https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by
the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household
items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an
online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash
as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see
thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by
the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household
items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an
online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash
as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove
otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by
the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash
as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by
the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash
as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 14:25:16 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see
thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by
the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household
items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an
online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash >>> as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >>> otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as
traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading should pay the relevant tax.
Jonathan
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by
the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household
items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an
online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash
as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading should pay the relevant tax.
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they are getting (out of
the pockets and paypackets of others).
On 18 Oct 2023 at 14:41:24 BST, "Jonathan Ward" <wardjfb@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 14:25:16 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see >>>> thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by >>>> the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household >>>> items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an >>>> online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash >>>> as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy >>>> 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >>>> otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as
traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading should pay
the relevant tax.
Jonathan
A threshold turnover would be reasonable. Below a few thousand the cost of properly accounting for everything would be greater than the profit. And for small trading a reasonable wage for the work done would probably be a lot more
than the notional profits, so it is probably, once one has done the accounting, not a profitable activity. And therefore not liable for tax.
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:06 schrieb JNugent:
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which they
are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they are
getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
This is very much a "Guardia di Finanza"-like mindset,
we used to call it Inquisition back in the 1600s.
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading should pay
the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 14:25:16 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:employed use an accountant.
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see
thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by
the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household
items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an
online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash >>> as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >>> otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as
traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
It is not so much the unpaid tax that HMRC are after, but the [larger] penalties for non-compliance.
Someone who lets their own home on AirBNB while they go on holiday for a month is unlikely to NET more than £1k and certainly won't want to waste hours and hours entering a schedule D tax return, the complexity of which are such that AIUI most self-
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will
count towards this tax year's income.
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will
count towards this tax year's income.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you are taxed on, not turnover.
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 20:37:37 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
But surely selling your own second-hand stuff is only a tax issue if you
have made a gain? Not people just clearing out their junk for less than
they paid for it.
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will
count towards this tax year's income.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you >> are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000 *before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into
that category.
On 19/10/2023 11:47, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote: >>>>> On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between >>>>>>> trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is
already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into
that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a
number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
As I have already pointed out, these rules only apply to people who can
be classed as traders and need not concern people selling the odd second
hand item. So, if you are regularly buying cars to do up and sell on,
you will be covered by the new rules. If you simply sell the old car you
have been driving for years, you are not.
However, I don't recall ever selling an old car. Mine have always been
traded in as part of a new purchase, so I have had no income from them. Certainly nothing my accountant has been interested in when doing my
personal tax returns.
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is
already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into
that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
--
Colin Bignell
On 18/10/2023 04:38 pm, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:06 schrieb JNugent:
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which
they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they
are getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
This is very much a "Guardia di Finanza"-like mindset,
Thank you.
we used to call it Inquisition back in the 1600s.
Have they been going that long?
On 18 Oct 2023 at 14:41:24 BST, "Jonathan Ward" <war...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 14:25:16 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see >>> thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by >>> the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household >>> items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an >>> online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra cash >>> as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy >>> 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >>> otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as
traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading should pay
the relevant tax.
JonathanA threshold turnover would be reasonable. Below a few thousand the cost of properly accounting for everything would be greater than the profit. And for small trading a reasonable wage for the work done would probably be a lot more
than the notional profits, so it is probably, once one has done the accounting, not a profitable activity. And therefore not liable for tax.
--
Roger Hayter
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is
already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into
that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000 *before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make aAre you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number of people are in for a shock if this is true.
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into that category.
--
Roger Hayter
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 09:11:38 +0000, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove
otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It's not changing the rules. It's simply making the existing rules easier to enforce. The limits below which you are not liable to pay tax on side earnings will remain unchanged. But for people who are, under the existing rules, liable to pay tax on side earnings will find it harder to evade
paying that tax.
