I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled, "Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled,
"Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
On 28/10/2023 14:58, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled,
"Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
Nor that the seller would have incurred costs in selling it.
"Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:BZ-dnT1ZWdljgKD4nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
On 28/10/2023 14:58, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled, >>>> "Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
Nor that the seller would have incurred costs in selling it.
Surely even if the seller was self employed philanthropist using
a computer in their local library, which is hardly ideal for a 24
hr operation, you must admit the ultimate cost would simply be
transferred to Council Tax payers.
It isn't that the cost of this transaction may easily be offset
by the profit from all their successful sales ; but rather that
without a computer and the electricity it consumes and all the other associated costs, software maybe, they couldn't sell on any
tickets at all.
"Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote in message news:BZ-dnT1ZWdljgKD4nZ2dnZeNn_ednZ2d@giganews.com...
On 28/10/2023 14:58, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled, >>>> "Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
Nor that the seller would have incurred costs in selling it.
Surely even if ...
It's funny how we all used to manage to get to the cinema, to the theatre (even the Old Vic and the RSC), to concerts and other events before Ticketmaster came into existence, isn't it?
"JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote in message news:kq7f39F6m2oU5@mid.individual.net...
:
It's funny how we all used to manage to get to the cinema, to the theatre
(even the Old Vic and the RSC), to concerts and other events before
Ticketmaster came into existence, isn't it?
Maybe even more remarkable is how we used to buy second hand-stuff*
before the advent of the likes of eBay. Remember Exchange and Mart ?
And after that, in London anyway, Loot ?
I've got old A to Z's, with the otherwise blank inside covers, full of
names and addresses of places where I'd bought, or at least looked
at stuff.
bb
* Everything from cars to stamps and even new stuff, on occasion.
"JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
It's funny how we all used to manage to get to the cinema, to the theatre
(even the Old Vic and the RSC), to concerts and other events before
Ticketmaster came into existence, isn't it?
Maybe even more remarkable is how we used to buy second hand-stuff*
before the advent of the likes of eBay. Remember Exchange and Mart ?
And after that, in London anyway, Loot ?
I've got old A to Z's, with the otherwise blank inside covers, full of
names and addresses of places where I'd bought, or at least looked
at stuff.
bb
* Everything from cars to stamps and even new stuff, on occasion.
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled,
"Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
On 29/10/2023 08:15 pm, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
It's funny how we all used to manage to get to the cinema, to the theatre >>> (even the Old Vic and the RSC), to concerts and other events before
Ticketmaster came into existence, isn't it?
Maybe even more remarkable is how we used to buy second hand-stuff*
before the advent of the likes of eBay. Remember Exchange and Mart ?
And after that, in London anyway, Loot ?
E&M was the Rolls-Royce experience for used sales. I sold a few things
via its pages when I lived in London, fifty+ years ago. In the 1980s, I
even managed to find the whole engine / gearbox assembly for a Metro at Universal Salvage (a national firm with many regional branches) for £175
inc VAT. They delivered to the garage doing the work - FOC.
Exchange and Mart was a wonderful publication.
Never saw Loot AFAICR. But the various local papers in London (not the Standard or News) were well-regarded for classified ads.
I've got old A to Z's, with the otherwise blank inside covers, full of
names and addresses of places where I'd bought, or at least looked
at stuff.
:-)
bb
* Everything from cars to stamps and even new stuff, on occasion.
It was great for car parts from door handles to engine blocks. eBay
seems to have taken over.
On 28/10/2023 14:58, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled,
"Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
That sounds quite a wheeze. While I can see your point, if I should
claim to have Kylie at the NEC and then cancel because I was unable to
hire Kylie or book the arena, I could via a separate entity, cream off a >couple of ££ per ticket and keep that?
On 30 Oct 2023 at 10:19:26 GMT, "JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
On 29/10/2023 08:15 pm, billy bookcase wrote:
"JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
It's funny how we all used to manage to get to the cinema, to the theatre >>>> (even the Old Vic and the RSC), to concerts and other events before
Ticketmaster came into existence, isn't it?
Maybe even more remarkable is how we used to buy second hand-stuff*
before the advent of the likes of eBay. Remember Exchange and Mart ?
And after that, in London anyway, Loot ?
E&M was the Rolls-Royce experience for used sales. I sold a few things
via its pages when I lived in London, fifty+ years ago. In the 1980s, I
even managed to find the whole engine / gearbox assembly for a Metro at
Universal Salvage (a national firm with many regional branches) for £175
inc VAT. They delivered to the garage doing the work - FOC.
Exchange and Mart was a wonderful publication.
