other than totally independent financially. The only basis for a possible claim
seemed to be that they were 'distraught'. And that's clearly not enough.
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 Mar >>2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds of >>>issues-And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry >>> around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled to >>inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in it
have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
the term used being bona vacantia. Such estates are listed
periodically here:
https://www.bonavacantialist.co.uk/
Heir hunters scour such lists and try to trace possible beneficiaries, >signing them up on, of course, a commission basis.
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 Mar
2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds of And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
issues-
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry >>>> around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled to
inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in it
have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the context
of intestacy rules.
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11
Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds of >>>>>issues- And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry >>>>> around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in
it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the
context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11
Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds ofAnd having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
issues-
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry >>>>>> around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled
to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in
it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the
context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
The intestacy rules are very prescriptive, and people don't need to
"come forward". If no-one volunteers to administer it a professional
is appointed.
On 12 Mar 2024 at 18:09:27 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11
Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds
issues- especially if they have no immediate family. There is >>>>>>>a whole industry around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled
to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in >>>>>> it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the
context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
The intestacy rules are very prescriptive, and people don't need to
"come forward". If no-one volunteers to administer it a professional
is appointed.
They do need to come forward if noone knows that they exist,
or where they are.
That is rather the point.
In message <usmntp$3iosd$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:54:44 on Mon, 11 Mar
2024, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> remarked:
If a solicitor draws up the will can they add a signed sheet of paper
to be attached to the will stating " My executor is xxx".
If the deceased trusts their executor(s)
They don't just have to trust them, they need to know that what follows
is a prudent activity.
then they will have given them a sealed carbon copy of the Will or
alternatively a letter of authority and/or a list of notable valuables
and where they are located or hidden. Rare books or antiques for
example are not always obvious to anyone other than a collector of
such artefacts.
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11
Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds of >>>>>issues- And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry >>>>> around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in
it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11
Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds ofAnd having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
issues-
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry >>>>>> around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled
to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in
it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
And I've explained why that is very unlikely to happen in cases of
intestacy.
<rinse and repeat>
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12 >>>Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the >>>context of intestacy rules.
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds of >>>>>>issues-And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>>*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole industry >>>>>> around tracing ???lost??? relatives.
to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in >>>>>it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
And I've explained why that is very unlikely to happen in cases of
intestacy.
<rinse and repeat>
In message <7172330840.e5d2ce84@uninhabited.net>, at 19:28:43 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 12 Mar 2024 at 18:09:27 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12 >>>>> Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>> Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds of >>>>>>>> issues-Â And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
especially if they have no immediate family. There is a whole >>>>>>>> industry
around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>> to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in >>>>>>> it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a
Will,
 You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the
context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
The intestacy rules are very prescriptive, and people don't need to
"come forward". If no-one volunteers to administer it a professional
is appointed.
They do need to come forward if noone knows that they exist, or where
they are. That is rather the point.
How many spouses destroy the official records then disappear?
On 14 Mar 2024 at 10:47:11 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11
Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds
issues- especially if they have no immediate family. There is >>>>>>>a whole industry around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled
to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in >>>>>> it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the
context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
And I've explained why that is very unlikely to happen in cases of
intestacy.
<rinse and repeat>
You seem to have missed the point that some people die with no spouses and no >known relatives with whom they are in touch. This is actually quite common. >Clearly this subthread is not about people who have a surviving spouse!
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12 >>>>Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds
issues- especially if they have no immediate family. There is >>>>>>>a whole industry around tracing ???lost??? relatives.
And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>>>*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in >>>>>>it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the >>>>context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
And I've explained why that is very unlikely to happen in cases of
intestacy.
<rinse and repeat>
Did you? That's puzzling, because it happens pretty regularly.
On 12/03/2024 03:02, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmntp$3iosd$1@dont-email.me>, at 10:54:44 on Mon, 11 Mar >>2024, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> remarked:
If a solicitor draws up the will can they add a signed sheet of
paper to be attached to the will stating " My executor is xxx".
If the deceased trusts their executor(s)
They don't just have to trust them, they need to know that what
follows is a prudent activity.
then they will have given them a sealed carbon copy of the Will or >>>alternatively a letter of authority and/or a list of notable
valuables and where they are located or hidden. Rare books or
antiques for example are not always obvious to anyone other than a >>>collector of such artefacts.
Such a document may be kept with the Will or in the place where the
deceased kept all of their "Important papers" (including the obligatory
£10 in Premium Bonds original issue paper certificate).
