A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find the
need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to find
out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They probably
don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well have a
speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip reading.
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find
the need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to
find out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They
probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well
have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip
reading.
I find the question difficult to follow, really.
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there. There
would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no question about
legal responsibilities.
So, I'm wondering whether there is a complicated family history behind
the OP which makes it necessary to go beyond simply being nice to the
people attending?
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or
cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't, then there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything, although that doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
There is a case on this https://www.bailii.org/ew/cases/EWHC/Admin/2021/2108.pdf which concluded
that a BSL interpreter should have been provided, but that was in the
context of the COVID briefings, a matter of national importance being broadcast to the whole nation.
It is interesting that that was judged to be necessary despite the BBC providing subtitles.
To be sure that anyone has a legal responsibility iro an ordinary
funeral (ordinary, as in not the late Queen, say), you would need to
find a higher court judgment to that effect relating to a similar event.
I very much doubt there is one.
Clearly, in the context of a single ordinary funeral, it would not make
sense to launch proceedings about this. Apart from the legal costs
vastly exceeding the cost of a BSL interpreter, the funeral would take
place long before the case could be heard. Maybe, somebody will bring
such a case, simply to set a precedent, although there's a risk that the judgment would not go the way they want.
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or
cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find the
need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to find
out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They probably
don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well have a
speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip reading.
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find
the need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to
find out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They
probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well
have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip
reading.
I find the question difficult to follow, really.
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there. There
would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no question about
legal responsibilities.
So, I'm wondering whether there is a complicated family history behind
the OP which makes it necessary to go beyond simply being nice to the
people attending?
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or
cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
Supply a printed copy of the service.
On 18/01/2024 16:02, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find
the need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to
find out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They
probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well
have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip
reading.
I find the question difficult to follow, really.
It is a question I would have first put to the funeral directors. Again,
it won't be the first time they have encountered such a need. They might
even have something like a large LCD screen that can display live speech
to text.
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever is
necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there. There
would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no question
about legal responsibilities.
So, I'm wondering whether there is a complicated family history behind
the OP which makes it necessary to go beyond simply being nice to the
people attending?
On 18/01/2024 17:35, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral
or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel
time and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
Supply a printed copy of the service.
it will not contain what is said by the vicar/rector/priest/eulogy etc.
S.
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral
or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel
time and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find
the need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to
find out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They
probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well
have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip
reading.
I know for a fact that one of the audience members *will" require speech
to text reporting as they are related to the deceased.
On 18/01/2024 17:35, Max Demian wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral
or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel
time and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
Supply a printed copy of the service.
it will not contain what is said by the vicar/rector/priest/eulogy etc.
On 18/01/2024 16:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/01/2024 16:02, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find
the need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea
to find out first whether any actually need any additional aid.
They probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but
may well have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good
at lip reading.
I find the question difficult to follow, really.
It is a question I would have first put to the funeral directors.
Again, it won't be the first time they have encountered such a need.
They might even have something like a large LCD screen that can
display live speech to text.
buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do the
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever
is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there.
There would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no
question about legal responsibilities.
the minimum cost of a BSL interpreter or a STTR is 3 hours, so thats
65 per hour PLUS VAT, plus travel time, plus travel costs so its
very easy to get a bill for around 500.
So, I'm wondering whether there is a complicated family history
behind the OP which makes it necessary to go beyond simply being
nice to the people attending?
Yeah, some family members do not understand deafness and will be quick
to criticise paying out $500 to ensure a deaf relative of theirs can
actually follow the service, feel included with an accessible service.
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find the
need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to find
out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They probably
don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well have a
speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip reading.
I find the question difficult to follow, really.
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there. There
would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no question about
legal responsibilities.
So, I'm wondering whether there is a complicated family history behind
the OP which makes it necessary to go beyond simply being nice to the
people attending?
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever
is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there.
There would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no
question about legal responsibilities.
the minimum cost of a BSL interpreter or a STTR is 3 hours, so thats
65 per hour PLUS VAT, plus travel time, plus travel costs so its very
easy to get a bill for around 500.
On 18/01/2024 17:30, SH wrote:
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral
or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel
time and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service? >>>>
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find
the need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to
find out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They
probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well
have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip
reading.
I know for a fact that one of the audience members *will" require
speech to text reporting as they are related to the deceased.
How do they cope in other situations?
On 18/01/2024 17:35, SH wrote:
On 18/01/2024 16:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/01/2024 16:02, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find
the need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea
to find out first whether any actually need any additional aid.
They probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but
may well have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good
at lip reading.
I find the question difficult to follow, really.
It is a question I would have first put to the funeral directors.
Again, it won't be the first time they have encountered such a need.
They might even have something like a large LCD screen that can
display live speech to text.
buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do the
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
Not if they use a computer with a speech to text app. As can be seen
when watching live news with subtitles, they sometimes have errors, but
are generally very good.
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever
is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there.
There would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no
question about legal responsibilities.
the minimum cost of a BSL interpreter or a STTR is 3 hours, so thats
£65 per hour PLUS VAT, plus travel time, plus travel costs so its very
easy to get a bill for around £500.
So, I'm wondering whether there is a complicated family history
behind the OP which makes it necessary to go beyond simply being
nice to the people attending?
Yeah, some family members do not understand deafness and will be quick
to criticise paying out $500 to ensure a deaf relative of theirs can
actually follow the service, feel included with an accessible service.
On 18/01/2024 17:46, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/01/2024 17:35, SH wrote:
On 18/01/2024 16:20, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/01/2024 16:02, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them
find the need to have communication support, so it might be a good >>>>>> idea to find out first whether any actually need any additional
aid. They probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, >>>>>> but may well have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be >>>>>> good at lip reading.
I find the question difficult to follow, really.
It is a question I would have first put to the funeral directors.
Again, it won't be the first time they have encountered such a need.
They might even have something like a large LCD screen that can
display live speech to text.
buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do the
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
Not if they use a computer with a speech to text app. As can be seen
when watching live news with subtitles, they sometimes have errors,
but are generally very good.
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever
is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there.
There would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no
question about legal responsibilities.
the minimum cost of a BSL interpreter or a STTR is 3 hours, so thats
£65 per hour PLUS VAT, plus travel time, plus travel costs so its
very easy to get a bill for around £500.
So, I'm wondering whether there is a complicated family history
behind the OP which makes it necessary to go beyond simply being
nice to the people attending?
