• "Order Complete"

    From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 2 18:11:55 2023
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps
    have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian Jackson@21:1/5 to not@home.com on Thu Nov 2 20:45:43 2023
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me
    that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps
    have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.
    --
    Ian
    Aims and ambitions are neither attainments nor achievements

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to Ian Jackson on Fri Nov 3 02:12:23 2023
    On 02-Nov-23 20:45, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store.  A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me
    that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or
    perhaps have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's
    point of view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might
    arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information
    which is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.

    It hadn't occurred to me that "We have received your order" was
    ambiguous, but then I don't generally 'do' click and collect.

    But claiming "Your order is now complete." - when it self-evidently is
    not complete isn't ambiguous, it's just wrong.

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Fri Nov 3 09:36:53 2023
    "Sam Plusnet" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:cGY0N.27825$pZKa.21240@fx04.ams1...
    On 02-Nov-23 20:45, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days after >>> the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps
    have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might
    arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it is
    simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods has
    been received.

    It hadn't occurred to me that "We have received your order" was ambiguous, but then I don't generally 'do' click and collect.

    But claiming "Your order is now complete." - when it self-evidently is not complete isn't ambiguous, it's just wrong.

    Tesco like most supermarkets now deliver.

    Going around a big Tesco during the day, you often see assistants
    wheeling trolleys around the aisles consulting their screens,
    taking items off of shelves and putting them in the various bins
    on their trolley. These are the "orders" they are picking. And when
    those orders are completed they wheel their trolleys to the back of
    the shop or wherever, and take off the bins containing the orders,
    which are now ready to go on the van.

    And then each of those orders is delivered to the customer's house
    and the "transaction" is completed; assuming the customer has
    already paid


    bb

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Peter Johnson@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 3 14:48:18 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 09:36:53 -0000, "billy bookcase" <billy@anon.com>
    wrote:



    Going around a big Tesco during the day, you often see assistants
    wheeling trolleys around the aisles consulting their screens,
    taking items off of shelves and putting them in the various bins
    on their trolley. These are the "orders" they are picking. And when
    those orders are completed they wheel their trolleys to the back of
    the shop or wherever, and take off the bins containing the orders,
    which are now ready to go on the van.

    One of my brothers, who lives in Germany, was visiting a few years ago
    and saw this going on when he went to get some rations for his journey
    home. He thought they were training.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dr Dave@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Fri Nov 3 06:31:33 2023
    On Thursday, 2 November 2023 at 19:37:44 UTC, Sam Plusnet wrote:
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps
    have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    It depends what your definition of ‘order’ is. I can think of several. If you had received the goods, would you consider it complete? It could be argued that it isn’t because the supplier still has obligations until to you for some time lest it
    should develop a fault.

    Yes, it would be better if the supplier gave useful updates. When I was foolish enough to use branded garages, they boasted a system which kept you updated you of your car’s progress through the workshop. It turned out that they managed to change the
    tyres, replace the timing belt, renew the filters, put fresh oil in and top up the fluids all in the space of two minutes.

    And we’ve all had those Amazon texts saying that your order has been delivered before it actually has.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Holland@21:1/5 to ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk on Fri Nov 3 12:29:05 2023
    In article <1uH3WWO3pARlFwCH@brattleho.plus.com>,
    Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    "Your order is now complete."
    A variant is "We have received your order"

    See also "Your order has been dispatched" when actually they mean
    "We've got a tracking number allocated from the courier, but haven't
    even thought about packing or shipping your order yet". :(

    Dave

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk on Fri Nov 3 12:36:06 2023
    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 20:45:43 +0000, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me >>that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps >>have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might arrive. >>
    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.


    and having placed an order, for collection in the next couple of days,
    I immediately get an email (from Trustpilot of course):

    <quote>How many stars would you give xxx

    Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase from xxx

    How did we do? </quote>

    How the f** do I know? Even when I collect it several weeks might
    pass by before I use it. Am I supposed to give them 5* just for
    having the ability to either receive an order or even merely supply an
    order?

    Anyway, I don't Trust the Pilot.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Fri Nov 3 13:11:44 2023
    On 02:12 3 Nov 2023, Sam Plusnet said:
    On 02-Nov-23 20:45, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store.  A couple of
    days after the order was placed, I received an email from them
    informing me that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or
    perhaps have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's
    point of view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it
    might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information
    which is useful to the customer, and use language which makes
    sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual
    obligations at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something
    for click and collect. At first sight you might think that your
    order has arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be
    collected - but it is simply an acknowledgement that your request
    for the required goods has been received.

