It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's
possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through
them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

If someone worked on the site (say a motel) would they be permitted to
access the site via the "back door" so to speak.

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On 13 Dec 2023 at 19:15:35 GMT, "Jethro_uk" <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

If someone worked on the site (say a motel) would they be permitted to
access the site via the "back door" so to speak.

I don't know the relevant law, but I lived near one about 20 years ago and
when I first move there the exit from the car park into the minor road had no entry signs (presumably on private property rather than allowed by a TRO)
which you simply had to ignore to get to the minor road (including a minor
road bridge over the motorway that led to the opposite side services).


Later they put up a barrier so users needed a key, or possibly at shift
changes an attendant. This suggests that the route was only protected by the private law of trespass. Obviously it would be potentially dangerous both on the services site and the local minor roads if the route was allowed to
develop into a new motorway exit, but I really don't know if there is any criminal law to prevent it.


--
Roger Hayter

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On 13/12/2023 19:15, Jethro_uk wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

If someone worked on the site (say a motel) would they be permitted to
access the site via the "back door" so to speak.

Clacket Lane (m25) North Size, the link road has a standard "No entry"
sign, but also has a sign about accessing a local hotel, outside the
service station. There is also a barrier, I think, from memory that the
barrier was open last time I checked.

URL Showing signpost at Clacket Lane:

<https://www.google.com/maps/@51.2741729,0.0403642,3a,15y,81.56h,84.8t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sBxjtto-lqtwZ_9LqmsASjg!2e0!7i16384!8i8192?entry=ttu>

Personally I wouldn't risk using it as a backdoor due to the possibility
of a camera fine.


A general discussion of motorway services rear access is given in this
link.

<https://motorwayservices.uk/Rear_Access>

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On 13/12/2023 19:15, Jethro_uk wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

They are private property, so using them would be trespass, rather than
a traffic offence. The service area operators are required, as part of
their licence, to ensure that all access through them is controlled and
only authorised people use them.

If someone worked on the site (say a motel) would they be permitted to
access the site via the "back door" so to speak.

Motor service area staff are among those normally authorised to use
them, along with deliveries to the service area, emergency services, contractors working on the site and Highways Agency staff.


--
Colin Bignell

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On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:15:35 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
<jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's >possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through >them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

Before M1 J21a was built I was one of those who sometimes used the
private road to LFE services for access to/from the motorway. In the
mornings there would be a steady stream of cars. There were tales that
on some days people were stopped to check that they had valid access
but at this distance in time I couldn't say if the caution was by
police or security. I think that it was 'said' that it was the police
doing the stopping but I don't know if this was correct.

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Peter Johnson wrote:

Before M1 J21a was built I was one of those who sometimes used the
private road to LFE services for access to/from the motorway. In the
mornings there would be a steady stream of cars. There were tales that
on some days people were stopped to check that they had valid access
but at this distance in time I couldn't say if the caution was by
police or security. I think that it was 'said' that it was the police
doing the stopping but I don't know if this was correct.

I remember hearing the same about LFE late 80's

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On 2023-12-13, Pancho wrote:

On 13/12/2023 19:15, Jethro_uk wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's
possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through
them.

...

A general discussion of motorway services rear access is given in this
link.

<https://motorwayservices.uk/Rear_Access>

"Even if the unauthorised traffic is only trying to use the
facilities"

Given that most UK motorway service areas are hellholes unashamedly
aimed at gouging the public, you'd have to be pretty desperate to want
to use them if not already on the motorway.


"There is lots of evidence of these roads being used to divert traffic
away from the motorway, and many operators have placed advertising
signs along them to attract passing trade."

That OTOH could be helpful to motorway users who otherwise have to
resort to the miserable facilities in the service areas.

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On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 22:52:40 +0000, Colin Bignell
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:

On 13/12/2023 19:15, Jethro_uk wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's
possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through
them.

If someone worked on the site (say a motel) would they be permitted to
access the site via the "back door" so to speak.

Motor service area staff are among those normally authorised to use
them, along with deliveries to the service area, emergency services, >contractors working on the site and Highways Agency staff.