On 19 Oct 2023 at 12:21:03 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 11:47, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote: >>>>>> On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between >>>>>>>> trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is >>>> already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a >>>> self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into >>>> that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a >>> number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
As I have already pointed out, these rules only apply to people who can
be classed as traders and need not concern people selling the odd second
hand item. So, if you are regularly buying cars to do up and sell on,
you will be covered by the new rules. If you simply sell the old car you
have been driving for years, you are not.
However, I don't recall ever selling an old car. Mine have always been
traded in as part of a new purchase, so I have had no income from them.
Certainly nothing my accountant has been interested in when doing my
personal tax returns.
Your car buying habits differ from mine, clearly.
But I equally do not believe that somenone selling a few thousand pounds worth
of their own secondhand household goods needs to fill in a tax return, as you seemed to be implying.
Even though selling stuff they've bought when better
off may improve their liquidity in harder times.
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:59 schrieb JNugent:
On 18/10/2023 04:38 pm, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:06 schrieb JNugent:
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which
they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they
are getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
This is very much a "Guardia di Finanza"-like mindset,
Thank you.
we used to call it Inquisition back in the 1600s.
Have they been going that long?
They just changed name. Italy has had the same government since 750 BC.
On 19/10/2023 10:29, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 09:11:38 +0000, Ottavio Caruso
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >>> otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It's not changing the rules. It's simply making the existing rules
easier to enforce. The limits below which you are not liable to pay
tax on side earnings will remain unchanged. But for people who are,
under the existing rules, liable to pay tax on side earnings will
find it harder to evade paying that tax.
Given the complexity of the tax system, and the lack of man-power in
HMRC who would rather not investigate trivial matters like these there
seems little point in publishing such directives.
The only likely outcome is it might dissuade some from starting up a
small business.
On 19 Oct 2023 at 12:21:03 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
As I have already pointed out, these rules only apply to people who can
be classed as traders and need not concern people selling the odd second hand item. So, if you are regularly buying cars to do up and sell on,
you will be covered by the new rules. If you simply sell the old car you have been driving for years, you are not.
But I equally do not believe that somenone selling a few thousand pounds worth
of their own secondhand household goods needs to fill in a tax return, as you seemed to be implying. Even though selling stuff they've bought when better off may improve their liquidity in harder times.
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:59 schrieb JNugent:
On 18/10/2023 04:38 pm, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:06 schrieb JNugent:
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which
they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they
are getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
This is very much a "Guardia di Finanza"-like mindset,
Thank you.
we used to call it Inquisition back in the 1600s.
Have they been going that long?
They just changed name. Italy has had the same government since 750 BC.
On 18/10/2023 10:11 am, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-
taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-
HMRC.html#:~
:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%
20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could
see thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught
out by the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and
household items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or
baked goods via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a
holiday home via an online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra
cash as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according
to a survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being
Italy 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless
they prove otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
Ah yes... the widely-feared Guardia di Finanza, so dreaded by (some) self-employed Italians, including at least one of my acquaintance.
But why shouldn't people operating small businesses account for them
in the normal way and pay any taxes that may be due?
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which
they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they
are getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago,
let alone nearly three millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the
Roman Empire.
No one in Europe beats the Italians when it come to tax evasion,
according to the survey below
Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100 characters.
On 2023-10-19, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 10:29, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 09:11:38 +0000, Ottavio Caruso
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy >>>> 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >>>> otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It's not changing the rules. It's simply making the existing rules
easier to enforce. The limits below which you are not liable to pay
tax on side earnings will remain unchanged. But for people who are,
under the existing rules, liable to pay tax on side earnings will
find it harder to evade paying that tax.
Given the complexity of the tax system, and the lack of man-power in
HMRC who would rather not investigate trivial matters like these there
seems little point in publishing such directives.
The only likely outcome is it might dissuade some from starting up a
small business.
It won't make any difference to people starting up a business,
because the rules for them are not changing.