Yeah, some family members do not understand deafness and will be
quick to criticise paying out $500 to ensure a deaf relative of
theirs can actually follow the service, feel included with an
accessible service.
they are dependent on good audio qaulity and minimal bakground noise. A
human ear is still better than a microphone badly placed, low level background noise, ADC, AI & ML and internet dependent STTR software.
buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do theNot if they use a computer with a speech to text app. As can be seen
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
when watching live news with subtitles, they sometimes have errors, but
are generally very good.
they are dependent on good audio qaulity and minimal bakground noise. A
human ear is still better than a microphone badly placed, low level background noise, ADC, AI & ML and internet dependent STTR software.
In message <uobngb$2lql5$4@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:07 on Thu, 18 Jan
2024, SH <i.love@spam.com> remarked:
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever
is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there.
There would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no
question about legal responsibilities.
the minimum cost of a BSL interpreter or a STTR is 3 hours, so thats
£65 per hour PLUS VAT, plus travel time, plus travel costs so its very
easy to get a bill for around £500.
I'm told by someone who does it, that the going rate for a teacher-of
BSL is £40/hr, and no travelling expenses. Even if the bill *was* £500,
the average funeral costs £4k-£7k, plus maybe £50/head for the wake, so it's not exactly a show-stopper.
If you want to raise some funds, rather than have guests buy flowers or contribute to some feel-good charity, they could make a contribution to
the funeral costs - especially if that facilitates more people being
able to attend.
On 18/01/2024 18:18, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <uobngb$2lql5$4@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:07 on Thu, 18 Jan >>2024, SH <i.love@spam.com> remarked:
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever >>>>>is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there. >>>>>There would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no >>>>>question about legal responsibilities.
the minimum cost of a BSL interpreter or a STTR is 3 hours, so thats
65 per hour PLUS VAT, plus travel time, plus travel costs so its
very easy to get a bill for around 500.
I'm told by someone who does it, that the going rate for a
teacher-of BSL is 40/hr, and no travelling expenses. Even if the
bill *was* 500, the average funeral costs 4k-7k, plus maybe
50/head for the wake, so it's not exactly a show-stopper.
If I were the deaf person, I might be reluctant to have 500 (or even
half that) spent on a BSL interpreter if it were just for my benefit.
It would embarrass me, and I'd be aware that other people might regard
it as rather expensive, so I wouldn't want to upset them.
The OP said "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and >require communication support", so 500 for several people's benefit
might be much more acceptable.
On 18/01/2024 16:02, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 15:42, Colin Bignell wrote:
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find
the need to have communication support, so it might be a good idea to
find out first whether any actually need any additional aid. They
probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well
have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip
reading.
I find the question difficult to follow, really.
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever is
necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there. There
would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no question about
legal responsibilities.
So, I'm wondering whether there is a complicated family history behind
the OP which makes it necessary to go beyond simply being nice to the
people attending?
There are some members of the deceased's family that do not understand deafness at all and would be quick to criticise the provision of STTR to their deaf relativ for the service.
In message <uobngb$2lql5$4@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:07 on Thu, 18 Jan
2024, SH <i.love@spam.com> remarked:
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever
is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there.
There would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no
question about legal responsibilities.
the minimum cost of a BSL interpreter or a STTR is 3 hours, so thats
£65 per hour PLUS VAT, plus travel time, plus travel costs so its very
easy to get a bill for around £500.
I'm told by someone who does it, that the going rate for a teacher-of
BSL is £40/hr, and no travelling expenses.
the average funeral costs £4k-£7k, plus maybe £50/head for the wake, so it's not exactly a show-stopper.
If you want to raise some funds, rather than have guests buy flowers or contribute to some feel-good charity, they could make a contribution to
the funeral costs - especially if that facilitates more people being
able to attend.
On Thursday 18 January 2024 at 17:47:39 UTC, Colin Bignell wrote:
buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do theNot if they use a computer with a speech to text app. As can be seen
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
when watching live news with subtitles, they sometimes have errors, but
are generally very good.
If speech to text software is used, it is usually used by a trained "re-speaker" who repeats what is being said, enunciating clearly, in a sound-proof studio, using software which has been trained/optimised for that re-speaker.
Using speech to text on ordinary humans will give results similar to Youtube automatic subtitling, which is generally useless on anyone with any form of 'accent'.
Owain
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or >cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require >communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically 65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
There is no legal obligation to provide it. Nobody - not even next of kin - >has a legal right to attend a funeral, and therefore if it is in some way >inaccessible to them then that's nobody's responsibility to solve.
Some people have funerals in all sorts of odd places. A distant acquaintance >of mine was laid to rest in a woodland burial site in a remote rural >location. All those attending needed to walk a considerable distance from
the nearest car park to the burial plot. Anyone who couldn't walk, didn't
go. Simples.
On 18/01/2024 18:18, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <uobngb$2lql5$4@dont-email.me>, at 17:35:07 on Thu, 18 Jan >>2024, SH <i.love@spam.com> remarked:
We have a family funeral tomorrow, and we would simply do whatever >>>>>is necessary to accommodate any needs of anyone who will be there. >>>>>There would be no discussion about the costs, and certainly no >>>>>question about legal responsibilities.
the minimum cost of a BSL interpreter or a STTR is 3 hours, so thats
65 per hour PLUS VAT, plus travel time, plus travel costs so its
very easy to get a bill for around 500.
I'm told by someone who does it, that the going rate for a
teacher-of BSL is 40/hr, and no travelling expenses.
A teacher of BSL does not need an interpreting qualification.
A BSL interpreter actually needs an interpreting qualification on top
of all levels of BSL
It it for this reason that a BSL Interp can charge rather more per hour
than a BSL teacher.....
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign language >> interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide this
under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and church/place of >> worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
I rather doubt this will be the only occasion that any of them find the need to
have communication support, so it might be a good idea to find out first whether
any actually need any additional aid. They probably don't carry a BSL interpreter in their pockets, but may well have a speech to text app on their phones, or just be good at lip reading.
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or
cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the proceedings?
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make some
sort of service available to the deaf.
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or
cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the proceedings?
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make some
sort of service available to the deaf.
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
On 19 Jan 2024 at 09:58:38 GMT, "Omega" <crazy@last.com> wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or
cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the proceedings?
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make some
sort of service available to the deaf.
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
Everyone is different. If I were arranging a funeral and some of the relatives
or close friends were deaf and habitually used BSL among themselves then, unless they opposed the idea, I would arrange for a hearing BSL user to attend
the funeral partly so they could follow the ceremony but mainly for inclusivity. I would feel confident in defending my decision should anyone complain.
On 19/01/2024 13:04, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Jan 2024 at 09:58:38 GMT, "Omega" <crazy@last.com> wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or >>>> cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time >>>> and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service? >>>>
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the proceedings?
