• Cummings and the Covid Inquiry

    From The Todal@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 7 15:10:44 2023
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help
    draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf

    STATEMENT OF EVIDENCE TO COVID INQUIRY
    DOMINIC CUMMINGS 11 October 2023

    ‘Nothing was ready for the war which everybody expected.’ War and Peace

    ‘Definitely on digital, project management we’ve got nothing to learn
    from the private sector.’ Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary.

    ‘Fascinating that the same problems recur time after time, in almost
    every program, and that the management of the program, whether it
    happened to be government or industry, continues to avoid reality. So
    many programs fail because everybody doesn't know what it is they are
    supposed to do.’ George Mueller, leader of the Apollo program.

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  • From Pancho@21:1/5 to The Todal on Tue Nov 7 15:46:28 2023
    On 07/11/2023 15:10, The Todal wrote:
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf


    Brilliant! They have created a pdf without text search.

    ‘Definitely on digital, project management we’ve got nothing to learn from the private sector.’ Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary.


    You couldn't make it up!

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  • From Tony The Welsh Twat@21:1/5 to Pancho on Tue Nov 7 09:42:38 2023
    On Tuesday, 7 November 2023 at 15:46:44 UTC, Pancho wrote:
    On 07/11/2023 15:10, The Todal wrote:
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf

    Brilliant! They have created a pdf without text search.
    ‘Definitely on digital, project management we’ve got nothing to learn from the private sector.’ Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary.

    You couldn't make it up!

    Impartial view: (a) Cummins didn't like Carrie Johnson (b) he's embarrassed about his dismissal (c) he didn't want to be the fall guy.

    (a) is definitely true (Princess Nut Nuts), (b) is always true (no-one likes to be publically sacked), (c) is irrelevant given (a) and (b) are already proven.

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  • From Iain Archer@21:1/5 to Pancho on Tue Nov 7 21:34:10 2023
    On Tue, 07 Nov 2023 15:46:28 +0000, Pancho wrote:

    On 07/11/2023 15:10, The Todal wrote:
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic
    Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help
    draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and
    feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf


    Brilliant! They have created a pdf without text search.

    ‘Definitely on digital, project management we’ve got nothing to learn
    from the private sector.’ Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary.


    You couldn't make it up!

    There are 265 witness statements currently available at https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents (select the Evidence tab),
    210 from Module 1, and the rest from the current Module 2.

    I've sampled about one in ten of the PDF files in Module 1, and a larger proportion in Module 2. The absence of searchability seems confined to
    and pervasive in Module 2, for witnesses appearing from 10 October up
    to today. I'll send them an email reminder.

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  • From Iain Archer@21:1/5 to Iain Archer on Tue Nov 7 21:43:59 2023
    On Tue, 07 Nov 2023 21:34:10 +0000, Iain Archer wrote:

    I've sampled about one in ten of the PDF files in Module 1,

    Make that "about ten" . :)

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  • From Pancho@21:1/5 to Iain Archer on Wed Nov 8 09:03:44 2023
    On 07/11/2023 21:34, Iain Archer wrote:
    On Tue, 07 Nov 2023 15:46:28 +0000, Pancho wrote:

    On 07/11/2023 15:10, The Todal wrote:
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic
    Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help >>> draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and
    feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf


    Brilliant! They have created a pdf without text search.

    ‘Definitely on digital, project management we’ve got nothing to learn >>> from the private sector.’ Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary.


    You couldn't make it up!

    There are 265 witness statements currently available at https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents (select the Evidence tab),
    210 from Module 1, and the rest from the current Module 2.

    I've sampled about one in ten of the PDF files in Module 1, and a larger proportion in Module 2. The absence of searchability seems confined to
    and pervasive in Module 2, for witnesses appearing from 10 October up
    to today. I'll send them an email reminder.


    The question is why would they do that?

    It bloats the file size and is hard to navigate. With all the
    editor/creation tools that I know, it is not a natural thing to do.

    I suspect the civil service are so busy telling each other what a
    wonderful job they are doing that it forms an echo chamber. I have some sympathy for Cummings in that he noticed things are wrong, but little confidence he had the skills to improve the workings of a massive
    political bureaucracy.

