It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

--

Jeff

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On 07/11/2023 16:29, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

Was there a planning application notice posted on the site in question?
I believe they don't need to directly inform people.

'Beware of the Leopard' springs to mind.

--
Cheers
Clive

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On 07/11/2023 16:43, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 07/11/2023 16:29, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

Was there a planning application notice posted on the site in question?
I believe they don't need to directly inform people.

I haven't checked. The site has no pedestrian access and there is no
pavement outside it - only a grass verge.

'Beware of the Leopard' springs to mind.

Rather cryptic to a non-HGTTG person! But I did a search and can see why
you mentioned it. :-)

--

Jeff

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On 7 Nov 2023 at 16:43:26 GMT, "Clive Arthur" <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 07/11/2023 16:29, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

Was there a planning application notice posted on the site in question?
I believe they don't need to directly inform people.

'Beware of the Leopard' springs to mind.

It is some years since they did have to inform neighbours. Maybe the OP remembers when they did. It caught me out recently, though I wouldn't actually have commented had I known about our neighbour's application. Although his
land adjoins ours the notice was on a farm gate I rarely pass 200m away up a side road.

--
Roger Hayter

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On 07/11/2023 17:20, Roger Hayter wrote:

On 7 Nov 2023 at 16:43:26 GMT, "Clive Arthur" <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

On 07/11/2023 16:29, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

Was there a planning application notice posted on the site in question?
I believe they don't need to directly inform people.

'Beware of the Leopard' springs to mind.

It is some years since they did have to inform neighbours. Maybe the OP remembers when they did. It caught me out recently, though I wouldn't actually
have commented had I known about our neighbour's application. Although his land adjoins ours the notice was on a farm gate I rarely pass 200m away up a side road.

I have been sent consultation letters in the past - most certainly in
2012 - 2014. More recently much less so, but that was mainly because all
the land which could be developed seemed to have been taken up. The
current planning issue is for a small development of 6 houses next to a
pub car park. It's less than 50m away. I only found out because I am on
the council alert list for developments up to 250m away. Their email
referred to the planning application ref, and when I looked at it found
there were a large number of consultees but almost none in our road (Nos
1, 2, 3, and 4 received letters, but no others with the exception of
No.13 for some reason!). The properties in many side roads after No.30
were consulted. It really makes no sense.

I came across this: <https://www.landmarkchambers.co.uk/resources/bank/consultation-the-legal-requirements/>.
I'm not sure exactly when it was written, but the creation date says
April 2016. It refers to The Localism Act 2011, but also has references
to 2014. There seems to have been quite a bit of consultation carried
out by the Government since, but has any of it actually resulted in any
legal requirements?

--

Jeff

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On Tuesday, 7 November 2023 at 16:29:58 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

I think that's the normal approach where somebody complains during
the consultation period that compulsory notices haven't been made.
Though obviously if they know about the planning application anyway
they can still comment on it.

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On 07-Nov-23 16:43, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 07/11/2023 16:29, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed
for any comments?

Was there a planning application notice posted on the site in question?
I believe they don't need to directly inform people.

'Beware of the Leopard' springs to mind.

Do 'the rules' on that vary from place to place?

We received a notice via post when a neighbour across the road wanted to
dig out their front lawn to make a parking space. That was earlier this
year (and in Wales).

--
Sam Plusnet

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On 07/11/2023 20:01, Sam Plusnet wrote:

On 07-Nov-23 16:43, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 07/11/2023 16:29, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious
error. Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some
other piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed
for any comments?

Was there a planning application notice posted on the site in
question? I believe they don't need to directly inform people.

'Beware of the Leopard' springs to mind.

Do 'the rules' on that vary from place to place?

We've received letters in the past as have our neighbours, but not last
time, which was a couple of years ago. Almost caused us all to miss an application - we knew it was coming sometime, but assumed we'd get a letter.

The property in question runs behind us and our neighbours, and the
notice was at the front of the property, which we have no reason to pass
as it's around a corner on the way to nowhere much.

We received a notice via post when a neighbour across the road wanted to
dig out their front lawn to make a parking space.  That was earlier this year (and in Wales).

--
Cheers
Clive

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On 08/11/2023 10:03, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 07/11/2023 20:01, Sam Plusnet wrote:

On 07-Nov-23 16:43, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 07/11/2023 16:29, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious
error. Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or
some other piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to
reinvestigate the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the
time allowed for any comments?

Was there a planning application notice posted on the site in
question? I believe they don't need to directly inform people.

'Beware of the Leopard' springs to mind.

Do 'the rules' on that vary from place to place?

We've received letters in the past as have our neighbours, but not last
time, which was a couple of years ago.  Almost caused us all to miss an application - we knew it was coming sometime, but assumed we'd get a
letter.

Quite possibly are different in Wales and Scotland since planning is
quite a local function.

The property in question runs behind us and our neighbours, and the
notice was at the front of the property, which we have no reason to pass
as it's around a corner on the way to nowhere much.