    It hadn't occurred to me that "We have received your order" was
    ambiguous, but then I don't generally 'do' click and collect.

    But claiming "Your order is now complete." - when it self-evidently
    is not complete isn't ambiguous, it's just wrong.

    When ordering supermarket groceries via Amazon the customer is
    permitted to add items but only until the assistant has completed the
    picking. In such circumstances the message (sent by SMS or in real time
    via the app) has a purpose.

    For non-supermarket items bought online, it can be useful to know a
    store has been able to fulfil the order without encountering stock
    shortages or delays and that it has been despatched.

    Maybe it's the use of "complete" you don't like but it could be taken
    to mean the store's involvement with the order has been completed and
    only remaining activity is delivery by another party.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dr Dave@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Fri Nov 3 12:10:24 2023
    On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 18:26:57 UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 20:45:43 +0000, Ian Jackson
    <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7....@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <n...@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me >>that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps >>have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which >>is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for >click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has >arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.
    and having placed an order, for collection in the next couple of days,
    I immediately get an email (from Trustpilot of course):

    <quote>How many stars would you give xxx

    Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase from xxx

    How did we do? </quote>

    How the f** do I know? Even when I collect it several weeks might
    pass by before I use it. Am I supposed to give them 5* just for
    having the ability to either receive an order or even merely supply an
    order?

    Anyway, I don't Trust the Pilot.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    A bit like those people i restaurants who wonder around asking if everything is alright before the food has even arrived.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roger Hayter@21:1/5 to All on Fri Nov 3 19:31:33 2023
    On 3 Nov 2023 at 12:36:06 GMT, "AnthonyL" <AnthonyL> wrote:

    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 20:45:43 +0000, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me
    that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps
    have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.


    and having placed an order, for collection in the next couple of days,
    I immediately get an email (from Trustpilot of course):

    <quote>How many stars would you give xxx

    Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase from xxx

    How did we do? </quote>

    How the f** do I know? Even when I collect it several weeks might
    pass by before I use it. Am I supposed to give them 5* just for
    having the ability to either receive an order or even merely supply an
    order?

    Anyway, I don't Trust the Pilot.

    Worse, if you do deign to give them a star rating then Trustpilot refuse to accept it unless you right a short primary school essay about it. I must say there is so little I could say about a box of cheap woodscrews that I wouldn't even try.

    Even more worser are some of the more americanised shops that demand to know what I "loved" about the product. I can't decide whether I object more to the presumptuousness or to the idea that anyone could "love" household shopping.


    --
    Roger Hayter

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Fri Nov 3 20:09:51 2023
    "AnthonyL" <nospam@please.invalid> wrote in message news:6544e7f9.2007346765@news.eternal-september.org...

    and having placed an order, for collection in the next couple of days,
    I immediately get an email (from Trustpilot of course):

    <quote>How many stars would you give xxx

    Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase from xxx

    How did we do? </quote>

    How the f** do I know? Even when I collect it several weeks might
    pass by before I use it. Am I supposed to give them 5* just for
    having the ability to either receive an order or even merely supply an
    order?

    Anyway, I don't Trust the Pilot.

    Fortunately, for present purposes at least there have been at least
    two cremation services regularly advertising on Freeview. Let's call
    them Caring Cremations and Sympathy Cremations

    On one of their ads, Caring Cremations boasted a Trustpilot rating of
    something around 4.9 out of five.

    Now this immediately got me thinking, as to how all those satisfied
    customers would have been in any fit state to log on.

    However my curiosity was soon satisfied by checking Trustpilot

    ***** The assistant was so helpful, Made signing up so simple.

    ***** Such sympathetic treatment we're both signed up for
    the lifetime plan.

    Page after page of five star ratings based solely on the ease
    with which people could sign up.

    Then filtering the one and two star ratings.

    * Our relative was left in the mortuary for six weeks, as
    Caring Cremations said there was a problem with the paperwork

    * The cremation was delayed etc etc

    When a bit of in depth Google Research (1.2 seconds )
    revealed that Caring Cremations used a central Crematorium,
    ISTR in the Midlands somewhere(well it would be, wouldn't it)
    possibly based on an Industrial Estate. Maybe between Kwik Fix
    and Screwfix. Grieving loved ones aren't allowed to attend
    cremations in person but can request a video of the coffin
    of choice going through the doors. They're then sent the
    ashes in their urn of choice presumably by a courier.

