From The Times today:
A judge threw out charges against Greta Thunberg and four other
activists after finding that police had attempted to impose “unlawful” conditions during an environmental protest.
The Swedish climate change activist, 21, was arrested for demonstrating outside the InterContinental London hotel on Park Lane on October 17,
where heads of the world’s largest oil and gas companies were gathering
for the annual Energy Intelligence Forum.
Thunberg, two Fossil Free London (FFL) protesters and two Greenpeace activists had pleaded not guilty to breaching Section 14 of the Public
Order Act 1986, which allows the police to impose conditions on public assemblies deemed necessary to prevent serious disruption.
District Judge John Law found that the condition placed on the
demonstration was “so unclear that it was unlawful” and that those who did not comply committed no offence.
Law also found there was insufficient evidence that the protest was
causing serious disruption, as the entrance to the hotel had been
cleared by the time of the arrests, rendering the condition “unnecessary”.
unquote
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the
government expects the police to protect the interests of the big oil
and gas companies, but the courts are still independent.
From The Times today:
A judge threw out charges against Greta Thunberg and four other
activists after finding that police had attempted to impose “unlawful” conditions during an environmental protest.
The Swedish climate change activist, 21, was arrested for demonstrating outside the InterContinental London hotel on Park Lane on October 17,
where heads of the world’s largest oil and gas companies were gathering
for the annual Energy Intelligence Forum.
Thunberg, two Fossil Free London (FFL) protesters and two Greenpeace activists had pleaded not guilty to breaching Section 14 of the Public
Order Act 1986, which allows the police to impose conditions on public assemblies deemed necessary to prevent serious disruption.
District Judge John Law found that the condition placed on the
demonstration was “so unclear that it was unlawful” and that those who did not comply committed no offence.
Law also found there was insufficient evidence that the protest was
causing serious disruption, as the entrance to the hotel had been
cleared by the time of the arrests, rendering the condition “unnecessary”.
unquote
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the
government expects the police to protect the interests of the big oil
and gas companies, but the courts are still independent.
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators
will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government expects the police to
protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies, but the courts are still
independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the police -
and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who are trying to go
about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
From The Times today:
A judge threw out charges against Greta Thunberg and four other
activists after finding that police had attempted to impose “unlawful” >> conditions during an environmental protest.
The Swedish climate change activist, 21, was arrested for
demonstrating outside the InterContinental London hotel on Park Lane
on October 17, where heads of the world’s largest oil and gas
companies were gathering for the annual Energy Intelligence Forum.
Thunberg, two Fossil Free London (FFL) protesters and two Greenpeace
activists had pleaded not guilty to breaching Section 14 of the Public
Order Act 1986, which allows the police to impose conditions on public
assemblies deemed necessary to prevent serious disruption.
District Judge John Law found that the condition placed on the
demonstration was “so unclear that it was unlawful” and that those who >> did not comply committed no offence.
Law also found there was insufficient evidence that the protest was
causing serious disruption, as the entrance to the hotel had been
cleared by the time of the arrests, rendering the condition
“unnecessary”.
unquote
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of
demonstrators will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the
government expects the police to protect the interests of the big oil
and gas companies, but the courts are still independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government
expects the police - and the courts - to protect the interests of
ordinary citizens who are trying to go about their lawful business and
who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
[quoted text muted]
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government
expects the police - and the courts - to protect the interests of
ordinary citizens who are trying to go about their lawful business and
who in doing so, commit no offences.
"JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote in message news:l25hevF5gnrU6@mid.individual.net...
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators
will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government expects the police to
protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies, but the courts are still
independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the police -
and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who are trying to go
about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
Maybe for deniers,
quote:
Many issues that are settled in the scientific community, such as human responsibility for global warming, remain the subject of politically or economically motivated attempts to downplay, dismiss or deny them-
an ideological phenomenon academics and scientists call climate
change denial. Climate scientists, especially in the United States, have reported government and oil-industry pressure to censor or suppress their work
:unquote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
Or are happy to leave it as something for their children or grandchildren
to worry about.
Whereas Thunberg is claiming that ALL of these "ordinary people" of
yours are going to be the victims;
Apart from some billionaires who've either managed to set up a colony on
the Moon - along with Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and hopefully Branson
or on an Island somewhere like James Bond villains.