    FWIW, I also have a lot of sympathy for Boris. The idea that you can
    make a decision, define a path to take, with little data, and stick to
    it when that data changes, is utterly alien to me. Recently I was
    listening to a recording of the physicist Richard Feynman state how
    impressed he was that a senior Army officer could make an important
    decision in minutes, and that it took him days to decide even small
    things. I can totally understand Boris being unsure. I'm still not sure
    if the second lockdown was a good idea, or even the first. I think civil servants, +Cummings etc, like strong decisions because it makes their
    life easier, not because it leads to better outcomes.

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  • From The Todal@21:1/5 to Pancho on Wed Nov 8 09:27:38 2023
    On 07/11/2023 15:46, Pancho wrote:
    On 07/11/2023 15:10, The Todal wrote:
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic
    Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or
    help draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the
    thoughts and feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness
    statement it begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in
    a published book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf


    Brilliant! They have created a pdf without text search.

    I downloaded it and ran it through an OCR converter, just for my own use.


    ‘Definitely on digital, project management we’ve got nothing to learn
    from the private sector.’ Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary.


    You couldn't make it up!



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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to Pancho on Wed Nov 8 11:40:56 2023
    Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

    I suspect the civil service are so busy telling each other what a
    wonderful job they are doing that it forms an echo chamber.

    Supposition isn’t a sound base on which to build a point of view.

    I have some
    sympathy for Cummings in that he noticed things are wrong, but little confidence he had the skills to improve the workings of a massive
    political bureaucracy.

    Recently I was
    listening to a recording of the physicist Richard Feynman state how
    impressed he was that a senior Army officer could make an important
    decision in minutes, and that it took him days to decide even small
    things.

    You might like to consider reading the book ’On the Psychology of Military Incompetence’, by Norman Dixon, available on Amazon (not Kindle) and doubtless other outlets. Generals don’t come out of it too well, due to having a very, very ‘thin skin’, a major (apologies for the pun) reason why people join the military officer corps.

    One story, concerning an Admiral, who was in charge of an exercise in the Mediterranean… He signalled another ship to turn to port, unaware that this would put it on a collision course with his own ship. The other officers on
    the bridge could see what was about to happen, but said nothing. Why?
    Because to do so would be a criticism of the Admiral’s decision, and junior officers don’t criticise seniors.

    The Navy lost a ship that day, and very many sailors.


    --
    Spike

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  • From The Todal@21:1/5 to Spike on Wed Nov 8 11:45:58 2023
    On 08/11/2023 11:40, Spike wrote:
    Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

    I suspect the civil service are so busy telling each other what a
    wonderful job they are doing that it forms an echo chamber.

    Supposition isn’t a sound base on which to build a point of view.

    I have some
    sympathy for Cummings in that he noticed things are wrong, but little
    confidence he had the skills to improve the workings of a massive
    political bureaucracy.

    Recently I was
    listening to a recording of the physicist Richard Feynman state how
    impressed he was that a senior Army officer could make an important
    decision in minutes, and that it took him days to decide even small
    things.

    You might like to consider reading the book ’On the Psychology of Military Incompetence’, by Norman Dixon, available on Amazon (not Kindle) and doubtless other outlets. Generals don’t come out of it too well, due to having a very, very ‘thin skin’, a major (apologies for the pun) reason why
    people join the military officer corps.

    One story, concerning an Admiral, who was in charge of an exercise in the Mediterranean… He signalled another ship to turn to port, unaware that this would put it on a collision course with his own ship. The other officers on the bridge could see what was about to happen, but said nothing. Why?
    Because to do so would be a criticism of the Admiral’s decision, and junior officers don’t criticise seniors.

    The Navy lost a ship that day, and very many sailors.



    And such things have happened all too often in the cockpits of
    commercial flights where the First Officer is too timid to argue with
    the Captain and the flight plunges helplessly to certain death.