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make some
sort of service available to the deaf.
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
Everyone is different. If I were arranging a funeral and some of the
relatives
or close friends were deaf and habitually used BSL among themselves then,
unless they opposed the idea, I would arrange for a hearing BSL user
to attend
the funeral partly so they could follow the ceremony but mainly for
inclusivity. I would feel confident in defending my decision should
anyone
complain.
A lovely attitude to have.... :-)
One small point, not ALL deaf people use BSL, some use lip-speakers and
some use live verbatim speech to text reporting.
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs.....
There are some family members of the deceased who simply haven't kept
with the times in terms of improved accessibility & inclusion and also
the greater legal protections of those who require accessibility &
inclusion.
On 19/01/2024 14:12, SH wrote:It would cost them ten times the likely cost of the BSL person to even start legal action, so I guess the executor has only to be reasonably robust in rejecting criticism. Does anyone know of a case of beneficiaries suing for the cost of an allegedly extravagant funeral?
On 19/01/2024 13:04, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Jan 2024 at 09:58:38 GMT, "Omega" <crazy@last.com> wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or >>>>> cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time >>>>> and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide >>>>> this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service? >>>>>
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the proceedings? >>>>
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make some >>>> sort of service available to the deaf.
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
Everyone is different. If I were arranging a funeral and some of the
relatives
or close friends were deaf and habitually used BSL among themselves then, >>> unless they opposed the idea, I would arrange for a hearing BSL user
to attend
the funeral partly so they could follow the ceremony but mainly for
inclusivity. I would feel confident in defending my decision should
anyone
complain.
A lovely attitude to have.... :-)
One small point, not ALL deaf people use BSL, some use lip-speakers and
some use live verbatim speech to text reporting.
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs.....
I think you have had that question answered multiple times: Nobody is
legally responsible for organising the BSL or paying for it.
That would not preclude the people organising the funeral (probably the executors) from organising BSL. They would then deduct the cost from the estate, as part of the funeral expenses, and hope that none of the beneficiaries objected.
On 19/01/2024 13:04, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Jan 2024 at 09:58:38 GMT, "Omega" <crazy@last.com> wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or >>>> cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time >>>> and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service? >>>>
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the proceedings?
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make some
sort of service available to the deaf.
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
Everyone is different. If I were arranging a funeral and some of the relatives
or close friends were deaf and habitually used BSL among themselves then,
unless they opposed the idea, I would arrange for a hearing BSL user to attend
the funeral partly so they could follow the ceremony but mainly for
inclusivity. I would feel confident in defending my decision should anyone >> complain.
A lovely attitude to have.... :-)
One small point, not ALL deaf people use BSL, some use lip-speakers and
some use live verbatim speech to text reporting.
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs.....
There are some family members of the deceased who simply haven't kept
with the times in terms of improved accessibility & inclusion and also
the greater legal protections of those who require accessibility &
inclusion.
On 19 Jan 2024 at 14:12:14 GMT, "SH" <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
On 19/01/2024 13:04, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Jan 2024 at 09:58:38 GMT, "Omega" <crazy@last.com> wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or >>>>> cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time >>>>> and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide >>>>> this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service? >>>>>
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the proceedings? >>>>
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make some >>>> sort of service available to the deaf.
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
Everyone is different. If I were arranging a funeral and some of the relatives
or close friends were deaf and habitually used BSL among themselves then, >>> unless they opposed the idea, I would arrange for a hearing BSL user to attend
the funeral partly so they could follow the ceremony but mainly for
inclusivity. I would feel confident in defending my decision should anyone >>> complain.
A lovely attitude to have.... :-)
One small point, not ALL deaf people use BSL, some use lip-speakers and
some use live verbatim speech to text reporting.
Which is why I said "if ... they habitually used BSL"
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs.....
There are some family members of the deceased who simply haven't kept
with the times in terms of improved accessibility & inclusion and also
the greater legal protections of those who require accessibility &
inclusion.
The consensus seems to be that only the person who arranges the funeral is likely to pay for such a service, and there is no evidence he or she is under any obligation to allow for disabilities. Or indeed to hold any ceremony at all.
It must be possible, but it would seem incredibly unlikely that the beneficiaries could sue the funeral arranger for wasting money; and if they could it would be for spending tens or hundreds of thousands of pounds, not a few hundred.
I am sure you should do what you think is right and would accord with the deceased wishes, and politely tell anyone who objects that that is what you have done. Are you the executor, and if not what do they think?
On 19/01/2024 09:58, Omega wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral
or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel
time and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers?
Is it the chucrh/place of worship etc/crematorium chapel?
Is is the the people who have instructed the undertakers and
church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members?
The undertakers?
The Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel?
The estate of the person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the proceedings?
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make some
sort of service available to the deaf.
It could also be free, if you choose the right funeral director:
https://www.rounce.co.uk/provision-for-the-deaf
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
It is a question I would have first put to the funeral directors. Again,buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do the
it won't be the first time they have encountered such a need. They might even have something like a large LCD screen that can display live speech
to text.
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
On 19/01/2024 18:00, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Jan 2024 at 14:12:14 GMT, "SH" <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs..... >>>
There are some family members of the deceased who simply haven't kept
with the times in terms of improved accessibility & inclusion and also
the greater legal protections of those who require accessibility &
inclusion.
The consensus seems to be that only the person who arranges the funeral is >> likely to pay for such a service, and there is no evidence he or she is under
any obligation to allow for disabilities. Or indeed to hold any ceremony at >> all.
A local funeral director does a cremation without any attendees for
under 1000, so that is a way to save money.
On 19/01/2024 13:04, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Jan 2024 at 09:58:38 GMT, "Omega" <crazy@last.com> wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral
or cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel
time and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and
provide this under the Equality Act 2010?
Is it the undertakers? Is it the chucrh/place of worship
etc/crematorium chapel? Is is the the people who have instructed
the undertakers and church/place of worship/Crematorium Chapel?
Is it the hearing impaired audience member?
Question 2:
Who pays for this?
The hearing imapired audience members? The undertakers? The
Church/Place of worship/Crematorium chapel? The estate of the
person paying for their own burial/cremation service?
As you all know, I'm not a lawyer.
I haven't a clue what the "Equality Act 2010" says but surely this
question is a 'none' question?
A deaf person would attend a funeral, I assume, to grieve for his
departed. No one is denying him his show of emotion. Presumably he
will attend of his own volition without any cost on entrance so what
right under the Act does he have to interpretation of the
proceedings?
A fellow poster has suggested it would cost perhaps £500 to make
some sort of service available to the deaf.