On 03/02/2024 00:59, JNugent wrote:
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
From The Times today:
A judge threw out charges against Greta Thunberg and four other activists >>> after finding that police had attempted to impose “unlawful” conditions >>> during an environmental protest.
The Swedish climate change activist, 21, was arrested for demonstrating
outside the InterContinental London hotel on Park Lane on October 17, where >>> heads of the world’s largest oil and gas companies were gathering for the >>> annual Energy Intelligence Forum.
Thunberg, two Fossil Free London (FFL) protesters and two Greenpeace
activists had pleaded not guilty to breaching Section 14 of the Public Order
Act 1986, which allows the police to impose conditions on public assemblies >>> deemed necessary to prevent serious disruption.
District Judge John Law found that the condition placed on the demonstration
was “so unclear that it was unlawful” and that those who did not comply >>> committed no offence.
Law also found there was insufficient evidence that the protest was causing >>> serious disruption, as the entrance to the hotel had been cleared by the time
of the arrests, rendering the condition “unnecessary”.
unquote
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of
demonstrators will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government >>> expects the police to protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies,
but the courts are still independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the
police - and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who >> are trying to go about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no >> offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
quotes
“It is quite striking to me that there were no witness statements taken from
anyone in the hotel,
in,” the district judge said. “There was no evidence of any vehicles being
impeded, no evidence of any interference with emergency services, or any risk to
life.”
The condition imposed on protesters to move to a nearby location was “becoming
increasingly garbled and confused as it was passed on from officer to officer”,
he continued, adding that protesters had also not been given sufficient time to
comply.
The officer who arrested Thunberg said he had told her to move to “Piccadilly
Place”, a location that does not exist in London.
[District Judge] Law said that the protest was “throughout peaceful, civilised
and non-violent” and criticised evidence provided by the prosecution about the
location of where the demonstrators should be moved to, saying the only helpful
footage he received was “made by an abseiling protester”.
He added that “excellent soundproofing” had also “diminished the extent of
intrusion”.
"JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote in message news:l25hevF5gnrU6@mid.individual.net...
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators
will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government expects the police to
protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies, but the courts are still
independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the police -
and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who are trying to go
about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
Maybe for deniers
quote:
Many issues that are settled in the scientific community, such as human responsibility for global warming
remain the subject of politically or
economically motivated attempts to downplay, dismiss or deny them-
an ideological phenomenon academics and scientists call climate
change denial. Climate scientists, especially in the United States, have reported government and oil-industry pressure to censor or suppress their work
:unquote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
Or are happy to leave it as something for their children or grandchildren
to worry about.
Whereas Thunberg is claiming that ALL of these "ordinary people" of
yours are going to be the victims;
Apart from some billionaires who've either managed to set up a colony on
the Moon - along with Elon Musk, Mark Zuckerberg, and hopefully Branson
or on an Island somewhere like James Bond villains.
On 03/02/2024 10:16 am, billy bookcase wrote:
Whereas Thunberg is claiming that ALL of these "ordinary people" of
yours are going to be the victims;
It doesn't even matter whether she is wrong on that.
She does not have the right to commit offences against other people.
The Maldives were forecast to be under water by 2015. How did that work
out?
On 03/02/2024 00:59, JNugent wrote:
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
From The Times today:
A judge threw out charges against Greta Thunberg and four other
activists after finding that police had attempted to impose
“unlawful” conditions during an environmental protest.
The Swedish climate change activist, 21, was arrested for
demonstrating outside the InterContinental London hotel on Park Lane
on October 17, where heads of the world’s largest oil and gas
companies were gathering for the annual Energy Intelligence Forum.
Thunberg, two Fossil Free London (FFL) protesters and two Greenpeace
activists had pleaded not guilty to breaching Section 14 of the
Public Order Act 1986, which allows the police to impose conditions
on public assemblies deemed necessary to prevent serious disruption.
District Judge John Law found that the condition placed on the
demonstration was “so unclear that it was unlawful” and that those
who did not comply committed no offence.
