Would the judgement of a recent crown court case be listed here?
<https://www.bailii.org/recent-decisions.html>
I want to read the case of Sam Melia, who was found guilty on 24th January
of distributing hate stickers. The CPS describe this case here.
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/far-right-organiser-found-guilty-intent-
stir-racial-hatred-through-distribution-stickers>
Where can I find it?
Would the judgement of a recent crown court case be listed here?
<https://www.bailii.org/recent-decisions.html>
I want to read the case of Sam Melia, who was found guilty on 24th January
of distributing hate stickers. The CPS describe this case here.
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/far-right-organiser-found-guilty-intent-stir-racial-hatred-through-distribution-stickers>
Where can I find it?
On 30 Jan 2024 at 20:37:24 GMT, "Pamela" <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
Would the judgement of a recent crown court case be listed here?
<https://www.bailii.org/recent-decisions.html>
I want to read the case of Sam Melia, who was found guilty on 24th January >> of distributing hate stickers. The CPS describe this case here.
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/far-right-organiser-found-guilty-intent-stir-racial-hatred-through-distribution-stickers>
Where can I find it?
More information on the content of the stickers and how they were used and advertised, and the effect claimed for them, here:
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/jury-retires-consider-whether-stickers-28502530
On 30/01/2024 22:17, Roger Hayter wrote:
More information on the content of the stickers and how they were used and >> advertised, and the effect claimed for them, here:
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/jury-retires-consider-whether-stickers-28502530
Interesting article. The act just covers racial hatred, and not some
more common forms of hatred. Is Muslim/Islam a race?
I wonder if advocating light controlled pedestrian crossing should be >automatic on Saturdays should be construed as inciting racial hatred too?
On 2024-01-30, Pamela <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
Would the judgement of a recent crown court case be listed here?
<https://www.bailii.org/recent-decisions.html>
I want to read the case of Sam Melia, who was found guilty on 24th
January of distributing hate stickers. The CPS describe this case
here.
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/far-right-organiser-found-
guilty-intentstir-racial-hatred-through-distribution-stickers>
Where can I find it?
There is more information here:
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/sam-melia-guilty- publishing-stickers-28505094
If by "read the case" you mean a transcript of the trial, there
probably isn't one.
He'll be sentenced on March 1st and it's possible that the sentencing
remarks might be published, perhaps.
On 21:47 30 Jan 2024, Jon Ribbens said:
On 2024-01-30, Pamela <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
Would the judgement of a recent crown court case be listed here?
<https://www.bailii.org/recent-decisions.html>
I want to read the case of Sam Melia, who was found guilty on 24th
January of distributing hate stickers. The CPS describe this case
here.
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/far-right-organiser-found-
guilty-intentstir-racial-hatred-through-distribution-stickers>
Where can I find it?
There is more information here:
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/sam-melia-guilty-
publishing-stickers-28505094
If by "read the case" you mean a transcript of the trial, there
probably isn't one.
I'm not looking for a verbatim transcript of what was said in court.
That is too much to expect.
I'm interested to know how the judge applied the law in the Sam Melia
case.
I mean something similar to the following judgement (which happens to be about continuing NHS medical treatment).
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCOP/2023/40.html
He'll be sentenced on March 1st and it's possible that the sentencing
remarks might be published, perhaps.
I presume a judgement, if there is one, would have been published before then?
That said, whilst Crown Court cases do not appear either on BAILII or on
TNA, they are all recorded so you'll need pay for a transcript which I
will expect to be prohibitively expensive.
On 02/02/2024 19:42, Simon Parker wrote:
That said, whilst Crown Court cases do not appear either on BAILII or on TNA, they are
all recorded so you'll need pay for a transcript which I will expect to be >> prohibitively expensive.
Can one get hold of the recordings, and simply listen?
A machine transcription, whilst not very reliable, might be
vastly cheaper than a person doing it.
You may not be aware, but BAILII is a charity and operates on a skeleton >staff (mid-single digit FTE employees).
As a result, the number of cases on which they produce reports is
limited due to funding constraints.
It is further limited by the fact that they are restricted to the number
of cases they can report per year because of copyright restrictions on
the transcription notes taken in court.
Finally, BAILII lost the contract with the government in 2022 which was
a major source of their funding with the government deciding that case >reporting should be handled by The National Archives (TNA) "Find Case
Law" service instead. (https://caselaw.nationalarchives.gov.uk/)
On 02/02/2024 19:50, GB wrote:
On 02/02/2024 19:42, Simon Parker wrote:
That said, whilst Crown Court cases do not appear either on BAILII or
on TNA, they are all recorded so you'll need pay for a transcript
which I will expect to be prohibitively expensive.