If I had been asked to pay for this service for the deaf when I
organised my sons' funeral, then later my father, my brother, then
mother, then I would have simply declined.
You are deaf, please don't burden me with such extravagance if you
simply want to join us for half an hour to express your sorrow.
omega
Everyone is different. If I were arranging a funeral and some of the
relatives or close friends were deaf and habitually used BSL among
themselves then, unless they opposed the idea, I would arrange for a
hearing BSL user to attend the funeral partly so they could follow
the ceremony but mainly for inclusivity. I would feel confident in
defending my decision should anyone complain.
A lovely attitude to have.... :-)
One small point, not ALL deaf people use BSL, some use lip-speakers
and some use live verbatim speech to text reporting.
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility
costs.....
There are some family members of the deceased who simply haven't kept
with the times in terms of improved accessibility & inclusion and also
the greater legal protections of those who require accessibility &
inclusion.
On 19/01/2024 14:12, SH wrote:
One small point, not ALL deaf people use BSL, some use lip-speakers and
some use live verbatim speech to text reporting.
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs.....
I think you have had that question answered multiple times: Nobody is
legally responsible for organising the BSL or paying for it.
That would not preclude the people organising the funeral (probably the >executors) from organising BSL. They would then deduct the cost from the >estate, as part of the funeral expenses, and hope that none of the >beneficiaries objected.
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs.....
That would not preclude the people organising the funeral (probably the >executors) from organising BSL. They would then deduct the cost from
the estate, as part of the funeral expenses, and hope that none of the >beneficiaries objected.
On Thursday 18 January 2024 at 17:35:13 UTC, SH wrote:probably be speaking fairly slowly and it's not like a courtroom or academic lecture with difficult vocabulary.
It is a question I would have first put to the funeral directors. Again, >>> it won't be the first time they have encountered such a need. They might >>> even have something like a large LCD screen that can display live speech >>> to text.buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do the
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
If there's a reasonably good internet connection (and since Covid, funeral venues are set up for streaming) STTR can be done remotely, streaming the speaker to the transcriber and streaming the transcribed text back. Most people in a funeral will
This will avoid the reporter having to travel to the venue, which may be a large part of the cost.
https://avsttr.org.uk/ can probably advise
Owain
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 14:12:14 +0000, SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs.....
The person who is organising the funeral is, ultimately, responsible for organising and paying for it. That includes anything like hiring a BSL interpreter. But it may be included in the fee paid for the funeral, if the right choices are made.
As pointed out previously in this thread, there are some funeral directors who include providing a BSL interpreter as an optional part of their
service, and, in some cases this may even be included within the fee rather than a chargeable extra. There are also charities which can supply a BSL interpreter on request for funerals and the like, if the organiser can't afford it and the service provider doesn't offer it. Many churches which regularly conduct funerals (and nearly all crematoriums) will be familiar with a need for BSL and have the necessary contacts to arrange it.
Many CofE churches, in particular, may have access to a diocesan BSL interpreter who is employed by the diocese in order to provide their service to weddings, funerals etc at no additional cost to the organiser, or to a central fund which can pay for freelance BSL interpreters. A quick web
search reveals, for example, that both the Diocese of London and the Diocese of Worcester will either provide, or fund, the provision of BSL interpreters at weddings and funerals privided that the request is made in good time.
So the most important thing is to ensure that the person organising the funeral mentions the need for BSL (or some other accessibility option) when having the initial conversation with the funeral director. The FD will
almost certainly be able to advise on the way forward, including advice on which churches and crematoriums are likely to be able to provide the service at no extra cost or, if that is not possible, where to go to obtain the
right service at a reasonable price.
Mark
On Fri, 19 Jan 2024 15:53:06 +0000, GB <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 19/01/2024 14:12, SH wrote:
One small point, not ALL deaf people use BSL, some use lip-speakers and
some use live verbatim speech to text reporting.
just need a deifinitive answer on (a) who is legally responsible to
organise and (b) who has to legally pick up the accessibility costs.....
I think you have had that question answered multiple times: Nobody is
legally responsible for organising the BSL or paying for it.
That would not preclude the people organising the funeral (probably the
executors) from organising BSL. They would then deduct the cost from the
estate, as part of the funeral expenses, and hope that none of the
beneficiaries objected.
As I said in a parallel reply, early discussions with the funeral director may well mean that a BSL interpreter can be included in the service at no additional cost to the executor. The important thing is to make sure that this is a requirement which is clearly communicated up front.
This is a practical, rather than legal problem. Looking at it from a legal perspective is more likely to be a hindrance than a help.
Mark
On 19/01/2024 20:33, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday 18 January 2024 at 17:35:13 UTC, SH wrote:
It is a question I would have first put to the funeral directors.buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do the
Again,
it won't be the first time they have encountered such a need. They
might
even have something like a large LCD screen that can display live
speech
to text.
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
If there's a reasonably good internet connection (and since Covid,
funeral venues are set up for streaming) STTR can be done remotely,
streaming the speaker to the transcriber and streaming the transcribed
text back. Most people in a funeral will probably be speaking fairly
slowly and it's not like a courtroom or academic lecture with
difficult vocabulary.
This will avoid the reporter having to travel to the venue, which may
be a large part of the cost.
https://avsttr.org.uk/ can probably advise
Owain
I was actually wondering whether Wi Fi was actually available at places
as my instinct tells me that Wi Fi is NOT provided for reasons of Dignity?
I would imagine the Webcasting/streaming would be done over wired
ethernet from discreetly mounted cameras?
I have seen STTR in use, and it relies on tablets being used for
displaying text and also some form of Wi Fi microphone from the pulpit.
What are the chances of these places actually having some spare tablets
and audio stremed microphones?
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf peopel do not use BSL but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people use
BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf peopel do not use BSL but
use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing
loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour
plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
On 19/01/2024 20:33, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Thursday 18 January 2024 at 17:35:13 UTC, SH wrote:
It is a question I would have first put to the funeral directors. Again, >>>> it won't be the first time they have encountered such a need. They might >>>> even have something like a large LCD screen that can display live speech >>>> to text.buit they would need to book someone to come in to listen and do the
live typing up via palantype or stenograph.
If there's a reasonably good internet connection (and since Covid, funeral >> venues are set up for streaming) STTR can be done remotely, streaming the
speaker to the transcriber and streaming the transcribed text back. Most
people in a funeral will probably be speaking fairly slowly and it's not like
a courtroom or academic lecture with difficult vocabulary.