My recollection is that these days they are only required to nail an A4
or possibly as small as A5 green notice to a lamp post somewhere in the vicinity and that is all the warning you get. Might even be smaller than
that - you have to keep an eye out for them if it bothers you.

ISTR Parish council do still get notified about anything on their patch.


--
Martin Brown

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On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 11:40:16 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

My recollection is that these days they are only required to nail an A4
or possibly as small as A5 green notice to a lamp post somewhere in the >vicinity and that is all the warning you get. Might even be smaller than
that - you have to keep an eye out for them if it bothers you.

When I took this up in Leicester a few years ago I was told that
notices on lamp posts were used when they didn't know the identity of
someone who might be affected by the development. So, in the case I
raised, there was nothing to give notice to those who didn't live
adjacent to the property, who might have an opinion, that the
application was to add another floor onto a two-storey house but there
was a notice posted on the gate of the country park at the rear of the property, even though the park's users couldn't see the house, or the
extension if it was built, because there was a wood in the way.
(The application was withdrawn, presumably because of objections by
the immediate neighbours, which I read on the planning portal. They
mostly weren't planning reasons. One of them was 'I spoke to Mrs X,
applicants wife, and she doesn't want it.')

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On Wednesday, 8 November 2023 at 11:40:30 UTC, Martin Brown wrote:

On 08/11/2023 10:03, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 07/11/2023 20:01, Sam Plusnet wrote:

On 07-Nov-23 16:43, Clive Arthur wrote:

On 07/11/2023 16:29, Jeff Layman wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst >>>> asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious
error. Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or
some other piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to
reinvestigate the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the >>>> time allowed for any comments?

Was there a planning application notice posted on the site in
question? I believe they don't need to directly inform people.

'Beware of the Leopard' springs to mind.

Do 'the rules' on that vary from place to place?

We've received letters in the past as have our neighbours, but not last time, which was a couple of years ago. Almost caused us all to miss an application - we knew it was coming sometime, but assumed we'd get a letter.

Quite possibly are different in Wales and Scotland since planning is
quite a local function.

The property in question runs behind us and our neighbours, and the
notice was at the front of the property, which we have no reason to pass
as it's around a corner on the way to nowhere much.

My recollection is that these days they are only required to nail an A4
or possibly as small as A5 green notice to a lamp post somewhere in the vicinity and that is all the warning you get. Might even be smaller than
that - you have to keep an eye out for them if it bothers you.

Probably more relevant these days is that the applications (including all the associated papers) will be online, and councils' websites generally allow
you to set up alerts if you want notified of new applications or updates to them.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 16:29:51 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

There's no requirement to proactively contact neighbours in order to allow
them to comment. provided the application was properly advertised in the
normal way, on the planning authority's website and, if applicable, by means
of a printed notice on or adjacent to the site, then no error has been made.

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

If it appears that a significant number of people were unaware of the application, then the consultation period can be extended. Also, although
the application will have a closing date for the consultation, all that
means is that it's the last date on which a comment is guaranteed to be
taken into consideration. In practice, given that the decision-making
process can be tardy anyway, later comments will usually still get there
before the final report is written. And if they are received before the
final report is written, they have to be taken into consideration. So the
fact that the published closing date has passed is not a reason not to
submit a comment.

Mark

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On 8 Nov 2023 at 20:38:37 GMT, "Mark Goodge"
<usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 16:29:51 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

There's no requirement to proactively contact neighbours in order to allow them to comment. provided the application was properly advertised in the normal way, on the planning authority's website and, if applicable, by means of a printed notice on or adjacent to the site, then no error has been made.

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

If it appears that a significant number of people were unaware of the application, then the consultation period can be extended. Also, although
the application will have a closing date for the consultation, all that
means is that it's the last date on which a comment is guaranteed to be
taken into consideration. In practice, given that the decision-making
process can be tardy anyway, later comments will usually still get there before the final report is written. And if they are received before the
final report is written, they have to be taken into consideration. So the fact that the published closing date has passed is not a reason not to
submit a comment.

Mark

Then how come Powys refused a comment by me one day after the deadline even though the decision was weeks later? You may say Powys are incompetent and don't know the law - I couldn't, as a loyal ratepayer, possibly comment.
Unless the rules are different in Wales?

--
Roger Hayter

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On 08/11/2023 20:38, Mark Goodge wrote:

On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 16:29:51 +0000, Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large
number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst
asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads
nowhere near the application site. This appears to be a serious error.
Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other
piece of legislation?

There's no requirement to proactively contact neighbours in order to allow them to comment. provided the application was properly advertised in the normal way, on the planning authority's website and, if applicable, by means of a printed notice on or adjacent to the site, then no error has been made.

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate
the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for
any comments?