Can one get hold of the recordings, and simply listen?
Absolutely not. It is considered that this is too open to abuse. One
may only obtain an official transcript of the recording and not the
recording itself.
A machine transcription, whilst not very reliable, might be vastly
cheaper than a person doing it.
As the audio recording is only available to selected transcribers, the
point is moot.
Regards
S.P.
On Thursday 1 February 2024 at 20:19:56 UTC, Pamela wrote:
On 21:47 30 Jan 2024, Jon Ribbens said:
On 2024-01-30, Pamela <uk...@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
Would the judgement of a recent crown court case be listed here?
<https://www.bailii.org/recent-decisions.html>
I want to read the case of Sam Melia, who was found guilty on 24th
January of distributing hate stickers. The CPS describe this case
here.
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/far-right-organiser-found-
guilty-intentstir-racial-hatred-through-distribution-stickers>
Where can I find it?
There is more information here:
https://www.leeds-live.co.uk/news/leeds-news/sam-melia-guilty-
publishing-stickers-28505094
If by "read the case" you mean a transcript of the trial, there
probably isn't one.
I'm not looking for a verbatim transcript of what was said in court.
That is too much to expect.
I'm interested to know how the judge applied the law in the Sam Melia
case.
I mean something similar to the following judgement (which happens to
be about continuing NHS medical treatment).
https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWCOP/2023/40.html
He'll be sentenced on March 1st and it's possible that theI presume a judgement, if there is one, would have been published
sentencing remarks might be published, perhaps.
before then?
The vast majority of cases are not "published" in any real sense. The
cases on Bailii and the like are reported on because they are legally
of interest, almost all are appeals, not from courts of first
instance. So generally for any sort of report you rely on the press.
The offender got quite a stiff sentence at 2 years. The CPS say this was
for "Publishing or distributing material intending to stir up racial
hatred" and "racially aggravated criminal damage".
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/updated-sentence-far-right-organiser-fou
n d-guilty-intent-stir-racial-hatred-through>
However, similar charges are not being brought against the more militant
and vociferous Palestinian supporters, some of whom will be monitored
under "Prevent" as potential terrorists, and who regularly display
messages containing far more extreme sentiments.
I quoted some of his stickers based on news reports on web sites.
They're not much different to messages on social media sites like
Twitter .
http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=170957261900
One thing about this case is the court heard about the accused beliefs
based on books and other possessions which he had in his house, rather
than decide the case strictly on his actions. Although it was a jury
trial, the judge would have been influential and said:
"I am quite sure that your mindset is that of a racist and a white
supremacist" and "You hold Nazi sympathies and you are an
anti-Semite."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-68448867
On 2024-03-04, Pamela <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
The offender got quite a stiff sentence at 2 years. The CPS say this
was for "Publishing or distributing material intending to stir up
racial hatred" and "racially aggravated criminal damage".
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/updated-sentence-far-right-
organiser-found-guilty-intent-stir-racial-hatred-through>
However, similar charges are not being brought against the more
militant and vociferous Palestinian supporters, some of whom will be
monitored under "Prevent" as potential terrorists, and who regularly
display messages containing far more extreme sentiments.
I quoted some of his stickers based on news reports on web sites.
They're not much different to messages on social media sites like
Twitter .
http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=170957261900
One thing about this case is the court heard about the accused
beliefs based on books and other possessions which he had in his
house, rather than decide the case strictly on his actions. Although
it was a jury trial, the judge would have been influential and said:
"I am quite sure that your mindset is that of a racist and a white
supremacist" and "You hold Nazi sympathies and you are an
anti-Semite."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-68448867
They had to look into his motivations to decide on the "racially
aggravated" bit. And the bloke had pictures of Hitler put up in his
house for god's sake. His stickers had messages explicitly targetting
Jews. Anyone complaining that the judge's comments were unreasonable
hasn't got a leg to stand on.
On 18:47 4 Mar 2024, Jon Ribbens said:
They had to look into his motivations to decide on the "racially
aggravated" bit. And the bloke had pictures of Hitler put up in his
house for god's sake. His stickers had messages explicitly targetting
Jews. Anyone complaining that the judge's comments were unreasonable
hasn't got a leg to stand on.
