There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be
delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be
scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’) provides the only >local bank facility - even for those who bank elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify copies of >documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car there. I’m not sure >about pensions etc these days but the last time I visited our local one, >there seemed to be a number of ‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at >least a lot in the queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your >bank but I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies - including Amazon >etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan
2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be
delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be
scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’) provides the only
local bank facility - even for those who bank elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify copies of
documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car there. I’m not sure >> about pensions etc these days but the last time I visited our local one,
there seemed to be a number of ‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at >> least a lot in the queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your >> bank but I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies - including Amazon >> etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document
by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at
approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened
to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on
Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver
at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be
delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be
scrapped, wouldn't it?
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’) provides the only
local bank facility - even for those who bank elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of ‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies - including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
Am 13/01/2024 um 12:50 schrieb Nick Odell:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be
delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be
scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
Aren't both the PO and RM private companies now? Why should the
government jump in? Are we living in 1950s Soviet Union?
On 2024-01-13, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 13/01/2024 um 12:50 schrieb Nick Odell:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be
delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be
scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
Aren't both the PO and RM private companies now? Why should the
government jump in? Are we living in 1950s Soviet Union?
No - in fact I'm sure I was assured by someone in this group
that we are actually living in North Korea.
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan
2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’) provides the only
local bank facility - even for those who bank elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify copies of >>> documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car there. I’m not sure
about pensions etc these days but the last time I visited our local one, >>> there seemed to be a number of ‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at
least a lot in the queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your >>> bank but I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies - including Amazon
etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document
by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at
approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened
to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on
Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on
Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver
at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original sender. Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered tomorrow?" and was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are a well-known feature of all courier
services. And there is zero reason nowadays that they should correlate with PO
opening times.
No - in fact I'm sure I was assured by someone in this groupCan't be. There are far too many fat people.
that we are actually living in North Korea.
On 13-Jan-24 15:08, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13
Jan
2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said >>>>> for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >>>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >>>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’)
provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank >>>>elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify
copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car
there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last
time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of >>>>‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the >>>>queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but I >>>>don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies -
including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document >>> by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at
approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened
to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on
Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on >>> Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver
at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original
sender.
Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered tomorrow?" and
was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are a well-known
feature of all courier services. And there is zero reason nowadays
that they should correlate with PO opening times.
I agree.
The default assumption should be that anyone offering a "Next Day"
service is lying.
As for your question on presumed service, I had to contact the court on >Thursday as a legal notice dated 28th December 2023, (but which I can
prove wasn't posted until later than this), which has a strict deadline
for responding didn't arrive until Tuesday, 9th January 2024.
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan
2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’)
provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank >>>elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify copies of >>> documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car there. I’m not sure
about pensions etc these days but the last time I visited our local one, >>> there seemed to be a number of ‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at
least a lot in the queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your >>> bank but I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies - including Amazon
etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document
by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at
approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened
to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on
Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on
Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver
at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original sender. >Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered tomorrow?" and was told >by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are a well-known feature of all courier >services. And there is zero reason nowadays that they should correlate with PO >opening times.
In message <l0fnbiFoavjU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:08:34 on Sat, 13
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan
2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said >>>>> for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >>>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >>>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’)
provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank
elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify copies of >>>> documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car there. I’m not sure
about pensions etc these days but the last time I visited our local one, >>>> there seemed to be a number of ‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at
least a lot in the queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your
bank but I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies - including Amazon
etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document >>> by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at
approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened
to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on
Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on >>> Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver
at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original sender.
Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered tomorrow?" and was told >> by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are a well-known feature of all courier
services. And there is zero reason nowadays that they should correlate with PO
opening times.