This will avoid the reporter having to travel to the venue, which may be a >> large part of the cost.
https://avsttr.org.uk/ can probably advise
Owain
I was actually wondering whether Wi Fi was actually available at places as my instinct tells me that Wi Fi is NOT provided for reasons of Dignity?
I would imagine the Webcasting/streaming would be done over wired ethernet from
discreetly mounted cameras?
I have seen STTR in use, and it relies on tablets being used for displaying text
and also some form of Wi Fi microphone from the pulpit.
What are the chances of these places actually having some spare tablets and audio stremed microphones?
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people
use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf peopel do not use BSL
but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing
loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically £65 per
hour plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be inclusive
and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common steroetype that
all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text reporting
(so far)
On 19/01/2024 16:46, Mark Goodge wrote:
This is a practical, rather than legal problem. Looking at it from a legal >> perspective is more likely to be a hindrance than a help.The deaf person concerned is NOT a user of BSL, and does NOT know any
BSL at all.
They rely on Speech to Text reporting and this is completely different
to BSL.
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people use >BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf peopel do not use BSL but use >either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
On 20/01/2024 12:54, SH wrote:
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people
use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf peopel do not use BSL
but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing
loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically £65 per
hour plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
I'm afraid that you totally confused me. I was imagining a branch of the family with the same profound deafness.
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text reporting
(so far)
At our family funeral on Friday, there was an internet feed of the proceedings - like Zoom but a different service. It would be easy enough
for a STTR reporter to watch that, and type it into whatsapp on a PC,
say. That would not involved travelling time, and the deaf person could
pick it up immediately.
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 09:44:33 +0000, SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people use
BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf peopel do not use BSL but use
either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Yes, but BSL is likely to be the one that costs money to provide, as it
needs a human to do it and they tend to charge for their services. STT can
be done very effectively by free phone and tablet apps, so provided the
venue can be set up in a way which accommodate someone using STT on their device (which, again, isn't going to cost money, merely making sure that needs are communicated in advance) it's not going to be an issue.
Mark
If there's a reasonably good internet connection (and since Covid, funeral venues are set up for streaming) STTR can be done remotely, streaming the speaker to the transcriber and streaming the transcribed text back.I was actually wondering whether Wi Fi was actually available at places
as my instinct tells me that Wi Fi is NOT provided for reasons of Dignity?
On 18/01/2024 15:26, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or
cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically 65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't, then
there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything, although that
doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the EQ
2010 when requested.
On 20/01/2024 14:14, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Sat, 20 Jan 2024 09:44:33 +0000, SH <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people use
BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf peopel do not use BSL but use >>> either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Yes, but BSL is likely to be the one that costs money to provide, as it
needs a human to do it and they tend to charge for their services. STT can >> be done very effectively by free phone and tablet apps, so provided the
venue can be set up in a way which accommodate someone using STT on their
device (which, again, isn't going to cost money, merely making sure that
needs are communicated in advance) it's not going to be an issue.
a real human STTR can actaully do a better job than AI or ML based
speech to text software.....
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people
use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf people do not use
BSL but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing
loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically 65 per
hour plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text reporting
(so far)
a real human STTR can actaully do a better job than AI or ML based
speech to text software.....
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't,
then there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything, although
that doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the EQ
2010 when requested.
On 12:54 20 Jan 2024, SH said:
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people
use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf people do not use
BSL but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing
loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically Ł65 per
hour plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text reporting
(so far)
I'm not clear if you are arranging this funeral or if you're lobbying
for more deaf facilities than are currently planned.
Nor is it clear what assistance the deaf person at the centre of this
wants at the service.
Can you provide information about these points.
On 12:54 20 Jan 2024, SH said:
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people
use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf people do not use
BSL but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing
loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically Ł65 per
hour plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text reporting
(so far)
I'm not clear if you are arranging this funeral or if you're lobbying
for more deaf facilities than are currently planned.
Nor is it clear what assistance the deaf person at the centre of this
wants at the service.
Can you provide information about these points.
At our family funeral on Friday, there was an internet feed of the
proceedings - like Zoom but a different service. It would be easy
enough for a STTR reporter to watch that, and type it into whatsapp on
a PC, say. That would not involved travelling time, and the deaf
person could pick it up immediately.
whatsapp is not real time and is dependent on network congestion
On 18/01/2024 17:29, SH wrote:
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't,
then there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything,
although that doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the EQ
2010 when requested.
I'd be grateful for a reference for that, please? At least, insofar as
it applies to private gatherings.
On 18/01/2024 15:26, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or
cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time
and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't, then
there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything, although that
doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the EQ
2010 when requested.
On 21/01/2024 12:50, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 17:29, SH wrote:
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't,
then there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything,
although that doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the EQ
2010 when requested.
I'd be grateful for a reference for that, please? At least, insofar as
it applies to private gatherings.
As far as I can make out, the EQ 2010 act refers to employers, medical practitioners, service providers and traders. Parts of consumer law
also supports the last categories.
https://www.ndcs.org.uk/information-and-support/professionals/workplace/support/goods-and-services-duty-to-make-reasonable-adjustments/
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-goods-and-services1/goods-and-services-what-are-the-different-types-of-discrimination/discrimination-in-the-provision-of-
On 18 Jan 2024 at 17:29:40 GMT, "SH" <i.love@spam.com> wrote:
On 18/01/2024 15:26, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or >>>> cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time >>>> and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide
this under the Equality Act 2010?
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't, then >>> there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything, although that
doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the EQ
2010 when requested.
Well firstly that is hardly relevant in a situation where you are not obliged to make reasonable adjustments at all - such as a private function. And the reasonablenss of adjustments is context-dependent - I doubt if an airline is obliged to employ profoundly deaf pilots, for instance.
On 21/01/2024 13:43, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Jan 2024 at 17:29:40 GMT, "SH" <i.love@spam.com> wrote:But isn't an undertaker a service provider? They are providing the
On 18/01/2024 15:26, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or >>>>> cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require
communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign
language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time >>>>> and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide >>>>> this under the Equality Act 2010?
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't,
then
there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything, although that >>>> doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the EQ
2010 when requested.
Well firstly that is hardly relevant in a situation where you are not
obliged
to make reasonable adjustments at all - such as a private function.
And the
reasonablenss of adjustments is context-dependent - I doubt if an
airline is
obliged to employ profoundly deaf pilots, for instance.
coffin, they are orgaising and provcing the service, the venuem the
committal etc.
So surely the undertaker as a service provider is obliged to provide reasonable adjustments under the EQ 2010 Act?