    Whether all this is explained when people sign up, I'm
    not sure.

    The same applied to an outfit that started up a couple of years
    ago, offering a comprehensive house repairs and maintenance service,
    covering gas, electric plumbing etc; all covered for a single
    monthly fee.

    That got a very high Trustpilot Rating as well; except as before
    all the Five Star ratings were similar...

    ****** It was so easy to sign up and the assistant was so helpful
    in explaining all the options

    While the one star ratings....

    * Why do I have to leave one star ? These cowboys should be
    minus five !


    bb

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Fri Nov 3 20:51:41 2023
    On 03-Nov-23 12:36, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 20:45:43 +0000, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me
    that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps
    have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.


    and having placed an order, for collection in the next couple of days,
    I immediately get an email (from Trustpilot of course):

    <quote>How many stars would you give xxx

    Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase from xxx

    How did we do? </quote>

    How the f** do I know? Even when I collect it several weeks might
    pass by before I use it. Am I supposed to give them 5* just for
    having the ability to either receive an order or even merely supply an
    order?

    It helps when there is a clear distinction between asking for comments
    about the vendor - and a review of the goods.

    I do like the 'Reviews' on Amazon which simply say
    "I bought it as a present."

    Anyway, I don't Trust the Pilot.

    Pontius didn't turn out too well.

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Fri Nov 3 23:01:33 2023
    "Roger Hayter" <roger@hayter.org> wrote in message news:kql04lF7dcjU1@mid.individual.net...

    Even more worser are some of the more americanised shops
    that demand to know what I "loved" about the product. I can't
    decide whether I object more to the presumptuousness or to
    the idea that anyone could "love" household shopping.

    It's the same now on the eBay feedback page which is now headed

    "Tell Us How You Loved Your Experience"

    Also "beloved" is now a new buzz word - this "beloved actor" or
    that "beloved singer"

    Just as most people don't seem to realise that "loved ones" started
    out as "The Loved One" a satirical novel by Evelyn Waugh about the US
    funeral business and the way they referred to their stock-in-trade.
    At least to those paying the bill.

    Or maybe it really is the case that people simply don't hate, dislike
    or envy one other, as much as they did in the old days,


    bb

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Sat Nov 4 09:15:07 2023
    On Fri, 03 Nov 2023 20:51:41 +0000, Sam Plusnet wrote:

    On 03-Nov-23 12:36, AnthonyL wrote:
    [quoted text muted]

    It helps when there is a clear distinction between asking for comments
    about the vendor - and a review of the goods.

    I do like the 'Reviews' on Amazon which simply say "I bought it as a present."

    You used to get reviews saying "I haven't bought this so can't help".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Sat Nov 4 09:13:57 2023
    On Fri, 03 Nov 2023 19:31:33 +0000, Roger Hayter wrote:

    On 3 Nov 2023 at 12:36:06 GMT, "AnthonyL" <AnthonyL> wrote:

    [quoted text muted]

    Worse, if you do deign to give them a star rating then Trustpilot refuse
    to accept it unless you right a short primary school essay about it.

    ChatGPT can write 10 50 word reviews in a moment.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Goodge@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Sat Nov 4 11:17:20 2023
    On 3 Nov 2023 19:31:33 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:


    Even more worser are some of the more americanised shops that demand to know >what I "loved" about the product. I can't decide whether I object more to the >presumptuousness or to the idea that anyone could "love" household shopping.

    The one that really gets my goat is the phrase "pre-loved" to mean
    second-hand. I really don't care about the emotional state of the item's previous owner. In fact, it's probably better if they hated it, because that way it's more likely to have been relatively lightly used, if at all. The reason why unwanted Christmas presents are a good source of new year eBay bargains is precisely because they haven't been, in any meaningful sense of
    the word, loved.

    Mark

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to Mark Goodge on Sat Nov 4 12:29:54 2023
    "Mark Goodge" <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in message news:ft9cki5pif9h6f9cbnt5c9b3tau2uish1n@4ax.com...

    The reason why unwanted Christmas presents are a good source
    of new year eBay bargains is precisely because they haven't
    been, in any meaningful sense of the word, loved.