On 18/10/2023 15:33, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 14:25:16 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could see >>>> thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by >>>> the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household >>>> items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods
via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an >>>> online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra
cash
as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy >>>> 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they
prove
otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as
traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
It is not so much the unpaid tax that HMRC are after, but the [larger]
penalties for non-compliance.
Someone who lets their own home on AirBNB while they go on holiday for
a month is unlikely to NET more than £1k and certainly won't want to
waste hours and hours entering a schedule D tax return, the complexity
of which are such that AIUI most self-employed use an accountant.
I consider that an accountant is essential for that.
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:59 schrieb JNugent:
On 18/10/2023 04:38 pm, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:06 schrieb JNugent:
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which
they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they >>>>> are getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
This is very much a "Guardia di Finanza"-like mindset,
Thank you.
we used to call it Inquisition back in the 1600s.
Have they been going that long?
They just changed name. Italy has had the same government since 750 BC.
Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is
already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into
that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 20:37:37 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
But surely selling your own second-hand stuff is only a tax issue if you
have made a gain?
Not people just clearing out their junk for less than
they paid for it.
On 16:06 18 Oct 2023, JNugent said:
On 18/10/2023 10:11 am, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-
taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-
HMRC.html#:~
:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%
20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could
see thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught
out by the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and
household items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or
baked goods via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a
holiday home via an online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra
cash as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according
to a survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being
Italy 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless
they prove otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
Ah yes... the widely-feared Guardia di Finanza, so dreaded by (some)
self-employed Italians, including at least one of my acquaintance.
But why shouldn't people operating small businesses account for them
in the normal way and pay any taxes that may be due?
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which
they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they
are getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
No one in Europe beats the Italians when it come to tax evasion,
according to the survey below. However Britain is not quite as virtuous
as some may believe.
https://www.statista.com/chart/17133/tax-evasion-cost-to-eu-countries/
On 19/10/2023 14:35, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-19, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 10:29, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 09:11:38 +0000, Ottavio Caruso
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy >>>>> 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >>>>> otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It's not changing the rules. It's simply making the existing rules
easier to enforce. The limits below which you are not liable to pay
tax on side earnings will remain unchanged. But for people who are,
under the existing rules, liable to pay tax on side earnings will
find it harder to evade paying that tax.
Given the complexity of the tax system, and the lack of man-power in
HMRC who would rather not investigate trivial matters like these there
seems little point in publishing such directives.
The only likely outcome is it might dissuade some from starting up a
small business.
It won't make any difference to people starting up a business,
because the rules for them are not changing.
Hmm, a lot of businesses start out as a hobby run in a living room.
On 2023-10-19, Fredxx <fredxx@spam.invalid> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 10:29, Mark Goodge wrote:
On Wed, 18 Oct 2023 09:11:38 +0000, Ottavio Caruso
<ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy >>>> 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they prove >>>> otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It's not changing the rules. It's simply making the existing rules
easier to enforce. The limits below which you are not liable to pay
tax on side earnings will remain unchanged. But for people who are,
under the existing rules, liable to pay tax on side earnings will
find it harder to evade paying that tax.
Given the complexity of the tax system, and the lack of man-power in
HMRC who would rather not investigate trivial matters like these there
seems little point in publishing such directives.
The only likely outcome is it might dissuade some from starting up a
small business.
It won't make any difference to people starting up a business,
because the rules for them are not changing.
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100
characters.
Fair enough. What is inaccurate about what I said?
And what was accurate
about your claim that "Italy has had the same government since 750 BC"?
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006...@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:59 schrieb JNugent:
On 18/10/2023 04:38 pm, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:06 schrieb JNugent:
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which
they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they >>>> are getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
This is very much a "Guardia di Finanza"-like mindset,
Thank you.
we used to call it Inquisition back in the 1600s.
Have they been going that long?
They just changed name. Italy has had the same government since 750 BC.
What do you mean by that? Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago,
let alone nearly three millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the
Roman Empire.
