Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No
dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in the
light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No
dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in the
light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
There are some areas where being a UK citizen is a necessary
restriction.
On 2024-03-02, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No
dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in the
light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a citizenship as
the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens
whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Was it a job in the military or security services or something, or a
company that contracts for them? If not then it's difficult to think of
a reason that this wouldn't be illegal discrimination.
On 02/03/2024 19:03, Jethro_uk wrote:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No
dual nationals need apply.
I had that when, decades ago, I applied for a job to design weapons
systems for a company that supplied our military. IIRC, my parents and grandparents also had to have been British citizens. I also knew
somebody who was asked to provide positive vetting information for a
person she knew who wanted a job selling Concorde. There are some areas
where being a UK citizen is a necessary restriction.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in the
light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a citizenship as the
same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens
whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No
dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in the
light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 09:12:19 +0000, Colin Bignell wrote:
There are some areas where being a UK citizen is a necessary
restriction.
Yes. But *only* a UK citizen ?
How would say Boris Johnson have coped when he was a US citizen ?
Suppose a UK citizen also holds a nationality of a country that refuses
to allow renunciation ?
Despite having previously vetted, when I again started a defence related
job, I had to be vetted again. This I discovered was because I had
acquired dual-nat with Australia. I pointed out that Australia was
hardly the enemy, but the reason was that clearance for NATO was also required and Australia for obvious reasons, was not a member.
On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 02:30:17 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
On 2024-03-02, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens.
No dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in
the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US
citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Was it a job in the military or security services or something,
or a company that contracts for them? If not then it's difficult
to think of a reason that this wouldn't be illegal discrimination.
TFL discriminates against white candidates.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/careers/stuart-ross-communications-
internship
On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 02:30:17 +0000, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2024-03-02, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No
dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in the
light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a citizenship as
the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens
whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Was it a job in the military or security services or something, or a company that contracts for them? If not then it's difficult to think of
a reason that this wouldn't be illegal discrimination.
If it was, it didn't mention it.
On 03/03/2024 10:04 am, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 09:12:19 +0000, Colin Bignell wrote:
There are some areas where being a UK citizen is a necessary
restriction.
Yes. But *only* a UK citizen ?
How would say Boris Johnson have coped when he was a US citizen ?
Since he was a UK citizen as well, the requirements were satisfied.
Suppose a UK citizen also holds a nationality of a country that refuses
to allow renunciation ?
On 08:19 3 Mar 2024, Codger said:
On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 02:30:17 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
On 2024-03-02, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens.
No dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in
the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US
citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Was it a job in the military or security services or something,
or a company that contracts for them? If not then it's difficult
to think of a reason that this wouldn't be illegal discrimination.
TFL discriminates against white candidates.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/careers/stuart-ross-communications-
internship
What's the legality of it?
On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 14:26:16 +0000, JNugent wrote:
On 03/03/2024 10:04 am, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 09:12:19 +0000, Colin Bignell wrote:
There are some areas where being a UK citizen is a necessary
restriction.
Yes. But *only* a UK citizen ?
How would say Boris Johnson have coped when he was a US citizen ?
Since he was a UK citizen as well, the requirements were satisfied.
Suppose a UK citizen also holds a nationality of a country that refuses
to allow renunciation ?
You may wish to re-read my OP where I noted that applicants were required
to hold *only* UK citizenship *and no other*. Boris Johnson was famously
a reluctant US citizen who was required to pay US taxes simply by dint of being born there. Ultimately he renounced it, and legal commentators in
US circles believe this is valid.
On 02/03/2024 19:03, Jethro_uk wrote:
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
They either are US citizens or they're not, depending only on US
citizenship law. There's no 'considered' about it.
On 03-Mar-24 18:01, Jethro_uk wrote:
You may wish to re-read my OP where I noted that applicants were required
to hold *only* UK citizenship *and no other*. Boris Johnson was famously
a reluctant US citizen who was required to pay US taxes simply by dint of
being born there. Ultimately he renounced it, and legal commentators in
US circles believe this is valid.
If there is a genuine reason to bar anyone who owes some level of
allegiance to a foreign power, then having them renounce their
citizenship ought not to be enough. I'm sure a potential spy would do this.
On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 14:26:16 +0000, JNugent wrote:
On 03/03/2024 10:04 am, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Sun, 03 Mar 2024 09:12:19 +0000, Colin Bignell wrote:
There are some areas where being a UK citizen is a necessary
restriction.