    While the reason why Folio Society offerings, and expensive
    art books, can be a good source of bargains* in Charity shops
    is because FS members are obliged to select a certain number
    of books each year. While a surprising number of visitors to
    Art Galleries and Museums will buy an expensive art book
    as a memento. At least, so it's assumed. To then sit on their
    shelf, pristine and unread (along with a lot of others) for
    maybe the next 5 or 10 years.


    bb

    *Purely to feed an insatiable sickness; rather than with
    any view to possible re-sale. Sell them ? Never! ! Years ago,
    this would have involved frequent trips to Charing Cross Rd
    and the like scouring through basements. Now there are "dealers"
    on almost every High St, peddling their wares. Often complete
    with assistants quite similar to those portrayed in "The League of
    Gentlemen".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to Mark Goodge on Sat Nov 4 13:54:53 2023
    On Sat, 04 Nov 2023 11:17:20 +0000, Mark Goodge wrote:

    On 3 Nov 2023 19:31:33 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:


    [quoted text muted]

    The one that really gets my goat is the phrase "pre-loved" to mean second-hand.

    How about "pre-order" to mean "reserve" ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Andy Burns@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 4 14:04:25 2023
    Jethro_uk wrote:

    Mark Goodge wrote:

    Roger Hayter wrote:

    The one that really gets my goat is the phrase "pre-loved" to mean
    second-hand.

    How about "pre-order" to mean "reserve" ?

    "pre-drill" to mean "drill".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mark Goodge@21:1/5 to jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com on Sat Nov 4 14:29:32 2023
    On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 13:54:53 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
    <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 04 Nov 2023 11:17:20 +0000, Mark Goodge wrote:

    On 3 Nov 2023 19:31:33 GMT, Roger Hayter <roger@hayter.org> wrote:


    [quoted text muted]

    The one that really gets my goat is the phrase "pre-loved" to mean
    second-hand.

    How about "pre-order" to mean "reserve" ?

    I'm a bit more ambivalent about that. I think there is a valuable
    distinction between placing an order for immediate fulfilment from stock and placing an advance order for a product not yet available. You can argue that "pre-order" is an unnecessary synonym for "advance order", but it's not the tautology that some people accuse it of being.

    Also, "reserve" doesn't quite carry the same meaning as an advance order.
    Back in the days of JR Hartley et al, it was not uncommon to telephone a
    shop to ascertain whether they had a certain item in stock, and, if so, ask them to reserve one for you that you would then arrive in person to purchase shortly afterwards. That's not a pre-order, because it's still being
    fulfulled from stock, it's just putting one aside for you to purchase later. These days, the term that's replaced "reserve" is "click and collect".

    Mark

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tony The Welsh Twat@21:1/5 to billy bookcase on Sat Nov 4 07:48:13 2023
    On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 21:16:03 UTC, billy bookcase wrote:

    Fortunately, for present purposes at least there have been at least
    two cremation services regularly advertising on Freeview. Let's call
    them Caring Cremations and Sympathy Cremations

    On one of their ads, Caring Cremations boasted a Trustpilot rating of something around 4.9 out of five.

    When a bit of in depth Google Research (1.2 seconds )
    revealed that Caring Cremations used a central Crematorium,
    ISTR in the Midlands somewhere(well it would be, wouldn't it)
    possibly based on an Industrial Estate. Maybe between Kwik Fix
    and Screwfix. Grieving loved ones aren't allowed to attend
    cremations in person but can request a video of the coffin
    of choice going through the doors. They're then sent the
    ashes in their urn of choice presumably by a courier.


    bb

    Your points are noted but I remember reading recently that these "no frills budget" cremations are one of the fastest growing industries.

    As you point out, once your bereaved member of family is collected by them, that's the last you see of them.

    No paying your last respects or any guff like that. They even use "wood effect" coffins (which I guess means a cardboard box).

    If you only want to spend £1500 on a funeral instead of closer to £5000 then I can see the attraction.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From billy bookcase@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 4 18:05:45 2023
    "Tony The Welsh Twat" <tonythewelshtwat@gmail.com> wrote in message news:72dc941e-98a1-4f06-869f-c34f37bd6097n@googlegroups.com...

    Your points are noted but I remember reading recently that these
    "no frills budget" cremations are one of the fastest growing industries.

    If you only want to spend £1500 on a funeral instead of closer to
    £5000 then I can see the attraction.


    Maybe it's just different values. But to me, it could also be an
    indication of the actual state of poverty in this country.

    I thought it was only in the "bad old days" that people seriously
    worried about not having enough money to pay for their funeral.

