On 24/01/2024 20:26, Sevensistersestates Services wrote:

Hi,

I hope someone can help! I am based in London in the UK. The probate Registrar appointed an administrator for my dad's estate. The
administrator (a large firm of solicitors) assigned an individual to administer the estate. It transpires that the person is engaged in
fraud involving the house of my late dad. I want to get the probate
registrar to take a look at the person as it was the probate
registrar who appointed the administrator in the first place. What do
I say to the probate registrar to get them to take a look at things?

You are making a very serious allegation there. The large firm isn't
likely to react well to such a claim even if it were true.

I suggest you tone it down when speaking to the Probate office or you
will have even more problems. Whilst solicitors fees for administering
an estate can be somewhat extortionate they are usually pretty good at it.

What specifically do you think has gone wrong? He shouldn't be able to
do anything much regarding the house until probate has been granted.
Why do you suspect fraud? Expressing concern to the probate office about whatever aspect you think is awry would be one way of approaching it.

If you are a beneficiary then you are entitled to see a set of the
accounts (and should have a rough idea of his assets anyway).

How do I get the PR to take me seriously? I have a lot of proof.

What *you* think is proof may not be convincing to *them*.

You probably need proper legal advice from an independent solicitor that specialises in probate law. Houses in London are quite valuable so you
need proper advice to resolve this if the fraud you suspect is correct
(or to avoid getting yourself into serious trouble if you are misguided
and incorrectly libel a solicitor).

Advice that you get for free on the internet may be worth less than you
have paid for it!

--
Martin Brown

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On 25/01/2024 11:49, Simon Parker wrote:

On 24/01/2024 20:26, Sevensistersestates Services wrote:

Hi,

I hope someone can help! I am based in London in the UK. The probate
Registrar appointed an administrator for my dad's estate. The
administrator (a large firm of solicitors) assigned an individual to
administer the estate. It transpires that the person  is engaged in
fraud involving the house of my late dad. I want to get the probate
registrar to take a look at the person as it was the probate registrar
who appointed the administrator in the first place. What do I say to
the probate registrar to get them to take a look at things? How do I
get the PR to take me seriously? I have a lot of proof.

Thanks for reading.

Given the sums likely to be involved, I would consider it beneficial to obtain the advice of someone knowledgeable and independent prior to proceeding so I would recommend it to be worthwhile to contact a
solicitor that specialises in probate, explain the situation to them,
show them the evidence you have, and see what their opinion is before
doing anything else.

Having obtained their advice, I recommend following it.

+1

However, if you wish to proceed without such advice, in the first
instance, I would recommend contacting the person handling the
administration and ask them to clarify anything about which you are not
clear or where you think errors have been made.

It may be that there are reasons of which you are unaware that explain
their acts of omission / commission and they may be able to explain it
to you in a conversation.

Indeed. Some things are not at all obvious at the outse. Like the extra complications in selling a house that has never appeared on the
electronic land registry for instance.

I would recommend at this stage that you do not make them aware of your allegations of fraud, regardless of whether or not you think you have
proof.

Ask questions and seek clarification on the matters about which you are unsure or where you think errors have been made.

Having done that, if you are not satisfied or still have reservations
about their conduct, I recommend contacting the partner responsible for complaints at the firm handling the administration and ask them to look
into the matter for you.

Can he do that if the firm of solicitors has been appointed directly by
the probate office? I thought that a solicitor was only responsible for
their actions to whoever engaged them to do a particular piece of work.

The next point of escalation would be to the Probate Registry directly,
but I would strongly recommend exhausting the above two avenues first.

In the first instance, if you want advice about the matter, I'd
telephone them then follow that up with an e-mail.

The telephone number for HMTCS Probate is: 0300 303 0648

The e-mail address to use is contactprobate@justice.gov.uk

You are making serious allegations so I would recommend organising your thoughts prior to making any contact with anyone and having your
evidence at hand and organised in order when contacting the respective parties.

And not making any rash allegations that you cannot prove in a court of
law since it will invariably come to that if you make such claims.

Asking a few pertinent questions and keeping contemporaneous notes of
who said what and when is the way to play this sort of thing but the OP
really needs to have someone else who knows the legal system look at his "evidence" first and find out what they think of it. The OP is too close
to the situation and seemingly already made his mind up about it.

You don't call administrators or executors crooked without having some
very good evidence to back it up - especially if they are solicitors.

--
Martin Brown

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Sevensistersestates Services <sevensistersestates1@gmail.com> wrote:

Hi,

I hope someone can help! I am based in London in the UK. The probate Registrar appointed an administrator for my dad's estate.

