On 20/04/2023 11:22, Jethro_uk wrote:

On Thu, 20 Apr 2023 10:59:17 +0100, Simon Parker wrote:

On 20/04/2023 09:32, Colin Bignell wrote:

[quoted text muted]

[quoted text muted]

The bottom line, which I know will be unpalatable to some, but that does
not affect the truth or accuracy of the matter, is that juries seem
reluctant to convict for certain crimes, regardless of the evidence.

Conscience ?

I invite you to read "Legislating the Criminal Code, INVOLUNTARY
MANSLAUGHTER, Item 11 of the Sixth Programme of Law Reform:
Criminal Law" [1] [2] by The Law Commission if you genuinely want an
answer to your question.

If you don't want to read the whole thing, search for "motor" and you'll
find the relevant sections easy enough.

Regards

S.P.

[1] Yes, I know. Hardly the punchiest title. The 'short' title is: "Legislating the Criminal Code: Involuntary Manslaughter", if you think
that's punchier?

[2] https://lawcom.gov.uk/app/uploads/2015/03/lc237_Legislating_the_Criminal_Code_Involuntary_Manslaughter.pdf

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On 2023-04-22, Mark Goodge wrote:

On Fri, 21 Apr 2023 14:50:31 +0100, JNugent <jenningsandco@mail.com> wrote:

On 21/04/2023 02:22 pm, JNugent wrote:

Clearly, these cases were needles buried within a haystack and you'd
never have found them.

<https://www.theargus.co.uk/news/9007780.cyclist-admits-manslaughter-of-hove-grocer/>

<https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58009784>

Don't forget the recent Stoke Newington case as well. And there's always >>the Alliston homicide. And they all exist.

None of those are examples of "a cyclist killing someone and not being caught", to use the wording of the original question, since, as the reports make clear, they were all caught.

I still don't believe there are any examples of a cyclist kiling someone and not being caught. At least, not examples of a cyclist killing someone by cycling into them in a hit and run incident. There probably are examples of gangland killings carried out by armed cyclists who got away with it, but they're not really relevant here.

Are drive-by shootings counted as traffic-related deaths?

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On 2023-04-20, Roger Hayter wrote:

On 20 Apr 2023 at 11:42:18 BST, "kat" <littlelionne@hotmail.com> wrote:

On 20/04/2023 10:59, Simon Parker wrote:

On 20/04/2023 09:32, Colin Bignell wrote:

On 20/04/2023 00:22, JNugent wrote:

On 19/04/2023 08:18 pm, Colin Bignell wrote:

From the news report, rather than the text written by the OP:

QUOTE:
Stewart McGinn, 30, smashed into retired teacher Jane Stone, 79, after >>>>>> mounting the pavement while hurtling around a corner in Monmouth, South >>>>>> Wales, on June 7, 2021
ENDQUOTE

That is a chronology. It does not differ from or devalue the news report. >>>>>
Why are you defending him?

I am not defending anybody. I am answering the question asked in the subject
line. The fact that he was not intentionally endangering pedestrians by >>>> cycling along the pavement would make it more difficult (although not
impossible) to make out a case for manslaughter.

The bottom line, which I know will be unpalatable to some, but that does not
affect the truth or accuracy of the matter, is that juries seem reluctant to
convict for certain crimes, regardless of the evidence. The introduction of the
crime of Causing Death by Dangerous Driving and then the later addition of >>> Causing Death by Careless Driving attempted to counter this (for want of a >>> better phrase) "jury reluctance" for incidents involving motor vehicles. >>>
However, there is no corresponding legislation for cyclists and manslaughter
cases that have been tried against cyclists seem to indicate a similar
reluctance from juries to convict cyclists for manslaughter.

But not reluctant to convict pedestrians for some reason. Maybe most people >> on
juries drive or cycle more than they walk.

I don't think one case proves anything whatever about the propensities of juries in general. Actually, do very many pedestrians get charged with such offences against cyclists?

Like crimes committed by cyclists against pedestrians --- and unlike
KSIs caused by drivers --- they are rare enough for individual cases
to make the national news.

Do you have any evidence whatever of a habitual
reluctance of juries to convict pedestrians of violent crimes? In fact, violent crimes are most commonly committed by pedestrians, for obvious reasons. But usually against other pedestrians.

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