Law also found there was insufficient evidence that the protest was
causing serious disruption, as the entrance to the hotel had been
cleared by the time of the arrests, rendering the condition
“unnecessary”.
unquote
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of
demonstrators will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the
government expects the police to protect the interests of the big oil
and gas companies, but the courts are still independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government
expects the police - and the courts - to protect the interests of
ordinary citizens who are trying to go about their lawful business and
who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
quotes
“It is quite striking to me that there were no witness statements taken from anyone in the hotel, approximately 1,000 people, or from anyone
trying to get in,” the district judge said. “There was no evidence of
any vehicles being impeded, no evidence of any interference with
emergency services, or any risk to life.”
The condition imposed on protesters to move to a nearby location was “becoming increasingly garbled and confused as it was passed on from officer to officer”, he continued, adding that protesters had also not
been given sufficient time to comply.
The officer who arrested Thunberg said he had told her to move to “Piccadilly Place”, a location that does not exist in London.
[District Judge] Law said that the protest was “throughout peaceful, civilised and non-violent” and criticised evidence provided by the prosecution about the location of where the demonstrators should be
moved to, saying the only helpful footage he received was “made by an abseiling protester”.
He added that “excellent soundproofing” had also “diminished the extent of intrusion”.
The judge said he would grant defence lawyer Raj Chada’s request for the government to pay his legal fees and Thunberg’s travel costs.
On Saturday 3 February 2024 at 16:16:42 UTC, JNugent wrote:
On 03/02/2024 10:16 am, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnug...@mail.com> wrote in message news:l25hev...@mid.individual.net...What has that to do with anything?
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators
will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government expects the police to
protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies, but the courts are still
independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the police -
and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who are trying to go
about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
Maybe for deniers,
You don't have to be a "climate denier" (whatever that might be) to
suffer harm when held in a four hour traffic jam on M25.
So what?
quote:
Many issues that are settled in the scientific community, such as human
responsibility for global warming, remain the subject of politically or
economically motivated attempts to downplay, dismiss or deny them-
an ideological phenomenon academics and scientists call climate
change denial. Climate scientists, especially in the United States, have >>> reported government and oil-industry pressure to censor or suppress their >>> work
:unquote
That does not grant eco-loonies the right to commit criminal offences.
It doesn't even matter whether she is wrong on that.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
Or are happy to leave it as something for their children or grandchildren >>> to worry about.
Whereas Thunberg is claiming that ALL of these "ordinary people" of
yours are going to be the victims;
She does not have the right to commit offences against other people.
But she hasn't committed any offences? That's rather the point of the
story. She was going about her lawful business, if you will.
"Spike" <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote in message news:l26uffFdb1rU1@mid.individual.net...
The Maldives were forecast to be under water by 2015. How did that work
out?
By whom ?
On 03/02/2024 06:34 pm, billy bookcase wrote:
"Spike" <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
The Maldives were forecast to be under water by 2015. How did that work out?
By whom ?
Oh, what's the latest prophecy for the Maldives?
Has it been amended?
JNugent <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:
On 03/02/2024 06:34 pm, billy bookcase wrote:
"Spike" <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
The Maldives were forecast to be under water by 2015. How did that work out?
By whom ?
Oh, what's the latest prophecy for the Maldives?
Has it been amended?
In the usual manner of climate believers and alarmists, the date for
flooding of the Maldives has been pushed back to the latter half of this century, the original forecast (by the French in a 1988 report) of 2015
"Spike" <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote in message news:l293t2FpalgU1@mid.individual.net...
JNugent <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:
On 03/02/2024 06:34 pm, billy bookcase wrote:
"Spike" <aero.spike@mail.com> wrote:
The Maldives were forecast to be under water by 2015. How did that work out?
By whom ?
Oh, what's the latest prophecy for the Maldives?
Has it been amended?
In the usual manner of climate believers and alarmists, the date for
flooding of the Maldives has been pushed back to the latter half of this
century, the original forecast (by the French in a 1988 report) of 2015
Link ?
I don'[t doubt there is one, the US and UK not enjoying a monopoly on crackpots.
Only I can't find it.
"JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote in message news:l25hevF5gnrU6@mid.individual.net...
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators
will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government expects the police to
protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies, but the courts are still
independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the police -
and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who are trying to go
about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
Maybe for deniers,
quote:
Many issues that are settled in the scientific community, such as human responsibility for global warming, remain the subject of politically or economically motivated attempts to downplay, dismiss or deny them-
an ideological phenomenon academics and scientists call climate
change denial. Climate scientists, especially in the United States, have reported government and oil-industry pressure to censor or suppress their work
:unquote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
On 2024-02-03, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote in message news:l25hevF5gnrU6@mid.individual.net...