Never saw Loot AFAICR. But the various local papers in London (not the
Standard or News) were well-regarded for classified ads.
The Standard was the go-to paper for finding flat shares.
I've got old A to Z's, with the otherwise blank inside covers, full of
names and addresses of places where I'd bought, or at least looked
at stuff.
:-)
bb
* Everything from cars to stamps and even new stuff, on occasion.
It was great for car parts from door handles to engine blocks. eBay
seems to have taken over.
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:11:58 +0000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
On 28/10/2023 14:58, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled, >>>> "Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
That sounds quite a wheeze. While I can see your point, if I should
claim to have Kylie at the NEC and then cancel because I was unable to
hire Kylie or book the arena, I could via a separate entity, cream off a >>couple of ££ per ticket and keep that?
That, I think, would be unlawful as it would be deliberately setting out to >deceive. But consider a real life situation that I happen to be involved in. >One of the consequences of Storm Babet was that the riverside meadows in my >town were flooded. One of those meadows is the location for the annual >bonfire and firework display. Which cannot now go ahead, as the meadow won't >dry out in time. So, we've had to cancel.
However, we were selling advance tickets for the event, both over the
counter and online. The online ticket sales come with a per-sale booking
fee, which is charged to us by the platform. If we cancel the event, we have >to refund customers. But we don't get a refund from the online ticket >platform. So, do we subtract the fee from the refund, or refund in full? The >former means that disappointed cusomers are out of pocket. The latter means >that we are. Either way, the ticket sales platform has still got its money. >Is that fair? And if not, what do you suggest should be done about it?
In message <7sjvjidj1cg2fdatrbcv16lvasc4bje221@4ax.com>, at 15:56:34 on
Mon, 30 Oct 2023, Mark Goodge <usenet@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
However, we were selling advance tickets for the event, both over the >counter and online. The online ticket sales come with a per-sale
booking fee, which is charged to us by the platform. If we cancel the >event, we have to refund customers. But we don't get a refund from
the online ticket platform. So, do we subtract the fee from the
refund, or refund in full? The former means that disappointed
cusomers are out of pocket. The latter means that we are. Either way,
the ticket sales platform has still got its money. Is that fair? And
if not, what do you suggest should be done about it?
If you also had a bricks-and-mortar outlet for advance ticket sales for
cash, it could be possible to argue that the online booking fee is
something the attendees were willing to accept as a sunk cost, for the convenience.
Next year, pick a platform with more customer-friendly T&C.
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:11:58 +0000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
On 28/10/2023 14:58, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled, >>>> "Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
That sounds quite a wheeze. While I can see your point, if I should
claim to have Kylie at the NEC and then cancel because I was unable to
hire Kylie or book the arena, I could via a separate entity, cream off a
couple of ££ per ticket and keep that?
That, I think, would be unlawful as it would be deliberately setting out to deceive. But consider a real life situation that I happen to be involved in. One of the consequences of Storm Babet was that the riverside meadows in my town were flooded. One of those meadows is the location for the annual bonfire and firework display. Which cannot now go ahead, as the meadow won't dry out in time. So, we've had to cancel.
However, we were selling advance tickets for the event, both over the
counter and online. The online ticket sales come with a per-sale booking
fee, which is charged to us by the platform. If we cancel the event, we have to refund customers. But we don't get a refund from the online ticket platform. So, do we subtract the fee from the refund, or refund in full? The former means that disappointed cusomers are out of pocket. The latter means that we are. Either way, the ticket sales platform has still got its money. Is that fair? And if not, what do you suggest should be done about it?
On 30/10/2023 15:56, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:11:58 +0000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
On 28/10/2023 14:58, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-28, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled, >>>>> "Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
I don't see why not (unless you literally *couldn't* see the terms
until after paying). The fees are for the service of selling you the
ticket, which has been completed as soon as you have the ticket.
If the event is later cancelled then that doesn't undo the fact that
you did successfully get the ticket.
That sounds quite a wheeze. While I can see your point, if I should
claim to have Kylie at the NEC and then cancel because I was unable to
hire Kylie or book the arena, I could via a separate entity, cream off a >>> couple of ££ per ticket and keep that?
That, I think, would be unlawful as it would be deliberately setting out to >> deceive. But consider a real life situation that I happen to be involved in. >> One of the consequences of Storm Babet was that the riverside meadows in my >> town were flooded. One of those meadows is the location for the annual
bonfire and firework display. Which cannot now go ahead, as the meadow won't >> dry out in time. So, we've had to cancel.