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  • From The Todal@21:1/5 to Tony The Welsh Twat on Wed Nov 8 11:51:38 2023
    On 07/11/2023 17:42, Tony The Welsh Twat wrote:
    On Tuesday, 7 November 2023 at 15:46:44 UTC, Pancho wrote:
    On 07/11/2023 15:10, The Todal wrote:
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic
    Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help >>> draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and
    feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf

    Brilliant! They have created a pdf without text search.
    ‘Definitely on digital, project management we’ve got nothing to learn >>> from the private sector.’ Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary.

    You couldn't make it up!

    Impartial view: (a) Cummins didn't like Carrie Johnson (b) he's embarrassed about his dismissal (c) he didn't want to be the fall guy.

    (a) is definitely true (Princess Nut Nuts), (b) is always true (no-one likes to be publically sacked), (c) is irrelevant given (a) and (b) are already proven.


    Another link now, for your delectation.... https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31193431/2023-10-31-Module-2-Day-15-Transcript.pdf


    Dominic Cummings begins at page 88. The phrase "slow down please Mr
    Cummings" occurs rather a lot, through his evidence.

    By way of a taster...

    Q. Due in large part to your own WhatsApps, Mr Cummings,
    we're going to have to coarsen our language somewhat.

    A. I apologise.

    Q. You called ministers "useless fuck pigs", "morons",
    "cunts", in emails and WhatsApps to your professional
    colleagues. Do you think you contributed to a lack of
    effectiveness on the part of ministers and of
    the Cabinet?

    A. No, I think I was reflecting a widespread view amongst
    competent people at the centre of power at the time
    about the calibre of a lot of senior people who were
    dealing with this crisis extremely badly.

    Q. Slow down, please, Mr Cummings.
    Are you suggesting that your views, expressed in
    those revolting ways, were shared by others?

    A. Well, the -- my appalling language is obviously my own,
    but my judgement of a lot of senior people was
    widespread.

    Q. Do you feel that you expressed your views too
    trenchantly, that your opinion of ministers and of
    the Cabinet overstated the position?

    A. No, I would say, if anything, it understated
    the position, as events showed in 2020.

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  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to The Todal on Wed Nov 8 12:38:50 2023
    "The Todal" <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote in message news:kqv2bkF3pkiU1@mid.individual.net...
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic >Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.


    Now let's see.

    Before he was ever elected to anything, many seasoned observers were
    of the opinion, that Boris Johnson was little more than a clown.

    Which didn't nevertheless preclude him from being a successful journalist.

    The Conservative Party elected him leader because despite or maybe
    because he was a clown, along with being a well know TV personality,
    he could win them General Elections.

    Which he duly did.

    The Great British public voted for a clown as their Prime Minister.

    And being a clown, and being Prime Minister, as the most clever person
    ever duly noted in his evidence, he is able to promote other clowns
    into various posts, as they will pose no obvious threat.

    And then the most clever person ever, by the name of Dominic Cummings
    thought it would be good idea to get himself a job as advisor to the
    chief clown, and his cabinet of fellow clowns. And then is surprised
    when none of them take a blind bit of notice of him,

    Same with Simon Case, the second most clever person ever, who was also
    so surprised that the election winning chief clown wouldn't listen
    to his advice either !.

    If the UK objectively did very much worse than any other country.
    then maybe there would be some justification for spending further breast-beating billions on inquiries demonstrating how a bad an idea
    it is, to elect a clown as Prime Minister.

    As if that would make any difference anyway.

    Otherwise the whole exercise could simply be seen as a smokescreen;
    tabloid fodder to distract attention from the real villains of the
    piece. The Tory Spivs and their enablers, who were able to rake off
    billions of pounds of taxpayers money.

    As already detailed in "Private Eye"; as if most people took a blind
    bit of notice at the time. (Prolly still on their website )


    bb

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  • From Spike@21:1/5 to The Todal on Wed Nov 8 13:30:03 2023
    The Todal <the_todal@icloud.com> wrote:
    On 08/11/2023 11:40, Spike wrote:
    Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

    I suspect the civil service are so busy telling each other what a
    wonderful job they are doing that it forms an echo chamber.