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:59 schrieb JNugent:
On 18/10/2023 04:38 pm, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 15:06 schrieb JNugent:
This is especially true and important if a whole 33% of UK workers
have undeclared income, not forgetting that some of them will
undoubtedly be receiving in-work or out-of-work benefits to which
they are either not entitled at all or are entitled to less than they >>>> are getting (out of the pockets and paypackets of others).
This is very much a "Guardia di Finanza"-like mindset,
Thank you.
we used to call it Inquisition back in the 1600s.
Have they been going that long?
They just changed name. Italy has had the same government since 750 BC.Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
Am 19/10/2023 um 15:45 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100
characters.
Fair enough. What is inaccurate about what I said?
1) "Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago". I won't dignify that with a comment.
2) "let alone nearly three millennia ago". See above.
3) "750BC predates even the Roman Empire". Rome existed way before the
Roman Empire existed and Italy existed way before Rome came into
existence. As a geographical/ethnic/cultural entity of course, not as a legal/political one.
There were Italic languages way before Latin ever existed. In the region where I was born, the locals spoke an early form of Occitan, still
widely spoken in the South of France, before the Romans came.
And what was accurate
about your claim that "Italy has had the same government since 750 BC"?
It is humour, but it actually contains some truth. Our legal system (especially civil and family law) is still largely based on Roman law.
The word "obligation" comes from Latin "ob ligatio", that is, tying a
slave to a tree or a column as a form of pawn.
Am 19/10/2023 um 15:45 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100
characters.
Fair enough. What is inaccurate about what I said?
1) "Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago". I won't dignify that with a comment.
2) "let alone nearly three millennia ago". See above.
3) "750BC predates even the Roman Empire". Rome existed way before the
Roman Empire existed and Italy existed way before Rome came into
existence. As a geographical/ethnic/cultural entity of course, not as a legal/political one.
There were Italic languages way before Latin ever existed. In the region where I was born, the locals spoke an early form of Occitan, still
widely spoken in the South of France, before the Romans came.
And what was accurate
about your claim that "Italy has had the same government since 750 BC"?
It is humour, but it actually contains some truth. Our legal system (especially civil and family law) is still largely based on Roman law.
The word "obligation" comes from Latin "ob ligatio", that is, tying a
slave to a tree or a column as a form of pawn.
On 19/10/2023 11:47 am, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote: >>>>> On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between >>>>>>> trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is
already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into
that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a
number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
It isn't true and he didn't say it.
On 19/10/2023 17:07, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 19/10/2023 um 15:45 schrieb Jon Ribbens:This is a legal newsgroup. Wikipedia says
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100
characters.
Fair enough. What is inaccurate about what I said?
1) "Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago". I won't dignify that with a
comment.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Italy>
"the 1946 Italian constitutional referendum abolished the monarchy and
became a republic"
Doesn't this mean that from a _legal_ point of view that is the date
when Italy came into being? (unlike say the UK, which has legal systems dating back to the Norman conquest of 1066)
England / GB has the longest period without extraconstitutional change since 1688 and without violence since 1651.
England / GB has the longest period without extraconstitutional change
since 1688 and without violence since 1651.
OTOH in the last 250 years has had a revolution, a convention, a reign of terror, a directory, a consulate, two empires, two restorations, five
total or partial foreign occupations, and five republics.
Not as au fait with Italy's history, but it was not even united until
about 1870,
Am 19/10/2023 um 16:25 schrieb notya...@gmail.com:
England / GB has the longest period without extraconstitutional change
since 1688 and without violence since 1651.
Err, Ireland, the Troubles?
On 18/10/2023 08:39 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 15:33, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 14:25:16 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which could
see
thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught out by >>>>> the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and household >>>>> items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods >>>>> via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home via an >>>>> online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of extra
cash
as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a
survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being Italy >>>>> 2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they
prove
otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as >>>> traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
It is not so much the unpaid tax that HMRC are after, but the
[larger] penalties for non-compliance.
