On 24/11/2023 17:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are
saying in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to
express a desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I
could do natively, I could be arrested ?
If breaching the guidelines they have handed out and also understood by either a police officer or somebody who complains to a police officer, potentially you could be. However, I suspect they are mainly concerned
with English and Arabic.
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
Which Eskimo language had you in mind?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying
in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 18:43:45 +0000, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 24/11/2023 17:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are
saying in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to
express a desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I
could do natively, I could be arrested ?
If breaching the guidelines they have handed out and also understood by
either a police officer or somebody who complains to a police officer,
potentially you could be. However, I suspect they are mainly concerned
with English and Arabic.
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
Which Eskimo language had you in mind?
Ideally one riddled with nuance.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying
in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying
in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
Yeah, a bit like the catholic church preaching in latin to a largely illiterate flock.
Yeah, a bit like the catholic church preaching in latin to a largely illiterate flock.
On 26/11/2023 16:45, sid wrote:
Yeah, a bit like the catholic church preaching in latin to a largely
illiterate flock.
When Charlemagne introduced that, it was because he ruled over a diverse number of peoples most of whom spoke one of the Romance languages. While
one such language was largely unintelligible to the speakers of another,
none had yet diverged so far from it that the people could not
understand Latin.
On 24/11/2023 17:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying
in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do
natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
I thought Eskimo was a racially derogatory term these days?
(the most recent willy one I've seen is a suggestion we should chop down
all the London Plane trees. Because they are a cross with the Oriental
Plane, and Oriental is derogatory)
On 2023-11-26, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:
On 24/11/2023 17:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying >>> in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do
natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
I thought Eskimo was a racially derogatory term these days?
It's... not great. Largely because it's a term imposed externally
on people who would not all consider themselves to be part of the
same group, and the etymology is unclear and might be insulting.
And my guess would be the people it refers to have long experience
of it being used to describe them by governments that did not treat
them terribly well.
(the most recent willy one I've seen is a suggestion we should chop down
all the London Plane trees. Because they are a cross with the Oriental
Plane, and Oriental is derogatory)
I think it's probably quite hard to offend a tree.
On 27/11/2023 00:12, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 26/11/2023 16:45, sid wrote:
Yeah, a bit like the catholic church preaching in latin to a largely
illiterate flock.
When Charlemagne introduced that, it was because he ruled over a
diverse number of peoples most of whom spoke one of the Romance
languages. While one such language was largely unintelligible to the
speakers of another, none had yet diverged so far from it that the
people could not understand Latin.
The U.S. Catholic website states that the use of Latin in the Mass was
not intended to be understood by the common people, but rather to
emphasize the sacredness of the liturgy and to unite the faithful in
prayer.
https://www.catholic.com/magazine/online-edition/latin-proficiency-is-part-of-a-balanced-priesthood
It's debatable as to the extent that uneducated people (in the time of Charlemagne) could understand the Latin, whatever their native language.
On 24/11/2023 17:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying
in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do
natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
I thought Eskimo was a racially derogatory term these days?
(the most recent willy one I've seen is a suggestion we should chop down
all the London Plane trees. Because they are a cross with the Oriental
Plane, and Oriental is derogatory)
It's debatable as to the extent that uneducated people (in the time of Charlemagne) could understand the Latin, whatever their native language.
On 24/11/2023 17:38, Jethro_uk wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying
in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do
natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
I thought Eskimo was a racially derogatory term these days?
On 27/11/2023 12:05, Bing AI wrote:
It's debatable as to the extent that uneducated people (in the time of
Charlemagne) could understand the Latin, whatever their native language.
I went to a school that has run as a charity for over 400 years. Its aim
was to teach "The pore scholars of the town". Latin was high on the list.
On 27/11/2023 12:05, Bing AI wrote:
It's debatable as to the extent that uneducated people (in the time of
Charlemagne) could understand the Latin, whatever their native
language.
I went to a school that has run as a charity for over 400 years. Its aim
was to teach "The pore scholars of the town". Latin was high on the
list.