Was there a will? Did it nominate an executor and if so who? Are you a named beneficiary? Has probate been granted, or if there was no will, letters of administration?


The administrator (a large firm of solicitors) assigned an individual to administer the estate. It transpires that the person is engaged in fraud involving the house of my late dad.

What is your evidence for this? Is the indivisdual an employee or partner of the firm? How far has the administration progressed?

I want to get the probate registrar to take a look at the person as it was the probate registrar who appointed the administrator in the first place. What do I say to the probate registrar to get them to take a look at things?

You may be able to lodge a caveat against probate if it hasn't yet been granted.

How do I get the PR to take me seriously? I have a lot of proof.

In which case the police should take an interest.

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On 25/01/2024 11:15, Martin Brown wrote:

On 24/01/2024 20:26, Sevensistersestates Services wrote:

Hi,

I hope someone can help! I am based in London in the UK. The probate
Registrar appointed an administrator for my dad's estate. The
administrator (a large firm of solicitors) assigned an individual to
administer the estate. It transpires that the person  is engaged in
fraud involving the house of my late dad. I want to get the probate
registrar to take a look at the person as it was the probate
registrar who appointed the administrator in the first place. What do
I say to the probate registrar to get them to take a look at things?

I think several things need clarifying here:

Firstly why has the Probate Office appointed a solicitor in the first
place? This is not normal.

Secondly, what do you think is actually going wrong?

If there is actually fraud going on the SRA might be a better place to
complain about a solicitor's conduct, but be sure this is the case and
you are not just misunderstanding the situation..

Jeff

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On 26/01/2024 08:52, Jeff wrote:

On 25/01/2024 11:15, Martin Brown wrote:

On 24/01/2024 20:26, Sevensistersestates Services wrote:

Hi,

I hope someone can help! I am based in London in the UK. The probate
Registrar appointed an administrator for my dad's estate. The
administrator (a large firm of solicitors) assigned an individual to
administer the estate. It transpires that the person  is engaged in
fraud involving the house of my late dad. I want to get the probate
registrar to take a look at the person as it was the probate
registrar who appointed the administrator in the first place. What do
I say to the probate registrar to get them to take a look at things?

I think several things need clarifying here:

Firstly why has the Probate Office appointed a solicitor in the first
place? This is not normal.

Secondly, what do you think is actually going wrong?

If there is actually fraud going on the SRA might be a better place to complain about a solicitor's conduct, but be sure this is the case and
you are not just misunderstanding the situation..

You are supposed to go through the practice's internal complaints
procedures first (typically a senior partner) before you approach the
SRA. However, who is *their* client here might be a sticking point.

If the situation is as described then I think the solicitor answers to
the authority that appointed him to do the job which if the OP is
stating the situation correctly was the Probate office. I agree this
seems to me highly unusual and suggests that there was no Will and/or no executors or relatives willing to take on the task of administration.

It might help the OP to try an explain to us what he thinks is going
wrong in specific terms rather than using such judgemental language.

--
Martin Brown

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On 26 Jan 2024 at 09:55:04 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 26/01/2024 08:52, Jeff wrote:

On 25/01/2024 11:15, Martin Brown wrote:

On 24/01/2024 20:26, Sevensistersestates Services wrote:

Hi,

I hope someone can help! I am based in London in the UK. The probate
Registrar appointed an administrator for my dad's estate. The
administrator (a large firm of solicitors) assigned an individual to
administer the estate. It transpires that the person is engaged in
fraud involving the house of my late dad. I want to get the probate
registrar to take a look at the person as it was the probate
registrar who appointed the administrator in the first place. What do
I say to the probate registrar to get them to take a look at things?

I think several things need clarifying here:

Firstly why has the Probate Office appointed a solicitor in the first
place? This is not normal.

Secondly, what do you think is actually going wrong?

If there is actually fraud going on the SRA might be a better place to
complain about a solicitor's conduct, but be sure this is the case and
you are not just misunderstanding the situation..

You are supposed to go through the practice's internal complaints
procedures first (typically a senior partner) before you approach the
SRA. However, who is *their* client here might be a sticking point.

If the situation is as described then I think the solicitor answers to
the authority that appointed him to do the job which if the OP is
stating the situation correctly was the Probate office. I agree this
seems to me highly unusual and suggests that there was no Will and/or no executors or relatives willing to take on the task of administration.

It might help the OP to try an explain to us what he thinks is going
wrong in specific terms rather than using such judgemental language.

Surely if the solicitor is appointed as administrator of a (presumably intestate) person's estate they have all the normal responsibilities to the estate and potential beneficiaries that an executor would have? And that applies whoever appointed them.

Parenthetcally, if one of the relatives had applied to administer the estate then the probate office might have appointed them, subject to various considerations.