    Supposition isn’t a sound base on which to build a point of view.

    I have some
    sympathy for Cummings in that he noticed things are wrong, but little
    confidence he had the skills to improve the workings of a massive
    political bureaucracy.

    Recently I was
    listening to a recording of the physicist Richard Feynman state how
    impressed he was that a senior Army officer could make an important
    decision in minutes, and that it took him days to decide even small
    things.

    You might like to consider reading the book ’On the Psychology of Military >> Incompetence’, by Norman Dixon, available on Amazon (not Kindle) and
    doubtless other outlets. Generals don’t come out of it too well, due to
    having a very, very ‘thin skin’, a major (apologies for the pun) reason why
    people join the military officer corps.

    One story, concerning an Admiral, who was in charge of an exercise in the
    Mediterranean… He signalled another ship to turn to port, unaware that this
    would put it on a collision course with his own ship. The other officers on >> the bridge could see what was about to happen, but said nothing. Why?
    Because to do so would be a criticism of the Admiral’s decision, and junior
    officers don’t criticise seniors.

    The Navy lost a ship that day, and very many sailors.

    And such things have happened all too often in the cockpits of
    commercial flights where the First Officer is too timid to argue with
    the Captain and the flight plunges helplessly to certain death.

    After reading of, and seeing in practice the outcomes of, the accounts in
    the book by Norman Dixon, my trust in the performance of members of
    uniformed, hierarchical organisations (including the medical) has been
    replaced by wary scepticism.

    --
    Spike

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  • From Vir Campestris@21:1/5 to Pancho on Wed Nov 8 16:00:18 2023
    On 08/11/2023 09:03, Pancho wrote:

    FWIW, I also have a lot of sympathy for Boris. The idea that you can
    make a decision, define a path to take, with little data, and stick to
    it when that data changes, is utterly alien to me. Recently I was
    listening to a recording of the physicist Richard Feynman state how
    impressed he was that a senior Army officer could make an important
    decision in minutes, and that it took him days to decide even small
    things. I can totally understand Boris being unsure. I'm still not sure
    if the second lockdown was a good idea, or even the first. I think civil servants, +Cummings etc, like strong decisions because it makes their
    life easier, not because it leads to better outcomes.

    <https://www.azquotes.com/quote/766102>

    "One mark of a good officer, he remembered, was the ability to make
    quick decisions. If they happen to be right, so much the better." (Larry
    Niven)

    We seem to have a bunch of people unable to make good decisions. Heck,
    my epidemiology is 40 years out of date, and I kept complaining. Often
    enough to annoy my wife!

    Andy

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  • From Mark Goodge@21:1/5 to Pancho on Wed Nov 8 20:12:17 2023
    On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 09:03:44 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

    On 07/11/2023 21:34, Iain Archer wrote:

    There are 265 witness statements currently available at
    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents (select the Evidence tab),
    210 from Module 1, and the rest from the current Module 2.

    I've sampled about one in ten of the PDF files in Module 1, and a larger
    proportion in Module 2. The absence of searchability seems confined to
    and pervasive in Module 2, for witnesses appearing from 10 October up
    to today. I'll send them an email reminder.


    The question is why would they do that?

    It bloats the file size and is hard to navigate. With all the
    editor/creation tools that I know, it is not a natural thing to do.

    It's almost certainly been converted from an original Word document by
    someone who doesn't know how to use Word properly. Or, more charitably,
    learned to use Word back in the days when PDF was still a closed format and Word didn't fully support it. It's a common error.

    FWIW, I also have a lot of sympathy for Boris. The idea that you can
    make a decision, define a path to take, with little data, and stick to
    it when that data changes, is utterly alien to me. Recently I was
    listening to a recording of the physicist Richard Feynman state how
    impressed he was that a senior Army officer could make an important
    decision in minutes, and that it took him days to decide even small
    things. I can totally understand Boris being unsure. I'm still not sure
    if the second lockdown was a good idea, or even the first. I think civil >servants, +Cummings etc, like strong decisions because it makes their
    life easier, not because it leads to better outcomes.