A good working knowledge of Latin is invaluable in learning any other language.
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
[quoted text muted]
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European
ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in lunchtimes in
a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but unless
you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 11:23:16 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
[quoted text muted]
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European
ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in lunchtimes in
a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but unless
you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I dunno, if you like your history - particularly Roman - it's a handy
tool.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying
in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
On 28/11/2023 20:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 11:23:16 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
[quoted text muted]
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European
ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in lunchtimes in >>> a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but unless >>> you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I dunno, if you like your history - particularly Roman - it's a handy
tool.
About the only use I have found for it is deciphering some older parish registers when researching my family tree. Even then, it probably isn't essential.
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
A good working knowledge of Latin is invaluable in learning any other
language.
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European
ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in lunchtimes in
a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but unless
you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are saying
in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to express a
desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I could do
natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
You're expecting rationality?
Craig Muray has this story today: https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/11/banned-books/
"At Saturday???s great march in support of Palestine in London, police arrested members of the Communist Party of Great Britain Marxist-Leninist (CPGBML) for having a pamphlet on sale on their stall.
The ???illegal??? pamphlet is entitled Zionism: A Racist, Anti-Semitic and Reactionary Tool of Imperialism.
Just what is illegal about it, I do not know. The authorship is ascribed to the CPGBML. I have looked through it and it is scrupulous in distinguishing between zionism and judaism. Criticism of Israel and of the zionist movement is not anti-semitic.
I suspect what may have upset the authorities are the passages on collaboration between some leaders of the zionist movement and the Nazis."
He reproduces a copy of the police bail form too, so it's for real.
On 28/11/2023 22:26, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 28/11/2023 20:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 11:23:16 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
[quoted text muted]
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European
ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in
lunchtimes in
a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but
unless
you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I dunno, if you like your history - particularly Roman - it's a handy
tool.
About the only use I have found for it is deciphering some older
parish registers when researching my family tree. Even then, it
probably isn't essential.
Apparently though it is a good thing in that it helps literacy and other skills, and has an even bigger impact for the socially disadvantaged.
https://www.humanities.ox.ac.uk/article/how-learning-latin-could-change-your-life
On 28/11/2023 11:23, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
A good working knowledge of Latin is invaluable in learning any other
language.
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European
ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in lunchtimes
in a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but
unless you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I only did one and a half years of Latin. I would rather have done more
Latin than French.
I suppose I'm more likely to want to speak to a Frenchman in his native language than an ancient Roman, but only marginally.
A good working knowledge of Latin is invaluable in learning any other language.
On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 19:41:41 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote...
A good working knowledge of Latin is invaluable in learning any other
language.
I can't remember any of the Latin I learned at school, but when I learnt German later in life I found I understood the grammar much better than
my classmates.
On 28/11/2023 22:26, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 28/11/2023 20:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 11:23:16 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
[quoted text muted]
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European
ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in
lunchtimes in
a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but
unless
you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I dunno, if you like your history - particularly Roman - it's a handy
tool.
About the only use I have found for it is deciphering some older
parish registers when researching my family tree. Even then, it
probably isn't essential.
Apparently though it is a good thing in that it helps literacy and other skills, and has an even bigger impact for the socially disadvantaged.
https://www.humanities.ox.ac.uk/article/how-learning-latin-could-change-your-life
On 29/11/2023 15:41, Tim Jackson wrote:
On Mon, 27 Nov 2023 19:41:41 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk wrote...
I can't remember any of the Latin I learned at school, but when I
A good working knowledge of Latin is invaluable in learning any other
language.
learnt
German later in life I found I understood the grammar much better than
my classmates.
Which seems slightly odd as German is not a Romance language.
On 29/11/2023 11:56, Max Demian wrote:
On 28/11/2023 11:23, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
A good working knowledge of Latin is invaluable in learning any other
language.
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European
ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in lunchtimes
in a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but
unless you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I only did one and a half years of Latin. I would rather have done
more Latin than French.
