https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 02/05/2023 17:09, Tikli Chestikov wrote:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

People can still get a whole life sentence, which differs from a life
sentence in that, while somebody who has been given a life sentence can
be released on licence, somebody given a whole life sentence cannot be
paroled.

--
Colin Bignell

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 18:33:03 UTC+1, Tikli Chestikov wrote:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

Not for murder - still life (by law).

Harry Roberts served 48 years for shooting three policemen.

Ian Brady did 51 years.

John Straffen served 55 years dying in prison in 2007.
also Harry Mone - still in prison.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 2023-05-02, Tikli Chestikov <tikli.chestikov@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even
know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

They can be in jail for longer than that. As I'm sure we all know,
a "life sentence" doesn't mean "in prison for life", but there is
a thing called a "whole life order" which does mean that - so the
only maximum limit on the length of time served is how long the
prisoner manages to survive. It used to be imposed at the discretion
of the Home Secretary but then the ECHR decided that wasn't on and
now it's judges who decide.

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

According to the below article, Home Secretaries issued an average
of 1.2 whole life orders a year between 1983 and 2002, and since
then judges have issued an average of 3.2 whole life orders a year.
So on that specific basis: no, they've got harsher not more lenient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole_life_orders

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 02/05/2023 18:53, Colin Bignell wrote:

On 02/05/2023 17:09, Tikli Chestikov wrote:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even
know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

People can still get a whole life sentence, which differs from a life sentence in that, while somebody who has been given a life sentence can
be released on licence, somebody given a whole life sentence cannot be paroled.

With a life sentence there is a tariff set by the judge, which is
basically how long they must server before even being considered for
parole, but even after that period if the parole board considers that
they are a still a danger, or have committed other offences in prison,
they will be denied parole and in extreme case the life sentence could
mean just that, even without a whole life order.

Jeff

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 03/05/2023 09:17, Jeff wrote:

On 02/05/2023 18:53, Colin Bignell wrote:

On 02/05/2023 17:09, Tikli Chestikov wrote:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even
know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

People can still get a whole life sentence, which differs from a life
sentence in that, while somebody who has been given a life sentence
can be released on licence, somebody given a whole life sentence
cannot be paroled.

With a life sentence there is a tariff set by the judge, which is
basically how long they must server before even being considered for
parole, but even after that period if the parole board considers that
they are a still a danger, or have committed other offences in prison,
they will be denied parole and in extreme case the life sentence could
mean just that, even without a whole life order.

Technically it is a sentence for life, even if not all of it is served
in prison. They are only released on licence, which lasts the rest of
their lives, so they can be sent back at any time if they commit another
crime.

--
Colin Bignell

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 19:06:19 UTC+1, Jon Ribbens wrote:

On 2023-05-02, Tikli Chestikov <tikli.c...@gmail.com> wrote:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even
know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

They can be in jail for longer than that. As I'm sure we all know,
a "life sentence" doesn't mean "in prison for life", but there is
a thing called a "whole life order" which does mean that - so the
only maximum limit on the length of time served is how long the
prisoner manages to survive. It used to be imposed at the discretion
of the Home Secretary but then the ECHR decided that wasn't on and
now it's judges who decide.

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

According to the below article, Home Secretaries issued an average
of 1.2 whole life orders a year between 1983 and 2002, and since
then judges have issued an average of 3.2 whole life orders a year.
So on that specific basis: no, they've got harsher not more lenient.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_prisoners_with_whole_life_orders

Sentencing generally has got harsher, particularly in relation to sex offences. It's a myth that sentences are getting more lenient.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 18:33:03 UTC+1, Tikli Chestikov wrote:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

As said elsewhere in this thread, no they haven't, quite the opposite in fact. However, with regard to life sentences, if the parole board isn't satisfied that a prisoner is safe to release, or the prisoner doesn't apply for parole, then the prisoner
will stay in prison, irrespective of the tariff.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

737 cases in all.

In the first, Robert Brown took a hammer and bludgeoned his
estranged wife Joanna Simpson repeatedly, inflicting fractures
and double fractures on her eyes and cheeks, her nose and skull.
Having wrapped her body in plastic sheeting and loaded it into
the back of his Volvo, and after removing the CCTV cameras at the
house he drove to Windsor Great Park.Here he'd had already dug a
deep grave to the precise dimensions of the large garden box into
which he dumped her body.
Charged with murder Brown was in fact found guilty of manslaughter
on the grounds of diminished responsibility. Claiming his divorce,
combined with other factors, including his new partner's miscarriage,
caused him to suffer an "adjustment disorder" - " an emotional
disturbance that interfered with normal functioning. " Accompanied
by tears in the witness box
Throughout all this time, Brown was working as an airline pilot for
BA apparently making harassing phone calls to his wife from around
the world.