    Yes, I'm inclined to agree. Even at local government level, I'm well aware
    that "They can't make a timely decision!" often really means "They're making sure they've heard many different opinions, most of which I disagree with, before making a decision".

    Mark

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  • From Mark Goodge@21:1/5 to Pancho on Wed Nov 8 20:00:01 2023
    On Tue, 7 Nov 2023 15:46:28 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me> wrote:

    On 07/11/2023 15:10, The Todal wrote:

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf


    Brilliant! They have created a pdf without text search.

    Which also means it isn't accessible to screen readers. Thus breaking one of the requirements of The Public Sector Bodies (Websites and Mobile
    Applications) (No. 2) Accessibility Regulations 2018.

    Mark

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  • From Mark Goodge@21:1/5 to vir.campestris@invalid.invalid on Wed Nov 8 20:28:36 2023
    On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 16:00:18 +0000, Vir Campestris <vir.campestris@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 08/11/2023 09:03, Pancho wrote:

    FWIW, I also have a lot of sympathy for Boris. The idea that you can
    make a decision, define a path to take, with little data, and stick to
    it when that data changes, is utterly alien to me. Recently I was
    listening to a recording of the physicist Richard Feynman state how
    impressed he was that a senior Army officer could make an important
    decision in minutes, and that it took him days to decide even small
    things. I can totally understand Boris being unsure. I'm still not sure
    if the second lockdown was a good idea, or even the first. I think civil
    servants, +Cummings etc, like strong decisions because it makes their
    life easier, not because it leads to better outcomes.

    <https://www.azquotes.com/quote/766102>

    "One mark of a good officer, he remembered, was the ability to make
    quick decisions. If they happen to be right, so much the better." (Larry >Niven)

    That's one of the reasons why the military is a poor basis for comparison.
    In the heat of combat, you rarely have time to make a detailed assessment of the options before taking a decision. So the focus is on making rapid decisions, and accepting that this will inevitably entail making the wrong decision more often than you would if you had the time to properly consider
    it. It's a necessary trade-off, because failure to make a decision in time
    is just as bad as making the wrong decision.

    Mark

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  • From Pancho@21:1/5 to Spike on Thu Nov 9 07:50:19 2023
    On 08/11/2023 11:40, Spike wrote:

    You might like to consider reading the book ’On the Psychology of Military Incompetence’, by Norman Dixon, available on Amazon (not Kindle) and doubtless other outlets. Generals don’t come out of it too well, due to having a very, very ‘thin skin’, a major (apologies for the pun) reason why
    people join the military officer corps.


    Thanks for the recommendation, but deep down I'm just not interested in psychology. It is too complex for me to understand, or at least to get
    pleasure in understanding. I'm an advisor, a doer, not a commander.

    One story, concerning an Admiral, who was in charge of an exercise in the Mediterranean… He signalled another ship to turn to port, unaware that this would put it on a collision course with his own ship. The other officers on the bridge could see what was about to happen, but said nothing. Why?
    Because to do so would be a criticism of the Admiral’s decision, and junior officers don’t criticise seniors.


    In large corporations, I often noticed managers liked to have a member
    of staff who provided them with unquestioning, admiring, support. I used
    to contemptuously call this role “boy”, as a son looks up to a dad. It
    was only as I got older, I started to appreciate the mental strain of
    making decisions, decisions which would be challenged.

    I guess this responsibility and pressure is even more so in a military organisation like an army or navy.

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  • From RJH@21:1/5 to Pancho on Thu Nov 9 11:17:39 2023
    On 7 Nov 2023 at 15:46:28 GMT, Pancho wrote:

    On 07/11/2023 15:10, The Todal wrote:
    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic
    Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help
    draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and
    feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf


    Brilliant! They have created a pdf without text search.


    It works after a fashion (seems unusually slow) on a Mac using Preview.

    --
    Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

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  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Mark Goodge on Thu Nov 9 12:14:12 2023
    On 20:12 8 Nov 2023, Mark Goodge said:

    On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 09:03:44 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
    wrote:

    On 07/11/2023 21:34, Iain Archer wrote:

    There are 265 witness statements currently available at
    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents (select the Evidence
    tab), 210 from Module 1, and the rest from the current Module 2.