Someone who lets their own home on AirBNB while they go on holiday
for a month is unlikely to NET more than £1k and certainly won't want
to waste hours and hours entering a schedule D tax return, the
complexity of which are such that AIUI most self-employed use an
accountant.
I consider that an accountant is essential for that.
Not for trading turnover of a few thousand pa on a "side hustle".
A P&L a/c is easy to draw up and it is all, in any case, covered by the
HMRC form they send.
On 19 Oct 2023 at 15:27:16 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 11:47 am, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote: >>>>>> On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between >>>>>>>> trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is >>>> already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a >>>> self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into >>>> that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a >>> number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
It isn't true and he didn't say it.
What about, and still above:
"The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will
count towards this tax year's income."
That certainly implies that selling your own used goods (which would logically
include cars) counts as income.
I think he did say it, even if on reflection he doesn't still think so.
On 19/10/2023 17:52, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 15:27:16 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 11:47 am, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote: >>>>>>> On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>>>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>>>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between >>>>>>>>> trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000 >>>>> *before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is >>>>> already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a >>>>> self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into >>>>> that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a >>>> number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
It isn't true and he didn't say it.
What about, and still above:
"The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will
count towards this tax year's income."
That certainly implies that selling your own used goods (which would logically
include cars) counts as income.
I think he did say it, even if on reflection he doesn't still think so.
I said it would be income. I did not say that all income requires a tax return.
"Ottavio Caruso" <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:ugrnn5$f8b1$1@dont-email.me...
Am 19/10/2023 um 16:25 schrieb notya...@gmail.com:
England / GB has the longest period without extraconstitutional change
since 1688 and without violence since 1651.
Err, Ireland, the Troubles?
It's the United Kingdon of Great Britain (GB - England Scotland and Wales) and formerly Ireland, latterly
Northern Ireland.
bb
On 19 Oct 2023 at 21:01:55 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 17:52, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 15:27:16 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 11:47 am, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote: >>>>>>>> On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between >>>>>>>>>> trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will
count towards this tax year's income.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000 >>>>>> *before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is >>>>>> already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a >>>>>> self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into >>>>>> that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a >>>>> number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
It isn't true and he didn't say it.
What about, and still above:
"The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will
count towards this tax year's income."
That certainly implies that selling your own used goods (which would logically
include cars) counts as income.
I think he did say it, even if on reflection he doesn't still think so.
I said it would be income. I did not say that all income requires a tax
return.
But income in the HMRC context implies profit.
And it would be rare to profit
from the sale of household goods including cars.
Nor would selling "stuff that
has been in your garage for several years" be trading in any ordinary sense of
the word.
So in the context of this thread I think your statement is
misleading.
On 19 Oct 2023 at 12:21:03 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 11:47, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell" <cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote: >>>>>> On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell" <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff that >>>>>> has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>>>> count towards this tax year's income.
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from trading >>>>>>>>>> should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates between >>>>>>>> trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. You can >>>>>>>> even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. This is >>>> already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to make a >>>> self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who falls into >>>> that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been driving for a >>> number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
As I have already pointed out, these rules only apply to people who can
be classed as traders and need not concern people selling the odd second
hand item. So, if you are regularly buying cars to do up and sell on,
you will be covered by the new rules. If you simply sell the old car you
have been driving for years, you are not.
However, I don't recall ever selling an old car. Mine have always been
traded in as part of a new purchase, so I have had no income from them.
Certainly nothing my accountant has been interested in when doing my
personal tax returns.
Your car buying habits differ from mine, clearly.
But I equally do not believe that somenone selling a few thousand pounds worth
of their own secondhand household goods needs to fill in a tax return, as you seemed to be implying. Even though selling stuff they've bought when better off may improve their liquidity in harder times.
