On 21/02/2024 15:33, Martin Harran wrote:

A couple of years ago, our children bought us a hot air balloon flight
for our golden anniversary. We have already booked the flight on three occasions which have been cancelled due to adverse weather. The first
two times, the flight was postponed the previous day, on the third
time we actually got as far as unfurling the balloon on the take-off
field but they had to cancel at the last minute as some dark clouds
gathered.

We are about to book for attempt for this July - our bookings have to
tie in with trips to visit our family in the UK(usually twice per
year) and if it gets cancelled this time, we will really have lost
interest in this and prefer to get a refund. In the company's T&C
however, it states that they will not give a refund until the flight
has been cancelled by them *seven* times.

Is this legally sustainable by them? It seems unfair in terms of
consumer protection where the general rule of thumb seems to be that
if a company cannot deliver the ordered items or if there is a fault
with them, they get one chance to put it right

I'm going to say 'yes' on the basis that wind speed must be within
certain numbers, or I suspect the risk and corresponding insurance
premiums go through the roof.

Hence the limited number of days when they can fly.

It was a condition of booking, and given the limited number of actual
balloon flying days I'm not surprised they provide 7 'chances' before
refund.

BICBW

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On 21/02/2024 15:33, Martin Harran wrote:

A couple of years ago, our children bought us a hot air balloon flight
for our golden anniversary. We have already booked the flight on three occasions which have been cancelled due to adverse weather. The first
two times, the flight was postponed the previous day, on the third
time we actually got as far as unfurling the balloon on the take-off
field but they had to cancel at the last minute as some dark clouds
gathered.

We are about to book for attempt for this July - our bookings have to
tie in with trips to visit our family in the UK(usually twice per
year) and if it gets cancelled this time, we will really have lost
interest in this and prefer to get a refund. In the company's T&C
however, it states that they will not give a refund until the flight
has been cancelled by them *seven* times.

Is this legally sustainable by them? It seems unfair in terms of
consumer protection where the general rule of thumb seems to be that
if a company cannot deliver the ordered items or if there is a fault
with them, they get one chance to put it right

It might be worth looking at the T&C of other balloon companies to see
if they also use a seven times cancellation condition before refund. If
they do, then it would appear to be an "industry standard", and you'd be unlikely to successfully challenge it. If most, however, use only three
or four, then perhaps you could try to challenge the terms of the
company you used as being unreasonable.

--

Jeff

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On 23:57 21 Feb 2024, Fredxx said:

On 21/02/2024 15:33, Martin Harran wrote:

A couple of years ago, our children bought us a hot air balloon
flight for our golden anniversary. We have already booked the flight
on three occasions which have been cancelled due to adverse weather.
The first two times, the flight was postponed the previous day, on
the third time we actually got as far as unfurling the balloon on the
take-off field but they had to cancel at the last minute as some dark
clouds gathered.

We are about to book for attempt for this July - our bookings have to
tie in with trips to visit our family in the UK(usually twice per
year) and if it gets cancelled this time, we will really have lost
interest in this and prefer to get a refund. In the company's T&C
however, it states that they will not give a refund until the flight
has been cancelled by them *seven* times.

Is this legally sustainable by them? It seems unfair in terms of
consumer protection where the general rule of thumb seems to be that
if a company cannot deliver the ordered items or if there is a fault
with them, they get one chance to put it right

I'm going to say 'yes' on the basis that wind speed must be within
certain numbers, or I suspect the risk and corresponding insurance
premiums go through the roof.

Hence the limited number of days when they can fly.

It was a condition of booking, and given the limited number of actual
balloon flying days I'm not surprised they provide 7 'chances' before
refund.

BICBW

That seems reasonable. No doubt the provider would explain that if they
bore the cost of repeated bad weather cancellations then they would have
to significantly increase the price of the ticket.