It's mis-selling under whatever the Trades Description Act is called
this week. If you ask for the "next day service" when it's impossible,
the counter staff should lift their skirt and explain why the sender
needs to pay more than they originally expected.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
On 13 Jan 2024 at 17:54:56 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l0fnbiFoavjU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:08:34 on Sat, 13
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan
2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said >>>>>> for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are >>>>>> put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences? >>>>>> For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >>>>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >>>>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’)
provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank
elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify >>>>>copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car >>>>>there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last >>>>>time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of >>>>>‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the >>>>>queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but
I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies - >>>>>including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document >>>> by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at
approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened >>>> to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on
Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on >>>> Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver
at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original >>>sender. Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered
tomorrow?" and was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are
a well-known feature of all courier services. And there is zero
reason nowadays that they should correlate with PO opening times.
It's mis-selling under whatever the Trades Description Act is called
this week. If you ask for the "next day service" when it's impossible,
the counter staff should lift their skirt and explain why the sender
needs to pay more than they originally expected.
If the sender had asked for the "next day service" they should have offered >him first class post but pointed out it wasn't guaranteed.
In the event it would have probably worked better. It is perhaps more
likely that the sender asked for registered post,
which is what many of us still call special delivery. The counter staff
may have assumed security for valuables was the point, rather then >expeditious delivery.
They couldn't, obviously, read the sender's mind.
On Sunday 14 January 2024 at 10:14:04 UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <h1CoN.211327$Wp_8....@fx17.iad>, at 20:04:28 on Sat, 13
Jan 2024, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> remarked:
On 13-Jan-24 15:08, Roger Hayter wrote:Apart from the fact it's their flagship product, and given the way the
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.uk> wrote: >> >>
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1...@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13
Jan
2024, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nicko...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said >> >>>>> for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >> >>>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >> >>>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’) >> >>>>provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank
elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify
copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car >> >>>>there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last
time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of
‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the
queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but I
don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies -
including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document >> >>> by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at
approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened >> >>> to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on
Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on >> >>> Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver
at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original
sender.
Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered tomorrow?" and
was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are a well-known
feature of all courier services. And there is zero reason nowadays
that they should correlate with PO opening times.
I agree.
The default assumption should be that anyone offering a "Next Day"
service is lying.
so-called First Class service has rotted away the last few years, it's
their main offering for something which needs to be delivered the next
day.
The reason it's called "Special Delivery", by the way is because back in
the day they'd send someone out from the local sorting office with each
item separately, as soon as it was received from the regional sorting
office. Nowadays they do a risk assessment to see if they think they'll
be able to meet the "by 9am" or "by 1pm" using the regular roundsman.
If not they still send someone out (usually in a van) to do the special
thing.
When I lived in urban Nottingham they'd come knocking at 7am which was
their compromise between "We don't think you'd have appreciated us
calling at 5am", and "the traffic starts building up at 8am, so we like
to get these items delivered early".
Yes, the trouble with people who think it's a good idea to send urgent mail >to businesses as "by 9am" is that the postie dutifully turns up to an empty >building long before 9, marks the delivery as attempted on time and then >comes back with it at lunchtime. So it would probably have been faster as >ordinary 1st class.
In message <6304fbc4-8873-4a51-8307-919ab6f8ff3fn@googlegroups.com>, at 03:09:37 on Sun, 14 Jan 2024, David McNeish <davidmcn@gmail.com>
remarked:
On Sunday 14 January 2024 at 10:14:04 UTC, Roland Perry wrote:
In message <h1CoN.211327$Wp_8....@fx17.iad>, at 20:04:28 on Sat, 13
Jan 2024, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> remarked:
On 13-Jan-24 15:08, Roger Hayter wrote:Apart from the fact it's their flagship product, and given the way the
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1...@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 >>>>>> Jan
2024, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nicko...@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail >>>>>>>> appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said >>>>>>>> for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the >>>>>>>> current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are >>>>>>>> put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each >>>>>>>> organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences? >>>>>>>> For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >>>>>>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >>>>>>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’) >>>>>>> provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank
elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify
copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car
there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last >>>>>>> time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of
‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the
queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but I >>>>>>> don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies - >>>>>>> including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document >>>>>> by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at >>>>>> approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened >>>>>> to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on >>>>>> Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on >>>>>> Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver >>>>>> at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original
sender.
Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered tomorrow?" and
was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are a well-known
feature of all courier services. And there is zero reason nowadays
that they should correlate with PO opening times.
I agree.
The default assumption should be that anyone offering a "Next Day"
service is lying.
so-called First Class service has rotted away the last few years, it's
their main offering for something which needs to be delivered the next
day.
The reason it's called "Special Delivery", by the way is because back in >>> the day they'd send someone out from the local sorting office with each
item separately, as soon as it was received from the regional sorting
office. Nowadays they do a risk assessment to see if they think they'll
be able to meet the "by 9am" or "by 1pm" using the regular roundsman.
If not they still send someone out (usually in a van) to do the special
thing.
When I lived in urban Nottingham they'd come knocking at 7am which was
their compromise between "We don't think you'd have appreciated us
calling at 5am", and "the traffic starts building up at 8am, so we like
to get these items delivered early".
Yes, the trouble with people who think it's a good idea to send urgent mail >> to businesses as "by 9am" is that the postie dutifully turns up to an empty >> building long before 9, marks the delivery as attempted on time and then
comes back with it at lunchtime. So it would probably have been faster as
ordinary 1st class.
You don't seem to be listening. First Class is unreliable, with only
73.7% making it on time.
<https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2023/royal-mail-fined-for-missing-delivery-targets>
And in rural areas, they can't even be bothered to delivery every day,
so we often get what's clearly an accumulated backlog. Which is why they
can charge 5x as much for their flagship product.
In message <l0hs6dF5o27U1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:43:26 on Sun, 14
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 17:54:56 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l0fnbiFoavjU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:08:34 on Sat, 13
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan >>>>> 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail >>>>>>> appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said >>>>>>> for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the >>>>>>> current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are >>>>>>> put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each >>>>>>> organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences? >>>>>>> For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >>>>>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >>>>>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’)
provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank
elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify
copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car
there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last
time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of
‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the
queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but >>>>>> I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies -
including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document >>>>> by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at >>>>> approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened >>>>> to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on >>>>> Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on >>>>> Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver >>>>> at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline.
I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original
sender. Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered
tomorrow?" and was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are
a well-known feature of all courier services. And there is zero
reason nowadays that they should correlate with PO opening times.
It's mis-selling under whatever the Trades Description Act is called
this week. If you ask for the "next day service" when it's impossible,
the counter staff should lift their skirt and explain why the sender
needs to pay more than they originally expected.
If the sender had asked for the "next day service" they should have offered >> him first class post but pointed out it wasn't guaranteed.
They asked for their flagship product advertised as next-day delivery. Without the seller saying "in fact, if we watch the dominoes fall, will
be next Tuesday, not tomorrow - Friday. It's perhaps a little surprising
they didn't try to extract the extra fee for delivering on a Saturday.
In the event it would have probably worked better. It is perhaps more
likely that the sender asked for registered post,
No, they would never have heard the term, which was obsolete about 15yrs
ago. And was for a different aspect of the product, viz: We'll try to
make sure it actually gets there, and isn't stolen en-route (or if it is stolen, we'll have a fairly good idea who the perp was).
which is what many of us still call special delivery. The counter staff
may have assumed security for valuables was the point, rather then
expeditious delivery.
Only if they are living 15yrs in the past, which you seem to be.
Meanwhile, they also tend to ask what's inside (in case it's a lithium battery which could explode and crash a hypothetical plane taking a
package from London to Cambridge). Not that you can get many lithium batteries inside an A5 envelope - but nowadays some are quite small.
They couldn't, obviously, read the sender's mind.
Tomorrow is tomorrow, as they say.
They asked for their flagship product advertised as next-day delivery. Without the seller saying "in fact, if we watch the dominoes fall, will
be next Tuesday, not tomorrow - Friday.
On Saturday 13 January 2024 at 12:50:37 UTC, Nick Odell wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail
appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the
current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are
put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each
organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences?
For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be
delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be
scrapped, wouldn't it?
Nick
IIRC Royal Mail is or was a chartered company and the Post Office is a statutory one. I am unsure whether these could simply be dissolved.