On 20/01/2024 20:12, Pamela wrote:
On 12:54 20 Jan 2024, SH said:
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people
use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf people do not use
BSL but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a
hearing loss and require communication support such as live speech
to text reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically
Ł65 per hour plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text
reporting (so far)
I'm not clear if you are arranging this funeral or if you're lobbying
for more deaf facilities than are currently planned.
Nor is it clear what assistance the deaf person at the centre of this
wants at the service.
Can you provide information about these points.
The deceased's 2 children are the orgnaisers of the service
The deceased grandchild is born profoundly deaf and requests Speech to
Text Reporting.
Already, the deceased children have said no to Live streaming when
offered by the crematorium at the time of booking.
So if live streaming is not enabled, remote STTTR is not going to be possible, so an in-person STTR with the extra travel time and travel
costs is looking like the only option going forward assuming no one
else objects.
SOme of the deceased family members simply do not understand deafness
and see anyone asking for adjustments as "someone making an
unreasonable demand and creating unecessary fuss and being spiteful!"
On 21/01/2024 13:34, SH wrote:
On 21/01/2024 12:50, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 17:29, SH wrote:
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it
isn't, then there is no legal requirement for anyone to do
anything, although that doesn't preclude arrangements being made
voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the
EQ 2010 when requested.
I'd be grateful for a reference for that, please? At least, insofar
as it applies to private gatherings.
As far as I can make out, the EQ 2010 act refers to employers,
medical practitioners, service providers and traders. Parts of
consumer law also supports the last categories.
https://www.ndcs.org.uk/information-and-support/
professionals/workplace/support/
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/equality-act-2010-guidance
https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/discrimination-in-
the-provision-of-goods-and-services/discrimination-in-the-
provision-of-goods-and-services1/goods-and-services-what-are-
the-different-types-of-discrimination/discrimination-in-the-
provision-of-goods-and-services-duty-to-make-reasonable-
adjustments/
P.S. and this as well
https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/20
On Sunday 21 January 2024 at 15:13:33 UTC, SH wrote:
On 21/01/2024 13:43, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Jan 2024 at 17:29:40 GMT, "SH" <i.l...@spam.com> wrote:But isn't an undertaker a service provider? They are providing the
On 18/01/2024 15:26, GB wrote:
On 18/01/2024 14:50, SH wrote:
A person has died and arrangements are being made to hold a funeral or >>>>>> cremation.
Some of the service attendees live with a hearing loss and require >>>>>> communication support such as live speech to text reporting or sign >>>>>> language interpreting. This is typically £65 per hour plus travel time >>>>>> and travel costs.
Question 1. Whose legal responsibility is it to organise and provide >>>>>> this under the Equality Act 2010?
Surely, that's begging the question of whether providing a BSL
interpreter is a 'reasonable adjustment' under the EA? If it isn't, then >>>>> there is no legal requirement for anyone to do anything, although that >>>>> doesn't preclude arrangements being made voluntarily.
Providing BSL or STTR *is* a legal reasonable adjustment under the EQ
2010 when requested.
Well firstly that is hardly relevant in a situation where you are not obliged
to make reasonable adjustments at all - such as a private function. And the >>> reasonablenss of adjustments is context-dependent - I doubt if an airline is
obliged to employ profoundly deaf pilots, for instance.
coffin, they are orgaising and provcing the service, the venuem the
committal etc.
I don't think *the content of the memorial service* is generally a service provided
by the undertaker. The crematorium is providing a service (so will have obligations about e.g. accessibility to the building). The undertakers are providing their services in relation to dealing with the body, arranging transport etc (so may be obliged e.g. to phone deaf clients via a relay service).
But it's (I presume) the executors who are arranging the celebrant, eulogies, etc,
and I don't think that's a "service" to attendees in terms of the Equality Act.
On 20/01/2024 20:12, Pamela wrote:
On 12:54 20 Jan 2024, SH said:
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people
use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf people do not use
BSL but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing
loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically 0 >>>> hour plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text reporting
(so far)
I'm not clear if you are arranging this funeral or if you're
lobbying for more deaf facilities than are currently planned.
Nor is it clear what assistance the deaf person at the centre of
this wants at the service. Can you provide information about these >>points.
The deceased's 2 children are the orgnaisers of the service
The deceased grandchild
is born profoundly deaf and requests Speech to Text Reporting.
Already, the deceased children have said no to Live streaming when
offered by the crematorium at the time of booking.
So if live streaming is not enabled, remote STTTR is not going to be >possible, so an in-person STTR with the extra travel time and travel
costs is looking like the only option going forward assuming no one
else objects.
SOme of the deceased family members simply do not understand deafness
and see anyone asking for adjustments as "someone making an
unreasonable demand and creating unecessary fuss and being spiteful!"
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text
reporting (so far)
I'm not clear if you are arranging this funeral or if you're lobbying
for more deaf facilities than are currently planned.
Nor is it clear what assistance the deaf person at the centre of this
wants at the service.
Can you provide information about these points.
The deceased's 2 children are the orgnaisers of the service
The deceased grandchild is born profoundly deaf and requests Speech to
Text Reporting.
Already, the deceased children have said no to Live streaming when
offered by the crematorium at the time of booking.
So if live streaming is not enabled, remote STTTR is not going to be
possible, so an in-person STTR with the extra travel time and travel
costs is looking like the only option going forward assuming no one
else objects.
SOme of the deceased family members simply do not understand deafness
and see anyone asking for adjustments as "someone making an
unreasonable demand and creating unecessary fuss and being spiteful!"
Thank you. That makes it clearer.
So the deaf person at the centre of this discussion is a son or daughter
of one of the deceased's two children who are organising this. I presume
they are not a minor. You haven't said if the deaf person is you.
I imagine the deceased's two children are executors in charge of
the funeral arrangements.
If the deaf person we're discussing requires Speech to Text Reporting
and the executors (and parent) have refused then there's not much to be
done to force it. This problem sounds like a family disagreement, and
maybe it has reared its head in different forms in the past.
Would the deaf person be willing to make his (or her) own arrangements
and pay for them? I presume he receives Personal Independence Payment
that could be used, as this is the sort of additional cost of daily
living PIP is designed for.
ALternatively he could pay for the Live Streaming that was declined.
In message <uoinp7$4bbo$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:22:47 on Sun, 21 Jan
2024, SH <i.love@spam.com> remarked:
On 20/01/2024 20:12, Pamela wrote:
On 12:54 20 Jan 2024, SH said:
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people >>>>>> use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf people do not use
BSL but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing >>>>> loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically 0 >>>>
hour plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text reporting
(so far)
I'm not clear if you are arranging this funeral or if you're
lobbying for more deaf facilities than are currently planned.