From a business point of view this seems reasonable. The Guardian's

consumer rights champion quotes one balloon company as saying:

"the probability of taking your balloon flight on your first attempt,
averaged over the whole of our operating areas in 2016, which as you
have experienced has not been a good year for weather for our
industry, is 29%.

Statistically this is a geometric progression, with 77% of passengers
flying by their fifth attempt, and three out of 3,000 passengers
flown so far this year taking 20 attempts - such is the nature of
probability."

<https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/sep/25/balloon-adventures-flights -cancelled-no-refund>

If cancellations and refunds are important then there's bad weather
insurance for such flights but it's likely to be expensive.

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On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:33:17 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:

A couple of years ago, our children bought us a hot air balloon flight
for our golden anniversary. We have already booked the flight on three >occasions which have been cancelled due to adverse weather. The first
two times, the flight was postponed the previous day, on the third
time we actually got as far as unfurling the balloon on the take-off
field but they had to cancel at the last minute as some dark clouds
gathered.

We are about to book for attempt for this July - our bookings have to
tie in with trips to visit our family in the UK(usually twice per
year) and if it gets cancelled this time, we will really have lost
interest in this and prefer to get a refund. In the company's T&C
however, it states that they will not give a refund until the flight
has been cancelled by them *seven* times.

Is this legally sustainable by them? It seems unfair in terms of
consumer protection where the general rule of thumb seems to be that
if a company cannot deliver the ordered items or if there is a fault
with them, they get one chance to put it right

Maybe worth pursuing the option of having the gift transferred to
someone who has more flexbility if it fails again.

Bear in mind they are incurring costs in attempting to get the flight
going and they are losing money when flights are cancelled.

Hopefully if you craft a nice letter explaining your circumstances
then you put the ball in a bit into their court.


--
AnthonyL

Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

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On 22/02/2024 12:48, AnthonyL wrote:

On Wed, 21 Feb 2024 15:33:17 +0000, Martin Harran
<martinharran@gmail.com> wrote:

<snipped>

A couple of years ago, our children bought us a hot air balloon flight
for our golden anniversary. We have already booked the flight on three
occasions which have been cancelled due to adverse weather.

...

In the company's T&C
however, it states that they will not give a refund until the flight
has been cancelled by them *seven* times.

Maybe worth pursuing the option of having the gift transferred to
someone who has more flexbility if it fails again.

If it can be transferred without any change to the T&Cs, the transferee
would benefit from the reduced number of cancellations remaining. It
should be worth more.

If it's non-transferable, what would be the position of any user
pretending to be you in the event of a 'rapid unscheduled disassembly'?

--
Cheers
Clive

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On 2024-02-22, Simon Parker wrote:

On 21/02/2024 15:33, Martin Harran wrote:

A couple of years ago, our children bought us a hot air balloon flight
for our golden anniversary. We have already booked the flight on three
occasions which have been cancelled due to adverse weather. The first
two times, the flight was postponed the previous day, on the third
time we actually got as far as unfurling the balloon on the take-off
field but they had to cancel at the last minute as some dark clouds
gathered.

We are about to book for attempt for this July - our bookings have to
tie in with trips to visit our family in the UK(usually twice per
year) and if it gets cancelled this time, we will really have lost
interest in this and prefer to get a refund. In the company's T&C
however, it states that they will not give a refund until the flight
has been cancelled by them *seven* times.

Is this legally sustainable by them? It seems unfair in terms of
consumer protection where the general rule of thumb seems to be that
if a company cannot deliver the ordered items or if there is a fault
with them, they get one chance to put it right

The first likely hurdle to overcome is that *you* may not be entitled to anything. IME, enterprises offering "experiences" like this are usually structured as two separate entities, lets call them "The Balloon Gift
Voucher Selling Company Limited" (seller) and "The Balloon Gift Voucher Fulfilment Company Limited" (service provider).

Am I being too cynical in thinking that this separation of entities is
designed to make accountability difficult, or are there legitimate
reasons for it?

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