    But all these rip-off Life and Funeral Insurance Plans* would seem
    to suggest otherwise; despite all the statistics showing people
    are supposedly better off.


    bb

    * Where to qualify to get your guaranteed fixed sum, you have to keep
    up the payments until your very last breath, no matter how long you
    live. Or lose the lot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Chare@21:1/5 to billy bookcase on Sat Nov 4 22:52:09 2023
    On 03/11/2023 09:36, billy bookcase wrote:
    "Sam Plusnet" <not@home.com> wrote in message news:cGY0N.27825$pZKa.21240@fx04.ams1...
    On 02-Nov-23 20:45, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days after >>>> the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me that: >>>>
    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps >>>> have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might
    arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which >>>> is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations >>>> at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it is >>> simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods has
    been received.

    It hadn't occurred to me that "We have received your order" was ambiguous, >> but then I don't generally 'do' click and collect.

    But claiming "Your order is now complete." - when it self-evidently is not >> complete isn't ambiguous, it's just wrong.

    Tesco like most supermarkets now deliver.

    Going around a big Tesco during the day, you often see assistants
    wheeling trolleys around the aisles consulting their screens,
    taking items off of shelves and putting them in the various bins
    on their trolley. These are the "orders" they are picking. And when
    those orders are completed they wheel their trolleys to the back of
    the shop or wherever, and take off the bins containing the orders,
    which are now ready to go on the van.

    And then each of those orders is delivered to the customer's house
    and the "transaction" is completed; assuming the customer has
    already paid

    These days I have to sign the delivery drivers device. I think that is
    when I actually get charged, Tesco probably having taken out a
    reservation against my card a/c when I place the order.

    --
    Michael Chare

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to Tony The Welsh Twat on Sat Nov 4 18:24:58 2023
    On 04-Nov-23 14:48, Tony The Welsh Twat wrote:
    On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 21:16:03 UTC, billy bookcase wrote:

    Fortunately, for present purposes at least there have been at least
    two cremation services regularly advertising on Freeview. Let's call
    them Caring Cremations and Sympathy Cremations

    On one of their ads, Caring Cremations boasted a Trustpilot rating of
    something around 4.9 out of five.

    When a bit of in depth Google Research (1.2 seconds )
    revealed that Caring Cremations used a central Crematorium,
    ISTR in the Midlands somewhere(well it would be, wouldn't it)
    possibly based on an Industrial Estate. Maybe between Kwik Fix
    and Screwfix. Grieving loved ones aren't allowed to attend
    cremations in person but can request a video of the coffin
    of choice going through the doors. They're then sent the
    ashes in their urn of choice presumably by a courier.


    bb

    Your points are noted but I remember reading recently that these "no frills budget" cremations are one of the fastest growing industries.

    As you point out, once your bereaved member of family is collected by them, that's the last you see of them.

    No paying your last respects or any guff like that. They even use "wood effect" coffins (which I guess means a cardboard box).

    If you only want to spend £1500 on a funeral instead of closer to £5000 then I can see the attraction.

    It might be £1500 for the funeral, but there's an extra £1000 on the
    bill - to cover all the marketing and advertising.
    (No, I'm not joking.)

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 5 13:58:37 2023
    On 09:15 4 Nov 2023, Jethro_uk said:
    On Fri, 03 Nov 2023 20:51:41 +0000, Sam Plusnet wrote:
    On 03-Nov-23 12:36, AnthonyL wrote:

    [quoted text muted]

    It helps when there is a clear distinction between asking for
    comments about the vendor - and a review of the goods.

    I do like the 'Reviews' on Amazon which simply say "I bought it as a
    present."

    You used to get reviews saying "I haven't bought this so can't help".

    One review said he downvoted the product because the five inch plate he
    ordered was too small even though it measured five inches. What a plonker
    but par for the course.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pamela@21:1/5 to Roger Hayter on Sun Nov 5 13:54:12 2023
    On 19:31 3 Nov 2023, Roger Hayter said:

    On 3 Nov 2023 at 12:36:06 GMT, "AnthonyL" <AnthonyL> wrote:

    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 20:45:43 +0000, Ian Jackson
    <ianREMOVETHISjackson@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of
    days after the order was placed, I received an email from them
    informing me that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or
    perhaps have the order ready for dispatch - but from the
    customer's point of view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it
    might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information
    which is useful to the customer, and use language which makes
    sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual
    obligations at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something
    for click and collect. At first sight you might think that your
    order has arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be
    collected - but it is simply an acknowledgement that your request
    for the required goods has been received.


    and having placed an order, for collection in the next couple of
    days, I immediately get an email (from Trustpilot of course):

    <quote>How many stars would you give xxx

    Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase from xxx

    How did we do? </quote>

    How the f** do I know? Even when I collect it several weeks might
    pass by before I use it. Am I supposed to give them 5* just for
    having the ability to either receive an order or even merely supply
    an order?