Am 19/10/2023 um 16:25 schrieb notya...@gmail.com:
England / GB has the longest period without extraconstitutional change
since 1688 and without violence since 1651.
Err, Ireland, the Troubles?
On 19/10/2023 15:24, JNugent wrote:
On 18/10/2023 08:39 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 18/10/2023 15:33, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 14:25:16 UTC+1, Colin Bignell wrote: >>>>> On 18/10/2023 10:11, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-hand-income-data-directly-HMRC.html#:~:text=New%20regulations%20from%20January%201,start%20to%20be%20given%20automatically.
## quote
Sweeping new tax rules will be introduced on January 1, which
could see
thousands of people who earn a bit of extra income being caught
out by
the taxman if they haven’t declared it.
Those affected include anyone who buys and sells clothes and
household
items using online marketplaces, sells homemade crafts or baked goods >>>>>> via the internet, works as a driver or rents out a holiday home
via an
online platform.
Almost a third of UK workers have found ways to earn a bit of
extra cash
as the cost-of-living crisis squeezes their income, according to a >>>>>> survey by comparison website money.co.uk.
## end quote
Are the HMRC so desperate? The UK is really moving towards being
Italy
2.0 where everybody is suspected of being a tax evader unless they >>>>>> prove
otherwise. Or am I getting the picture wrong here?
It also goes on to say that this is aimed at people who are classed as >>>>> traders. I.e. those who are, effectively, running a small business.
--
Colin Bignell
It is not so much the unpaid tax that HMRC are after, but the
[larger] penalties for non-compliance.
Someone who lets their own home on AirBNB while they go on holiday
for a month is unlikely to NET more than £1k and certainly won't
want to waste hours and hours entering a schedule D tax return, the
complexity of which are such that AIUI most self-employed use an
accountant.
I consider that an accountant is essential for that.
Not for trading turnover of a few thousand pa on a "side hustle".
A P&L a/c is easy to draw up and it is all, in any case, covered by
the HMRC form they send.
I find that form complicated enough when it has been completed by my accountant.
On 19 Oct 2023 at 19:53:05 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <billy@anon.com> wrote:
"Ottavio Caruso" <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ugrnn5$f8b1$1@dont-email.me...
Am 19/10/2023 um 16:25 schrieb notya...@gmail.com:
England / GB has the longest period without extraconstitutional change >>>> since 1688 and without violence since 1651.
Err, Ireland, the Troubles?
It's the United Kingdon of Great Britain (GB - England Scotland and
Wales)
and formerly Ireland, latterly
Northern Ireland.
bb
Our constitution is such that we can add or subtract various territories
from the UK state entirely at the whim of Parliament, without doing
anything extra-constitutional. But Mr Caruso does have a point, various
acts of union and disunion would sound like constitutional changes to
most people.
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100
characters.
Fair enough. What is inaccurate about what I said? And what was accurate about your claim that "Italy has had the same government since 750 BC"?
On 2023-10-19, Jon Ribbens wrote:
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100
characters.
Fair enough. What is inaccurate about what I said? And what was accurate
about your claim that "Italy has had the same government since 750 BC"?
I'm pretty sure it was facetious rather than to be taken literally.
On 19/10/2023 22:57, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 21:01:55 BST, "Colin Bignell"
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 17:52, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 15:27:16 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:I said it would be income. I did not say that all income requires a tax
On 19/10/2023 11:47 am, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell"
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell >>>>>>>> wrote:
On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell"The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out >>>>>>>>> stuff that
<c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from >>>>>>>>>>>>> trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates >>>>>>>>>>> between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear out. >>>>>>>>>>> You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your >>>>>>>>>> own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with any >>>>>>>>>> number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for >>>>>>>>> it will
count towards this tax year's income.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade,
it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than £1,000 >>>>>>> *before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on.
This is
already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to
make a
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who
falls into
that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been
driving for a
number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are >>>>>> large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
It isn't true and he didn't say it.