Overnight customers of an on-site motel are often allowed to use them, as
well. As you say, it's a civil trespass issue, not a highways offence, so
the operators can give people permission if that's reasonably necessary.

Mark

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On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:29:44 +0000, Peter Johnson
<peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:15:35 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk ><jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's >>possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through >>them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

Before M1 J21a was built I was one of those who sometimes used the
private road to LFE services for access to/from the motorway.

So many people uses to use the back entrance from Northamton Services onto
the A43/A5123 that they eventually gave in and built Junction 15A there.

Mark

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On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 20:26:10 +0000, Mark Goodge wrote:

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 16:29:44 +0000, Peter Johnson
<peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:15:35 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk >><jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's >>>possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off)
through them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s >>>definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an >>>offence ?

Before M1 J21a was built I was one of those who sometimes used the
private road to LFE services for access to/from the motorway.

So many people uses to use the back entrance from Northamton Services
onto the A43/A5123 that they eventually gave in and built Junction 15A
there.

The matter is of passing interest to me, as I live 5 mins from such a
location. If I use it I can shave 15-20 minutes off a journey as
advertised by Google Maps.

However the local FB group has flared up with people noting that the
(always present, but never raised) bollards had been raised, and signage
had been replaced warning of penalties for unauthorised used. Which does suggest this is "merely" a "civil matter sir"

In the same FM reportage, some people have said (from friends/familiy who
work around the site) that the same firm that runs the ULEZ cameras is
now covering the services area. This has been backed up by some people
claiming to have received a penalty notice for "overstaying", as the
cameras picked up their entrance, but not their exit.

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On 14/12/2023 08:26 pm, Mark Goodge wrote:

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's
possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through >>> them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

Before M1 J21a was built I was one of those who sometimes used the
private road to LFE services for access to/from the motorway.

So many people uses to use the back entrance from Northamton Services onto the A43/A5123 that they eventually gave in and built Junction 15A there.

Was that the one originally called Rothersthorpe?

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On 14/12/2023 04:29 pm, Peter Johnson wrote:

On Wed, 13 Dec 2023 19:15:35 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's
possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through
them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

Before M1 J21a was built I was one of those who sometimes used the
private road to LFE services for access to/from the motorway. In the
mornings there would be a steady stream of cars. There were tales that
on some days people were stopped to check that they had valid access
but at this distance in time I couldn't say if the caution was by
police or security. I think that it was 'said' that it was the police
doing the stopping but I don't know if this was correct.

A long time ago (fifty years), there was a permanent police presence at Knutsford Services on the M6. I can remember asking and gaining their permission to leave southbound and re-enter northbound in order not to
have to travel all the way down to Holmes Chapel (I had been calling at
the repair garage at the services - remember those?).

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On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 23:49:46 +0000, JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:

On 14/12/2023 08:26 pm, Mark Goodge wrote:

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's
possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through >>>> them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

Before M1 J21a was built I was one of those who sometimes used the
private road to LFE services for access to/from the motorway.

So many people uses to use the back entrance from Northamton Services onto >> the A43/A5123 that they eventually gave in and built Junction 15A there.

Was that the one originally called Rothersthorpe?

Yes, it is.

Mark

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On 16/12/2023 09:26 pm, Mark Goodge wrote:

On Thu, 14 Dec 2023 23:49:46 +0000, JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:

On 14/12/2023 08:26 pm, Mark Goodge wrote:

Peter Johnson <peter@parksidewood.nospam> wrote:

Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

It seems that some motorway service areas are laid out such that it's >>>>> possible to access the local roads (and therefore get on or off) through >>>>> them.

Putting aside what the generic the warning signs say, is there s
definitive cite in the various road traffic laws that make this an
offence ?

Before M1 J21a was built I was one of those who sometimes used the
private road to LFE services for access to/from the motorway.

So many people uses to use the back entrance from Northamton Services onto >>> the A43/A5123 that they eventually gave in and built Junction 15A there.

Was that the one originally called Rothersthorpe?

Yes, it is.

Thanks. I wondered what had happened to it and wasn't totally certain of
the location.

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