Without some guidance old books in particular are very hard to value
and likely to be sold off as a job lot. Some old books are worth a
*lot* more than others but they look pretty much like any other old book.
On 14/03/2024 10:47, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <7172330840.e5d2ce84@uninhabited.net>, at 19:28:43 on Tue,
12 Mar 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 12 Mar 2024 at 18:09:27 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12 >>>>>> Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>> Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds >>>>>>>>>of issues- especially if they have no immediate family. >>>>>>>>>There is a whole industry around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
 And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>> to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in >>>>>>>> it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a >>>>>>>Will,
 You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the >>>>>> context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come
forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
The intestacy rules are very prescriptive, and people don't need to
"come forward". If no-one volunteers to administer it a professional
is appointed.
They do need to come forward if noone knows that they exist, or
where they are. That is rather the point.
How many spouses destroy the official records then disappear?
Not all those who die have a spouse. Not all those who die have a
Will. Not all those who die have close relatives.
It is those whose estates end up bona vacantia and become of interest
to heir hunters.
And there are sufficient of those to keep them in the manner to which
they've become accustomed.
In message <l5g7hrF1r66U1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:06:20 on Thu, 14
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on
Tue, 12 Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>>> Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds >>>>>>>>>> of issues- especially if they have no immediate family. >>>>>>>>>> There is a whole industry around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
 And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>>> to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people
mentioned in it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a >>>>>>>> Will,
Not all those who die have a spouse. Not all those who die have a
Will. Not all those who die have close relatives.
Do try to keep up! We are discussing intestate estates where there *is*
a spouse.
It is those whose estates end up bona vacantia and become of interest
to heir hunters.
So not the ones we discussing.
And there are sufficient of those to keep them in the manner to which
they've become accustomed.
Possibly so, but off-topic I'm afraid.
On 19/03/2024 02:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5g7hrF1r66U1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:06:20 on Thu, 14
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on
Tue, 12 Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>>>> Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds >>>>>>>>>>> of issues- especially if they have no immediate family. >>>>>>>>>>> There is a whole industry around tracing ???lost??? relatives.
And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about
*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>>>> to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people
mentioned in it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a >>>>>>>>> Will,
Not all those who die have a spouse. Not all those who die have a
Will. Not all those who die have close relatives.
Do try to keep up! We are discussing intestate estates where there *is*
a spouse.
Are we?
In message <usunir$1is0a$3@dont-email.me>, at 11:38:05 on Thu, 14 Mar
2024, Handsome Jack <Jack@handsome.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12 >>>>>Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds >>>>>>>> issues- especially if they have no immediate family. There is >>>>>>>>a whole industry around tracing ???lost??? relatives.
And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>>>>*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in >>>>>>>it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will,
You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the >>>>>context of intestacy rules.
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come >>>>forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
And I've explained why that is very unlikely to happen in cases of
intestacy.
<rinse and repeat>
Did you? That's puzzling, because it happens pretty regularly.
What happens pretty regularly, intestate estates with a surviving
spouse, who is mysteriously untraceable at the first attempt (which is
the responsibility of the executor).
On 19/03/2024 02:54, Roland Perry wrote:Yes we are. Or trying to at least, while batting off the chaff and
In message <l5g7hrF1r66U1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:06:20 on Thu, 14
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on >>>>>>>>Tue, 12 Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>>>> Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all >>>>>>>>>>>kinds of issues- especially if they have no immediate >>>>>>>>>>>family. There is a whole industry around tracing ‘lost’ relatives.
 And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>>>>>>> *intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>>>> to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people >>>>>>>>>>mentioned in it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was >>>>>>>>>a Will,
Not all those who die have a spouse. Not all those who die have a >>>Will. Not all those who die have close relatives.Do try to keep up! We are discussing intestate estates where there
*is* a spouse.
Are we?
Perhaps you'd identify 'that TV show' you alluded to above that hadn't
even once been hinted before in this thread.
The only TV show of any relevance to what we were discussing, ie
tracing lost relatives is, as far as I'm aware, the appropriately named
Heir Hunters.
It is those whose estates end up bona vacantia and become ofSo not the ones we discussing.
interest to heir hunters.
And there are sufficient of those to keep them in the manner toPossibly so, but off-topic I'm afraid.
which they've become accustomed.
They're the ones covered by Heir Hunters. If you just mean others,
perhaps you should have said a bit more clearly.
Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 19/03/2024 02:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5g7hrF1r66U1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:06:20 on Thu, 14
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on >>>>>>>>> Tue, 12 Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked: >>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>>>>> Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds >>>>>>>>>>>> of issues- especially if they have no immediate family. >>>>>>>>>>>> There is a whole industry around tracing ???lost??? relatives. >>>And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>>>>>>>> *intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>>>>> to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people
mentioned in it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a >>>>>>>>>> Will,
Not all those who die have a spouse. Not all those who die have a
Will. Not all those who die have close relatives.
Do try to keep up! We are discussing intestate estates where there *is*
a spouse.
Are we?
No, we weren't. Roland has suddenly inserted "with a surviving spouse". >Nobody else was talking about that condition.
In message <utc534$rqec$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:48:22 on Tue, 19 Mar
2024, Handsome Jack <Jack@handsome.com> remarked:
Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 19/03/2024 02:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5g7hrF1r66U1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:06:20 on Thu, 14
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on >>>>>>>>>> Tue, 12 Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>>>>>> Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds >>>>>>>>>>>>> of issues- especially if they have no immediate family. >>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a whole industry around tracing ???lost??? relatives. >>>>And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>>>>>>>>> *intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>>>>>> to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people >>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned in it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a >>>>>>>>>>> Will,
Not all those who die have a spouse. Not all those who die have a
Will. Not all those who die have close relatives.
Do try to keep up! We are discussing intestate estates where there *is* >>>> a spouse.
Are we?
No, we weren't. Roland has suddenly inserted "with a surviving spouse".
Nobody else was talking about that condition.
If the spouse isn't surviving, they are hardly going to turn up to
"claim" their legacy. So I was just trying to clarify the parameters.
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <usunir$1is0a$3@dont-email.me>, at 11:38:05 on Thu, 14 Mar
2024, Handsome Jack <Jack@handsome.com> remarked:
Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l5bhdtF9bjoU6@mid.individual.net>, at 17:24:14 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 15:58, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on Tue, 12 >>>>>>Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>>Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds >>>>>>>>> issues- especially if they have no immediate family. There is >>>>>>>>>a whole industry around tracing ???lost??? relatives.
You need to explain what the concept of "unclaimed" means in the >>>>>>context of intestacy rules.And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>>>>>*intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>>to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people mentioned in >>>>>>>>it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a Will, >>
What's so difficult? It means, obviously, where no-one has come >>>>>forward to claim the estate or to administer it.
And I've explained why that is very unlikely to happen in cases of
intestacy.
<rinse and repeat>
Did you? That's puzzling, because it happens pretty regularly.
What happens pretty regularly, intestate estates with a surviving
spouse, who is mysteriously untraceable at the first attempt (which is
the responsibility of the executor).
You have suddenly inserted "with a surviving spouse". Nobody else
was talking about that condition.
On 21 Mar 2024 at 08:40:52 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <utc534$rqec$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:48:22 on Tue, 19 Mar
2024, Handsome Jack <Jack@handsome.com> remarked:
Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
On 19/03/2024 02:54, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l5g7hrF1r66U1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:06:20 on Thu, 14 >>>>> Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
In message <l5ag54F5f0pU1@mid.individual.net>, at 07:56:20 on >>>>>>>>>>> Tue, 12 Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked: >>>>>>>>>>>> On 12/03/2024 03:05, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <usmthq$3k1uc$1@dont-email.me>, at 12:30:50 on Mon, 11 >>>>>>>>>>>>> Mar 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Of course, not everyone has a Will. That can lead to all kinds >>>>>>>>>>>>>> of issues- especially if they have no immediate family. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> There is a whole industry around tracing ???lost??? relatives. >>>>>And having watched that TV show recently, it's not about >>>>>>>>>>>>> *intestacy*, rather it's tracing the successors who are entitled >>>>>>>>>>>>> to inherit when there *is* a will, but all the people >>>>>>>>>>>>> mentioned in it have pre-deceased.
It's actually about unclaimed estates whether or not there was a >>>>>>>>>>>> Will,
Not all those who die have a spouse. Not all those who die have a >>>>>> Will. Not all those who die have close relatives.
Do try to keep up! We are discussing intestate estates where there *is* >>>>> a spouse.
Are we?
No, we weren't. Roland has suddenly inserted "with a surviving spouse".
Nobody else was talking about that condition.
If the spouse isn't surviving, they are hardly going to turn up to
"claim" their legacy. So I was just trying to clarify the parameters.
Current spouses are perhaps the least likely relatives to be totally unknown >when someone dies.
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