Nor is it clear what assistance the deaf person at the centre of
this wants at the service. Can you provide information about these >>> points.
The deceased's 2 children are the orgnaisers of the service
The deceased grandchild
I'm assuming that's typo and the grandchild is not the person whose
funeral it is.
is born profoundly deaf and requests Speech to Text Reporting.
If they've been profoundly deaf their whole life, and never seen the
need to learn BSL, then one's sympathy is ebbing away.
Already, the deceased children have said no to Live streaming when
offered by the crematorium at the time of booking.
Maybe they should find a different crematorium.
So if live streaming is not enabled, remote STTTR is not going to be
possible, so an in-person STTR with the extra travel time and travel
costs is looking like the only option going forward assuming no one
else objects.
SOme of the deceased family members simply do not understand deafness
and see anyone asking for adjustments as "someone making an
unreasonable demand and creating unecessary fuss and being spiteful!"
Those "some people" need to get a life. Ignore them.
In message <uoinp7$4bbo$1@dont-email.me>, at 09:22:47 on Sun, 21 Jan
2024, SH <i.love@spam.com> remarked:
On 20/01/2024 20:12, Pamela wrote:
On 12:54 20 Jan 2024, SH said:
On 20/01/2024 11:46, GB wrote:
On 20/01/2024 09:44, SH wrote:
Again some people are falling into the assumption that deaf people >>>>>> use BSL..... A significant proportion of deaf people do not use
BSL but use either Speech to Text reporting or Lip - speakers.
Your OP mentioned "Some of the service attendees live with a hearing >>>>> loss and require communication support such as live speech to text
reporting or sign language interpreting. This is typically 0 >>>> hour >>>>> plus travel time and travel costs."
Could you kindly clarify how many people you are talking about, and
whether they all require the same support?
I was deliberately keeping the question in general terms to be
inclusive and respectful of the fact that different deaf people use
different communication suppport and to NOT reinforce the common
steroetype that all deaf perople use BSL.... :-)
We are talking about one person who requires speech to text reporting
(so far)
I'm not clear if you are arranging this funeral or if you're
lobbying for more deaf facilities than are currently planned.
Nor is it clear what assistance the deaf person at the centre of
this wants at the service. Can you provide information about these
points.
The deceased's 2 children are the orgnaisers of the service
The deceased grandchild
I'm assuming that's typo and the grandchild is not the person whose
funeral it is.
is born profoundly deaf and requests Speech to Text Reporting.
If they've been profoundly deaf their whole life, and never seen the
need to learn BSL, then one's sympathy is ebbing away.
Already, the deceased children have said no to Live streaming when
offered by the crematorium at the time of booking.
Maybe they should find a different crematorium.
So if live streaming is not enabled, remote STTTR is not going to be
possible, so an in-person STTR with the extra travel time and travel
costs is looking like the only option going forward assuming no one
else objects.
SOme of the deceased family members simply do not understand deafness
and see anyone asking for adjustments as "someone making an
unreasonable demand and creating unecessary fuss and being spiteful!"
Those "some people" need to get a life. Ignore them.
wishes to use STTR to follow the service in full and real
time.
And hence enable remote STTR? That then leaves how to get the captions
back to the deaf person. I am not sure if there is Wi Fi at the venue or
even if any of the 4 mobile phone networks have a presence there.
The deceased's adult children had already chosen the crem, and said no
to the offered option of live streaming (whihc is FREE)
On 22 Jan 2024 at 11:07:52 GMT, "GB" <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 21/01/2024 20:50, SH wrote:
The deceased's adult children had already chosen the crem, and said no
to the offered option of live streaming (whihc is FREE)
Have the deceased's adult children been asked to re-contact the crem to
provide this service? If it is free, and they refuse for no good reason,
that would be concerning.
On the face of it privacy might be a good reason. Unless there is a family member with a legitimate reason for watching the service remotely it seems inappropriate to stream a private family event over the Internet. YMMV.
If they understood that the streaming would only be used for speech to text by
an attendee, and that there was security against anyone else receiving the broadcast perhaps they might be reassured. But, given the frailty of most software (thread convergence!) they might well fear that it would appear on Youtube despite such promises.
On 22 Jan 2024 at 11:07:52 GMT, "GB" <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote:
On 21/01/2024 20:50, SH wrote:
The deceased's adult children had already chosen the crem, and said no
to the offered option of live streaming (whihc is FREE)
Have the deceased's adult children been asked to re-contact the crem to
provide this service? If it is free, and they refuse for no good reason,
that would be concerning.
On the face of it privacy might be a good reason. Unless there is a family member with a legitimate reason for watching the service remotely it seems inappropriate to stream a private family event over the Internet. YMMV.
If they understood that the streaming would only be used for speech to text by
an attendee, and that there was security against anyone else receiving the broadcast perhaps they might be reassured. But, given the frailty of most software (thread convergence!) they might well fear that it would appear on Youtube despite such promises.
On 21/01/2024 20:50, SH wrote:
The deceased's adult children had already chosen the crem, and said no
to the offered option of live streaming (whihc is FREE)
Have the deceased's adult children been asked to re-contact the crem to provide this service? If it is free, and they refuse for no good reason,
that would be concerning.
On 22/01/2024 11:26, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 22 Jan 2024 at 11:07:52 GMT, "GB" <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid> wrote: >>> On 21/01/2024 20:50, SH wrote:
The deceased's adult children had already chosen the crem, and said no >>>> to the offered option of live streaming (whihc is FREE)
Have the deceased's adult children been asked to re-contact the crem to
provide this service? If it is free, and they refuse for no good reason, >>> that would be concerning.
On the face of it privacy might be a good reason. Unless there is a family >> member with a legitimate reason for watching the service remotely it seems >> inappropriate to stream a private family event over the Internet. YMMV.
For our latest family funeral, that was done. It's all password
protected, of course.
The feed is protected by a strong password, which has to be distributed
in advance to anybody who wants to watch the funeral. It is also only available for a limited period after the event.
On 22/01/2024 11:50, Colin Bignell wrote:
The feed is protected by a strong password, which has to be
distributed in advance to anybody who wants to watch the funeral. It
is also only available for a limited period after the event.
Ours was only available live.
On 20/01/2024 16:26, SH wrote:
At our family funeral on Friday, there was an internet feed of the
proceedings - like Zoom but a different service. It would be easy
enough for a STTR reporter to watch that, and type it into whatsapp
on a PC, say. That would not involved travelling time, and the deaf
person could pick it up immediately.
whatsapp is not real time and is dependent on network congestion
The Gold Standard, gilt-edged, Rolls Royce arrangement would be for a
STTR person to travel to the venue and provide an on-the-spot service.