I have no time for fans of Hitler who often seem deeply disturbed.
Hitler was an evil man who wrought terrible destruction in Europe at the
cost millions of lives.
However it is surely not a crime to read his books or books about him
nor to have his poster on the wall. People are surely free to admire and believe his warped philosophy, no matter how misguided.
Not that the possession of a book proves one has "sympathies" for its contents. I would hope there was other evidence to support this interpretation. Even so, this is perilously close to a thought crime.
On 18:47 4 Mar 2024, Jon Ribbens said:
On 2024-03-04, Pamela <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:
The offender got quite a stiff sentence at 2 years. The CPS say this
was for "Publishing or distributing material intending to stir up
racial hatred" and "racially aggravated criminal damage".
<https://www.cps.gov.uk/cps/news/updated-sentence-far-right-
organiser-found-guilty-intent-stir-racial-hatred-through>
However, similar charges are not being brought against the more
militant and vociferous Palestinian supporters, some of whom will be
monitored under "Prevent" as potential terrorists, and who regularly
display messages containing far more extreme sentiments.
I quoted some of his stickers based on news reports on web sites.
They're not much different to messages on social media sites like
Twitter .
http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=170957261900
One thing about this case is the court heard about the accused
beliefs based on books and other possessions which he had in his
house, rather than decide the case strictly on his actions. Although
it was a jury trial, the judge would have been influential and said:
"I am quite sure that your mindset is that of a racist and a white
supremacist" and "You hold Nazi sympathies and you are an
anti-Semite."
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-leeds-68448867
They had to look into his motivations to decide on the "racially
aggravated" bit. And the bloke had pictures of Hitler put up in his
house for god's sake. His stickers had messages explicitly targetting
Jews. Anyone complaining that the judge's comments were unreasonable
hasn't got a leg to stand on.
I have no time for fans of Hitler who often seem deeply disturbed.
Hitler was an evil man who wrought terrible destruction in Europe at the
cost millions of lives.
However it is surely not a crime to read his books or books about him
nor to have his poster on the wall. People are surely free to admire and believe his warped philosophy, no matter how misguided.
Not that the possession of a book proves one has "sympathies" for its contents. I would hope there was other evidence to support this interpretation. Even so, this is perilously close to a thought crime.
It's hard to see how anyone can feasibly exercise any level of source-criticism
over "...Kampf" unless they've read it (truely, 'tis turgid stuff).
"JNugent" <jnugent97@mail.com> wrote in message news:l4rdp9Fqjv2U1@mid.individual.net...
It's hard to see how anyone can feasibly exercise any level of source-criticism
over "...Kampf" unless they've read it (truely, 'tis turgid stuff).
As has been noted before, tisn't. Not all of it anyway.
Leastwise chapter Six
Added words in square brackets
selected quotes:
The function of propaganda [advertising} does not lie in the scientific training
of the individual, but in calling the masses' attention to certain facts, processes,necessities, etc., whose significance is thus for the first time placed
within their field of vision.
All propaganda [mass-market advertising]must be popular and its intellectual level
must be adjusted to the most limited intelligence among those it is addressed to.
Consequently, the greater the mass it is intended to reach, the lower its purely
intellectual level will have to be.
The more modest its intellectual ballast, the more exclusively it takes into consideration the emotions of the masses, the more effective it will be. And this is the best proof of the soundness or unsoundness of a propaganda [advertising]
campaign, and not success pleasing a few scholars or young aesthetes.
The receptivity of the great masses is very limited, their intelligence is small,
but their power of forgetting is enormous. In consequence of these facts, all effective
propaganda [advertising] must be limited to a very few points and must harp on these
in slogans until the last member of the public understands what you want him to
understand by your slogan.
unquote
Source: Adolf Hitler, Mein Kampf,translated by Ralph Manheim. Boston: Houghton Mifflin
Company, 1943.
https://fcit.usf.edu/holocaust/people/DocPropa.htm
Its maybe worth noting that the above, along with a number of other helpful "tips" was
written in 1925.
Basically if AH had got himself a job with an advertising agency he could maybe have
put his talents to better use flogging washing powder or the German equivalent of
Coca Cola, made himself a fortune into the bargain, and avoided invading Russia,
Oh and the above paragraphs are prefaced by the statement
" His statements offer insight into the methods used by the Nazi Party." "Methods use by the Nazi Party"....er right.
Marx was little better. His economic examples were largely personal assumption and
positing.
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