    Anyway, I don't Trust the Pilot.

    Worse, if you do deign to give them a star rating then Trustpilot
    refuse to accept it unless you right a short primary school essay
    about it. I must say there is so little I could say about a box of
    cheap woodscrews that I wouldn't even try.

    Even more worser are some of the more americanised shops that demand
    to know what I "loved" about the product. I can't decide whether I
    object more to the presumptuousness or to the idea that anyone could
    "love" household shopping.

    --
    Roger Hayter

    When I wrote a short piece on Trustpilot about errors I had encountered
    and the unnecessarily long wait for goods, the vendor offered me the
    goods free of charge if I removed the review. I left it there.

    Maybe the reason the vendor found it worth losing money to give an
    appearance of proper functioning was that not long afterwards they went bankrupt, with many customers never getting their purchases.

    By then I had another order outstanding for £85 and was able to get a
    refund via a chargeback on my credit card but I believe most customers
    were not so lucky.

    Trustpilot should not permit customers to withdraw a review once it has
    been posted. Nor should Trustpilot have provided the vendor with my
    contact details. The lesson is not to trust reviews on Trustpilot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 5 18:20:55 2023
    In message <72dc941e-98a1-4f06-869f-c34f37bd6097n@googlegroups.com>, at 07:48:13 on Sat, 4 Nov 2023, Tony The Welsh Twat
    <tonythewelshtwat@gmail.com> remarked:
    On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 21:16:03 UTC, billy bookcase wrote:

    Fortunately, for present purposes at least there have been at least
    two cremation services regularly advertising on Freeview. Let's call
    them Caring Cremations and Sympathy Cremations

    On one of their ads, Caring Cremations boasted a Trustpilot rating of
    something around 4.9 out of five.

    When a bit of in depth Google Research (1.2 seconds )
    revealed that Caring Cremations used a central Crematorium,
    ISTR in the Midlands somewhere(well it would be, wouldn't it)
    possibly based on an Industrial Estate. Maybe between Kwik Fix
    and Screwfix. Grieving loved ones aren't allowed to attend
    cremations in person but can request a video of the coffin
    of choice going through the doors. They're then sent the
    ashes in their urn of choice presumably by a courier.

    Your points are noted but I remember reading recently that these "no
    frills budget" cremations are one of the fastest growing industries.

    As you point out, once your bereaved member of family is collected by
    them, that's the last you see of them.

    No paying your last respects or any guff like that. They even use
    "wood effect" coffins (which I guess means a cardboard box).

    If you only want to spend £1500 on a funeral instead of closer to
    £5000 then I can see the attraction.

    Being currently involved in one such circus, I'm not sure friends and
    relatives any more actually want to attend cremations/religious-funerals/burials etc, but are keen to turn up to a well-organised wake.
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony R. Gold@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Sun Nov 5 18:31:07 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 02:12:23 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

    On 02-Nov-23 20:45, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store.  A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me
    that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or
    perhaps have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's
    point of view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might
    arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information
    which is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.

    It hadn't occurred to me that "We have received your order" was
    ambiguous, but then I don't generally 'do' click and collect.

    But claiming "Your order is now complete." - when it self-evidently is
    not complete isn't ambiguous, it's just wrong.

    It is only wrong if you read Order as Purchase or Sale. If you read Order as
    a Request to Purchase then it's not wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to Anthony R. Gold on Mon Nov 6 20:24:05 2023
    On 05-Nov-23 23:31, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 02:12:23 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

    On 02-Nov-23 20:45, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store.  A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me >>>> that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or
    perhaps have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's
    point of view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might
    arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information
    which is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations >>>> at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.

    It hadn't occurred to me that "We have received your order" was
    ambiguous, but then I don't generally 'do' click and collect.

    But claiming "Your order is now complete." - when it self-evidently is
    not complete isn't ambiguous, it's just wrong.