If it appears that a significant number of people were unaware of the application, then the consultation period can be extended. Also, although
the application will have a closing date for the consultation, all that
means is that it's the last date on which a comment is guaranteed to be
taken into consideration. In practice, given that the decision-making
process can be tardy anyway, later comments will usually still get there before the final report is written. And if they are received before the
final report is written, they have to be taken into consideration. So the fact that the published closing date has passed is not a reason not to
submit a comment.

Just got a reply from the council:

"As a local authority, we are legally required to notify in writing the neighbours on land adjacent to a property where an application is made,
and within 20 metres of the property. Therefore, the council is
satisfied that we have done this.

However, as you have already taken steps to make yourself aware of local applications through your account, you have been notified of this
application. In addition, site notices are put up for the public who
might not be able to access this process.

Any resident can make an objection or comment about an application, so
if you would like to do so, please do on using the comment button on the website for this application."

I'm not sure where the 20 metres comes from. I found a consultation
letter (dated 7/11/23) stuck on a road sign just into our road (round
the corner on the other side of the road from the planned development).
Nobody who wants to stay dry will read it as there's a 2m-wide 5cm-deep
puddle there due to a blocked drain, and cars coming round the corner
don't see the water until it's too late to avoid it!

--

Jeff

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On 2023-11-09, Jeff Layman wrote:

I'm not sure where the 20 metres comes from. I found a consultation
letter (dated 7/11/23) stuck on a road sign just into our road (round
the corner on the other side of the road from the planned development). Nobody who wants to stay dry will read it as there's a 2m-wide 5cm-deep puddle there due to a blocked drain, and cars coming round the corner
don't see the water until it's too late to avoid it!

Not quite "beware of the leopard", but an interesting way of posting
the notice!

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Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> Wrote in message:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads nowhere near the application site. This appears

to be a serious error. Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for any comments?

I received a "Planning application - this may affect you" letter
last week.

The development comprises 301 residential, plus other things -
quite substantial. It is at a sharp diagonal across the road from
me.

The letter was dated 18 October 2023; it arrived on 11 November
2023, but ....
comments should be made by 09 November 2023 - two days after the
letter arrived!

That's Brent for you.

--
Iain


----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

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On 16/11/2023 00:24, Iain wrote:

Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> Wrote in message:

It looks like our local council have failed to consult a very large number of "neighbours" with regard to a planning application, whilst asking for comments from some many hundreds of metres away on roads nowhere near the application site. This

appears to be a serious error. Does this fall under The Housing and Planning Act 2016 or some other piece of legislation?

If an error has taken place, are the council obliged to reinvestigate the consultation process and, if necessary, extend the time allowed for any comments?

I received a "Planning application - this may affect you" letter
last week.

The development comprises 301 residential, plus other things -
quite substantial. It is at a sharp diagonal across the road from
me.

The letter was dated 18 October 2023; it arrived on 11 November
2023, but ....
comments should be made by 09 November 2023 - two days after the
letter arrived!

That's Brent for you.

I guess that if you complained, they'd just say they have no statutory obligation to let you know within any timescale. Do they not do an email service for any planning application within xxx metres of your property?
That's how I found out about my one.

--

Jeff

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On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 00:24:08 +0000 (GMT), Iain <spam@smaps.net> wrote:

I received a "Planning application - this may affect you" letter
last week.

The development comprises 301 residential, plus other things -
quite substantial. It is at a sharp diagonal across the road from
me.

The letter was dated 18 October 2023; it arrived on 11 November
2023, but ....
comments should be made by 09 November 2023 - two days after the
letter arrived!

That's Brent for you.

What was the postmark? It may not have been the sender's fault.

Mark

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Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk

Wrote in message:
On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 00:24:08 +0000 (GMT), Iain <spam@smaps.net> wrote:
I received a "Planning application - this may affect you" letter
last week. >>The development comprises 301 residential, plus other things - >> quite substantial. It is at a sharp diagonal across the road from> me.

The letter was dated 18 October 2023; it arrived on 11 November> 2023, but ....
comments should be made by 09 November 2023 - two days after the> letter arrived!

That's Brent for you.

What was the postmark? It may not have been the sender's fault.Mark

There is no discernable postmark on the envelope. It is one of
those printed licence (2nd class) official envelopes.


--
Iain


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On Thursday, 9 November 2023 at 09:05:26 UTC, Jeff Layman wrote:

Just got a reply from the council:
"As a local authority, we are legally required to notify in writing the neighbours on land adjacent to a property where an application is made,
and within 20 metres of the property. Therefore, the council is
satisfied that we have done this.

(Scotland) I think the distance is different here.

I've been told by the council that they do a postal notification to properties within 2x the statutory distance, on the grounds the mapping coordinates for each address don't cover the whole address, so an address mapping point could be outside the
statutory distance, but part of the address could be within the distance.

Signing up to the online alert from the local planning website is worthwhile. Also I will mention the Land Registry Property Alert as it informs you if a property registration changes, which can be advance warning of a possible change of use or
redevelopment of a site, as well as its intended use of helping prevent fraud

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/property-alert

Owain

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