Do stepped down/spent offences result in a police certificate saying "No trace", or "No live trace"?

One ACPO document on the web (FOI Request number 000204/12) says:
"Applicants that have had offences stepped down as part of the Police Certificate Process will receive a Certificate which may include the terms 'No trace', 'No live trace' or Further Information Stepped Down."

OTOH the ACRO describes:
No trace - You have NO convictions, cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC.
Summary of Convictions - You have a criminal record and all your convictions are shown on your certificate.
No live trace - You have a criminal record, however this information does not appear on the certificate because it has been stepped down.*
Further information stepped down - You have a criminal record, however only relevant criminal record information appears on the certificate because some convictions have been stepped down.*

So my understanding is that:
No trace = No criminal record whatsoever, including spent or stepped down offences
No live trace = Has a criminal record, but the convictions/cautions/etc were stepped down/spent.

Is this correct? Can anyone please clarify?

Are there any circumstances where someone with a criminal record may have "No trace"? E.g. a pardon or after they reach 100 years of age?

Cheers.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 30/11/2023 12:26 am, George Williams wrote:

Do stepped down/spent offences result in a police certificate saying "No trace", or "No live trace"?

One ACPO document on the web (FOI Request number 000204/12) says:
"Applicants that have had offences stepped down as part of the Police Certificate Process will receive a Certificate which may include the terms 'No trace', 'No live trace' or Further Information Stepped Down."

OTOH the ACRO describes:
No trace - You have NO convictions, cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC.
Summary of Convictions - You have a criminal record and all your convictions are shown on your certificate.
No live trace - You have a criminal record, however this information does not appear on the certificate because it has been stepped down.*
Further information stepped down - You have a criminal record, however only relevant criminal record information appears on the certificate because some convictions have been stepped down.*

So my understanding is that:
No trace = No criminal record whatsoever, including spent or stepped down offences
No live trace = Has a criminal record, but the convictions/cautions/etc were stepped down/spent.

Is this correct? Can anyone please clarify?

Are there any circumstances where someone with a criminal record may have "No trace"? E.g. a pardon or after they reach 100 years of age?

Cheers.

Is every criminal conviction, even a "urinating in a public place", from
many years ago, recorded on the PNC?

If not, it is possible to envisage a conviction recorded somewhere, but
only in paper form, meaning that a search on the PNC will return "No Trace".

After all, the explanatory note only says "No trace - You have NO
convictions, cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC". It doesn't go further than that.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 15:55:10 -0800, George Williams wrote:

On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 12:58:33 AM UTC+8, JNugent wrote:

On 30/11/2023 12:26 am, George Williams wrote:

Do stepped down/spent offences result in a police certificate saying
"No trace", or "No live trace"?

One ACPO document on the web (FOI Request number 000204/12) says:
"Applicants that have had offences stepped down as part of the Police
Certificate Process will receive a Certificate which may include the
terms 'No trace', 'No live trace' or Further Information Stepped
Down."

OTOH the ACRO describes:
No trace - You have NO convictions, cautions, final warnings or
reprimands recorded on PNC.
Summary of Convictions - You have a criminal record and all your
convictions are shown on your certificate.
No live trace - You have a criminal record, however this information
does not appear on the certificate because it has been stepped down.*
Further information stepped down - You have a criminal record,
however only relevant criminal record information appears on the
certificate because some convictions have been stepped down.*

So my understanding is that:
No trace = No criminal record whatsoever, including spent or stepped
down offences No live trace = Has a criminal record, but the
convictions/cautions/etc were stepped down/spent.

Is this correct? Can anyone please clarify?

Are there any circumstances where someone with a criminal record may
have "No trace"? E.g. a pardon or after they reach 100 years of age?

Cheers.

Is every criminal conviction, even a "urinating in a public place",
from many years ago, recorded on the PNC?

If not, it is possible to envisage a conviction recorded somewhere, but
only in paper form, meaning that a search on the PNC will return "No
Trace".

After all, the explanatory note only says "No trace - You have NO
convictions, cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC".
It doesn't go further than that.

I thought the PNC was a unified, national database, so every conviction/caution/etc. gets recorded there?

There are lots of things I find myself thinking in 2023 that are wrong by decades. The fact that email use has clearly peaked as everyone scrambles
to return to the old days of phones.

And forms. Don't forget forms.

In black ink.