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators
will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government expects the police to
protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies, but the courts are still
independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the police -
and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who are trying to go
about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
Maybe for deniers,
quote:
Many issues that are settled in the scientific community, such as human
responsibility for global warming, remain the subject of politically or
economically motivated attempts to downplay, dismiss or deny them-
an ideological phenomenon academics and scientists call climate
change denial. Climate scientists, especially in the United States, have
reported government and oil-industry pressure to censor or suppress their
work
:unquote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
I listened to a good podcast recently about "Weaponizing Uncertainty".
<https://www.vox.com/unexplainable> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ws-znsx7zChWr-Hrx_D2kMT5rSnStvFOZhdmU-LAnow/edit#heading=h.6mizxwtjqtdz>
In particular, it discussed the way oil companies have been
undermining public understanding of the science, including by abusing journalists into giving "equal time" to the small minority of denier scientists to make people think it's still up in the air.
On 03/02/2024 12:33 pm, The Todal wrote:
On 03/02/2024 00:59, JNugent wrote:
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
From The Times today:
A judge threw out charges against Greta Thunberg and four other
activists after finding that police had attempted to impose
“unlawful” conditions during an environmental protest.
The Swedish climate change activist, 21, was arrested for
demonstrating outside the InterContinental London hotel on Park Lane
on October 17, where heads of the world’s largest oil and gas
companies were gathering for the annual Energy Intelligence Forum.
Thunberg, two Fossil Free London (FFL) protesters and two Greenpeace
activists had pleaded not guilty to breaching Section 14 of the
Public Order Act 1986, which allows the police to impose conditions
on public assemblies deemed necessary to prevent serious disruption.
District Judge John Law found that the condition placed on the
demonstration was “so unclear that it was unlawful” and that those >>>> who did not comply committed no offence.
Law also found there was insufficient evidence that the protest was
causing serious disruption, as the entrance to the hotel had been
cleared by the time of the arrests, rendering the condition
“unnecessary”.
unquote
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of
demonstrators will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the
government expects the police to protect the interests of the big oil
and gas companies, but the courts are still independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government
expects the police - and the courts - to protect the interests of
ordinary citizens who are trying to go about their lawful business and
who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
quotes
“It is quite striking to me that there were no witness statements taken
from anyone in the hotel, approximately 1,000 people, or from anyone
trying to get in,” the district judge said. “There was no evidence of
any vehicles being impeded, no evidence of any interference with
emergency services, or any risk to life.”
The condition imposed on protesters to move to a nearby location was
“becoming increasingly garbled and confused as it was passed on from
officer to officer”, he continued, adding that protesters had also not
been given sufficient time to comply.
The officer who arrested Thunberg said he had told her to move to
“Piccadilly Place”, a location that does not exist in London.
[District Judge] Law said that the protest was “throughout peaceful,
civilised and non-violent” and criticised evidence provided by the
prosecution about the location of where the demonstrators should be
moved to, saying the only helpful footage he received was “made by an
abseiling protester”.
He added that “excellent soundproofing” had also “diminished the extent
of intrusion”.
The judge said he would grant defence lawyer Raj Chada’s request for the >> government to pay his legal fees and Thunberg’s travel costs.
So what?
Thunberg is still a perp and not a victim.
Ordinary people seeking to go about their lawful business, lawfully, but being prevented from doing so, are the victims.
"JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:
On 03/02/2024 12:33 pm, The Todal wrote:
On 03/02/2024 00:59, JNugent wrote:
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
From The Times today:
A judge threw out charges against Greta Thunberg and four other
activists after finding that police had attempted to impose
“unlawful” conditions during an environmental protest.
The Swedish climate change activist, 21, was arrested for
demonstrating outside the InterContinental London hotel on Park Lane >>>>> on October 17, where heads of the world’s largest oil and gas
companies were gathering for the annual Energy Intelligence Forum.
Thunberg, two Fossil Free London (FFL) protesters and two Greenpeace >>>>> activists had pleaded not guilty to breaching Section 14 of the
Public Order Act 1986, which allows the police to impose conditions
on public assemblies deemed necessary to prevent serious disruption. >>>>> District Judge John Law found that the condition placed on the
demonstration was “so unclear that it was unlawful” and that those >>>>> who did not comply committed no offence.