    It is only wrong if you read Order as Purchase or Sale. If you read Order as a Request to Purchase then it's not wrong.

    If a company chooses to use that approach internally, then fine. They
    can call it a pink tutu if that makes them happy.

    If (as in this case) the company is communicating with the customer,
    they really should use language which addresses the customers interests (otherwise, why bother writing to the customer at all?).

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to uklm@permabulator.33mail.com on Mon Nov 6 18:43:04 2023
    On Sun, 05 Nov 2023 13:54:12 GMT, Pamela
    <uklm@permabulator.33mail.com> wrote:



    Trustpilot should not permit customers to withdraw a review once it has
    been posted. Nor should Trustpilot have provided the vendor with my
    contact details. The lesson is not to trust reviews on Trustpilot.


    Well it's a bit like trusting a car from "Honest Joe's Used Cars"
    (with apologies to all car dealers called Joe).


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony R. Gold@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Sun Nov 12 15:32:51 2023
    On Mon, 6 Nov 2023 20:24:05 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

    On 05-Nov-23 23:31, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 02:12:23 +0000, Sam Plusnet <not@home.com> wrote:

    On 02-Nov-23 20:45, Ian Jackson wrote:
    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7.103324@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <not@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store.  A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me >>>>> that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or
    perhaps have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's
    point of view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might >>>>> arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information
    which is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense? >>>>>
    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations >>>>> at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for >>>> click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it >>>> is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.

    It hadn't occurred to me that "We have received your order" was
    ambiguous, but then I don't generally 'do' click and collect.

    But claiming "Your order is now complete." - when it self-evidently is
    not complete isn't ambiguous, it's just wrong.

    It is only wrong if you read Order as Purchase or Sale. If you read Order as >> a Request to Purchase then it's not wrong.

    If a company chooses to use that approach internally, then fine. They
    can call it a pink tutu if that makes them happy.

    If (as in this case) the company is communicating with the customer,
    they really should use language which addresses the customers interests (otherwise, why bother writing to the customer at all?).

    I think that confirming to a customer that they have completely placed an
    order is clearer that talking about a pink tutu, but you may differ.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony R. Gold@21:1/5 to david.christopher.astles@gmail.com on Sun Nov 12 15:40:24 2023
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 12:10:24 -0700 (PDT), Dr Dave <david.christopher.astles@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 18:26:57 UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 20:45:43 +0000, Ian Jackson
    <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7....@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <n...@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me >>>> that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps >>>> have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which >>>> is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations >>>> at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for
    click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it
    is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.
    and having placed an order, for collection in the next couple of days,
    I immediately get an email (from Trustpilot of course):

    <quote>How many stars would you give xxx

    Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase from xxx

    How did we do? </quote>

    How the f** do I know? Even when I collect it several weeks might
    pass by before I use it. Am I supposed to give them 5* just for
    having the ability to either receive an order or even merely supply an
    order?

    Anyway, I don't Trust the Pilot.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    A bit like those people i restaurants who wonder around asking if everything is alright before the food has even arrived.

    So a waiter has already taken your order and you are comfortably seated at a non-wobbly table and are contentedly waiting for your food? How absurd of anyone to ask!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Roland Perry@21:1/5 to All on Thu Nov 23 10:08:04 2023
    In message <5md2li5b2oph6g9v6mgc7hv2pucbi3c7kg@4ax.com>, at 15:40:24 on
    Sun, 12 Nov 2023, Anthony R. Gold <not-for-mail@ahjg.co.uk> remarked:
    On Fri, 3 Nov 2023 12:10:24 -0700 (PDT), Dr Dave ><david.christopher.astles@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, 3 November 2023 at 18:26:57 UTC, AnthonyL wrote:
    On Thu, 2 Nov 2023 20:45:43 +0000, Ian Jackson
    <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> wrote:

    In message <LDR0N.175831$6sw7....@fx15.ams1>, Sam Plusnet
    <n...@home.com> writes
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store. A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me >>>>> that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps >>>>> have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of >>>>> view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it
    might arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which >>>>> is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations >>>>> at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    A variant is "We have received your order" when ordering something for >>>> click and collect. At first sight you might think that your order has
    arrived at the collection store, and is ready to be collected - but it >>>> is simply an acknowledgement that your request for the required goods
    has been received.
    and having placed an order, for collection in the next couple of days,
    I immediately get an email (from Trustpilot of course):

    <quote>How many stars would you give xxx

    Dear customer,

    Thank you for your recent purchase from xxx

    How did we do? </quote>

    How the f** do I know? Even when I collect it several weeks might
    pass by before I use it. Am I supposed to give them 5* just for
    having the ability to either receive an order or even merely supply an
    order?