I suppose I'm more likely to want to speak to a Frenchman in his
native language than an ancient Roman, but only marginally.
French is also very useful in much of North Africa, for those of use who don't speak Arabic.
On 29/11/2023 14:05, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 29/11/2023 11:56, Max Demian wrote:
On 28/11/2023 11:23, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
A good working knowledge of Latin is invaluable in learning any other >>>>> language.
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of
non-European ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade
in lunchtimes in a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but
unless you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I only did one and a half years of Latin. I would rather have done
more Latin than French.
I suppose I'm more likely to want to speak to a Frenchman in his
native language than an ancient Roman, but only marginally.
French is also very useful in much of North Africa, for those of use
who don't speak Arabic.
If... The same applies to any foreign language. But, in Europe, English
is still best for countries generally.
On 29 Nov 2023 at 09:09:37 GMT, "Handsome Jack" <Handsome Jack> wrote:
Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-67517410You're expecting rationality?
I am intrigued by the notion they will be policing what people are
saying in languages other than English. Which suggests were I to
express a desire for a ceasefire in Italian, French or Spanish which I
could do natively, I could be arrested ?
What happens if I used Esperato ? Or Eskimo ?
Craig Muray has this story today:
https://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2023/11/banned-books/
"At Saturday???s great march in support of Palestine in London, police
arrested members of the Communist Party of Great Britain
Marxist-Leninist (CPGBML) for having a pamphlet on sale on their stall.
The ???illegal??? pamphlet is entitled Zionism: A Racist, Anti-Semitic
and Reactionary Tool of Imperialism.
Just what is illegal about it, I do not know. The authorship is
ascribed to the CPGBML. I have looked through it and it is scrupulous
in distinguishing between zionism and judaism. Criticism of Israel and
of the zionist movement is not anti-semitic.
I suspect what may have upset the authorities are the passages on
collaboration between some leaders of the zionist movement and the
Nazis."
He reproduces a copy of the police bail form too, so it's for real.
I like the bail condition not to deviate from any *proscribed*
procession route.
But seriously this seems to be a gross attempt at political censorship.
On 29/11/2023 17:53, Max Demian wrote:
On 29/11/2023 14:05, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 29/11/2023 11:56, Max Demian wrote:
On 28/11/2023 11:23, Vir Campestris wrote:
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but
unless you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I only did one and a half years of Latin. I would rather have done
more Latin than French.
I suppose I'm more likely to want to speak to a Frenchman in his
native language than an ancient Roman, but only marginally.
French is also very useful in much of North Africa, for those of use
who don't speak Arabic.
If... The same applies to any foreign language. But, in Europe,
English is still best for countries generally.
IME, in France you get a much better reception if you speak in French
and observe local customs, like shaking hands when you greet people. Otherwise you come over as impolite and politeness is important to the French.
On 29/11/2023 17:53, Max Demian wrote:<snip>
If... The same applies to any foreign language. But, in Europe,
English is still best for countries generally.
IME, in France you get a much better reception if you speak in French
and observe local customs, like shaking hands when you greet people. Otherwise you come over as impolite and politeness is important to the French.
On 29/11/2023 10:11, kat wrote:
On 28/11/2023 22:26, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 28/11/2023 20:16, Jethro_uk wrote:
On Tue, 28 Nov 2023 11:23:16 +0000, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 27/11/2023 19:41, Jethro_uk wrote:
[quoted text muted]
My wife agrees. But then she's fluent in four languages and has a
working knowledge of several more. Including a couple of non-European >>>>> ones. For her Latin (which she did to O level top grade in lunchtimes in >>>>> a year) was worth learning.
I only learned French. I know a few words in other languages, but unless >>>>> you are doing linguistics or such Latin is a waste of time.
I dunno, if you like your history - particularly Roman - it's a handy
tool.
About the only use I have found for it is deciphering some older parish
registers when researching my family tree. Even then, it probably isn't
essential.
