• A protocol question

    From Richard Treen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Feb 29 09:03:40 2024
    In yearly general meetings of the members of my housing organisation,
    there are numerous aged members absent.
    As a result, some prominent members carry many proxy votes on the
    absentees' behalf.

    In this situation, should these proxy votes be on a pre defined
    subject with a decided yea or nay?

    If not, the holder of these multiple "free" votes can overwhelm
    individual single voters at the meetings, making for an unbalanced and
    possibly unsatisfactory outcome for a large proportion of attendees.

    Is this generally and traditionally considered to be acceptable
    practice in these organisational situations?
    --

    Ric_Treen

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  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to Richard Treen on Thu Feb 29 09:38:26 2024
    On 29/02/2024 in message <05h0uihurg02k6i89etdk8c8a4liv240le@4ax.com>
    Richard Treen wrote:

    In yearly general meetings of the members of my housing organisation,
    there are numerous aged members absent.
    As a result, some prominent members carry many proxy votes on the
    absentees' behalf.

    In this situation, should these proxy votes be on a pre defined
    subject with a decided yea or nay?

    If not, the holder of these multiple "free" votes can overwhelm
    individual single voters at the meetings, making for an unbalanced and >possibly unsatisfactory outcome for a large proportion of attendees.

    Is this generally and traditionally considered to be acceptable
    practice in these organisational situations?

    We had the same problem with a residents' association, one elderly lady
    would go round collecting proxies by the handful so we would always do
    what was "right".

    I have put the form we used on Dropbox:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/0s3sks21uhqbos5v98ks5/Proxy-Appointment-Form.doc?rlkey=le27e6g1wb0qeyma4c8es312c&dl=0

    It is split in two, members could either appoint a general proxy to vote
    as they wish or give instruction as to how the proxy should vote. You need
    to consider:

    What does the constitution say about proxies?
    A system of checking the proxy is properly authorised and the proxy votes
    as instructed.

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
    will stop making it

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  • From Brian@21:1/5 to Richard Treen on Thu Feb 29 09:57:37 2024
    Richard Treen <treenoakio@home.com> wrote:
    In yearly general meetings of the members of my housing organisation,
    there are numerous aged members absent.
    As a result, some prominent members carry many proxy votes on the
    absentees' behalf.

    In this situation, should these proxy votes be on a pre defined
    subject with a decided yea or nay?

    If not, the holder of these multiple "free" votes can overwhelm
    individual single voters at the meetings, making for an unbalanced and possibly unsatisfactory outcome for a large proportion of attendees.

    Is this generally and traditionally considered to be acceptable
    practice in these organisational situations?

    Such behaviour is, sadly, all too common in many situations. Many who run clubs/ associations / etc rely on the apathy of members / residents etc.

    The only solution is to ‘play’ them at their own game by collecting the proxy votes for change or convince people to turn up.

    It can be done, it just takes time / organisation.

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  • From Fredxx@21:1/5 to Brian on Thu Feb 29 11:29:34 2024
    On 29/02/2024 09:57, Brian wrote:
    Richard Treen <treenoakio@home.com> wrote:
    In yearly general meetings of the members of my housing organisation,
    there are numerous aged members absent.
    As a result, some prominent members carry many proxy votes on the
    absentees' behalf.

    In this situation, should these proxy votes be on a pre defined
    subject with a decided yea or nay?

    If not, the holder of these multiple "free" votes can overwhelm
    individual single voters at the meetings, making for an unbalanced and
    possibly unsatisfactory outcome for a large proportion of attendees.

    Is this generally and traditionally considered to be acceptable
    practice in these organisational situations?

    Such behaviour is, sadly, all too common in many situations. Many who run clubs/ associations / etc rely on the apathy of members / residents etc.

    The only solution is to ‘play’ them at their own game by collecting the proxy votes for change or convince people to turn up.

    It can be done, it just takes time / organisation.

    Some clubs and associations only allow matters in the agenda to be voted
    upon, so there are no surprise last minute motions. And allow the
    equivalent of a postal vote.

    Any other business is carried out at EGMs which will have a notice period.

    Others have suggested alternatives and my only suggestion is to propose
    a change to the rules so that the individuals themselves have a say.
    Perhaps propose an EGM on the matter?

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to Richard Treen on Thu Feb 29 15:28:08 2024
    On 29/02/2024 09:03 am, Richard Treen wrote:

    In yearly general meetings of the members of my housing organisation,
    there are numerous aged members absent.
    As a result, some prominent members carry many proxy votes on the
    absentees' behalf.