Law also found there was insufficient evidence that the protest was
causing serious disruption, as the entrance to the hotel had been
cleared by the time of the arrests, rendering the condition
“unnecessary”.
unquote
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of >>>>> demonstrators will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the
government expects the police to protect the interests of the big oil >>>>> and gas companies, but the courts are still independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government
expects the police - and the courts - to protect the interests of
ordinary citizens who are trying to go about their lawful business and >>>> who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
quotes
“It is quite striking to me that there were no witness statements taken >>> from anyone in the hotel, approximately 1,000 people, or from anyone
trying to get in,” the district judge said. “There was no evidence of >>> any vehicles being impeded, no evidence of any interference with
emergency services, or any risk to life.”
The condition imposed on protesters to move to a nearby location was
“becoming increasingly garbled and confused as it was passed on from
officer to officer”, he continued, adding that protesters had also not >>> been given sufficient time to comply.
The officer who arrested Thunberg said he had told her to move to
“Piccadilly Place”, a location that does not exist in London.
[District Judge] Law said that the protest was “throughout peaceful,
civilised and non-violent” and criticised evidence provided by the
prosecution about the location of where the demonstrators should be
moved to, saying the only helpful footage he received was “made by an
abseiling protester”.
He added that “excellent soundproofing” had also “diminished the extent
of intrusion”.
The judge said he would grant defence lawyer Raj Chada’s request for the >>> government to pay his legal fees and Thunberg’s travel costs.
So what?
Thunberg is still a perp and not a victim.
Ordinary people seeking to go about their lawful business, lawfully, but
being prevented from doing so, are the victims.
(Ignoring for a moment the particular topic of this protest), so your proposition is that the only legitimate behaviour of ordinary people is a Stahkanovite dedication to a brisk arrival at work and supporting the State by
production and daily loyalty oaths?
By definition, those who join political
protests are not "ordinary people" but "perpetrators" and ordinary people relinquish that status whenever they might choose to protest against their government?
Because political protests will "always" cause inconvenience to
ordinary people if only "ordinary" police or "ordinary" politicians.
So no "ordinary" person will protest because they will inconvenience others and become a criminal.
Had your worthy proposition been firmly enforced by the Soviet Communist Party
then we would still have the Soviet Union.
On 3 Feb 2024 at 18:32:24 GMT, "JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote:
On 03/02/2024 12:33 pm, The Todal wrote:
On 03/02/2024 00:59, JNugent wrote:
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
From The Times today:
A judge threw out charges against Greta Thunberg and four other
activists after finding that police had attempted to impose
“unlawful” conditions during an environmental protest.
The Swedish climate change activist, 21, was arrested for
demonstrating outside the InterContinental London hotel on Park Lane >>>>> on October 17, where heads of the world’s largest oil and gas
companies were gathering for the annual Energy Intelligence Forum.
Thunberg, two Fossil Free London (FFL) protesters and two Greenpeace >>>>> activists had pleaded not guilty to breaching Section 14 of the
Public Order Act 1986, which allows the police to impose conditions
on public assemblies deemed necessary to prevent serious disruption. >>>>>
District Judge John Law found that the condition placed on the
demonstration was “so unclear that it was unlawful” and that those >>>>> who did not comply committed no offence.
Law also found there was insufficient evidence that the protest was
causing serious disruption, as the entrance to the hotel had been
cleared by the time of the arrests, rendering the condition
“unnecessary”.
unquote
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of >>>>> demonstrators will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the
government expects the police to protect the interests of the big oil >>>>> and gas companies, but the courts are still independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government
expects the police - and the courts - to protect the interests of
ordinary citizens who are trying to go about their lawful business and >>>> who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
quotes
“It is quite striking to me that there were no witness statements taken >>> from anyone in the hotel, approximately 1,000 people, or from anyone
trying to get in,” the district judge said. “There was no evidence of >>> any vehicles being impeded, no evidence of any interference with
emergency services, or any risk to life.”
The condition imposed on protesters to move to a nearby location was
“becoming increasingly garbled and confused as it was passed on from
officer to officer”, he continued, adding that protesters had also not >>> been given sufficient time to comply.