Apparently though it is a good thing in that it helps literacy and other
skills, and has an even bigger impact for the socially disadvantaged.
https://www.humanities.ox.ac.uk/article/how-learning-latin-could-change-your-life
I suspect that somebody from the Faculty of Classics at Oxford University might
have a slightly biased view. :-)
On 29/11/2023 19:49, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 29/11/2023 17:53, Max Demian wrote:<snip>
If... The same applies to any foreign language. But, in Europe,
English is still best for countries generally.
IME, in France you get a much better reception if you speak in French
and observe local customs, like shaking hands when you greet people.
Otherwise you come over as impolite and politeness is important to the
French.
My experience is that speaking a little French in France helps. A lot.
At least you've tried. They have a bit of a chip-on-shoulder attitude to English.
But in the rest of the world? Everywhere I've been English (or perhaps American) is known to all the educated people, and a fair smattering of
the rest of the population. That's a dozen or so countries, mostly
Europe and south Asia.
Andy
On 29/11/2023 19:49, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 29/11/2023 17:53, Max Demian wrote:<snip>
If... The same applies to any foreign language. But, in Europe,
English is still best for countries generally.
IME, in France you get a much better reception if you speak in French
and observe local customs, like shaking hands when you greet people.
Otherwise you come over as impolite and politeness is important to the
French.
My experience is that speaking a little French in France helps. A lot.
At least you've tried.
They have a bit of a chip-on-shoulder attitude to
English.
But in the rest of the world? Everywhere I've been English (or perhaps American) is known to all the educated people, and a fair smattering of
the rest of the population. That's a dozen or so countries, mostly
Europe and south Asia.
On 30/11/2023 16:29, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 29/11/2023 19:49, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 29/11/2023 17:53, Max Demian wrote:<snip>
My experience is that speaking a little French in France helps. A lot.IME, in France you get a much better reception if you speak in French
If... The same applies to any foreign language. But, in Europe,
English is still best for countries generally.
and observe local customs, like shaking hands when you greet people.
Otherwise you come over as impolite and politeness is important to the
French.
At least you've tried.
Which is part of my point about coming over as polite.
They have a bit of a chip-on-shoulder attitude to English.
A German who had lived in France for several decades told me that it is
that the French don't like to use a language if they are not confident
that they will get it right. Showing them that your French is worse than their English makes them more comfortable about speaking English.
But in the rest of the world? Everywhere I've been English (or perhaps
American) is known to all the educated people, and a fair smattering of
the rest of the population. That's a dozen or so countries, mostly
Europe and south Asia.
IME, of spending much of the past 50 years visiting mostly Europe, but
also North Africa and Turkey, if you stick to areas where foreigners are common, English will serve you well, although German can be more useful
in some tourist areas and certainly in Turkey.
However, many years ago, when my partner had her handbag snatched in Barcelona and was injured when she was pulled over, the doctor at the emergency clinic was able to speak to her in German, but not English and
the the police had to bring in an interpreter to take our statements.
Similarly, when she had a bad fall in an icy Rouen, nobody in the
hospital A&E spoke anything but French. Fortunately, while I have never
been fluent in French, I do speak it well enough to discuss a broken
down central heating system with a boiler repairer, an oil leak in the
power steering of my car with a garage foreman and to be instructed in
giving heparin injections to my partner as part of her aftercare
following the fall.
On Fri, 01 Dec 2023 07:55:47 +0000, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 30/11/2023 16:29, Vir Campestris wrote:
On 29/11/2023 19:49, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 29/11/2023 17:53, Max Demian wrote:<snip>
My experience is that speaking a little French in France helps. A lot.IME, in France you get a much better reception if you speak in French
If... The same applies to any foreign language. But, in Europe,
English is still best for countries generally.
and observe local customs, like shaking hands when you greet people.
Otherwise you come over as impolite and politeness is important to the >>>> French.
At least you've tried.
Which is part of my point about coming over as polite.
They have a bit of a chip-on-shoulder attitude to English.
A German who had lived in France for several decades told me that it is
that the French don't like to use a language if they are not confident
that they will get it right. Showing them that your French is worse than
their English makes them more comfortable about speaking English.