Brown was sentenced to 26 years But since this was for manslaughter,
not murder, that sentence is "determinate", rather than the minimum term
that might accompany a life sentence. Meaning that if he commits
no further crimes, he can be automatically released halfway through
with no risk assessment.

Meanwhile the prosecuting barrister has since been appointed as a judge.

All summarised and plagiarized from

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/may/03/the-killing-of-joanna-simpson-she-was-bludgeoned-and-buried-by-her-husband-why-is-he-being-set-free


While of other 736, all wrongly convicted of fraud by the Post Office as evidenced by the jaw-dropping revelations emerging daily from the current Enquiry but sadly now, well past most peoples boredom threshold, the
situation is maybe best summed up by the always excellent Marina Hyde

quote:

I can't help suspecting that former Post Office chief executive Paula
Vennells might have been more publicly vilified if she'd done a bad tweet, rather than merely presided over a firm during the most widespread
miscarriage
of justice in British history.

Put as sparsely as possible, 736 subpostmasters and postmistresses were prosecuted for theft, fraud and false accounting in their branches, between 2000 and 2014.

As things stand, more than a year into the belated inquiry, not a single
person has been held to legal account, from Vennells to the managerial class
of the Post Office to Fujitsu to the civil servants responsible for
oversight. Instead, Vennells got a CBE

unquote

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/02/post-office-horizon-scandal-inquiry



bb

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 19:01:24 UTC+1, notya...@gmail.com wrote:

On Tuesday, 2 May 2023 at 18:33:03 UTC+1, Tikli Chestikov wrote:

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/devils-disciple-serial-killer-patrick-8402859

Apparently this guy has been in prison for 47 years - I didn't even know people could be in jail for that long in this country?

Have jail sentences got more lenient since 1976?

Not for murder - still life (by law).

Harry Roberts served 48 years for shooting three policemen.

Ian Brady did 51 years.

John Straffen served 55 years dying in prison in 2007.
also Harry Mone - still in prison.

You don't even need have to have murdered anyone, just have a succession of other serious crimes (and not much sign of good behaviour while inside). Charles Bronson has spent most of the past 48 years in prison.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 03/05/2023 17:29, billy bookcase wrote:

While of other 736, all wrongly convicted of fraud by the Post Office as evidenced by the jaw-dropping revelations emerging daily from the current Enquiry but sadly now, well past most peoples boredom threshold, the situation is maybe best summed up by the always excellent Marina Hyde

quote:

I can't help suspecting that former Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells might have been more publicly vilified if she'd done a bad tweet, rather than merely presided over a firm during the most widespread miscarriage
of justice in British history.

Put as sparsely as possible, 736 subpostmasters and postmistresses were prosecuted for theft, fraud and false accounting in their branches, between 2000 and 2014.

As things stand, more than a year into the belated inquiry, not a single person has been held to legal account, from Vennells to the managerial class of the Post Office to Fujitsu to the civil servants responsible for oversight. Instead, Vennells got a CBE

unquote

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/02/post-office-horizon-scandal-inquiry

Why can't the software company be held responsible? Why is it always the
poor taxpayer who has to pick up the tab? They tested the software while
it was still being developed.

--
Max Demian

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

"Max Demian" <max_demian@bigfoot.com> wrote in message news:u3012p$1pn7k$1@dont-email.me...

On 03/05/2023 17:29, billy bookcase wrote:

While of other 736, all wrongly convicted of fraud by the Post Office as
evidenced by the jaw-dropping revelations emerging daily from the current
Enquiry but sadly now, well past most peoples boredom threshold, the
situation is maybe best summed up by the always excellent Marina Hyde

quote:

I can't help suspecting that former Post Office chief executive Paula
Vennells might have been more publicly vilified if she'd done a bad
tweet,
rather than merely presided over a firm during the most widespread
miscarriage
of justice in British history.

Put as sparsely as possible, 736 subpostmasters and postmistresses were
prosecuted for theft, fraud and false accounting in their branches,
between
2000 and 2014.

As things stand, more than a year into the belated inquiry, not a single
person has been held to legal account, from Vennells to the managerial
class
of the Post Office to Fujitsu to the civil servants responsible for
oversight. Instead, Vennells got a CBE

unquote

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/02/post-office-horizon-scandal-inquiry

Why can't the software company be held responsible? Why is it always the
poor taxpayer who has to pick up the tab? They tested the software while
it was still being developed.

Basically anyone who deliberately witheld or ignored information which
should have
prevented the prosecutions in the first place, could be charged with
Perverting the
Course of Justice

It all really boils down to who told who what, and when. And whether either party can
either prove it, or credibly deny it,


bb






bb

--
Max Demian

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