--
Roger Hayter

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On 26 Jan 2024 at 12:14:37 GMT, "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote:

On 26 Jan 2024 at 09:55:04 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

On 26/01/2024 08:52, Jeff wrote:

On 25/01/2024 11:15, Martin Brown wrote:

On 24/01/2024 20:26, Sevensistersestates Services wrote:

Hi,

I hope someone can help! I am based in London in the UK. The probate >>>>> Registrar appointed an administrator for my dad's estate. The
administrator (a large firm of solicitors) assigned an individual to >>>>> administer the estate. It transpires that the person is engaged in
fraud involving the house of my late dad. I want to get the probate
registrar to take a look at the person as it was the probate
registrar who appointed the administrator in the first place. What do >>>>> I say to the probate registrar to get them to take a look at things?

I think several things need clarifying here:

Firstly why has the Probate Office appointed a solicitor in the first
place? This is not normal.

Secondly, what do you think is actually going wrong?

If there is actually fraud going on the SRA might be a better place to
complain about a solicitor's conduct, but be sure this is the case and
you are not just misunderstanding the situation..

You are supposed to go through the practice's internal complaints
procedures first (typically a senior partner) before you approach the
SRA. However, who is *their* client here might be a sticking point.

If the situation is as described then I think the solicitor answers to
the authority that appointed him to do the job which if the OP is
stating the situation correctly was the Probate office. I agree this
seems to me highly unusual and suggests that there was no Will and/or no
executors or relatives willing to take on the task of administration.

It might help the OP to try an explain to us what he thinks is going
wrong in specific terms rather than using such judgemental language.

Surely if the solicitor is appointed as administrator of a (presumably intestate) person's estate they have all the normal responsibilities to the estate and potential beneficiaries that an executor would have? And that applies whoever appointed them.

Parenthetcally, if one of the relatives had applied to administer the estate then the probate office might have appointed them, subject to various considerations.

And, I forgot to say, it will be the estate paying their fees, not the probate office.

--
Roger Hayter

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On 26/01/2024 12:51, Roger Hayter wrote:

On 26 Jan 2024 at 12:14:37 GMT, "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote:

On 26 Jan 2024 at 09:55:04 GMT, "Martin Brown" <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> >> wrote:

On 26/01/2024 08:52, Jeff wrote:

On 25/01/2024 11:15, Martin Brown wrote:

On 24/01/2024 20:26, Sevensistersestates Services wrote:

Hi,

I hope someone can help! I am based in London in the UK. The probate >>>>>> Registrar appointed an administrator for my dad's estate. The
administrator (a large firm of solicitors) assigned an individual to >>>>>> administer the estate. It transpires that the person is engaged in >>>>>> fraud involving the house of my late dad. I want to get the probate >>>>>> registrar to take a look at the person as it was the probate
registrar who appointed the administrator in the first place. What do >>>>>> I say to the probate registrar to get them to take a look at things? >>>>>

I think several things need clarifying here:

Firstly why has the Probate Office appointed a solicitor in the first
place? This is not normal.

Secondly, what do you think is actually going wrong?

If there is actually fraud going on the SRA might be a better place to >>>> complain about a solicitor's conduct, but be sure this is the case and >>>> you are not just misunderstanding the situation..

You are supposed to go through the practice's internal complaints
procedures first (typically a senior partner) before you approach the
SRA. However, who is *their* client here might be a sticking point.

If the situation is as described then I think the solicitor answers to
the authority that appointed him to do the job which if the OP is
stating the situation correctly was the Probate office. I agree this
seems to me highly unusual and suggests that there was no Will and/or no >>> executors or relatives willing to take on the task of administration.

It might help the OP to try an explain to us what he thinks is going
wrong in specific terms rather than using such judgemental language.

Surely if the solicitor is appointed as administrator of a (presumably
intestate) person's estate they have all the normal responsibilities to the >> estate and potential beneficiaries that an executor would have? And that
applies whoever appointed them.

They have to do the job of executor/administrator diligently but they
were not appointed by the beneficiaries but by the probate office. The beneficiaries can complain later if the work is done badly but whilst it
is work in progress I don't see there is all that much they can do. The
firm will have to provide proper accounts in due course and explain
their actions. But they are not obliged to provide a running commentary.

Parenthetcally, if one of the relatives had applied to administer the estate >> then the probate office might have appointed them, subject to various
considerations.

And, I forgot to say, it will be the estate paying their fees, not the probate
office.

Indeed but the solicitors are still answerable first to whomever signed
their letter of engagement (at least that is how I see it). Perhaps
someone more experienced can enlighten me why this is a special case.


--
Martin Brown

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