    In this situation, should these proxy votes be on a pre defined
    subject with a decided yea or nay?

    If not, the holder of these multiple "free" votes can overwhelm
    individual single voters at the meetings, making for an unbalanced and possibly unsatisfactory outcome for a large proportion of attendees.

    Is this generally and traditionally considered to be acceptable
    practice in these organisational situations?

    A proxy vote at a Parliamentary election is cast by the proxy according
    to their own preferences. There is no way for the person giving their
    vote to another (to use as a proxy) to mandate how it will be cast.

    It is therefore advisable - if possible - to entrust one's vote to a
    proxy whom one can trust to vote in the preferred way. The easiest way
    to ensure that is to give the proxy to a member - and preferably an
    officer - of the party one favours.

    It seems likely to me that if that is the situation with Parliamentary elections (and it is), it is probably very similar with other, less
    official, elections.

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  • From Roger Hayter@21:1/5 to JNugent on Thu Feb 29 20:19:43 2024
    On 29 Feb 2024 at 15:28:08 GMT, "JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:

    On 29/02/2024 09:03 am, Richard Treen wrote:

    In yearly general meetings of the members of my housing organisation,
    there are numerous aged members absent.
    As a result, some prominent members carry many proxy votes on the
    absentees' behalf.

    In this situation, should these proxy votes be on a pre defined
    subject with a decided yea or nay?

    If not, the holder of these multiple "free" votes can overwhelm
    individual single voters at the meetings, making for an unbalanced and
    possibly unsatisfactory outcome for a large proportion of attendees.

    Is this generally and traditionally considered to be acceptable
    practice in these organisational situations?

    A proxy vote at a Parliamentary election is cast by the proxy according
    to their own preferences. There is no way for the person giving their
    vote to another (to use as a proxy) to mandate how it will be cast.

    It is therefore advisable - if possible - to entrust one's vote to a
    proxy whom one can trust to vote in the preferred way. The easiest way
    to ensure that is to give the proxy to a member - and preferably an
    officer - of the party one favours.

    It seems likely to me that if that is the situation with Parliamentary elections (and it is), it is probably very similar with other, less
    official, elections.

    It is very common with companies and associations for the option to be presented in proxy forms *either* to mandate the vote for each motion (or candidate), *or* to leave it to the person holding the proxy. I don't know if there is any legal basis for this or whether it is just how the articles of association are written.

    --
    Roger Hayter

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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Thu Feb 29 23:51:11 2024
    On 29/02/2024 08:19 pm, Roger Hayter wrote:

    On 29 Feb 2024 at 15:28:08 GMT, "JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:
    On 29/02/2024 09:03 am, Richard Treen wrote:

    In yearly general meetings of the members of my housing organisation,
    there are numerous aged members absent.
    As a result, some prominent members carry many proxy votes on the
    absentees' behalf.
    In this situation, should these proxy votes be on a pre defined
    subject with a decided yea or nay?
    If not, the holder of these multiple "free" votes can overwhelm
    individual single voters at the meetings, making for an unbalanced and
    possibly unsatisfactory outcome for a large proportion of attendees.
    Is this generally and traditionally considered to be acceptable
    practice in these organisational situations?

    A proxy vote at a Parliamentary election is cast by the proxy according
    to their own preferences. There is no way for the person giving their
    vote to another (to use as a proxy) to mandate how it will be cast.
    It is therefore advisable - if possible - to entrust one's vote to a
    proxy whom one can trust to vote in the preferred way. The easiest way
    to ensure that is to give the proxy to a member - and preferably an
    officer - of the party one favours.
    It seems likely to me that if that is the situation with Parliamentary
    elections (and it is), it is probably very similar with other, less
    official, elections.

    It is very common with companies and associations for the option to be presented in proxy forms *either* to mandate the vote for each motion (or candidate), *or* to leave it to the person holding the proxy. I don't know if there is any legal basis for this or whether it is just how the articles of association are written.

    The first of those doesn't sound different from a postal vote.

    The absent voter would have a choice of posting-in or letting a proxy
    fill in the ballot paper as he/she sees fit.

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  • From Richard Treen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Mar 2 09:14:58 2024
    Thanks all for the helpful advice.
    I'll start by adopting the forms idea.
    --

    Ric_Treen

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