    I've sampled about one in ten of the PDF files in Module 1, and a
    larger proportion in Module 2. The absence of searchability seems
    confined to and pervasive in Module 2, for witnesses appearing from
    10 October up to today. I'll send them an email reminder.


    The question is why would they do that?

    It bloats the file size and is hard to navigate. With all the >>editor/creation tools that I know, it is not a natural thing to do.

    It's almost certainly been converted from an original Word document
    by someone who doesn't know how to use Word properly. Or, more
    charitably, learned to use Word back in the days when PDF was still a
    closed format and Word didn't fully support it. It's a common error.

    The PDF contains images of printed pages rather than the text of the
    pages. It is such a difference that this choice seems almost
    deliberate.

    A solution would be to do as Todal mentions and run the PDF through a
    OCR reader ... although not everyone, including myself, has such a
    program.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to The Todal on Fri Nov 10 00:08:54 2023
    On 07/11/2023 03:10 pm, The Todal wrote:

    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.

    I thought the whole point of a witness statement was that a witness can
    say anything they like?

    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/10/31180752/INQ000273872.pdf


    STATEMENT OF EVIDENCE TO COVID INQUIRY
    DOMINIC CUMMINGS 11 October 2023

    ‘Nothing was ready for the war which everybody expected.’ War and Peace

    ‘Definitely on digital, project management we’ve got nothing to learn from the private sector.’ Jeremy Heywood, Cabinet Secretary.

    ‘Fascinating that the same problems recur time after time, in almost
    every program, and that the management of the program, whether it
    happened to be government or industry, continues to avoid reality. So
    many programs fail because everybody doesn't know what it is they are supposed to do.’ George Mueller, leader of the Apollo program.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Pamela on Fri Nov 10 07:59:28 2023
    On 09/11/2023 12:14, Pamela wrote:
    On 20:12 8 Nov 2023, Mark Goodge said:

    On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 09:03:44 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
    wrote:

    On 07/11/2023 21:34, Iain Archer wrote:

    There are 265 witness statements currently available at
    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents (select the Evidence
    tab), 210 from Module 1, and the rest from the current Module 2.

    I've sampled about one in ten of the PDF files in Module 1, and a
    larger proportion in Module 2. The absence of searchability seems
    confined to and pervasive in Module 2, for witnesses appearing from
    10 October up to today. I'll send them an email reminder.


    The question is why would they do that?

    It bloats the file size and is hard to navigate. With all the
    editor/creation tools that I know, it is not a natural thing to do.

    It's almost certainly been converted from an original Word document
    by someone who doesn't know how to use Word properly. Or, more
    charitably, learned to use Word back in the days when PDF was still a
    closed format and Word didn't fully support it. It's a common error.

    The PDF contains images of printed pages rather than the text of the
    pages. It is such a difference that this choice seems almost
    deliberate.

    A solution would be to do as Todal mentions and run the PDF through a
    OCR reader ... although not everyone, including myself, has such a
    program.

    <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&kl=uk-en&kn=1&kz=-1&kaj=m&kak=-1&kaq=-1&kax=-1&q=pdf+scan+online+ocr&ia=web>


    --

    Jeff

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  • From Brian W@21:1/5 to JNugent on Fri Nov 10 03:47:28 2023
    On Friday, 10 November 2023 at 00:47:17 UTC, JNugent wrote:
    On 07/11/2023 03:10 pm, The Todal wrote:

    I recommend readers to have a look at the lengthy statement of Dominic Cummings, if they haven't already seen it.

    It barely resembles the sort of thing that a lawyer would draft (or help draft) for a witness. It is a creative work to express the thoughts and feelings of Mr Cummings. And unlike any other witness statement it
    begins with the sort of quotations that you might find in a published
    book, rather than a mere witness statement.
    I thought the whole point of a witness statement was that a witness can
    say anything they like?