OTOH Royal Mail was restructured in 2013 to a Ltd. company with £1G5 shares and then a plc before being renamed to INTERNATIONAL DISTRIBUTIONS SERVICES PLC
Post Office [Counters] Ltd. was restructured as a limited company earlier and is still owned by HMG, so chasing its tax is pointless.
OTOH Royal Mail was restructured in 2013 to a Ltd. company with £1G5
shares and then a plc before being renamed to INTERNATIONAL
DISTRIBUTIONS SERVICES PLC
On 14/01/2024 11:23, Roland Perry wrote:
They asked for their flagship product advertised as next-day
delivery. Without the seller saying "in fact, if we watch the
dominoes fall, will be next Tuesday, not tomorrow - Friday.
Is it advertised as 'next day' or is it 'next working day'(working day >generally accepted as being Mon-Fri)?
Obviously (to anyone with two seconds of thought)there is a cut off
time, or do you feel next working day should be accepted for delivery"
the next day" up till 23:59 ?
On 14 Jan 2024 at 11:23:32 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l0hs6dF5o27U1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:43:26 on Sun, 14
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 17:54:56 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l0fnbiFoavjU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:08:34 on Sat, 13
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan >>>>>> 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail >>>>>>>> appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said >>>>>>>> for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the >>>>>>>> current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are >>>>>>>> put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each >>>>>>>> organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences? >>>>>>>> For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be >>>>>>>> delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be >>>>>>>> scrapped, wouldn't it?
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’)
provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank >>>>>>> elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify
copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car >>>>>>> there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last >>>>>>> time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of
‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the >>>>>>> queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but >>>>>>> I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies -
including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document >>>>>> by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at >>>>>> approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened >>>>>> to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on >>>>>> Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on >>>>>> Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on
Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver >>>>>> at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline. >>>>>
sender. Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered
tomorrow?" and was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are >>>>> a well-known feature of all courier services. And there is zero
reason nowadays that they should correlate with PO opening times.
It's mis-selling under whatever the Trades Description Act is called
this week. If you ask for the "next day service" when it's impossible, >>>> the counter staff should lift their skirt and explain why the sender
needs to pay more than they originally expected.
If the sender had asked for the "next day service" they should have offered >>> him first class post but pointed out it wasn't guaranteed.
They asked for their flagship product advertised as next-day delivery.
Without the seller saying "in fact, if we watch the dominoes fall, will
be next Tuesday, not tomorrow - Friday. It's perhaps a little surprising
they didn't try to extract the extra fee for delivering on a Saturday.
In the event it would have probably worked better. It is perhaps more
likely that the sender asked for registered post,
No, they would never have heard the term, which was obsolete about 15yrs
ago. And was for a different aspect of the product, viz: We'll try to
make sure it actually gets there, and isn't stolen en-route (or if it is
stolen, we'll have a fairly good idea who the perp was).
The delivery terms were substantially identical
and it was recommended, and, ISTR, advertised, for guaranteed******************
next day delivery.
You don't seem to be listening. First Class is unreliable, with only
73.7% making it on time.
<https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2023/royal-mail-fined-for-missing-delivery-targets>
And in rural areas, they can't even be bothered to delivery every day,
so we often get what's clearly an accumulated backlog. Which is why they
can charge 5x as much for their flagship product.
Better a 70% chance of delivery on Friday, and a non-negligible chance of >delivery on Saturday than a certainty of non-delivery until Tuesday. But of >course a well-advised sender would have paid for Saturday delivery.
I can only say that had I been sending such a package, and I have been
in exactly the same situation, I would have done so.
In message <l0i261F6r5fU1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:25:37 on Sun, 14
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
You don't seem to be listening. First Class is unreliable, with only
73.7% making it on time.
<https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2023/royal-mail-fined-for-missing-delivery-targets>
And in rural areas, they can't even be bothered to delivery every day,
so we often get what's clearly an accumulated backlog. Which is why they >>> can charge 5x as much for their flagship product.