But in the rest of the world? Everywhere I've been English (or perhaps
American) is known to all the educated people, and a fair smattering of
the rest of the population. That's a dozen or so countries, mostly
Europe and south Asia.
IME, of spending much of the past 50 years visiting mostly Europe, but
also North Africa and Turkey, if you stick to areas where foreigners are
common, English will serve you well, although German can be more useful
in some tourist areas and certainly in Turkey.
However, many years ago, when my partner had her handbag snatched in
Barcelona and was injured when she was pulled over, the doctor at the
emergency clinic was able to speak to her in German, but not English and
the the police had to bring in an interpreter to take our statements.
Similarly, when she had a bad fall in an icy Rouen, nobody in the
hospital A&E spoke anything but French. Fortunately, while I have never
been fluent in French, I do speak it well enough to discuss a broken
down central heating system with a boiler repairer, an oil leak in the
power steering of my car with a garage foreman and to be instructed in
giving heparin injections to my partner as part of her aftercare
following the fall.
It is entirely possible to navigate a city using Google Translate to it's max.
(It's also possible to eavesdrop on people who insist on conducting their dealings in public at top volume. But that is another story).
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my poor German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't you
speak English?"
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 19:03:21 +0000, Les. Hayward wrote...
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my poor
German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't you
speak English?"
A woman I knew got a job in the Netherlands and decided to learn Dutch.
Her Dutch colleagues just asked "why?"
As to Swiss German, however, it is significantly different from high
German, both in pronunciation and vocabulary. For example, even in >German-speaking areas they say "merci" rather than "danke". And Zurich >airport at one time had screens saying Welcome, Willkommen, Bienvenue,
Gruezi (Gruezi is Swiss German; compare Gruess Gott in Bavaria).
In message <MPG.3fd3ebc530a7d9a0989f95@text.usenet.plus.net>, Tim
Jackson <news@timjackson.invalid> writes
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 19:03:21 +0000, Les. Hayward wrote...One of the main advantages of learning the language of a country where English is widely- and well-spoken is to be able to 'listen in' when
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my poor >>> German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't you
speak English?"
A woman I knew got a job in the Netherlands and decided to learn Dutch.
Her Dutch colleagues just asked "why?"
As to Swiss German, however, it is significantly different from high
German, both in pronunciation and vocabulary. For example, even in
German-speaking areas they say "merci" rather than "danke". And Zurich
airport at one time had screens saying Welcome, Willkommen, Bienvenue,
Gruezi (Gruezi is Swiss German; compare Gruess Gott in Bavaria).
they are speaking among themselves in their own language, and to
understand the written word.
On 01/12/2023 21:15, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message <MPG.3fd3ebc530a7d9a0989f95@text.usenet.plus.net>, Tim
Jackson <news@timjackson.invalid> writes
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 19:03:21 +0000, Les. Hayward wrote...One of the main advantages of learning the language of a country where
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my poor >>>> German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't you
speak English?"
A woman I knew got a job in the Netherlands and decided to learn Dutch.
Her Dutch colleagues just asked "why?"
As to Swiss German, however, it is significantly different from high
German, both in pronunciation and vocabulary. For example, even in
German-speaking areas they say "merci" rather than "danke". And Zurich >>> airport at one time had screens saying Welcome, Willkommen, Bienvenue,
Gruezi (Gruezi is Swiss German; compare Gruess Gott in Bavaria).
English is widely- and well-spoken is to be able to 'listen in' when
they are speaking among themselves in their own language, and to
understand the written word.
Such as the word bouchon on a French Autoroute matrix sign :-)
On 2023-12-01, Colin Bignell <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 01/12/2023 21:15, Ian Jackson wrote:
In message <MPG.3fd3ebc530a7d9a0989f95@text.usenet.plus.net>, Tim
Jackson <news@timjackson.invalid> writes
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 19:03:21 +0000, Les. Hayward wrote...One of the main advantages of learning the language of a country where
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my poor >>>>> German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't you
speak English?"