Yes. But *only* a UK citizen ?
How would say Boris Johnson have coped when he was a US citizen ?
Since he was a UK citizen as well, the requirements were satisfied.
Suppose a UK citizen also holds a nationality of a country that refuses
to allow renunciation ?
You may wish to re-read my OP where I noted that applicants were required
to hold *only* UK citizenship *and no other*.
Boris Johnson was famously
a reluctant US citizen who was required to pay US taxes simply by dint of being born there. Ultimately he renounced it, and legal commentators in
US circles believe this is valid.
On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 09:03:29 +0000, Norman Wells wrote...
On 02/03/2024 19:03, Jethro_uk wrote:
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens
whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
They either are US citizens or they're not, depending only on US
citizenship law. There's no 'considered' about it.
However, that misses Jethro's point about UK people who are considered
US citizens whether they like it or not. It seems to be more flexible
if you don't like it.
"Record number of Americans dump U.S. passports" https://money.cnn.com/2016/02/08/news/americans-citizenship-
renunciation/
Here's a UK/US dual citizen who was among them:
https://money.cnn.com/2017/02/09/news/boris-johnson-us- citizenship/index.html
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/feb/08/boris-johnson- renounces-us-citizenship-record-2016-uk-foreign-secretary
On 2024-03-03, Pamela <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
On 08:19 3 Mar 2024, Codger said:
On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 02:30:17 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
On 2024-03-02, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK
citizens. No dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in
the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US
citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Was it a job in the military or security services or something,
or a company that contracts for them? If not then it's difficult
to think of a reason that this wouldn't be illegal discrimination.
TFL discriminates against white candidates.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/careers/stuart-ross-communications-
internship
What's the legality of it?
Presumably it's legal since it's happening and we haven't heard about
them getting sued. As I mentioned last month, you are *allowed* to discriminate against people, providing it is a "proportionate means
of achieving a legitimate aim". If the aim is to reduce overall discrimination within the organisation then it may well be allowed.
On 18:53 3 Mar 2024, Jon Ribbens said:
On 2024-03-03, Pamela <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
On 08:19 3 Mar 2024, Codger said:
On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 02:30:17 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
On 2024-03-02, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK
citizens. No dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in
the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US
citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Was it a job in the military or security services or something,
or a company that contracts for them? If not then it's difficult
to think of a reason that this wouldn't be illegal discrimination.
TFL discriminates against white candidates.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/careers/stuart-ross-communications-
internship
What's the legality of it?
Presumably it's legal since it's happening and we haven't heard about
them getting sued. As I mentioned last month, you are *allowed* to
discriminate against people, providing it is a "proportionate means
of achieving a legitimate aim". If the aim is to reduce overall
discrimination within the organisation then it may well be allowed.
Googling further ...
"Positive discrimination is the unlawful process of giving
individuals who possess a protected characteristic preferential
treatment, or automatically favouring them over individuals who do
not share that protected characteristic, without considering
individual merit."
On 2024-03-04, Pamela <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
On 18:53 3 Mar 2024, Jon Ribbens said:
On 2024-03-03, Pamela <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
On 08:19 3 Mar 2024, Codger said:
On Sun, 3 Mar 2024 02:30:17 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
<jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
On 2024-03-02, Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK
citizens. No dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially
in the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US
citizens whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
Was it a job in the military or security services or something,
or a company that contracts for them? If not then it's difficult
to think of a reason that this wouldn't be illegal discrimination.
TFL discriminates against white candidates.
https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/careers/stuart-ross-communications-
internship
What's the legality of it?
Presumably it's legal since it's happening and we haven't heard
about them getting sued. As I mentioned last month, you are
*allowed* to discriminate against people, providing it is a
"proportionate means of achieving a legitimate aim". If the aim is
to reduce overall discrimination within the organisation then it may
well be allowed.
Googling further ...
"Positive discrimination is the unlawful process of giving
individuals who possess a protected characteristic preferential
treatment, or automatically favouring them over individuals who do
not share that protected characteristic, without considering
individual merit."
Just because something can be done unlawfully doesn't necessarily mean
that it cannot be done lawfully. That blog goes on to explain that you
can discriminate lawfully, and indeed we can see from s159 of the
Equality Act that positive discrimination in recruitment is explicitly allowed.