However, we were selling advance tickets for the event, both over the
counter and online. The online ticket sales come with a per-sale booking
fee, which is charged to us by the platform. If we cancel the event, we have >> to refund customers. But we don't get a refund from the online ticket
platform. So, do we subtract the fee from the refund, or refund in full? The >> former means that disappointed cusomers are out of pocket. The latter means >> that we are. Either way, the ticket sales platform has still got its money. >> Is that fair? And if not, what do you suggest should be done about it?
The online ticket platform has supplied the service it charged for, so
is entitled to its money. Whether you decide to refund the full amount,
the amount paid less the fee, or to split the fee between you and the customer, is something for your bonfire society to decide, based upon
how you think customers will react in the circumstances and how it will affect the society's funds.
On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 11:11:58 +0000, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
That, I think, would be unlawful as it would be deliberately setting out
to deceive.
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled, "Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
One of the consequences of Storm Babet was that the riverside meadows in my town were flooded. One of those meadows is the location for the annual bonfire and firework display. Which cannot now go ahead, as the meadow won't dry out in time. So, we've had to cancel.
However, we were selling advance tickets for the event, both over the
counter and online. The online ticket sales come with a per-sale booking
fee, which is charged to us by the platform. If we cancel the event, we have to refund customers. But we don't get a refund from the online ticket platform. So, do we subtract the fee from the refund, or refund in full? The former means that disappointed cusomers are out of pocket. The latter means that we are. Either way, the ticket sales platform has still got its money. Is that fair? And if not, what do you suggest should be done about it?
On Sat, 28 Oct 2023 14:38:48 +0100, Fredxx wrote:
I hate booking fees but they're a necessary evil.
However the terms and conditions state that if the event is cancelled,
"Booking fees are non-refundable".
Is this kosher? Of course I only see these terms after paying money!
Did they add any value to the transaction ?
I have a particular ire for what I call "shim outfits" who interpose >themselves between consumer and provider and then do fuck all.
2 instances spring to mind. One telecoms outfit who were suppoed to heko
us get the best deal and take care of *all* our telecoms. The moment
there was a billing error (first month) they put their hands up and said >"nothing to do with us". Turned out they had zero obligations to do
anything for the 15% they were creaming off.
A year later I had to use a company "Parcels2Go" that were supposed to
act as an agent commissioning and dealing with couriers. Courer was late,
I complained to Parcels2Go who said "nothing to do with us, you need to
take it up with the courier".
Both experiences were in a commercial setting and out of my control
(company policy). Luckily it's meant I avoid such outfits where I can.
AirB'B and UberEats seem to be similar outfits.
Quite happy to take the money until there is a problem. Then the words >"Scotch Mist" spring to mind.
At least insurance brokers do the grunt work of delaing with an insurer
for their daily bread.
Yes, we had a serious incident with AirBNB earlier this year. We booked a holiday let having specified to their search engine that accessible was essential. So they sent a shortlist and we booked one. When the booking confirmation came through minutes later it as clear the property was an upstairs flat that was not accessible.
We booked a holiday let having specified to their search engine that accessible
If this really is AirBNB's amateurish way of going about things, then it seems yet one more reason to avoid them like the plague
On Sat, 04 Nov 2023 10:05:23 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
We booked a holiday let having specified to their search engine that
accessible
There's no such thing. That was your first mistake.
On Sat, 4 Nov 2023 13:50:32 -0000 (UTC), Jethro_uk
<jethro_uk@hotmailbin.com> wrote:
[quoted text muted]
On the contrary, "Accessibility features" is one of the filter sections
on the website. It includes things like "Step-free guest access", which clearly would not be met by a first-floor property without a lift.
"Roland Perry" <roland@perry.uk> wrote in message >news:eRjHMZNjdhRlFAlr@perry.uk...
Yes, we had a serious incident with AirBNB earlier this year. We booked a
holiday let having specified to their search engine that accessible was
essential. So they sent a shortlist and we booked one. When the booking
confirmation came through minutes later it as clear the property was an
upstairs flat that was not accessible.
Surely isn't it a big fault with AirBNB's business model that a
customer might only find out, "after" booking, that a flat was
upstairs ?
Surely every possible piece of available information about the
property, about anything in fact which was going to be bought
or booked online, from plane flights, to cars to packets of screws
to holidays must be made available to the customer before they
commit themselves ? Thus enabling them to make a more informed
choice, and avoid potential causes of complaint.
Isn't there some sort of basic business principle here ?
If this really is AirBNB's amateurish way of going about things,
then it seems yet one more reason to avoid them like the plague
On Sat, 04 Nov 2023 10:05:23 +0000, Roland Perry wrote:
We booked a holiday let having specified to their search engine that
accessible
There's no such thing. That was your first mistake.
Nothing was ever going to get better from there.
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