And *posted*

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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"George Williams" <georgewilliamshastings@gmail.com> wrote in message news:41d8c3ad-0c9b-45f4-ad93-54ff4fbdc683n@googlegroups.com...

Do stepped down/spent offences result in a police certificate saying "No trace", or "No
live trace"?

One ACPO document on the web (FOI Request number 000204/12) says:
"Applicants that have had offences stepped down as part of the Police Certificate
Process
will receive a Certificate which may include the terms 'No trace', 'No live trace' or
Further
Information Stepped Down."

OTOH the ACRO describes:
No trace - You have NO convictions, cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on
PNC.
Summary of Convictions - You have a criminal record and all your convictions are shown
on your certificate.
No live trace - You have a criminal record, however this information does not appear on
the certificate because it has been stepped down.*
Further information stepped down - You have a criminal record, however only relevant
criminal record information appears on the certificate because some convictions have
been stepped down.*

So my understanding is that:
No trace = No criminal record whatsoever, including spent or stepped down offences
No live trace = Has a criminal record, but the convictions/cautions/etc were stepped
down/spent.

Is this correct? Can anyone please clarify?

The first ACPO document appear to be incorrect because if offences
have been stepped down then that "should" give rise to a "No Live
Trace" or "Further information Stepped Down" summary and certainly
*not* a "No Trace". (See final paragraph)


Whereas your summary of the ACRO information fully accords with
that given on this site

https://unlock.org.uk/advice/police-certificate/

However, what it does say in addition, is this

quote:

Can I get "No Live Trace" changed to "No Trace"?
Probably not. As mentioned in the question above, people with "No
Live Trace" can be concerned that others will know that this means
they have a criminal records.

The step-down process is not set out in legislation - so ACRO do
not legally have to operate it. For police certificates, the alternative
would be a certificate that contained all convictions and cautions.

Unfortunately, we think that any challenge to the fact that "No
Live Trace" suggests there is a criminal record on file is unlikely
to be successful.

: unquote

As you probably already know a standard application will cost £55.
As there appears to be no appeals process, it would seem there is nothing
to be lost in a person simply applying and seeing what transpires. As the
worst that can happen is that they'll be out of pocket by £55

Are there any circumstances where someone with a criminal record may

have "No trace"? E.g. a pardon or after they reach 100 years of age?

Doubtful

Apparently deletions can apply only to specific types of records; and none where Courts have been involved.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dna-early-deletion-guidance-and-application-form/guidance-record-deletion-accessible


bb

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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"JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote in message news:ksrphpFe2q1U1@mid.individual.net...

Is every criminal conviction, even a "urinating in a public place", from many years
ago, recorded on the PNC?

Apparently there's no need even for a criminal conviction

quote:

1.4.4 A PNC record also contains information about non-conviction outcomes including 'Not Guilty' adjudications, 'acquittals', 'discontinuances' and
'No Further Action' (NFA) disposals. In this Guidance non-con viction out
comes are referred to as a person's 'Event History'.

:unquote


https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dna-early-deletion-guidance-and-application-form/guidance-record-deletion-accessible

Googling this, suggests it is entirely correct. With most results being
from legal firms offering to try and have such records expunged. With what degree of success, isn't clear

If not, it is possible to envisage a conviction recorded somewhere, but only in paper
form, meaning that a search on the PNC will return "No Trace".

After all, the explanatory note only says "No trace - You have NO convictions,
cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC". It doesn't go further than
that.

Anything is possible, but this certainly isn't something any reasonable person should seek to rely on. Plastic surgery and a stolen passport would probably offer far better chances of success,


bb

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 30/11/2023 11:55 pm, George Williams wrote:

On Friday, December 1, 2023 at 12:58:33 AM UTC+8, JNugent wrote:

On 30/11/2023 12:26 am, George Williams wrote:

Do stepped down/spent offences result in a police certificate saying "No trace", or "No live trace"?

One ACPO document on the web (FOI Request number 000204/12) says:
"Applicants that have had offences stepped down as part of the Police Certificate Process will receive a Certificate which may include the terms 'No trace', 'No live trace' or Further Information Stepped Down."

OTOH the ACRO describes:
No trace - You have NO convictions, cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC.
Summary of Convictions - You have a criminal record and all your convictions are shown on your certificate.
No live trace - You have a criminal record, however this information does not appear on the certificate because it has been stepped down.*
Further information stepped down - You have a criminal record, however only relevant criminal record information appears on the certificate because some convictions have been stepped down.*

So my understanding is that:
No trace = No criminal record whatsoever, including spent or stepped down offences
No live trace = Has a criminal record, but the convictions/cautions/etc were stepped down/spent.