What about, and still above:
"The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff
that
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it will >>>> count towards this tax year's income."
That certainly implies that selling your own used goods (which would
logically
include cars) counts as income.
I think he did say it, even if on reflection he doesn't still think so. >>>
return.
But income in the HMRC context implies profit.
Not at all. It is literately money that comes in.
And it would be rare to profit
from the sale of household goods including cars.
However, HMRC are not interested in whether you make a profit from it,
only in how much it contributes to your annual income and that only if
you meet the criteria for being a trader.
Nor would selling "stuff that
has been in your garage for several years" be trading in any ordinary
sense of
the word.
Which is what I said earlier.
So in the context of this thread I think your statement is
misleading.
Only if you wrongly equate income with profit. Profit is relevant to how
much tax a business has to pay, but individuals are taxed on their
annual income, which is why it is called income tax.
On 19/10/2023 23:32, Colin Bignell wrote:
On 19/10/2023 22:57, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 21:01:55 BST, "Colin Bignell"
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 17:52, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 15:27:16 BST, "JNugent" <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 11:47 am, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 19 Oct 2023 at 10:38:30 BST, "Colin Bignell"
<cpb@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 19/10/2023 09:39, David McNeish wrote:
On Wednesday, 18 October 2023 at 23:06:11 UTC+1, Colin Bignell >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On 18/10/2023 22:13, Roger Hayter wrote:
On 18 Oct 2023 at 20:36:54 BST, "Colin Bignell"The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out >>>>>>>>>> stuff that
<c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
wrote:
On 18/10/2023 16:36, Ottavio Caruso wrote:
Am 18/10/2023 um 13:41 schrieb Jonathan Ward:
I would have expected that anyone who makes any money from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> trading
should pay the relevant tax.
Even if it's personal stuff?
If you read the article, it says that HMRC differentiates >>>>>>>>>>>> between
trading in the way of a business and an occasional clear >>>>>>>>>>>> out. You can
even exceed the £1,000 threshold if doing the latter.
Well of course you can - selling things you bought for your >>>>>>>>>>> own use is almost
invariably trading at a loss; reaching !000GBP profit with >>>>>>>>>>> any number of sales
at a loss would be quite an achievement.
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get >>>>>>>>>> for it will
count towards this tax year's income.
Even if you're doing it enough for it to constitute a trade, >>>>>>>>> it's profit you
are taxed on, not turnover.
The requirement is to make a return if earnings are more than
£1,000
*before* deducting anything that tax relief can be claimed on. >>>>>>>> This is
already the requirement for anybody trading as a sole trader to >>>>>>>> make a
self assessment tax return. The new rules simply clarify who
falls into
that category.
Are you telling us that every time I sell a car I have been
driving for a
number of years that I have to fill in a tax return? I think are >>>>>>> large number
of people are in for a shock if this is true.
It isn't true and he didn't say it.
What about, and still above:
"The criterion is income, not profit. If you are clearing out stuff
that
has been in your garage for several years, anything you get for it
will
count towards this tax year's income."
That certainly implies that selling your own used goods (which
would logically
include cars) counts as income.
I think he did say it, even if on reflection he doesn't still think
so.
I said it would be income. I did not say that all income requires a tax >>>> return.
But income in the HMRC context implies profit.
Not at all. It is literately money that comes in.
And it would be rare to profit
from the sale of household goods including cars.
However, HMRC are not interested in whether you make a profit from it,
only in how much it contributes to your annual income and that only if
you meet the criteria for being a trader.
Nor would selling "stuff that
has been in your garage for several years" be trading in any ordinary
sense of
the word.
Which is what I said earlier.
So in the context of this thread I think your statement is
misleading.
Only if you wrongly equate income with profit. Profit is relevant to
how much tax a business has to pay, but individuals are taxed on their
annual income, which is why it is called income tax.
OK. So lets say you buy a car brand new at dealer price. You have
already paid VAT via the dealer.