    No. A witness statement is supposed to be in the witness's own words so far as practicable, but it isn't the case (at least in court proceedings) that a witness can say anything they like. I don't know the rules for inquiries, but in the courts a witness
    statement is supposed to be relevant to the issues in dispute, and there are strict rules as to what a factual witness can and can't address (e.g. generally no opinion evidence from a witness of fact). A witness statement that falls foul of those rules
    can be struck out in whole or in part. Furthermore, to the extent that lawyers are involved in the preparation of the statement, they have a professional obligation to the court to ensure irrelevant or inadmissible material isn't included.

    As I say, I don't know the rules for inquiries, but I'd be very surprised if there isn't a rule stating that, at the very least, witness evidence is confined to relevant issues.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pancho@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Fri Nov 10 14:13:01 2023
    On 10/11/2023 07:59, Jeff Layman wrote:

    The PDF contains images of printed pages rather than the text of the
    pages. It is such a difference that this choice seems almost
    deliberate.

    A solution would be to do as Todal mentions and run the PDF through a
    OCR reader ... although not everyone, including myself, has such a
    program.

    <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&kl=uk-en&kn=1&kz=-1&kaj=m&kak=-1&kaq=-1&kax=-1&q=pdf+scan+online+ocr&ia=web>


    There is also freeware that you can run locally on your PC. I
    successfully use a Docker version of OCRmyPDF. I run this on a
    Raspberry Pi type device, it runs continuously, waiting, and
    automatically converts any file dropped into a specific folder.

    I have set up my document scanner to save files to this folder, and thus automatically OCR any documents I scan.

    FWIW, I tried a couple of online conversions services from the URL
    above, they both failed.

    The document took 9 minutes to add OCR using my Orange Pi 5.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Pancho on Tue Nov 14 10:02:57 2023
    On 14:13 10 Nov 2023, Pancho said:
    On 10/11/2023 07:59, Jeff Layman wrote:

    The PDF contains images of printed pages rather than the text of
    the pages. It is such a difference that this choice seems almost
    deliberate.

    A solution would be to do as Todal mentions and run the PDF through
    a OCR reader ... although not everyone, including myself, has such
    a program.

    <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&kl=uk-en&kn=1&kz=-1&kaj=m&
    kak=-1&kaq=-1&kax=-1&q=pdf+scan+online+ocr&ia=web>


    There is also freeware that you can run locally on your PC. I
    successfully use a Docker version of OCRmyPDF. I run this on a
    Raspberry Pi type device, it runs continuously, waiting, and
    automatically converts any file dropped into a specific folder.

    I have set up my document scanner to save files to this folder, and
    thus automatically OCR any documents I scan.

    FWIW, I tried a couple of online conversions services from the URL
    above, they both failed.

    The document took 9 minutes to add OCR using my Orange Pi 5.

    As an aside, how can I easily create a short PDF document which
    contains an IMAGE of the original text, like the Dominic Cummings
    document mentioned here.

    At present this takes two steps on my PC but I would like to do it in
    only one.

    (1) "Print" the email using utility software (a print driver called
    PDFill) which. This creates an image file in jpeg format of the text.

    (2) Create a PDF containing the image file.

    The purpose is to send a non-revisable document, reminding the
    recipient of an earlier email.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Gaines@21:1/5 to All on Tue Nov 14 11:32:52 2023
    On 14/11/2023 in message <XnsB0BC663A64C191F3A2@135.181.20.170> Pamela
    wrote:

    At present this takes two steps on my PC but I would like to do it in
    only one.

    (1) "Print" the email using utility software (a print driver called
    PDFill) which. This creates an image file in jpeg format of the text.

    (2) Create a PDF containing the image file.

    The purpose is to send a non-revisable document, reminding the
    recipient of an earlier email.

    Foxit pdf has a pdf printer and it is free. They did remove the printer
    driver at one time but it is included in versions up to 9.7.2.

    There is no such thing any more as a non-revisable document. I have Nuance Power PDF and it turns any pdf into an editable document, using built in
    OCR if necessary. For something like a jpeg it can turn it into a pdf then
    an editable file.