Is this correct? Can anyone please clarify?

Are there any circumstances where someone with a criminal record may have "No trace"? E.g. a pardon or after they reach 100 years of age?

Cheers.

Is every criminal conviction, even a "urinating in a public place", from
many years ago, recorded on the PNC?

If not, it is possible to envisage a conviction recorded somewhere, but
only in paper form, meaning that a search on the PNC will return "No Trace". >>
After all, the explanatory note only says "No trace - You have NO
convictions, cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC". It
doesn't go further than that.

I thought the PNC was a unified, national database, so every conviction/caution/etc. gets recorded there?

I don't think it's ever been quite that in respect of minor offences
dating from before the creation of the PNC.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 01/12/2023 03:27 pm, billy bookcase wrote:

"JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote in message news:ksrphpFe2q1U1@mid.individual.net...

Is every criminal conviction, even a "urinating in a public place", from many years
ago, recorded on the PNC?

Apparently there's no need even for a criminal conviction

quote:
1.4.4 A PNC record also contains information about non-conviction outcomes including 'Not Guilty' adjudications, 'acquittals', 'discontinuances' and
'No Further Action' (NFA) disposals. In this Guidance non-con viction out comes are referred to as a person's 'Event History'.
:unquote

See below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dna-early-deletion-guidance-and-application-form/guidance-record-deletion-accessible

Googling this, suggests it is entirely correct. With most results being
from legal firms offering to try and have such records expunged. With what degree of success, isn't clear

If not, it is possible to envisage a conviction recorded somewhere, but only in paper
form, meaning that a search on the PNC will return "No Trace".
After all, the explanatory note only says "No trace - You have NO convictions,
cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC". It doesn't go further than
that.

So "Not Guilty adjudications", 'acquittals' (to the extent that they can
be distinguished), 'discontinuances' and "No Further Action' disposals"
can exist on the PNC and still give rise to a "No Trace" report, which,
as stated above by a PP, only means "no trace" of convictions, cautions,
final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC.

Anything is possible, but this certainly isn't something any reasonable person
should seek to rely on. Plastic surgery and a stolen passport would probably offer far better chances of success,

:-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote in message news:ksuhqsF8la1U1@mid.individual.net...

On 01/12/2023 03:27 pm, billy bookcase wrote:

"JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote in message news:ksrphpFe2q1U1@mid.individual.net...

Is every criminal conviction, even a "urinating in a public place", from many years
ago, recorded on the PNC?

Apparently there's no need even for a criminal conviction

quote:
1.4.4 A PNC record also contains information about non-conviction outcomes >> including 'Not Guilty' adjudications, 'acquittals', 'discontinuances' and
'No Further Action' (NFA) disposals. In this Guidance non-con viction out
comes are referred to as a person's 'Event History'.
:unquote

See below.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/dna-early-deletion-guidance-and-application-form/guidance-record-deletion-accessible

Googling this, suggests it is entirely correct. With most results being
from legal firms offering to try and have such records expunged. With what >> degree of success, isn't clear

If not, it is possible to envisage a conviction recorded somewhere, but only in paper
form, meaning that a search on the PNC will return "No Trace".
After all, the explanatory note only says "No trace - You have NO convictions,
cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on PNC". It doesn't go further than
that.

So "Not Guilty adjudications", 'acquittals' (to the extent that they can be distinguished), 'discontinuances' and "No Further Action' disposals" can exist on the
PNC and still give rise to a "No Trace" report, which as stated above by a PP, only
means "no trace" of convictions, cautions, final warnings or reprimands recorded on
PNC.

Indeed. As confirmed by

https://unlock.org.uk/advice/police-certificate/

quote:

'No Trace' means that you have no convictions, reprimands, final warnings
or cautions held on the Police National Computer.

:unquote

However much more may be revealed in both Standard and Advanced DBS
checks

quote::

Someone who has been acquitted of a crime has no convictions and their DBS certificate will show that fact. [as confirmed above]

However, standard and enhanced DBS checks have a higher level of detail. Police may choose to disclose further information like arrests, intelligence or acquittals if they feel they are relevant. Whether or not something is
relevant will depend on the type of work under consideration.

:unquote

https://dbs-check.org.uk/disclosure-checks-and-acquittals/


bb

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