My guess would be that, if challenged, TfL would say that they have
plenty of other recruitment/internship schemes that do not
discriminate, so their excluding people from this one scheme is
reasonable and lawful.
Googling further ...
"Positive discrimination is the unlawful process of giving
individuals who possess a protected characteristic preferential
treatment, or automatically favouring them over individuals who do
not share that protected characteristic, without considering
individual merit."
"For example, where there are two job applicants, and one of the
applicants is from an ethnic minority group but less qualified
than the other candidate, it would be unlawful to hire that
individual, regardless of the need to increase the number of
employees from ethnic minority backgrounds."
<https://www.farrer.co.uk/news-and-insights/blogs/
increasing-diversity-in-the-workplace-how-to-use-positive-
action-in-recruitment-lawfully/>
OR https://shorturl.at/vKU08
Also "CRE rules 'No whites' advert unlawful", although this is from
2004.
https://www.theguardian.com/uk/2004/aug/05/race.arts
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No
dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in
the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
I don't think anyone thinks they're the same actually.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens
whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
They either are US citizens or they're not, depending only on US
citizenship law. There's no 'considered' about it.
In message <l4ismvFf8u5U2@mid.individual.net>, at 09:03:29 on Sun, 3 Mar 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No
dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in
the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
I don't think anyone thinks they're the same actually.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens
whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
They either are US citizens or they're not, depending only on US >>citizenship law. There's no 'considered' about it.
The US military will not allow dual-citizens to work in civilian jobs at their bases, even though they are undoubtedly US citizens. It's the
"also UK citizens" which is the poison pill.
On 2024-03-12, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l4ismvFf8u5U2@mid.individual.net>, at 09:03:29 on Sun, 3 Mar
2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No >>>> dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in
the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
I don't think anyone thinks they're the same actually.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens >>>> whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
They either are US citizens or they're not, depending only on US >>>citizenship law. There's no 'considered' about it.
The US military will not allow dual-citizens to work in civilian jobs at
their bases, even though they are undoubtedly US citizens. It's the
"also UK citizens" which is the poison pill.
In case of traffic collisions outside the bases?
In message <cl66ckxh0t.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>, at 14:49:48 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> remarked:
On 2024-03-12, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l4ismvFf8u5U2@mid.individual.net>, at 09:03:29 on Sun, 3 Mar >>> 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No >>>>> dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in >>>>>the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a >>>>>citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
I don't think anyone thinks they're the same actually.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens >>>>> whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
They either are US citizens or they're not, depending only on US >>>>citizenship law. There's no 'considered' about it.
The US military will not allow dual-citizens to work in civilian jobs at >>> their bases, even though they are undoubtedly US citizens. It's the
"also UK citizens" which is the poison pill.
In case of traffic collisions outside the bases?
No, it's about loyalty to the USA.
On 2024-03-12, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <cl66ckxh0t.ln2@news.ducksburg.com>, at 14:49:48 on Tue, 12
Mar 2024, Adam Funk <a24061a@ducksburg.com> remarked:
On 2024-03-12, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <l4ismvFf8u5U2@mid.individual.net>, at 09:03:29 on Sun, 3 Mar >>>> 2024, Norman Wells <hex@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
Noticed a job advert that required applicants only be UK citizens. No >>>>>> dual nationals need apply.
Interested in the legality, and issues around this. Especially in >>>>>> the light of *some* peoples view that being eligible for a
citizenship as the same as having that citizenship.
I don't think anyone thinks they're the same actually.
The interesting position of UK citizens who are considered US citizens >>>>>> whether they like it or not also springs to mind.
They either are US citizens or they're not, depending only on US
citizenship law. There's no 'considered' about it.
The US military will not allow dual-citizens to work in civilian jobs at >>>> their bases, even though they are undoubtedly US citizens. It's the
"also UK citizens" which is the poison pill.
In case of traffic collisions outside the bases?
No, it's about loyalty to the USA.
...in case British interests cease to align with those of M&M
Industries.
On 13-Mar-24 12:25, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2024-03-12, Roland Perry wrote:
No, it's about loyalty to the USA.
...in case British interests cease to align with those of M&M
Industries.
I wonder how many will Catch the reference?
On 2024-03-13, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:
On 13-Mar-24 12:25, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2024-03-12, Roland Perry wrote:
No, it's about loyalty to the USA.
...in case British interests cease to align with those of M&M
Industries.
I wonder how many will Catch the reference?
My guess is 22.
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