    --
    Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
    If you ever find something you like buy a lifetime supply because they
    will stop making it

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Pancho@21:1/5 to Pamela on Fri Nov 17 18:35:14 2023
    On 14/11/2023 10:02, Pamela wrote:
    On 14:13 10 Nov 2023, Pancho said:
    On 10/11/2023 07:59, Jeff Layman wrote:

    The PDF contains images of printed pages rather than the text of
    the pages. It is such a difference that this choice seems almost
    deliberate.

    A solution would be to do as Todal mentions and run the PDF through
    a OCR reader ... although not everyone, including myself, has such
    a program.

    <https://duckduckgo.com/?t=h_&kl=uk-en&kn=1&kz=-1&kaj=m&
    kak=-1&kaq=-1&kax=-1&q=pdf+scan+online+ocr&ia=web>


    There is also freeware that you can run locally on your PC. I
    successfully use a Docker version of OCRmyPDF. I run this on a
    Raspberry Pi type device, it runs continuously, waiting, and
    automatically converts any file dropped into a specific folder.

    I have set up my document scanner to save files to this folder, and
    thus automatically OCR any documents I scan.

    FWIW, I tried a couple of online conversions services from the URL
    above, they both failed.

    The document took 9 minutes to add OCR using my Orange Pi 5.

    As an aside, how can I easily create a short PDF document which
    contains an IMAGE of the original text, like the Dominic Cummings
    document mentioned here.

    At present this takes two steps on my PC but I would like to do it in
    only one.

    (1) "Print" the email using utility software (a print driver called
    PDFill) which. This creates an image file in jpeg format of the text.

    (2) Create a PDF containing the image file.

    The purpose is to send a non-revisable document, reminding the
    recipient of an earlier email.

    On MS Windows you can print to PDF. This can produce a searchable PDF.
    Or you can use LibreOffice Writer "Export as functionality" (10% the
    size of the print to PDF). Loading a file into Writer and then saving it
    is time-consuming.

    Whether you consider either of the files produced an IMAGE. I don't
    know. To a certain extent, a Text file is an image, in that it is a
    format used to create an image to display. I think PDF files vary, from
    almost text to almost jpeg style pictures.

    I suspect it may be possible to edit all these PDF file type, but it is
    also possible to edit a real scanned image, using some kind of paint tool.

    When I did invoices, I considered the LibreOffice Writer PDF to be
    immutable. It was good enough. It wasn't like MS Word, where files could
    be edited by mistake when reading them.

    However, if you want to be really sure, you need to use a digital
    signature on the PDF, which LibreOffice Writer can do, but it isn't
    something I know much about.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From JNugent@21:1/5 to Pamela on Fri Dec 8 17:43:54 2023
    On 09/11/2023 12:14 pm, Pamela wrote:
    On 20:12 8 Nov 2023, Mark Goodge said:

    On Wed, 8 Nov 2023 09:03:44 +0000, Pancho <Pancho.Jones@proton.me>
    wrote:

    On 07/11/2023 21:34, Iain Archer wrote:

    There are 265 witness statements currently available at
    https://covid19.public-inquiry.uk/documents (select the Evidence
    tab), 210 from Module 1, and the rest from the current Module 2.

    I've sampled about one in ten of the PDF files in Module 1, and a
    larger proportion in Module 2. The absence of searchability seems
    confined to and pervasive in Module 2, for witnesses appearing from
    10 October up to today. I'll send them an email reminder.


    The question is why would they do that?

    It bloats the file size and is hard to navigate. With all the
    editor/creation tools that I know, it is not a natural thing to do.

    It's almost certainly been converted from an original Word document
    by someone who doesn't know how to use Word properly. Or, more
    charitably, learned to use Word back in the days when PDF was still a
    closed format and Word didn't fully support it. It's a common error.

    The PDF contains images of printed pages rather than the text of the
    pages. It is such a difference that this choice seems almost
    deliberate.

    A solution would be to do as Todal mentions and run the PDF through a
    OCR reader ... although not everyone, including myself, has such a
    program.

    Use FOC:

    <www.onlineocr.net>

    It works as well as any you have to pay for.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)