Better a 70% chance of delivery on Friday, and a non-negligible chance of
delivery on Saturday than a certainty of non-delivery until Tuesday. But of >> course a well-advised sender would have paid for Saturday delivery.
And what I'm saying is the clerk at the Post Office FAILED to provide
that advice.
I can only say that had I been sending such a package, and I have been
in exactly the same situation, I would have done so.
In message <l0i1rbF6nvvU1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:19:55 on Sun, 14
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 14 Jan 2024 at 11:23:32 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l0hs6dF5o27U1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:43:26 on Sun, 14
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 17:54:56 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>
In message <l0fnbiFoavjU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:08:34 on Sat, 13 >>>>> Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>>
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan >>>>>>> 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail >>>>>>>>> appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said >>>>>>>>> for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the >>>>>>>>> current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are >>>>>>>>> put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each >>>>>>>>> organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences? >>>>>>>>> For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class letter will be
delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would have to be
scrapped, wouldn't it?
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’)
provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank >>>>>>>> elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify >>>>>>>> copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car >>>>>>>> there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last >>>>>>>> time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of
‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the >>>>>>>> queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but >>>>>>>> I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies -
including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a >>>>>>> fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent document
by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at >>>>>>> approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened >>>>>>> to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on >>>>>>> Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't apply on
Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on >>>>>>> Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver >>>>>>> at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline. >>>>>>
sender. Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered
tomorrow?" and was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are >>>>>> a well-known feature of all courier services. And there is zero
reason nowadays that they should correlate with PO opening times.
It's mis-selling under whatever the Trades Description Act is called >>>>> this week. If you ask for the "next day service" when it's impossible, >>>>> the counter staff should lift their skirt and explain why the sender >>>>> needs to pay more than they originally expected.
If the sender had asked for the "next day service" they should have offered
him first class post but pointed out it wasn't guaranteed.
They asked for their flagship product advertised as next-day delivery.
Without the seller saying "in fact, if we watch the dominoes fall, will
be next Tuesday, not tomorrow - Friday. It's perhaps a little surprising >>> they didn't try to extract the extra fee for delivering on a Saturday.
In the event it would have probably worked better. It is perhaps more
likely that the sender asked for registered post,
No, they would never have heard the term, which was obsolete about 15yrs >>> ago. And was for a different aspect of the product, viz: We'll try to
make sure it actually gets there, and isn't stolen en-route (or if it is >>> stolen, we'll have a fairly good idea who the perp was).
The delivery terms were substantially identical
Yes, I agree. But like the long obsolete "Recorded Delivery" has been rebranded.
and it was recommended, and, ISTR, advertised, for guaranteed******************
next day delivery.
An expression some seem to be in denial about.
"Guaranteed delivery next day by 1pm or your money
back".
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
The reason it's called "Special Delivery", by the way is because back in<snip>
the day they'd send someone out from the local sorting office with each
item separately, as soon as it was received from the regional sorting
office.
In message <uo0hl5$dul7$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:50 on Sun, 14 Jan
2024, soup <invalid@invalid.com> remarked:
On 14/01/2024 11:23, Roland Perry wrote:
They asked for their flagship product advertised as next-day
delivery. Without the seller saying "in fact, if we watch the
dominoes fall, will be next Tuesday, not tomorrow - Friday.
Is it advertised as 'next day' or is it 'next working day'(working day
generally accepted as being Mon-Fri)?
I'm so sorry your Google-Fu let you down.
But let me help you: "Guaranteed delivery next day by 1pm or your money back".
Obviously (to anyone with two seconds of thought)there is a cut off
time, or do you feel next working day should be accepted for delivery"
the next day" up till 23:59 ?
Up until the sub-post-office closes would not be an unreasonable
expectation.