You then sell the car on 2 years later and you sell it for more than £1000.
Are you saying that HMRC can now tax you on the excess above £1000 at
20% or 40% as its "income"?
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 19/10/2023 um 15:45 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>> Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100
characters.
Fair enough. What is inaccurate about what I said?
1) "Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago". I won't dignify that with a
comment.
Well, it's true. I'm sorry if you find that upsetting. You might like
to learn some of your country's history though, it's quite interesting.
On Thu, Oct 19 2023, Jon Ribbens <jon+usenet@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote:
Am 19/10/2023 um 15:45 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
On 2023-10-19, Ottavio Caruso <ottavio2006-usenet2012@yahoo.com> wrote: >>>>> Am 19/10/2023 um 13:34 schrieb Jon Ribbens:
Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago, let alone nearly three
millennia ago, and 750BC predates even the Roman Empire.
You manage to cram an amount of gross inaccuracies in less than 100
characters.
Fair enough. What is inaccurate about what I said?
1) "Italy didn't even exist 160 years ago". I won't dignify that with a
comment.
Well, it's true. I'm sorry if you find that upsetting. You might like
to learn some of your country's history though, it's quite interesting.
And there's a national day celebrating the unification of Italy on 17th
March
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anniversary_of_the_Unification_of_Italy
so even some Italians think it was re-created then!
Ok so 162 years!
On 19/10/2023 02:30 pm, Adam Funk wrote:
Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
Romani Ite Domus.
On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:30:43 +0100, JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 02:30 pm, Adam Funk wrote:
Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
Romani Ite Domus.
Romani ite domum.
Didn't they teach you anythi9ng at school?
Mark
On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:30:43 +0100, JNugent <jnugent@mail.com> wrote:
On 19/10/2023 02:30 pm, Adam Funk wrote:
Sono Pazzi Questi Romani
Romani Ite Domus.
Romani ite domum.
Didn't they teach you anythi9ng at school?
Mark
"notya...@gmail.com" <notya...@gmail.com> wrote in message news:86fc2e72-34d3-4438...@googlegroups.com...
England / GB has the longest period without extraconstitutional change since 1688 and without violence since 1651.So how exactly would you describe the Battle of Culloden of 1746 ?
A nice day's picnic in the heather ?
To say nothing of the subsequent ethnic cleansing; sheep and stags
for peasants.
OTOH in the last 250 years has had a revolution, a convention, a reign of terror, a directory, a consulate, two empires, two restorations, five
total or partial foreign occupations, and five republics.
Not as au fait with Italy's history, but it was not even united until1861. The same year Garibaldi Biscuits were first put on sale by Peak
about 1870,
Frean * of Bermondsey London. Whereas they only introduced the Bourbon Biscuit in 1910. Make of that what you may.
bb
* As used to be visible from the train.
"Roger Hayter" <ro...@hayter.org> wrote in message news:kpdng7...@mid.individual.net...
On 19 Oct 2023 at 19:53:05 BST, ""billy bookcase"" <bi...@anon.com> wrote:
What *is* interesting is that the granting of limited Independence to the
26 County Irish Free State in 1922, although still nominally a member of
the British Empire until 1937 is often cited as the start of the break-up
of the British Empire; rather the break-up of the United Kingdom, as
was.
A tacit admission as it were, that Ireland had always been regarded as a colony rather than an integral part of the UK. The first to join and the first to leave. Well most of it anyway.
bb
On 19/10/2023 23:32, Colin Bignell wrote:SNIP
Only if you wrongly equate income with profit. Profit is relevant to how much tax a business has to pay, but individuals are taxed on their
annual income, which is why it is called income tax.
OK. So lets say you buy a car brand new at dealer price. You have
already paid VAT via the dealer.
You then sell the car on 2 years later and you sell it for more than £1000.
Are you saying that HMRC can now tax you on the excess above £1000 at
20% or 40% as its "income"?
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