Nobody doubts that. You have estimated the cost at 500, and it seems
that there may be resistance amongst family members to footing the
bill.
So, if you insist on on the spot STTR, it looks like you will have to
pay for it up-front. You can later on take legal action against other
people whom you think should have paid for it, but the general view
here is that you may well not succeed. So, you'll end up out of pocket
for both the STTR and the legal action.
An alternative, and far more practical course, is to aim for a second
rate solution that is *much* cheaper. Such as the one I suggested.
Nobody on this NG is involved in your family's funeral arrangements,
so it's all entirely up to you.
On 21/01/2024 20:03, SH wrote:
wishes to use STTR to follow the service in full and real time.
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
And hence enable remote STTR? That then leaves how to get the captions
back to the deaf person. I am not sure if there is Wi Fi at the venue
or even if any of the 4 mobile phone networks have a presence there.
That last point is easily checked: https://www.ofcom.org.uk/phones-telecoms-and-internet/advice-for-consumers/advice/ofcom-checker
If you are the grandchild we are talking about, I am sorry for your loss.
On Mon, 22 Jan 2024 11:50:16 +0000, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 22/01/2024 11:26, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 22 Jan 2024 at 11:07:52 GMT, "GB" <NOTsomeone@microsoft.invalid>
wrote:
On 21/01/2024 20:50, SH wrote:
The deceased's adult children had already chosen the crem, and said
no to the offered option of live streaming (whihc is FREE)
Have the deceased's adult children been asked to re-contact the crem
to provide this service? If it is free, and they refuse for no good
reason,
that would be concerning.
On the face of it privacy might be a good reason. Unless there is a
family member with a legitimate reason for watching the service
remotely it seems inappropriate to stream a private family event over
the Internet. YMMV.
The feed is protected by a strong password, which has to be distributed
in advance to anybody who wants to watch the funeral. It is also only
available for a limited period after the event.
If they understood that the streaming would only be used for speech to
text by an attendee, and that there was security against anyone else
receiving the broadcast perhaps they might be reassured. But, given the
frailty of most software (thread convergence!) they might well fear
that it would appear on Youtube despite such promises.
If nothing done in real time is acceptable , how about just
recording locally -- no need even to enable its broadcasting
or reception if that's what is objected to -- and making a copy
privately available after the event; the audio content can be transcribed too. That doesn't seem to me much to ask, in the circumstances,
for a profoundly deaf close relative, if it's something s/he
might value. Considering it might even lead to the organisers
becoming less adverse to considering some real time alternative.
On 22/01/2024 12:50, GB wrote:
On 22/01/2024 11:50, Colin Bignell wrote:
The feed is protected by a strong password, which has to be
distributed in advance to anybody who wants to watch the funeral. It
is also only available for a limited period after the event.
Ours was only available live.
It is a service offered by the crematorium, so it may vary from place to >place. In my case, live only would not have suited relatives who were
abroad or one who was working at the time of the service and couldn't
get away.
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 10:55:36 UTC, GB wrote:
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed
there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
With a steno writer, as close as possible.
Demonstration by an experienced stenographer / STTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
Owain
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 10:55:36 UTC, GB wrote:
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed
there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
With a steno writer, as close as possible.
Demonstration by an experienced stenographer / STTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
On 22/01/2024 22:08, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 10:55:36 UTC, GB wrote:
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed
there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
With a steno writer, as close as possible.
Demonstration by an experienced stenographer / STTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
Owain
Thank you Owain for that link for the benefit of others :-)
On 2024-01-22, Owain Lastname <spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com> wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 10:55:36 UTC, GB wrote:
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed
there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
With a steno writer, as close as possible.
Demonstration by an experienced stenographer / STTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
Impressive - they're *so* fast that sometimes they manage to write the
words before the speaker has uttered them! (Most obvious with "quantify"
at 1:18.) This must be like the whole "if you accelerate past the speed
of light you go backwards in time" thing.
On 2024-01-22, Owain Lastname <spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com> wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 10:55:36 UTC, GB wrote:
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed
there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
With a steno writer, as close as possible.
Demonstration by an experienced stenographer / STTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
Impressive - they're *so* fast that sometimes they manage to write the
words before the speaker has uttered them! (Most obvious with "quantify"
at 1:18.) This must be like the whole "if you accelerate past the speed
of light you go backwards in time" thing.
On 24/01/2024 11:52, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2024-01-22, Owain Lastname <spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com> wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 10:55:36 UTC, GB wrote:
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed >>>> there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
With a steno writer, as close as possible.
Demonstration by an experienced stenographer / STTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
Impressive - they're *so* fast that sometimes they manage to write the
words before the speaker has uttered them! (Most obvious with "quantify"
at 1:18.) This must be like the whole "if you accelerate past the speed
of light you go backwards in time" thing.
Predictive typing.
On 2024-01-24, Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 24/01/2024 11:52, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2024-01-22, Owain Lastname <spuorgelgoog@gowanhill.com> wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 10:55:36 UTC, GB wrote:
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I assumed >>>>> there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
With a steno writer, as close as possible.
Demonstration by an experienced stenographer / STTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
Impressive - they're *so* fast that sometimes they manage to write the
words before the speaker has uttered them! (Most obvious with "quantify" >>> at 1:18.) This must be like the whole "if you accelerate past the speed
of light you go backwards in time" thing.
Predictive typing.
Ok, but it's hard to see how it could be predicted that the next word
after "It's very hard to" would be "quantify". The word makes sense
there, but equally so would hundreds or thousands of other words.
Or indeed the random "Okay?" interjection a sentence or two earlier.
It's possible that the video/audio synchronisation got messed up
a bit during the process of transferring it to YouTube I suppose.
With a steno writer, as close as possible.Impressive - they're *so* fast that sometimes they manage to write the
Demonstration by an experienced stenographer / STTR: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
words before the speaker has uttered them!
On 22/01/2024 22:08, Owain Lastname wrote:
On Monday 22 January 2024 at 10:55:36 UTC, GB wrote:
Is STTR really effectively real time? That's very impressive. I
assumed there'd be a delay of a few seconds, at least.
With a steno writer, as close as possible. Demonstration by an
experienced stenographer / STTR:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf2mbAoXfGU
Owain
Thank you Owain for that link for the benefit of others :-)
I've seen i in action too in person. I have always found that no
matter how hard I try to explain STTR to a hearing person, they just
do not "get it"
It is only when they physically see one in use that the penny finally drops...... :-)
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 300 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 36:23:32 |
| Calls: | 6,707 |
| Files: | 12,239 |
| Messages: | 5,353,437 |