On 14 Jan 2024 at 18:19:30 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l0i1rbF6nvvU1@mid.individual.net>, at 12:19:55 on Sun, 14
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 14 Jan 2024 at 11:23:32 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <l0hs6dF5o27U1@mid.individual.net>, at 10:43:26 on Sun, 14
Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 17:54:56 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>
In message <l0fnbiFoavjU1@mid.individual.net>, at 15:08:34 on Sat, 13 >>>>>> Jan 2024, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> remarked:
On 13 Jan 2024 at 14:25:45 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>It's mis-selling under whatever the Trades Description Act is called >>>>>> this week. If you ask for the "next day service" when it's impossible, >>>>>> the counter staff should lift their skirt and explain why the sender >>>>>> needs to pay more than they originally expected.
In message <unu2pr$3uoq4$1@dont-email.me>, at 13:22:03 on Sat, 13 Jan >>>>>>>> 2024, Brian <noinv@lid.org> remarked:I cannot see that that is the fault of anyone except the original >>>>>>> sender. Unless they explicitly asked: "Will it be delivered
Nick Odell <nickodell49@yahoo.ca> wrote:
There was no General Post Office before 1660.
Now, each of its modern-day components are in trouble. Royal Mail >>>>>>>>>> appears to be teetering towards bankruptcy and the same could be said
for The Post Office because the weight of the consequences of the >>>>>>>>>> current scandal could be enormous unless extraordinary measures are >>>>>>>>>> put in place.
Supposing the government just held up its hands and allowed each >>>>>>>>>> organisation to fail? What would be some of the legal consequences? >>>>>>>>>> For instance, the presumption in law that a First Class >>>>>>>>>>letter will be
delivered and in a timely way (already anachronistic) would >>>>>>>>>>have to be
scrapped, wouldn't it?
The issue isn’t so much legal as Social / practical.
In some areas, the Post Office ( as in the local ‘shop’) >>>>>>>>> provides the only local bank facility - even for those who bank >>>>>>>>> elsewhere.
The PO also provide a host of other services. They will certify >>>>>>>>> copies of documents. I believe you can still ‘tax’ your car >>>>>>>>> there. I’m not sure about pensions etc these days but the last >>>>>>>>> time I visited our local one, there seemed to be a number of >>>>>>>>> ‘elderly people’ collecting money - or at least a lot in the >>>>>>>>> queue. ( I know you can have your pension paid into your bank but >>>>>>>>> I don’t know if you must do this,)
The PO also act as ‘agents’ for a number of companies -
including Amazon etc (My reason for visiting mainly.)
The Horizon mess needs fixing but we need the PO.
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a >>>>>>>> fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
But they don't always get it right... someone sent me an urgent >>>>>>>>document
by "Special Delivery Next Day" service, but failed to mention that at >>>>>>>> approx 4pm it was after the last-posting-time for such things (happened
to be a Thursday), so was deemed to be posted at start of business on >>>>>>>> Friday.
They also forgot to mention that the "Next Day" promise doesn't >>>>>>>>apply on
Saturdays unless you pay an extra fee.
iirc, that Monday was a bank holiday, so it arrived at midday on >>>>>>>> Tuesday. At which point I was forced[tm] to sign it and hand-deliver >>>>>>>> at considerable expense and inconvenience to meet a legal deadline. >>>>>>>
tomorrow?" and was told by the staff "Yes". Last posting times are >>>>>>> a well-known feature of all courier services. And there is zero >>>>>>> reason nowadays that they should correlate with PO opening times. >>>>>>
If the sender had asked for the "next day service" they should
have offered
him first class post but pointed out it wasn't guaranteed.
They asked for their flagship product advertised as next-day delivery. >>>> Without the seller saying "in fact, if we watch the dominoes fall, will >>>> be next Tuesday, not tomorrow - Friday. It's perhaps a little surprising >>>> they didn't try to extract the extra fee for delivering on a Saturday. >>>>
In the event it would have probably worked better. It is perhaps more >>>>> likely that the sender asked for registered post,
No, they would never have heard the term, which was obsolete about 15yrs >>>> ago. And was for a different aspect of the product, viz: We'll try to
make sure it actually gets there, and isn't stolen en-route (or if it is >>>> stolen, we'll have a fairly good idea who the perp was).