A woman I knew got a job in the Netherlands and decided to learn Dutch. >>>> Her Dutch colleagues just asked "why?"
As to Swiss German, however, it is significantly different from high
German, both in pronunciation and vocabulary. For example, even in
German-speaking areas they say "merci" rather than "danke". And Zurich >>>> airport at one time had screens saying Welcome, Willkommen, Bienvenue, >>>> Gruezi (Gruezi is Swiss German; compare Gruess Gott in Bavaria).
English is widely- and well-spoken is to be able to 'listen in' when
they are speaking among themselves in their own language, and to
understand the written word.
Such as the word bouchon on a French Autoroute matrix sign :-)
"You're going to be here a while. Open a bottle of wine now"?
In message <MPG.3fd3ebc530a7d9a0989f95@text.usenet.plus.net>, Tim
Jackson <news@timjackson.invalid> writes
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 19:03:21 +0000, Les. Hayward wrote...One of the main advantages of learning the language of a country where English is widely- and well-spoken is to be able to 'listen in' when
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my
poor German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't
you speak English?"
A woman I knew got a job in the Netherlands and decided to learn Dutch.
Her Dutch colleagues just asked "why?"
As to Swiss German, however, it is significantly different from high >>German, both in pronunciation and vocabulary. For example, even in >>German-speaking areas they say "merci" rather than "danke". And Zurich >>airport at one time had screens saying Welcome, Willkommen, Bienvenue, >>Gruezi (Gruezi is Swiss German; compare Gruess Gott in Bavaria).
they are speaking among themselves in their own language, and to
understand the written word.
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my poor >German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't you
speak English?"
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 19:03:21 +0000, "Les. Hayward" <les@nospam.invalid> wrote:
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my poor >German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't you
speak English?"
Back in the 90s when I worked for an ISP, our European Technical Center
(sic, our US parent company named it) was in the French-speaking part of Switzerland. Part of my job involved regular visits there. On one occasion,
I was accompanied by a colleague who, as it happened, spoke fluent German.
As was usual, we went for a few beers after work, and he attempted to communicate with the staff in German. But, even though they spoke it perfectly well (because most people in Switzerland are bilingual
irrespective of which language is their first language), they were very relucant to speak German to him, preferring instead to communicate in a mixture of their pidgeon English and my pidgeon French. We talked about that with our Swiss colleagues at work the next day, and they said that yes, French-Swiss really hate speaking German, even though they can, and will
only do so when absolutely necessary.
On Sat, 02 Dec 2023 11:57:30 +0000, Mark Goodge wrote...
On Thu, 30 Nov 2023 19:03:21 +0000, "Les. Hayward" <les@nospam.invalid>
wrote:
Reminds me of a trip to Switzerland when I was trying to improve my
poor German. The chap looked at me with sympathy and said "But can't
you speak English?"
Back in the 90s when I worked for an ISP, our European Technical Center
(sic, our US parent company named it) was in the French-speaking part
of Switzerland. Part of my job involved regular visits there. On one
occasion, I was accompanied by a colleague who, as it happened, spoke
fluent German. As was usual, we went for a few beers after work, and he
attempted to communicate with the staff in German. But, even though
they spoke it perfectly well (because most people in Switzerland are
bilingual irrespective of which language is their first language), they
were very relucant to speak German to him, preferring instead to
communicate in a mixture of their pidgeon English and my pidgeon
French. We talked about that with our Swiss colleagues at work the next
day, and they said that yes, French-Swiss really hate speaking German,
even though they can, and will only do so when absolutely necessary.
A different friend learned some basic Dutch because his wife has Dutch
family members.
On a visit to the Netherlands, he went into a bar with their son and
ordered drinks in Dutch. The barman was generally unfriendly, and
brought the drinks and slammed them down on the table grumpily. Later
he overheard them talking English to each other, and apologised
sheepishly. From my friend's accent, he had thought they were German.
Odd, because English is closer to Dutch than it is to German.
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