The officer who arrested Thunberg said he had told her to move to
“Piccadilly Place”, a location that does not exist in London.
[District Judge] Law said that the protest was “throughout peaceful,
civilised and non-violent” and criticised evidence provided by the
prosecution about the location of where the demonstrators should be
moved to, saying the only helpful footage he received was “made by an
abseiling protester”.
He added that “excellent soundproofing” had also “diminished the extent
of intrusion”.
The judge said he would grant defence lawyer Raj Chada’s request for the >>> government to pay his legal fees and Thunberg’s travel costs.
So what?
Thunberg is still a perp and not a victim.
Ordinary people seeking to go about their lawful business, lawfully, but
being prevented from doing so, are the victims.
(Ignoring for a moment the particular topic of this protest), so your proposition is that the only legitimate behaviour of ordinary people is a Stahkanovite dedication to a brisk arrival at work and supporting the State by
production and daily loyalty oaths? By definition, those who join political protests are not "ordinary people" but "perpetrators" and ordinary people relinquish that status whenever they might choose to protest against their government? Because political protests will "always" cause inconvenience to ordinary people if only "ordinary" police or "ordinary" politicians.
So no "ordinary" person will protest because they will inconvenience others and become a criminal.
Had your worthy proposition been firmly enforced by the Soviet Communist Party
then we would still have the Soviet Union.
On 2024-02-03, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote in message news:l25hevF5gnrU6@mid.individual.net...
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators
will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government expects the police to
protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies, but the courts are still
independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the police -
and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who are trying to go
about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
Maybe for deniers,
quote:
Many issues that are settled in the scientific community, such as human
responsibility for global warming, remain the subject of politically or
economically motivated attempts to downplay, dismiss or deny them-
an ideological phenomenon academics and scientists call climate
change denial. Climate scientists, especially in the United States, have
reported government and oil-industry pressure to censor or suppress their
work
:unquote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
I listened to a good podcast recently about "Weaponizing Uncertainty".
<https://www.vox.com/unexplainable> <https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ws-znsx7zChWr-Hrx_D2kMT5rSnStvFOZhdmU-LAnow/edit#heading=h.6mizxwtjqtdz>
In particular, it discussed the way oil companies have been
undermining public understanding of the science, including by abusing journalists into giving "equal time" to the small minority of denier scientists to make people think it's still up in the air.
I'm surprised at the number of people who will happily accept
"These scientists make stuff up because it keeps them in a job."
yet somehow overlook the vested interests of the large, well funded, organisations which are impacted by the changes being made to reduce anthropogenic damage to the environment.
On 05-Feb-24 11:01, Adam Funk wrote:
On 2024-02-03, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote in message news:l25hevF5gnrU6@mid.individual.net...
On 02/02/2024 10:20 pm, The Todal wrote:
It is gratifying to see that police incompetence and the bullying of demonstrators
will not be tolerated by our courts. I daresay the government expects the police to
protect the interests of the big oil and gas companies, but the courts are still
independent.
On that last point, it's probably fair to say that the government expects the police -
and the courts - to protect the interests of ordinary citizens who are trying to go
about their lawful business and who in doing so, commit no offences.
THEY are the victims.
Thunberg is a perp.
Maybe for deniers,
quote:
Many issues that are settled in the scientific community, such as human
responsibility for global warming, remain the subject of politically or
economically motivated attempts to downplay, dismiss or deny them-
an ideological phenomenon academics and scientists call climate
change denial. Climate scientists, especially in the United States, have >>> reported government and oil-industry pressure to censor or suppress their >>> work
:unquote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change_denial
I listened to a good podcast recently about "Weaponizing Uncertainty".
<https://www.vox.com/unexplainable>
<https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ws-znsx7zChWr-Hrx_D2kMT5rSnStvFOZhdmU-LAnow/edit#heading=h.6mizxwtjqtdz>
In particular, it discussed the way oil companies have been
undermining public understanding of the science, including by abusing
journalists into giving "equal time" to the small minority of denier
scientists to make people think it's still up in the air.
I think they learned all these tactics from the Tobacco Lobby - and have improved on them.
I'm surprised at the number of people who will happily accept
"These scientists make stuff up because it keeps them in a job."
yet somehow overlook the vested interests of the large, well funded, organisations which are impacted by the changes being made to reduce anthropogenic damage to the environment.
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