The delivery terms were substantially identical
Yes, I agree. But like the long obsolete "Recorded Delivery" has been
rebranded.
and it was recommended, and, ISTR, advertised, for guaranteed******************
next day delivery.
An expression some seem to be in denial about.
It was never available until 23.59 on the preceding day.
You don't seem to be listening. First Class is unreliable, with only
73.7% making it on time.
<https://www.ofcom.org.uk/news-centre/2023/royal-mail-fined-for-missing-delivery-targets>
And in rural areas, they can't even be bothered to delivery every day, >>>> so we often get what's clearly an accumulated backlog. Which is why they >>>> can charge 5x as much for their flagship product.
Better a 70% chance of delivery on Friday, and a non-negligible chance of >>> delivery on Saturday than a certainty of non-delivery until Tuesday. But of >>> course a well-advised sender would have paid for Saturday delivery.
And what I'm saying is the clerk at the Post Office FAILED to provide
that advice.
I am not sure that they can always be expected to provide it unasked.
On 13/01/2024 14:25, Roland Perry wrote:
<snip>
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a >>fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
OT, but are you aware that the postman will pick up parcels if booked
online? Usually a free service.
Since that was introduced, I can eBay stuff which isn't worth the time
taken to visit the PO.
On 14 Jan 2024 at 17:49:39 GMT, "Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote:
In message <uo0hl5$dul7$1@dont-email.me>, at 11:47:50 on Sun, 14 Jan
2024, soup <invalid@invalid.com> remarked:
On 14/01/2024 11:23, Roland Perry wrote:
They asked for their flagship product advertised as next-day
delivery. Without the seller saying "in fact, if we watch the
dominoes fall, will be next Tuesday, not tomorrow - Friday.
Is it advertised as 'next day' or is it 'next working day'(working day
generally accepted as being Mon-Fri)?
I'm so sorry your Google-Fu let you down.
But let me help you: "Guaranteed delivery next day by 1pm or your money
back".
Obviously (to anyone with two seconds of thought)there is a cut off
time, or do you feel next working day should be accepted for delivery"
the next day" up till 23:59 ?
Up until the sub-post-office closes would not be an unreasonable
expectation.
It would be about as reasonable as supposing there is always going to a train >to one's arbitrary destination while the ticket office is open,
or that there
will always be a local chemist open while a GP surgery is open.
In other words, I cannot see why anyone would suppose that Royal Mail
would always arrange that all its services are available while any
branch of a completely independent organisation happens to be open.
In message <uo1q0g$kflt$1@dont-email.me>, at 23:16:30 on Sun, 14 Jan
2024, Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> remarked:
On 13/01/2024 14:25, Roland Perry wrote:
<snip>
The main reason I use Post Offices is to send letter/packets at a
fraction of the cost courier companies would demand.
OT, but are you aware that the postman will pick up parcels if booked
online? Usually a free service.
Yes, I am aware, but sadly they don't appear to be bothered to visit us
even every weekday. And then there's the risk I'll be out on some other errand the time they do bother to call. So I would rather take it to the sub-PO which is only a 2 minute walk away.
(I have always had this thing about if living urban, pick somewhere that
if not on the actual High Street, is very very close; that level of convenience trumps any consideration about the purchase price of
otherwise compliant housing out in the retail-tumbleweed suburbs).
Since that was introduced, I can eBay stuff which isn't worth the time
taken to visit the PO.
I've been eBaying things in and out for over 20yrs, so need little
advice on how to suck eggs.
sadly [Royal Mail] don't appear to be bothered to visit us even every
weekday.
On Sun, 14 Jan 2024 08:16:39 +0000, Roland Perry <roland@perry.uk>
wrote:
<snip>
The reason it's called "Special Delivery", by the way is because back in >>the day they'd send someone out from the local sorting office with each >>item separately, as soon as it was received from the regional sorting >>office.<snip>
Perhaps, when the new, Phoenix Post Office and Resurrected Royal Mail
rise from the ashes of the old, there will be an opportunity to
Deliveroo-ise (or UberEats-ise - other bicycle delivery services are >available) the special delivery service and Make Delivery Special
Again.
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