    Anyway, I don't Trust the Pilot.

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    A bit like those people i restaurants who wonder around asking if >>everything is alright before the food has even arrived.

    So a waiter has already taken your order and you are comfortably seated at a >non-wobbly table and are contentedly waiting for your food? How absurd of >anyone to ask!

    On the other hand, you could complain that it's been half an hour since
    you ordered, and you are getting a bit impatient, and whatever happened
    to the bottle of wine you ordered on arrival?
    --
    Roland Perry

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sam Plusnet@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Thu Nov 23 19:01:07 2023
    On 02-Nov-23 18:11, Sam Plusnet wrote:
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store.  A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me
    that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps
    have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might
    arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    Late late self-follow up.

    When the parcel finally arrived (just after Evri admitted to having lost
    it) I wrote to the _supplier_ to tell them it had finally arrived.

    I got a reply to this - from _Evri_!

    What the %^&*?

    --
    Sam Plusnet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to Sam Plusnet on Fri Nov 24 10:45:00 2023
    On Thu, 23 Nov 2023 19:01:07 +0000, Sam Plusnet wrote:

    On 02-Nov-23 18:11, Sam Plusnet wrote:
    I recently ordered an item from an on-line store.  A couple of days
    after the order was placed, I received an email from them informing me
    that:

    "Your order is now complete."

    I _assume_ this means they have either dispatched the order, or perhaps
    have the order ready for dispatch - but from the customer's point of
    view the order is far from complete[1].

    i.e. I haven't received it, nor had any information on when it might
    arrive.

    If you are writing to a customer, should you not give information which
    is useful to the customer, and use language which makes sense?

    [1] Since the company have not completed their contractual obligations
    at this point, the order is clearly not complete.

    Late late self-follow up.

    When the parcel finally arrived (just after Evri admitted to having lost
    it) I wrote to the _supplier_ to tell them it had finally arrived.

    I got a reply to this - from _Evri_!

    What the %^&*?

    Suppliers and couriers (certainly in my role) form a loop. The supplier
    passes the customer details to the courier who then takes on the job of informing the customer of the progress of their package.

    You may have noticed a trend that when you place an order, you get an
    email from the *courier* saying they have received your parcel (usually
    with associated tracking link).

    But AFAIAA this has no bearing on the fact your contract is with the
    supplier, and if you don't get your goods it's their liability - no
    matter how hard they try to insist otherwise.

    I can totally understand the OPs emotions around EVRi who are clearly delivering the exact same quality service they did as Hermes. But as
    someone who works with all major UK couriers, I can only advise they are
    all equally efficient, easy to deal with, and achieving the same
    consistent relative quality to their advertising (and indeed contracts).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From AnthonyL@21:1/5 to jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com on Fri Nov 24 19:57:01 2023
    On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 10:45:00 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
    <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:



    I can totally understand the OPs emotions around EVRi who are clearly >delivering the exact same quality service they did as Hermes. But as
    someone who works with all major UK couriers, I can only advise they are
    all equally efficient, easy to deal with, and achieving the same
    consistent relative quality to their advertising (and indeed contracts).


    Oh, I thought the change was Everi delivery wrong whereas Hermes was
    just most deliveries wrong hence the name change, didn't realise it
    was a good as the same quality.


    --
    AnthonyL

    Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jethro_uk@21:1/5 to AnthonyL on Sat Nov 25 10:06:47 2023
    On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 19:57:01 +0000, AnthonyL wrote:

    On Fri, 24 Nov 2023 10:45:00 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk <jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:



    I can totally understand the OPs emotions around EVRi who are clearly >>delivering the exact same quality service they did as Hermes. But as >>someone who works with all major UK couriers, I can only advise they are >>all equally efficient, easy to deal with, and achieving the same
    consistent relative quality to their advertising (and indeed contracts).


    Oh, I thought the change was Everi delivery wrong whereas Hermes was
    just most deliveries wrong hence the name change, didn't realise it was
    a good as the same quality.

    I don't think they have (yet) issued a puff piece about "different name,
    same great service".

    My worry is that logo. I refuse to believe *no one* around the table said
    "er, that's very nice but looks the like logo of a 1940s British kids
    mag".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)